Your prediction on Kevin Martin?

[LWP777]

i guess every team should just ask Brick before making a trade to see if it "will fit".


you guys have to realize some peoplerolleyes on this messege board are as stubborn as a donkey with their opinions. some people will just hate and rip on a player to their grave, or in some cases even root intentially for a certain player to do bad, just to justify their bashing. doesn't mean their right(even if their a MOD), just means its their opinion.



theres an old saying theres LIES, DAMN LIES, and then theres STATISTICS.

And what exactly is your point? Isn't the reason that fans come to a forum like this to express their OPINIONS? Oh, and thanks for that "old saying." I'd never heard that one before.

 

[Reem]

I don't know about voices in his head, but it is certainly a personal player problem. There is no chemistry issues that could cause wide open shots to be missed. I mean a wide open shot is a wide open shot no matter who passes you the ball right? Kevin has a problem between his ears but is it confidence? Is it the desire to play somewhere else? Is it jealousy? Who knows. But if he cant play with this team he is useless to us. So get what you can for him in trade I guess. But get value in return because he IS a good shooter, he is just in a slump.

He has proven over an NBA season he is a good shooter. Shooters dont forget how to shoot. He is still a valuable commodity. But only as a specialist. As a bench player who comes in and gives you 10-15 points. A bench player with no pressure on him to perform as a starter and be a good all around player. A specialist that doesn't play defense or rebound. That is really what he is at this point. And with the years of service he has, that is all he will probably ever be. Sorry Kings fans, but that is really who Kevin Martin is, a sharpshooting specialist who doesn't play defense. Not a savior or a super star. Not even an allstar. Just a shooter.

that's a brutal analysis
besides being just a shooter he's a drawing foul machine and he is very good at free throws
he can penetrate
he's 6'7! he can play SF as well
his defence is alright, not great but it's okay
he's a very good player, the situation in the Kings just don't fit him, that's all.

 

[vistacruza_kings]

And what exactly is your point? Isn't the reason that fans come to a forum like this to express their OPINIONS? Oh, and thanks for that "old saying." I'd never heard that one before.

o look its the kid that sent me a messege wishing me to "DIE OF AIDS" because he lost a bet for no money.

my point? some people on here come off on here(especially MODS) that everything they say is the truth. a simple "IMO" or "in my opinion" before or after you express yourself would make everyone alot happier IMO.

 

[Spike]

o look its the kid that sent me a messege wishing me to "DIE OF AIDS" because he lost a bet for no money.

my point? some people on here come off on here(especially MODS) that everything they say is the truth. a simple "IMO" or "in my opinion" before or after you express yourself would make everyone alot happier IMO.

Isn't it common knowledge that anything posted on an internet messaging board is "IMO?" Whom else's opinion would it be?



Back to Kevin Martin:

When all is said and done, more will be said than done.







(IMO)

 

[vistacruza_kings]

Isn't it common knowledge that anything posted on an internet messaging board is "IMO?" Whom else's opinion would it be?



Back to Kevin Martin:

When all is said and done, more will be said than done.







(IMO)

IMO from what ive seen with the MODS and others here (excluding VF), its either THEIR RIGHT or YOUR WRONG. nuff said

 

[Asaf]

IMO from what ive seen with the MODS and others here (excluding VF), its either THEIR RIGHT or YOUR WRONG. nuff said

Well, if I recall correctly, you are the one who dismissed this entire thread as a "knee-jerk-reaction" and made it seem as if anyone who wants to trade Martin can't have any more complex thought than "losing=Martin bad=trade Martin". Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Respect others' opinion and they will respect yours. It's as simple as that.

 

[TheFifthMookie]

Q: What do the following players have in common?
Quincy Douby
Mikki Moore
John Salmons
Brad Miller
Kenny Thomas
Beno Udrih
Shelden Williams
Andres Nocioni
Desmond Mason
Sean May
Spencer Hawes
Jason Thompson
Kevin Martin

A: They have all done a turn within the past 18 months as Whipping Boy Du Jour at KingsFans.com ("The Best Fans!").

