Jimmer to Cavs for pick?

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#2
Note: It appears all the subsequent tweets are, so far, tracking back to the NBA Insider STN tweet above.
 

Krunker

Northernmost Kings Fan
#3
I guess this would not be too surprising since we were supposedly talking to Cleveland during the Monta sweepstakes. If true, I am real interested in what the conditions are... hopefully at least around his 10th pick value.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#4
I guess this would not be too surprising since we were supposedly talking to Cleveland during the Monta sweepstakes. If true, I am real interested in what the conditions are... hopefully at least around his 10th pick value.
I think it WILL be a top 10 pick!

In the 2nd round.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#11
Supposing, for argument's sake, that talks are still ongoing, and/or has any legs to it, how does this alleged Fredette for pick trade impact the conditional pick we already owe Cleveland?
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#12
Supposing, for argument's sake, that talks are still ongoing, and/or has any legs to it, how does this alleged Fredette for pick trade impact the conditional pick we already owe Cleveland?
Well, theoretically you could both have each others picks conditionally. they could have our pick lottery protected, we could have theirs. but you would think more likely its a) a 2nd round pick in one year or the other, or b) we're trying to renegotiate the terms of that condition.

For better or worse I have gotten some feeling of this new group consciously trying to remove what it sees as impediments left over from the last regime. In this case maybe better. Just hard to see Cleveland, or anyone, wanting Jimmer so bad they significantly alter their rights to our pick.
 
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#13
Well, theoretically you could both have each others picks conditionally. they could have our pick lottery protected, we could have theirs. but you would think more likely its a) a 2nd round pick in one year or the other, or b) we're trying to renegotiate the terms of that condition.

For better or worse I have gotten some feeling of this new group consciously trying to remove what it sees as impediments left over from the last regime. In this case maybe better. Just hard to see Cleveland, or anyone, wanting Ji9mmer so bad they significantly later their rights to our pick.
Cleveland wants to win now. They need shooters.

Hopefully the kings can trade jimmer and that would satisfy the hickson 1st round pick. Heck, we could also throw in a protected future 2nd round pick, so we can get our 1st round pick back.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#14
Cleveland wants to win now. They need shooters.

Hopefully the kings can trade jimmer and that would satisfy the hickson 1st round pick. Heck, we could also throw in a protected future 2nd round pick, so we can get our 1st round pick back.
They need shooters in the rotation maybe. 3rd string PGs (Irving, Jack) maybe not such a hot commodity. But hey, if we can sell them on it...
 
#17
While Jimmer holds 0 value to me, a 2nd round pick is comparable to nothing as well. Might as well just keep him. 1st round pick/letting us keep ours? I'd send him on the first plane.
 
#18
While Jimmer holds 0 value to me, a 2nd round pick is comparable to nothing as well. Might as well just keep him. 1st round pick/letting us keep ours? I'd send him on the first plane.
Agreed. He's already demonstrated more value than most 2nd rounders and that was with poor coaching/roles.

It would free up a roster spot and potentially a little more money but I'm not trusting our FO right now
 
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#19
While Jimmer holds 0 value to me, a 2nd round pick is comparable to nothing as well. Might as well just keep him. 1st round pick/letting us keep ours? I'd send him on the first plane.
If you think both Fredette and a second round pick have zero value then it makes sense to take the 2nd round pick not hold onto Fredette as you suggest. It would be a cheaper contract and the 2nd round pick would probably be a player at a position of need. (well hopefully!)
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#21
If you think both Fredette and a second round pick have zero value then it makes sense to take the 2nd round pick not hold onto Fredette as you suggest. It would be a cheaper contract and the 2nd round pick would probably be a player at a position of need. (well hopefully!)
Not to mention a moveable asset we will actually retain control off past the end of this season.

Unless you seriously see a way for Jimmer to get significant minutes behind Vasquez/IT at PG and Thronton/McLemore at SG, he's a spare part, and you would be well advised to get what you can for your asset and have soemthign for the future.
 
#22
With all due respect to Npliam, I don't even know if at this point Jimmer can be traded to Utah for significant value.
I don't think that Jazz are that interested. I still think Jimmer can play. I do find it interesting that everyone is willing to give Tyreke, Thornton and Cousins a pass on any deficiencies in their game due to coaching (or lack of) but they are totally sure that there is nor way Jimmer can be a contributor.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#23
I don't think that Jazz are that interested. I still think Jimmer can play. I do find it interesting that everyone is willing to give Tyreke, Thornton and Cousins a pass on any deficiencies in their game due to coaching (or lack of) but they are totally sure that there is nor way Jimmer can be a contributor.
You can't coach what Jimmer lacks. In fact his coachable skills are his strength.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#24
What someone is worth, is what someone is willing to pay. Market value is always the deciding factor. If you think Jimmer is more valuable because you see potential there, then you don't trade him and instead you try to develop him in order to increase his value. The other side of the coin of course, is that he's taking up a roster spot, and perhaps that spot could be better utilized. At the moment, I don't think that last argument flies. We already have a roster spot open, and I don't see a big line of players ready to fill it.

