McLemore, what are your expectations?

[hrdboild]

I think he should start right away too. There's no use pretending like Marcus Thornton is going to be a key player for us. There's a certain line of thinking that rookies should be brought along slowly and earn their place. But what do we really have to lose by putting him in the starting lineup and accelerating his learning curve? He's going to make a lot of mistakes, but that's why you have coaches and game tape. And he won't need to be a focal point of the offense this season. Let him ease into a bigger scoring role. I do think Coach Malone should have a fast hook though when it comes to lapses on the defensive end. He should learn from day one that you earn your scoring opportunities by putting in work on the other end. (Who we have to take his place is another matter, though I faintly recall Thornton being a pretty good defender when we first got him -- he only lapsed into the same apathetic attitude as everyone else once our old coaching staff got their hooks into him).

 

[Bricklayer]

I think he should start right away too. There's no use pretending like Marcus Thornton is going to be a key player for us. There's a certain line of thinking that rookies should be brought along slowly and earn their place. But what do we really have to lose by putting him in the starting lineup and accelerating his learning curve? He's going to make a lot of mistakes, but that's why you have coaches and game tape. And he won't need to be a focal point of the offense this season. Let him ease into a bigger scoring role. I do think Coach Malone should have a fast hook though when it comes to lapses on the defensive end. He should learn from day one that you earn your scoring opportunities by putting in work on the other end.

Marcus Thornton can score 20ppg in this league. Its entirely possible he'll still be a more potent scorer than Mac in 5 years. This is like the start TRob idea. If they show something, sure. Although there are consequences we cannot ignore with the Mac/Thornton situation -- starve Thornton of minutes and we are stuck with his contract permanently, and he and Mac can't play together. But if the rookies aren't ready you are betraying the other 11 guys on the team to start them anyway. Cousins wants to win. How do you think a rookie struggling mightily and losing games for us in the early season, dropping us out of the playoff race before Christmas again is going to go over?

 

[hrdboild]

Marcus Thornton can score 20ppg in this league. Its entirely possible he'll still be a more potent scorer than Mac in 5 years. This is like the start TRob idea. If they show something, sure. Although there are consequences we cannot ignore with the Mac/Thornton situation -- starve Thornton of minutes and we are stuck with his contract permanently, and he and Mac can't play together. But if the rookies aren't ready you are betraying the other 11 guys on the team to start them anyway. Cousins wants to win. How do you think a rookie struggling mightily and losing games for us in the early season, dropping us out of the playoff race before Christmas again is going to go over?

Thornton has two years left. We're not handcuffed to his contract for very long. If all McLemore can do right now is come off screens and make shots he's not going to shoot us out of playoff contention by himself any more than Marcus is going to will us there by himself. These guys are both finishers that play off of everyone else, they're not shot creators. It's a lateral move for this season but getting him right into the swing of things and letting him get used to the other starters could have substantial payoff in year 2. Thornton is who he is. Our best shot of winning in the future depends on making sure McLemore maximizes his potential. I'm a little worried about Cousins' countenance as well, but I've done all the complaining I plan to do about trading a just entering his prime Tyreke Evans for Greivis Vasquez. That wasn't my idea and I hate it, but it is what it is. That's the front office plan now. Leaning heavily on Thornton and Landry for more wins to appease Cousins is not going to get us where we need to go.

And I think we probably would have been better off starting Thomas Robinson. I still think he's substantially more talented than either Jason Thompson or Patrick Patterson (or, for that matter, Carl Landry) -- he just hasn't been given a chance to prove it yet. Last season we were a team with no future. The Maloofs were angling to cash out, Petrie was left adrift in the wind with his only real directive to cut costs, Smart was on his own little island of incompetence slowly generating resentment with every player on the team. This was not an environment where any rookie was likely to succeed. Hopefully we're past that. It's a shame we had to give up on Robinson so early because now we have a glaring lack of long-term talent at the PF position, but again what's been done can't be undone. I don't think what happened this year (traded away from a team closing in on a sale of the franchise for expiring contracts, then traded again to make salary cap room for a max contract All-Star center) is any proof of failure on his part.