So true! why do people here need to pick someone out to hate on?

 

[TTown Kings]

So true! why do people here need to pick someone out to hate on?

Because out team is 16-34 and is 2-18 in the last 20 games. Last year they had 17 wins. Sorry, but with play like this someone is going to take the blame. Start playing good bball and the "hate" will subside.

 

[PacMan]

i guess every team should just ask Brick before making a trade to see if it "will fit".


you guys have to realize some peoplerolleyes on this messege board are as stubborn as a donkey with their opinions. some people will just hate and rip on a player to their grave, or in some cases even root intentially for a certain player to do bad, just to justify their bashing. doesn't mean their right(even if their a MOD), just means its their opinion.



theres an old saying theres LIES, DAMN LIES, and then theres STATISTICS.

Yes, but these people have posted pretty convincing arguement to back their opinion and then there's people who just posted meaningless reactionary comment like yourself without really posting anything to back YOUR viewpoint so I dont know what that makes you? So i dont know who's the donkey in this case.

 

[TheFifthMookie]

The difference between last year and this year is gigantic. Basketball teams don't become contenders overnight. A team that routinely plays 3 rookies and a couple of veterans isn't going to win a bunch of games, I'm not sure why you guys are so mad. The youth is developing, and youth isn't so great because they need to learn, and while they learn, they're going to have disastrous third quarters, and wasted last minute opportunities. Even Kobe shot airballs at crunch time when he was young.

 

[Asaf]

The difference between last year and this year is gigantic. Basketball teams don't become contenders overnight. A team that routinely plays 3 rookies and a couple of veterans isn't going to win a bunch of games, I'm not sure why you guys are so mad. The youth is developing, and youth isn't so great because they need to learn, and while they learn, they're going to have disastrous third quarters, and wasted last minute opportunities. Even Kobe shot airballs at crunch time when he was young.

That would be true, except the youth isn't really the main problem on this team...

 

[Smills91]

I think Petrie will keep Martin, because I don't think any team offers up anything even remotely close to fair value for Martin that meets our team needs.

With that said, I'd love to experiment with Beno and Tyreke starting and have Martin/Sergio come off the bench. Martin's at his best when being set up with the offense and he tends to make things happen that way. I think Martin can still get 30 minutes + each night off the bench and it may allow us to maximize the strengths of Martin and Tyreke, and getting them both into the flow of the game to where they play more effectively with each other as well.

 

[Smills91]

That would be true, except the youth isn't really the main problem on this team...

I'd say it is. Both Thompson and Hawes are great young players, but they both have a long ways to go, ESPECIALLY on the defensive side of the ball. I'm sure they'll shore that up in time, but blaming Martin while we're getting DESTROYED in the paint on defense is not just myopic, it's BLIND.

 

[Smills91]

The difference between last year and this year is gigantic. Basketball teams don't become contenders overnight. A team that routinely plays 3 rookies and a couple of veterans isn't going to win a bunch of games, I'm not sure why you guys are so mad. The youth is developing, and youth isn't so great because they need to learn, and while they learn, they're going to have disastrous third quarters, and wasted last minute opportunities. Even Kobe shot airballs at crunch time when he was young.

Now he hits threes from out of bounds....

 

[TheFifthMookie]

That would be true, except the youth isn't really the main problem on this team...

Our young Point guard doesn't have a developed outside shot.
Our young Power forward is routinely in foul trouble.
Our young Center gets backed down easily and completely disappears some games.
Our young small forward (Donte) went from barely in the league last year to learning to be a defensive stopper and now has filled that role for 40 games and is still learning shot selection.
Our Shooting Guard is 13 games back from a wrist injury that made him unable to shoot for an extended period of time.

I fully expect all of these guys to do better into the future, which is why I'm not screaming bloody murder like I did last year prior to the salmons/miller trade. The future is brighter than the present, and that wasn't the case pre-trade deadline last year.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Our Shooting Guard is 13 games back from a wrist injury on his shooting hand.

Wasn't it his non-shooting hand? Did I remember that wrong?

