Cousins Working His Butt Off (New poll)
- Thread starter rainmaker
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Totally different scenario. If you recall, Carmichael Dave had strongly maintained all along that the Kings would not match an offer for Evans. This isn't about an offer. This is about a team owner showing up at the TEAM USA mini-camp to show support for and talk to his franchise cornerstone. It is significant for that, if for nothing else.
Yes that's very interesting...since its exactly the argument I've been making for a while. Or one of them. 
In any case, Boogie's offensive game charts out like a giant very post oriented PF, and he absolutely annihilates smaller guys when they try to guard him. Just runs them over. Would love love love to see that.
In any case, Boogie's offensive game charts out like a giant very post oriented PF, and he absolutely annihilates smaller guys when they try to guard him. Just runs them over. Would love love love to see that.
Would be great, but who can we trade for one of these guys outside of Cousins? I still dont see much of a chance to aquire one of the starting caliber shotblockers via trade, cause we can only offer some bad contracts like Hayes or some mediocre or unproven players like Jimmer, Patterson or Thompson. If you hope to sign one of this guys during FA at a later time, it will be difficult to beat the other suitors. Both guys will cause a lot of interest, when they enter FA.
Maybe we should give Malcolm Thomas a closer look, since the Bulls refused to sign him and he was decent during the Summer League. A very athletic PF, who has good size at 6'9 too.
Maybe we should give Malcolm Thomas a closer look, since the Bulls refused to sign him and he was decent during the Summer League. A very athletic PF, who has good size at 6'9 too.
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YES! And if the new hierarchy genuinely ask DMC for his input and take it on board, we should be getting one pretty soon. The tricky part of course would be finding one that is able to defend both PF and C positions so that DMC can take the "lesser" player. Dally worked well with DMC because Dally could guard the likes of Dirk, Aldridge, West, potent Amaré etc while Cousins picked up the other guy!
I have long maintained that guys like Dally, Noah, Ibaka, Favours and Sanders would be indeal next to DMC! That would be the definition of terrorizing opposition!
I have long maintained that guys like Dally, Noah, Ibaka, Favours and Sanders would be indeal next to DMC! That would be the definition of terrorizing opposition!
K
Not really sure if it makes much difference if Cousins plays C/PF cause most the time the other teams best defender of the two big's will go to him regardless and pairing him with a shot blocking center will work on defense but on offense that "shot blocking C" will most likely not be a offensive threat that much so they can just put a smaller player on him anyway.
I think people are getting to caught up in the position thing end of the day other teams will mix n match and really Cousins is going to be guarded by pretty much everyone that guarded him so far. E.g say we play OKC with Ibaka and Perkins and we have (lets assume we get Oden) ok so we pair the two up OKC will simple put Perkins on Cousins and since Oden is not much of a threat one on one let Ibaka sag off him, same thing against Clippers (DJ will guard Cousins)/Grizzlies, I mean the Lakers last year had Pau guarding Cousins instead of Dwight most the time.
So no Cousins will not have a massive size advantage playing PF cause teams will adjust to it and put the big that they think can play the best against him which 99% will not be the smaller player of the two. To me that pairing works on only one end of the floor unless that "C" is a elite offensive rebounder who can use his size against a smaller PF. I still say we give it a shot with Patterson @PF since he's a high IQ guy who can make high low passes and space the floor. I rather have someone who has excellent understanding of the game out there with Cousins.
I think people are getting to caught up in the position thing end of the day other teams will mix n match and really Cousins is going to be guarded by pretty much everyone that guarded him so far. E.g say we play OKC with Ibaka and Perkins and we have (lets assume we get Oden) ok so we pair the two up OKC will simple put Perkins on Cousins and since Oden is not much of a threat one on one let Ibaka sag off him, same thing against Clippers (DJ will guard Cousins)/Grizzlies, I mean the Lakers last year had Pau guarding Cousins instead of Dwight most the time.
So no Cousins will not have a massive size advantage playing PF cause teams will adjust to it and put the big that they think can play the best against him which 99% will not be the smaller player of the two. To me that pairing works on only one end of the floor unless that "C" is a elite offensive rebounder who can use his size against a smaller PF. I still say we give it a shot with Patterson @PF since he's a high IQ guy who can make high low passes and space the floor. I rather have someone who has excellent understanding of the game out there with Cousins.