Personally I think Jimmer is worth more than a second round pick. Maybe if it was the first pick in next years second round, I might consider it. But probably not. I think home town fans are much harder on their own players than other teams players, and as a result they tend to undervalue their players. Unless someone offers a no brainer deal for Jimmer, then I'd wait till the trading deadline to make any decision. Hell, send him down to the D-League where he can get some minutes, and maybe make an impression on the powers that be. I still think that Jimmers position has to be PG. If you can shoot, and create for others, lack of athleticism can be tolerated. I give you Steve Nash! But at SG, where your undersized, and not athletic, your in trouble.

I'd like to see what improvements Jimmer has made to his game this offseason before just dumping him. Lets see what he can do with a good coach, and an actual system in place along with logical rotations. Now if Cleveland wants to offer us the first pick in the next draft, then forget everything I just said.
 
#25
What someone is worth, is what someone is willing to pay. Market value is always the deciding factor. If you think Jimmer is more valuable because you see potential there, then you don't trade him and instead you try to develop him in order to increase his value. The other side of the coin of course, is that he's taking up a roster spot, and perhaps that spot could be better utilized. At the moment, I don't think that last argument flies. We already have a roster spot open, and I don't see a big line of players ready to fill it.

Personally I think Jimmer is worth more than a second round pick. Maybe if it was the first pick in next years second round, I might consider it. But probably not. I think home town fans are much harder on their own players than other teams players, and as a result they tend to undervalue their players. Unless someone offers a no brainer deal for Jimmer, then I'd wait till the trading deadline to make any decision. Hell, send him down to the D-League where he can get some minutes, and maybe make an impression on the powers that be. I still think that Jimmers position has to be PG. If you can shoot, and create for others, lack of athleticism can be tolerated. I give you Steve Nash! But at SG, where your undersized, and not athletic, your in trouble.

I'd like to see what improvements Jimmer has made to his game this offseason before just dumping him. Lets see what he can do with a good coach, and an actual system in place along with logical rotations. Now if Cleveland wants to offer us the first pick in the next draft, then forget everything I just said.

Agreed and I'm not really a fan of his game. At the least, he's probably the most marketable 12th man in the league and by all accounts a good guy and hard worker.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#28
I still think that Jimmers position has to be PG. If you can shoot, and create for others, lack of athleticism can be tolerated. I give you Steve Nash! But at SG, where your undersized, and not athletic, your in trouble.
Jimmer is not an NBA level PG. Show me a single successful PG who at age 24 still struggled to even set up an offense because he can't handle defensive pressure crossing half court.

A common theme among NBA level PG's is the ball is an extension of their body. Their handle is so good they can get anywhere they want on the floor despite pressure. Jimmer's handle is nowhere near good enough to be a legit NBA PG and get to the spots he needs to. What some don't seem to understand is a great handle helps negate average to below average athleticism. A guy like Nash is an example of that. Phenomenal handle, great balance/body control and shiftiness. That covers up his lack of athleticism and allows him to get where he needs to get to. But having a below average handle along with poor athleticism just highlights having a poor handle even more. Jimmer has an inability to create separation unless off a pump fake with a live dribble, which is more an attribute of a SG/SF than a PG. A PG needs to be able to create separation off the dribble, after brushing off pressure. Jimmer currently can't. And a handle isn't something you can improve much at 24.

With all the poor NBA standard PG's we've seen trot through Sac, from Price to Sergio to Jeter, not a single one of them ever struggled with ball pressure crossing half court or setting up the offense. They could get to the spots they needed to run an offense, their talent level just limited them at this level. Jimmer however struggles with pressure more than any PG we've had on our roster over the last 15+ years. Guys who've long been overseas have a better handle than he has. Constantly bringing up Nash when attempting to defend Jimmer is quite an insult to Nash.

I was wrong about Jimmer. I thought he'd be more cut out for this level. Any hope he has at this level is in a Reddick type role as that at least suits his strengths. Trying to force him into a PG role which plays to his weaknesses and negates his strengths, the strengths that just might give him hope of an NBA career makes no sense. I think a few others need to start accepting Jimmer isn't what we thought he might be. It's not a question of a player getting smarter as he ages and it suddenly clicking at 24, 25 or 26. No, Jimmer doesn't even have the tools to click as an NBA PG.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#29
I'd like to see what improvements Jimmer has made to his game this offseason before just dumping him. Lets see what he can do with a good coach, and an actual system in place along with logical rotations.

He can't do anything as the 5th guard, which makes improvement kind of worthless to us even if he makes it. He improves in 8min a night of mop duty, then leaves/is let go at the end of the year anyway. So might as well get an asset we can use going forward instead.

Good college player. Didn't translate. Steve Alford is beckoning from the old tweener guards' home.
 
#30
He can't do anything as the 5th guard, which makes improvement kind of worthless to us even if he makes it. He improves in 8min a night of mop duty, then leaves/is let go at the end of the year anyway. So might as well get an asset we can use going forward instead.

Good college player. Didn't translate. Steve Alford is beckoning from the old tweener guards' home.
Agree. I would hate to see Jimmer take minutes away from anyone, McCalllum in particular. Also, it's best for Jimmer also. If he has an NBA future it is somewhere other than the KIngs. So move him now if at all possible.