 

[TheFifthMookie]

Wasn't it his non-shooting hand? Did I remember that wrong?

Upon review, it looks like I had it wrong, coulda swore I read that somewhere. edited above.

 

[Luv4Kings]

One more time, for review. Although this has certainly been pointed out many times.

The Kings last good game was in Chicago on December 21.

Since that game, the team has pretty much sucked. Everyone here spent the next 3 weeks whining about Hawes, Thompson, Greene, Casspi, Nocioni, Sergio - pick any player - as the worst player in history, they should be benched, traded, humiliated, team chemistry is awful, whatever.

Martin didn't return until January 15th, almost a MONTH later!

However, all that whining before January 15th is now forgotten. And because when Martin returned we didn't become the Lakers overnight, it's now all Martin's fault?!?

The worries before Martin came back were all about how Martin was a ball-hog and would demand 30 shots a game. Well, he didn't. He stepped back and played within the system. Critisized by some now for not demanding the ball more. Oh, now he's hurting team chemistry. Everybody on that team loves the guy. Just because Casspi whines a little about wanting more minutes, let's remember Casspi is a rookie.

I've seen every game this season and let me tell you clearly, Martin is NOT the problem. We all know that our front line can't stop anybody over 5'3" going to the basket consistently. Although they do have their moments even so and are still young.

It's a team game and we're a young team.

Fickle fans.

I'm embarassed to be known as a Kings fan among some of you here.

 

[Kingsguy881]

One more time, for review. Although this has certainly been pointed out many times.

The Kings last good game was in Chicago on December 21.

Since that game, the team has pretty much sucked. Everyone here spent the next 3 weeks whining about Hawes, Thompson, Greene, Casspi, Nocioni, Sergio - pick any player - as the worst player in history, they should be benched, traded, humiliated, team chemistry is awful, whatever.

Martin didn't return until January 15th, almost a MONTH later!

However, all that whining before January 15th is now forgotten. And because when Martin returned we didn't become the Lakers overnight, it's now all Martin's fault?!?

The worries before Martin came back were all about how Martin was a ball-hog and would demand 30 shots a game. Well, he didn't. He stepped back and played within the system. Critisized by some now for not demanding the ball more. Oh, now he's hurting team chemistry. Everybody on that team loves the guy. Just because Casspi whines a little about wanting more minutes, let's remember Casspi is a rookie.

I've seen every game this season and let me tell you clearly, Martin is NOT the problem. We all know that our front line can't stop anybody over 5'3" going to the basket consistently. Although they do have their moments even so and are still young.

It's a team game and we're a young team.

Fickle fans.

I'm embarassed to be known as a Kings fan among some of you here.

They are everywhere you look, man. Don't be embarrassed, what you have before you are a lot of 'fans' who are newcomers, who weren't here during the true years of this franchise. They are impatient, young, and demand immediate results. They do not have the experience of 7+ 25-27 win seasons before any real headway was made. We in all honesty have to be patient with them too.

 

[vistacruza_kings]

One more time, for review. Although this has certainly been pointed out many times.

The Kings last good game was in Chicago on December 21.

Since that game, the team has pretty much sucked. Everyone here spent the next 3 weeks whining about Hawes, Thompson, Greene, Casspi, Nocioni, Sergio - pick any player - as the worst player in history, they should be benched, traded, humiliated, team chemistry is awful, whatever.

Martin didn't return until January 15th, almost a MONTH later!

However, all that whining before January 15th is now forgotten. And because when Martin returned we didn't become the Lakers overnight, it's now all Martin's fault?!?

The worries before Martin came back were all about how Martin was a ball-hog and would demand 30 shots a game. Well, he didn't. He stepped back and played within the system. Critisized by some now for not demanding the ball more. Oh, now he's hurting team chemistry. Everybody on that team loves the guy. Just because Casspi whines a little about wanting more minutes, let's remember Casspi is a rookie.

I've seen every game this season and let me tell you clearly, Martin is NOT the problem. We all know that our front line can't stop anybody over 5'3" going to the basket consistently. Although they do have their moments even so and are still young.