 

[The_Jamal]

Marcus Thornton can score 20ppg in this league. Its entirely possible he'll still be a more potent scorer than Mac in 5 years. This is like the start TRob idea. If they show something, sure. Although there are consequences we cannot ignore with the Mac/Thornton situation -- starve Thornton of minutes and we are stuck with his contract permanently, and he and Mac can't play together. But if the rookies aren't ready you are betraying the other 11 guys on the team to start them anyway. Cousins wants to win. How do you think a rookie struggling mightily and losing games for us in the early season, dropping us out of the playoff race before Christmas again is going to go over?

I think Cousins understands this process. He's not a complete doofus where he doesn't realize that the new regime will take some time to bring wins. I don't understand why you think Cousins is so anxious to get out of town. Everything points to him being loyal to the team and willing to develop with this new regime.

Those USA camps are pretty telling of his mindset imo. They aren't "Man, we better win or else" type of scenarios. He is excited about the new management, excited about his new teammates, and excited to embrace his leadership role as a franchise player

 

[bajaden]

that seems like a massive understatement to me...



it's hard to imagine the new regime dropping the ball on player development as colossally as the previous regime did. and that's saying something, considering the major players involved in the new regime are all rookies at their current positions...

I think the mere fact that the Kings tried to buy the Reno Bighorns, and at least became the operating manager of the team, shows that they're dedicated to player development.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I think the mere fact that the Kings tried to buy the Reno Bighorns, and at least became the operating manager of the team, shows that they're dedicated to player development.

Indeed. And the NBDL something the previous regime wanted nothing to do with. I actually had the opportunity to ask Petrie at a Q&A once about his intentions regarding the d-league. He essentially pooh-poohed the idea as not worth the time and effort. I was surprised, given that effective use of the d-league has seemingly been something separating the successful small markets (like the Spurs) from the rest.

This change is one of the more heartening developments of the new regime, I think.

 

[bajaden]

Thornton has two years left. We're not handcuffed to his contract for very long. If all McLemore can do right now is come off screens and make shots he's not going to shoot us out of playoff contention by himself any more than Marcus is going to will us there by himself. These guys are both finishers that play off of everyone else, they're not shot creators. It's a lateral move for this season but getting him right into the swing of things and letting him get used to the other starters could have substantial payoff in year 2. Thornton is who he is. Our best shot of winning in the future depends on making sure McLemore maximizes his potential. I'm a little worried about Cousins' countenance as well, but I've done all the complaining I plan to do about trading a just entering his prime Tyreke Evans for Greivis Vasquez. That wasn't my idea and I hate it, but it is what it is. That's the front office plan now. Leaning heavily on Thornton and Landry for more wins to appease Cousins is not going to get us where we need to go.

And I think we probably would have been better off starting Thomas Robinson. I still think he's substantially more talented than either Jason Thompson or Patrick Patterson (or, for that matter, Carl Landry) -- he just hasn't been given a chance to prove it yet. Last season we were a team with no future. The Maloofs were angling to cash out, Petrie was left adrift in the wind with his only real directive to cut costs, Smart was on his own little island of incompetence slowly generating resentment with every player on the team. This was not an environment where any rookie was likely to succeed. Hopefully we're past that. It's a shame we had to give up on Robinson so early because now we have a glaring lack of long-term talent at the PF position, but again what's been done can't be undone. I don't think what happened this year (traded away from a team closing in on a sale of the franchise for expiring contracts, then traded again to make salary cap room for a max contract All-Star center) is any proof of failure on his part.