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well, the thing is, Cuz will always have the advantage on offense, just because of who he is. optimally, offensively, the guy we stick next to him is someone physical and athletic, who can catch the ball when Cuz passes out of double teams, and finish. if he can shoot the ball, too, that's a plus, but not requisite, since we should get our spacing from elsewhere. another lowpost presence would clog things up, too (hence my hesitation with the Landry fit offensively).
the other thing is, why would we need to care about offense? this team has been an above average offensive outfit last year. that was with the great tinkerer at the helm that has never heard of a team with defined roles and seemed somewhat lost instilling any kind of real offense. defensively, we've been the poops for just about as long as I can remember. 29th best out of 30 last year and while I'm real optimistic about Malone, he does need more talent defensively.
as it so happens, the majority of good to great helpside defenders are playing the centre spot and those are the kinds of players that have the most impact on the performance of your defense. now, if Cuz is willing to move to the PF, saying that he feels more comfortable there and that he thinks he (and the team) would be better off if he were paired with an impact shotblocker/helpside defender, then I do hope oh so very much that the team takes notice and that, if nobody fitting that description is available for what the Kings could offer, there will at least be some kind of statement by Malone or PDA that, yes, they are indeed looking for that kind of player. really, that's all I'm asking.
the other thing is, why would we need to care about offense? this team has been an above average offensive outfit last year. that was with the great tinkerer at the helm that has never heard of a team with defined roles and seemed somewhat lost instilling any kind of real offense. defensively, we've been the poops for just about as long as I can remember. 29th best out of 30 last year and while I'm real optimistic about Malone, he does need more talent defensively.
as it so happens, the majority of good to great helpside defenders are playing the centre spot and those are the kinds of players that have the most impact on the performance of your defense. now, if Cuz is willing to move to the PF, saying that he feels more comfortable there and that he thinks he (and the team) would be better off if he were paired with an impact shotblocker/helpside defender, then I do hope oh so very much that the team takes notice and that, if nobody fitting that description is available for what the Kings could offer, there will at least be some kind of statement by Malone or PDA that, yes, they are indeed looking for that kind of player. really, that's all I'm asking.
I wonder why you think it is a problem to play Landry alongside Cousins, who can hit jumpshots from midrange and finish underneath the basket, but it is ok to play a big, that is limited to catching passes and finish at the basket.
I understand, that you are concerned about the defense, if Landry is paired with Cousins, but in my opinion a defensive impact player, that is limited offensively, will make things very difficult for Cousins on offense. On top of that we lost Evans, who was our second player able to create his own shot. If Cousins is taken out of the game by double teams as soon as he gets to the basket, our offense will rely solely on Vasquez creating off the P&R.
Very risky approach..
I would prefer a big man, who can block shots and understands how to play helpside defense and can hit jumpshots occasionally. Players like Mark and Pau Gasol, Gibson, Ibaka, Noah or even Spencer Hawes
I understand, that you are concerned about the defense, if Landry is paired with Cousins, but in my opinion a defensive impact player, that is limited offensively, will make things very difficult for Cousins on offense. On top of that we lost Evans, who was our second player able to create his own shot. If Cousins is taken out of the game by double teams as soon as he gets to the basket, our offense will rely solely on Vasquez creating off the P&R.
Very risky approach..
I would prefer a big man, who can block shots and understands how to play helpside defense and can hit jumpshots occasionally. Players like Mark and Pau Gasol, Gibson, Ibaka, Noah or even Spencer Hawes
well, I'm weary of the Cuz/Landry pairing because it didn't work before and because Landry actually needs the ball in his hands to justify his presence on the court. guys like Gibson, Sanders, Asik or Bogut do not (although Bogut can do things with the ball as well).
also, again, our offense will be fine. yeah, we lost Evans, but as wrong as I think that decision was, his replacement is a pretty good scorer in his own right and the new coach will, hopefully, set a working system in place. last year's roster, in the hands of a competent coach, would've easily been a top10 offense, maybe even top5. we'll be fine on that end.
lastly, I'm not quite sure about your position. all those guys you have listed at the end, excepting Pau for over-the-hillness and Hawes for his absolute loathsomeness, fit precisely the mold of player I'm looking for. this appears to be a nuance thing, as I'd have no problem playing guys like Asik or Chandler next to Cuz, whereas those guys seem to not quite fit your description. am I wrong about that?
also, again, our offense will be fine. yeah, we lost Evans, but as wrong as I think that decision was, his replacement is a pretty good scorer in his own right and the new coach will, hopefully, set a working system in place. last year's roster, in the hands of a competent coach, would've easily been a top10 offense, maybe even top5. we'll be fine on that end.
lastly, I'm not quite sure about your position. all those guys you have listed at the end, excepting Pau for over-the-hillness and Hawes for his absolute loathsomeness, fit precisely the mold of player I'm looking for. this appears to be a nuance thing, as I'd have no problem playing guys like Asik or Chandler next to Cuz, whereas those guys seem to not quite fit your description. am I wrong about that?