It's a team game and we're a young team.

Fickle fans.

I'm embarassed to be known as a Kings fan among some of you here.

great post, yes sometimes i forget we have Kings fans of all ages.

 

[PacMan]

great post, yes sometimes i forget we have Kings fans of all ages.

uhh great post? please...

The king's last good game was not against the bulls. We went on to push the defending champ twice to OT and one to the last shot as well as the Cavs to OT. Those were good games even though they result in a lost. You say Martin is not the problem? He's shooting 38% for the season! He may not be the complete problem but he's definitely part of the problem.

 

[Bricklayer]

Our young Point guard doesn't have a developed outside shot.
Our young Power forward is routinely in foul trouble.
Our young Center gets backed down easily and completely disappears some games.
Our young small forward (Donte) went from barely in the league last year to learning to be a defensive stopper and now has filled that role for 40 games and is still learning shot selection.
Our Shooting Guard is 13 games back from a wrist injury that made him unable to shoot for an extended period of time.

I fully expect all of these guys to do better into the future, which is why I'm not screaming bloody murder like I did last year prior to the salmons/miller trade. The future is brighter than the present, and that wasn't the case pre-trade deadline last year.

Thise arguments would hold a lot more water if the exact same youth, only several months YOUNGER in their NBA development hadn't been banigng around taking the big boys to OT less than 6 weeks ago.

And that last good game was 6 weeks ago argument is profoundly ridiculous. Yeah, we take the defending champs to two OTs in one game and get beat at the buzzer at the other. We take the Lebrons to OT. We are leading last year's Finals runnerup going into the 4th. We beat last year's other WCF team not once but twice. Poor games all of them for a team full of first and second year players. The worst part of that attempt to sully that young scrappy team is that it comes from their own alleged "fans" -- and its such a relief to finally be able to play the bad fan card myself after years of being accused of it. Our own alleged "fans" are so desperate to protect a single favored player they are willing to distort and trash the record of our other guys without said player. Bring me on some Lakers trolls. At least their disparagement is clean and universal and understandable.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Thise arguments would hold a lot more water if the exact same youth, only several months YOUNGER in their NBA development hadn't been banigng around taking the big boys to OT less than 6 weeks ago.

And that last good game was 6 weeks ago argument is profoundly ridiculous. Yeah, we take the defending champs to two OTs in one game and get beat at the buzzer at the other. We take the Lebrons to OT. We are leading last year's Finals runnerup going into the 4th. We beat last year's other WCF team not once but twice. Poor games all of them for a team full of first and second year players. The worst part of that attempt to sully that young scrappy team is that it comes from their own alleged "fans" -- and its such a relief to finally be able to play the bad fan card myself after years of being accused of it. Our own alleged "fans" are so desperate to protect a single favored player they are willing to distort and trash the record of our other guys without said player. Bring me on some Lakers trolls. At least their disparagement is clean and universal and understandable.

And full of **** and Kobe love....however, if they drafted Kobe to play sf I doubt there would be fans bitching about him not being a true sf and that they should have just drafted Peja because he is a true sf.....

 

[TheFifthMookie]

Our own alleged "fans" are so desperate to protect a single favored player they are willing to distort and trash the record of our other guys without said player. Bring me on some Lakers trolls. At least their disparagement is clean and universal and understandable.

Bleh, just because you disagree with a cause is no reason to quote my text and then compare "our own alleged 'fans'" to lakers trolls, thus insinuating that I'm in that group. pretty transparent and completely disingenuous on your part.

The young guys wound up losing 4 out of 5 culminating with a blowout against Orlando with mostly home games against pretty good teams prior to Martin's return. I'm not convinced that his return is the cause of them losing right now, a part of it surely, but not -=the cause=-. Our bigs have played terribly over this stretch as well.

Usually I vigorously agree with you Brick, but this time, I'm content to wait and you're not. That's ok, because at least you have an interesting argument to support your position, and that's fresh in these parts nowadays.

Thanks.

 

[kingzfan]

One more time, for review. Although this has certainly been pointed out many times.

The Kings last good game was in Chicago on December 21.