Far be it for me to know the mind set of the new regime, but I suspect that training camp, and preseason will determine whether McLemore starts or not. I don't think comparing him to Thomas Robinson is fair, even in concept. T. Rob had one above average skill coming out of college, and that was rebounding. He also had the beginning of a decent 15 to 18 foot jumper. But everything else he did was based on athleticism. His BBIQ was certainly lacking, and I don't think it helped him to play behind the Morris twins for two years, giving him few actual minutes on the floor.

McLemore has one above average skill as well, and its his ability to shoot the ball. However, he was also a very good defender, and rebounder in college. He averaged over 2 steals a game in college, and for a while, was one of the leaders in steals in the NCAA. Of course the NBA is a different animal, and he has a lot to learn, but for starters, he's not undersized for the position like Robinson was. He's as good, if not a better athlete than Robinson, and His BBIQ is much farther along than Robinson's. Frankly, I think he's more coachable than Robinson.

None of this means he should start over Thornton. That's for Malone to decide, and I'll abide by that decision. I suspect that Thornton will get the nod, unless McLemore starts making quantum leaps forward. Two advantages he'll have over Thornton, and they shouldn't be dismissed, is his ability to rebound, and in time, his ability to defend. He's a far better athlete than Thornton. He's also a lot more unselfish.

 

[hrdboild]

Far be it for me to know the mind set of the new regime, but I suspect that training camp, and preseason will determine whether McLemore starts or not. I don't think comparing him to Thomas Robinson is fair, even in concept. T. Rob had one above average skill coming out of college, and that was rebounding. He also had the beginning of a decent 15 to 18 foot jumper. But everything else he did was based on athleticism. His BBIQ was certainly lacking, and I don't think it helped him to play behind the Morris twins for two years, giving him few actual minutes on the floor.

McLemore has one above average skill as well, and its his ability to shoot the ball. However, he was also a very good defender, and rebounder in college. He averaged over 2 steals a game in college, and for a while, was one of the leaders in steals in the NCAA. Of course the NBA is a different animal, and he has a lot to learn, but for starters, he's not undersized for the position like Robinson was. He's as good, if not a better athlete than Robinson, and His BBIQ is much farther along than Robinson's. Frankly, I think he's more coachable than Robinson.

None of this means he should start over Thornton. That's for Malone to decide, and I'll abide by that decision. I suspect that Thornton will get the nod, unless McLemore starts making quantum leaps forward. Two advantages he'll have over Thornton, and they shouldn't be dismissed, is his ability to rebound, and in time, his ability to defend. He's a far better athlete than Thornton. He's also a lot more unselfish.

Well, I'm not the one who compared him to Thomas Robinson as a rookie -- that was Brick. I was commenting on him mostly to point out that I think we mismanaged his development while he was here (not a surprise considering basically everybody on the roster was mismanaged to some extent) and the results of that situation can't really be applied to this one. New coach, new regime, different player, different circumstances.

I suppose it doesn't matter to me all that much actually if McLemore is made the starter or comes off the bench this season so long as he gets substantial minutes and a graduating level of responsibility. I just want to see evidence of a plan and progress in his development. And I think you often have to place a certain amount of trust in a young player and allow them to work through some of their mistakes through trial and error which can only really happen with meaningful playing time (ie not 5-10 minutes at the end of blowouts). In terms of a fresh start though, on paper at least he's the future at SG so whatever we need to do to get him ready for that responsibility has to be a priority.

 

[Hallama]

However, he was also a very good defender, and rebounder in college. He averaged over 2 steals a game in college, and for a while, was one of the leaders in steals in the NCAA.

Ben averaged 1 SPG at Kansas. Not bad, not great...I like how he can block shots from the weakside or on the break. During VSL, he did lose track of his man a few times but his effort was always there.

 

[Bricklayer]

Indeed. And the NBDL something the previous regime wanted nothing to do with. I actually had the opportunity to ask Petrie at a Q&A once about his intentions regarding the d-league. He essentially pooh-poohed the idea as not worth the time and effort. I was surprised, given that effective use of the d-league has seemingly been something separating the successful small markets (like the Spurs) from the rest.