Yes it is a nuance thing, outside of my assumption, that the Kings will not get a player like this via a trade.
I dont like Asik or Chandler next to Cousins, cause those guys are basically limited to defense and rebounds, while the guys i mentioned can do other things too. The Gasols are arguably the most versatile bigs in the league, cause they can pass, shoot, rebound, post and defend. Ibaka can hit jumpers even from the 3pt-line and Gibson, Hawes are very solid mid-range-shooters, giving Cousins room to operate.
If you ask me, which frontcourt would be dreamlike for me, it would be Mark Gasol+Demarcus Cousins. Would be the most versatile frontcourt of the league, but maybe a bit soo slow to handle quick PF's, but i admire the game of these guys.
I dont like Asik or Chandler next to Cousins, cause those guys are basically limited to defense and rebounds, while the guys i mentioned can do other things too. The Gasols are arguably the most versatile bigs in the league, cause they can pass, shoot, rebound, post and defend. Ibaka can hit jumpers even from the 3pt-line and Gibson, Hawes are very solid mid-range-shooters, giving Cousins room to operate.
If you ask me, which frontcourt would be dreamlike for me, it would be Mark Gasol+Demarcus Cousins. Would be the most versatile frontcourt of the league, but maybe a bit soo slow to handle quick PF's, but i admire the game of these guys.
well, Chandler is one of the best inside finishers of the league, a bonafide target for lobs and any pick-and-roll action, as well as having improved his free throw shooting to the degree that you can't just foul him, either. add to that the fact that he's more capable than most anybody else at staying out of the way on offense, which is another big plus. if he were able to hit spot up shots from the midrange, then he'd be perfect. anybody requiring too many touches in the frontcourt, especially in the low post would signify that either him or Cuz couldn't absolutely play to their strengths, a scenario that doesn't do much for me.
that's all offense, though, and again: I don't care about the offense. I really, really don't and see no reason why I should at this point, either. if a helpside presence is enough of a detriment to the Kings' offense to drag it down a notch or two to where it only is average, but at the same time helps improve the defense to a point where it isn't an unmitigated disaster anymore, I'll be very happy.
that's all offense, though, and again: I don't care about the offense. I really, really don't and see no reason why I should at this point, either. if a helpside presence is enough of a detriment to the Kings' offense to drag it down a notch or two to where it only is average, but at the same time helps improve the defense to a point where it isn't an unmitigated disaster anymore, I'll be very happy.
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Um...YES.
Kings fans are conditioned to only see one side of the floor, but defense is EVERYTHING for this team right now. We were basically dead last in the entire league last year. I would go so far a to say if we were a good defensive team that we could have threatened .500 last year.
And the guy you stick in the frontcourt next to a great center should ALWAYS be a defensive choice. In the last decade we've seen several teams fail to recognize that (Dwight and Yao) and its failed. It also failed when David Robinson (a defensive legend) was paired with Terry Cummings for a few years (Cummings being a very rich man's Landry). Now along comes DeMarcus Cousins, who is not and never will be a defensive legend. His frontcourt partner MUST bring the defense, because Cousins can't, not at a high enough level to win. In the Marc Gaosl and Randolph pairing, Cousins is Randolph. He is Boozer in Boozer/Noah. He is West in West/Hibbert (although really West is basically another rich man's Landry). Now I think Cousins has the potential to be considerably better on defense than any of those guys (ZBo, Boozer, West etc.). But he'll never be Gasol/Hibbert/Noah. So that is the guy we need to find.
P.S. Because Cousins can be better, and bigger, than Zbo/West/Boozer though, I think we have a little wiggle room in that we don't necessarily need a max contract DPOY guy there. But we do need a defensive minded shotblocker.
Kings fans are conditioned to only see one side of the floor, but defense is EVERYTHING for this team right now. We were basically dead last in the entire league last year. I would go so far a to say if we were a good defensive team that we could have threatened .500 last year.