Since that game, the team has pretty much sucked. Everyone here spent the next 3 weeks whining about Hawes, Thompson, Greene, Casspi, Nocioni, Sergio - pick any player - as the worst player in history, they should be benched, traded, humiliated, team chemistry is awful, whatever.

Martin didn't return until January 15th, almost a MONTH later!

However, all that whining before January 15th is now forgotten. And because when Martin returned we didn't become the Lakers overnight, it's now all Martin's fault?!?

The worries before Martin came back were all about how Martin was a ball-hog and would demand 30 shots a game. Well, he didn't. He stepped back and played within the system. Critisized by some now for not demanding the ball more. Oh, now he's hurting team chemistry. Everybody on that team loves the guy. Just because Casspi whines a little about wanting more minutes, let's remember Casspi is a rookie.

I've seen every game this season and let me tell you clearly, Martin is NOT the problem. We all know that our front line can't stop anybody over 5'3" going to the basket consistently. Although they do have their moments even so and are still young.

It's a team game and we're a young team.

Fickle fans.

I'm embarassed to be known as a Kings fan among some of you here.

Word!

 

[Luv4Kings]

Thise arguments would hold a lot more water if the exact same youth, only several months YOUNGER in their NBA development hadn't been banigng around taking the big boys to OT less than 6 weeks ago.

And that last good game was 6 weeks ago argument is profoundly ridiculous. Yeah, we take the defending champs to two OTs in one game and get beat at the buzzer at the other. We take the Lebrons to OT. We are leading last year's Finals runnerup going into the 4th. We beat last year's other WCF team not once but twice. Poor games all of them for a team full of first and second year players. The worst part of that attempt to sully that young scrappy team is that it comes from their own alleged "fans" -- and its such a relief to finally be able to play the bad fan card myself after years of being accused of it. Our own alleged "fans" are so desperate to protect a single favored player they are willing to distort and trash the record of our other guys without said player. Bring me on some Lakers trolls. At least their disparagement is clean and universal and understandable.

So let's start with the obvious question you didn't answer above.

Why the big drop off of this young scrappy team after December 21st?

And note for the record, I'm not a player basher, nor am I a fan of one single player. I love this entire team from Evans to May. I've seen each and every one of them contribute and every one of them mess up.

So, why the big drop off then? You didn't explain it. Obviously you can't blame the one player you hate, Kevin Martin because he didn't come back until January 15th.

There could be several reasons. Maybe the big teams overlooked our young scrappy team and didn't play their best games? Maybe most of them are rookies and they simply hit a rookie wall? Maybe most of those games were at home with a sparse but hyped up crowd? Maybe they don't like to play during the holidays. I certainly wouldn't want to "sully" these guys. I did point out that many fans here did just that during that time frame. I disagreed with them and defended this young scrappy team.

But facts are simply facts. This team had a drop off after December 21st for whatever reason you want to name. But you can't blame the one guy who wasn't on the court. Unless you just want to be one of the group of other player bashers here.

 

[Luv4Kings]

Bleh, just because you disagree with a cause is no reason to quote my text and then compare "our own alleged 'fans'" to lakers trolls, thus insinuating that I'm in that group. pretty transparent and completely disingenuous on your part.

The young guys wound up losing 4 out of 5 culminating with a blowout against Orlando with mostly home games against pretty good teams prior to Martin's return. I'm not convinced that his return is the cause of them losing right now, a part of it surely, but not -=the cause=-. Our bigs have played terribly over this stretch as well.

Usually I vigorously agree with you Brick, but this time, I'm content to wait and you're not. That's ok, because at least you have an interesting argument to support your position, and that's fresh in these parts nowadays.

Thanks.

Yeah, the Laker Trolls thing was a bit much, but I overlooked it since it was obviously spoken in the heat of passion.

Most of the time Brick is reasonable and has very good observations of games. But when someone has such passion against a particular player, it's hard for them to control it. It's easier to just toss it the opposite way and claim those who support Kevin are somehow the ones with brainless passion.

Oh well. Nobody's perfect.