This change is one of the more heartening developments of the new regime, I think.

Unfortunately I think I agree with Petrie -- I don't think the D-league has been very significant for much of anything, or really has a chance to. Just the nature of the sport. Owning our own team means that we could actually afford to send Mac down for instance and command the coach down there to play him, and play him our way. That would be an advantage. But its not like baseball. Kids with the talent are generally good enough to play in the league at 19, and you don't uncover late breaking stars or whatnot. So a d-league team is really just going to be guys who might fill out spots 10-12 on the roster maybe. If we own them 5 years and got a single main rotation player out of it that we did not draft, we'd be doing well. I don't know about the contract rules for this, but having your own team might make it more worthwhile to keep/test 2nd round picks than before, but still, only 1/3 of those guys will even make a roster let alone matter.

I'm glad there's a D-league and think the league was smart for trying to develop it, but its one of those nature of the sport things that you aren't going to get much more than footnotes out of it. If guys are good enough they'll either be in the NBA or be in Europe earning money while waiting to be in the NBA.

 

[Vlade4GM]

A Jason Richardson type player is his best case scenario IMO.

I don't think posting basic stat lines of those players has any relevance whatsoever to McLemore. All of those players were very good creating off the dribble, McLemore is not. Comparable stat lines don't necessarily mean comparable impact, there's far more going on with what a player provides.

 

[Vlade4GM]

He averaged over 2 steals a game in college, and for a while, was one of the leaders in steals in the NCAA.

He averaged 1.2 spg per40 pace adjusted, that's mediocre at best.

 

[bajaden]

Ben averaged 1 SPG at Kansas. Not bad, not great...I like how he can block shots from the weakside or on the break. During VSL, he did lose track of his man a few times but his effort was always there.

To be honest, I didn't check his end of year stats. At one time he was averaging a couple of steals a game, along with Smart, Olidipo, and Carter-Williams. Probably not important in the grand scheme of things. But my point is, he did play pretty good defense in college. How that will translate to the NBA remains to be seen, but I suspect it will take some time.

 

[bajaden]

Unfortunately I think I agree with Petrie -- I don't think the D-league has been very significant for much of anything, or really has a chance to. Just the nature of the sport. Owning our own team means that we could actually afford to send Mac down for instance and command the coach down there to play him, and play him our way. That would be an advantage. But its not like baseball. Kids with the talent are generally good enough to play in the league at 19, and you don't uncover late breaking stars or whatnot. So a d-league team is really just going to be guys who might fill out spots 10-12 on the roster maybe. If we own them 5 years and got a single main rotation player out of it that we did not draft, we'd be doing well. I don't know about the contract rules for this, but having your own team might make it more worthwhile to keep/test 2nd round picks than before, but still, only 1/3 of those guys will even make a roster let alone matter.

I'm glad there's a D-league and think the league was smart for trying to develop it, but its one of those nature of the sport things that you aren't going to get much more than footnotes out of it. If guys are good enough they'll either be in the NBA or be in Europe earning money while waiting to be in the NBA.

For the D-League to be truely viable, it needs to mimic baseball's minor league system. Where you can actually own the contracts of all the players on the D-League team. There's no reason they couldn't come up with a system where only the players on the parent club count against your cap, along with restrictions on how many times you could move a player back and forth. Its a great place for players like Thabeet, that really need to learn the game to get that experience. Not only helps the player, but helps the team evaluate the player in the short term, and the long term.

As for baseball, I can't tell you how many young players I saw crying in the clubhouse after facing a legit major league curve ball or slider for the first time. Its very rare for a 19 year old player to have success in the majors. It does happen on occasion, but not often. Most players arrive in the Majors when their 23/24 years old, and often after a few trips back and forth between the minors and the majors.