And the guy you stick in the frontcourt next to a great center should ALWAYS be a defensive choice. In the last decade we've seen several teams fail to recognize that (Dwight and Yao) and its failed. It also failed when David Robinson (a defensive legend) was paired with Terry Cummings for a few years (Cummings being a very rich man's Landry). Now along comes DeMarcus Cousins, who is not and never will be a defensive legend. His frontcourt partner MUST bring the defense, because Cousins can't, not at a high enough level to win. In the Marc Gaosl and Randolph pairing, Cousins is Randolph. He is Boozer in Boozer/Noah. He is West in West/Hibbert (although really West is basically another rich man's Landry). Now I think Cousins has the potential to be considerably better on defense than any of those guys (ZBo, Boozer, West etc.). But he'll never be Gasol/Hibbert/Noah. So that is the guy we need to find.
P.S. Because Cousins can be better, and bigger, than Zbo/West/Boozer though, I think we have a little wiggle room in that we don't necessarily need a max contract DPOY guy there. But we do need a defensive minded shotblocker.
The only guy in next year's draft who could potentially be that guy for the Kings is Willie Cauley-Stein. Outside of that we're looking at trades or (less likely) free agency. Thornton putting up big numbers for the first half of the season (with McLemore making strides to where he could start) might make him an intriguing enough piece for shooting/scoring deficient Milwaukee to part with Henson. Not a center of course, but a solid defensive front court mate.
Thanks man, but try to read the complete post next time. I mentioned that i can understand the defensive concerns regarding a Cousins/Landry-Duo. At least, if Cousins doesnt improve on the defensive end. We already talked about our expectations in this case and i still highly disagree with you.
I played basketball for 20 years, coached for 10 years and watched the NBA since the 90's. I m not an expert, when it comes to basketball, but I think i m entitled to my own opinion. So there is no need to tell me, I only see one side of the floor. Maybe you shouldnt proceed on the assumption, that other posters have no clue, what they are talking about.
I said, that playing Landry alongside Cousins is possible and i think Landry is an upgrade over Thompson or Patterson, due to his fighting spirit and physicality. Finding a defensive Big Man would be really nice for the Kings, but there is noone available right now. It is as simple as that. The chances to aquire a proven,starting caliber defensive big for the Kings are close to zero.
And you simply dont start guys like Aldrich, Withey or Wright in the NBA, cause they can't compete with prime big's and are way too limited offensively.
I played basketball for 20 years, coached for 10 years and watched the NBA since the 90's. I m not an expert, when it comes to basketball, but I think i m entitled to my own opinion. So there is no need to tell me, I only see one side of the floor. Maybe you shouldnt proceed on the assumption, that other posters have no clue, what they are talking about.
I said, that playing Landry alongside Cousins is possible and i think Landry is an upgrade over Thompson or Patterson, due to his fighting spirit and physicality. Finding a defensive Big Man would be really nice for the Kings, but there is noone available right now. It is as simple as that. The chances to aquire a proven,starting caliber defensive big for the Kings are close to zero.
And you simply dont start guys like Aldrich, Withey or Wright in the NBA, cause they can't compete with prime big's and are way too limited offensively.
I mostly agree with you, but keep in mind, that the Kings offense relied heavily on Thomas and Evans creating out of ISO's/running the floor and Thompson spreading the floor with his solid midrange jumper. Evans is gone and with Vasquez as a PG the Kings offense might get more halfcourt focused. Any competent opposing defense will focus on stopping Cousins underneath the basket and force him to shoot from outside the paint. This might be easier for the opponents, if the Kings play a defensive specialist without a midrange game alongside Cousins.
But as you already mentioned: We are talking about nuances. So if the Kings can net a player like Chandler i wouldnt be unhappy.
But as you already mentioned: We are talking about nuances. So if the Kings can net a player like Chandler i wouldnt be unhappy.
I'd be stunned if both Sanders and Favors aren't untouchable. Considering that the Jazz let both Jefferson and Milsap go, they're not about to trade Favors. The Bucks do happen to be overloaded with bigs, but Sanders had a breakout year, and is the best defensive player they have. There are players out there that can block shots, but too many of them are one trick pony's. In other words, they're good shotblockers, but not particularly good team defenders, and many are liabilities on offense. Its very hard to find a player that can play good man defense, block shots, and still be, at worse, a player that doesn't get in the way of the teams offense. In most cases, these players are homegrown.
Yeah, Sanders isn't going anywhere, but that's why I've been pushing the idea of trading for Henson. He is also a good shotblocker/rebounder though not at Sanders' level. And he and Sanders spent very little time on the court together which leads me to believe that the Bucks don't see them as a good frontcourt pairing. With Ellis gone and no real shooters on the team I think Thornton could be an attractive trade piece for them.