You Be the Coach: vs. Cavs 01/14/2012

[Bricklayer]

I had an idea for a new type of recurring thread. I have no idea if it will catch any imaginations or not. But the idea came to me, and I figured, why not see what happened.

So we all like to complain about the coach. I think with good reason, but hey, let's prove it. My idea was this. What about starting a thread before each game titled "You be the Coach", and have it be a place where peeps could all post how they would coach against the upcoming opponent. Who they'd start, what their rotations would be. How they'd attack them. How they'd defend them. What they would worry about and how they'd counter it. etc.


For instance, tommorow vs. the Cavs this would be my approach:

Starters
Cousins
Thompson
Salmons
Evans (the Garcia experiment has to end now with Reke and Thronton both back)
Thomas

Bench rotation: Thornton, TRob, Johnson, Brooks. No deeper. No need against this team. Restore a normal rotation, get guys back into roles.

-- I would bounce TRob up to 3rd big ahead of Hayes Might not even play Chuck as there is nobody for him to guard on the Cavs, and the Cavs don't have guys who can really punish TRob inside. Go to a 3-big roitation. If Robinson fails, then I might even use Johnson over Chuck as long as its against Luke Walton, who is as close as the Cavs come to a thrid big. Otherwise keep it tight.

-- Thomas would go ahead and guard Irving. For whatever reasons he has seeemed to play him well.

-- This would be a Cousins and Reke game. Cousins + Reke vs. Zeller and Miles = win. Pound it inside all night long.

-- Thornton is a good physical match vs. Waiters off the bench. Stick with that, don't give them any gifts with the Jimmer matchup.

-- If Salmons continued to struggle would likely skip over Johnson/keep him off the bench, and go directly to Cisco to try to play the similar role.

-- nonetheless, Cisco, Hayes, Jimmer, Outlaw, Honeycutt likely do not play for me in this one until the blowout is on, which it would be.

 

[VF21]

Okay, I'll give it a try...

Starters:
Thomas
Evans
Salmons
Thompson
Cousins

My substitutions, depending on foul situation of course, would consist of Thornton (reluctantly), TRob, Jimmer and Johnson. I didn't include Brooks for a couple of reasons. He might not be available plus I haven't given up on Jimmer.

I would not utilize the platoon approach. I would make substitutions staggered so that the bench isn't out there by themselves. If it means more minutes for the starters (with the exception of Evans depending on his stamina), so be it. I wouldn't be adverse to using Hayes if necessary, but he wouldn't be out there with TRob under any circumstances.

My main thought would be to maintain as much momentum as possible the entire game. If the tide started to shift, I would make every effort via time out and substitution to stop it before it went too far.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

run the offense through DeMarcus. NOBODY in cleveland can guard him. they did a terrible job gettin him the ball in the post in the MIA game. hopefully Keith Smart did some practice today with his guards to teach them entry passes to the post


Thomas
Evans
Salmons
JT
Cuz

bench:
Brooks
MT
JJ
T-ROb

nobody else needs to see the court unless theres a blowout.

BUT with Keith Smart, we all know that 12 or 13 guys will get minutes

 

[kingsnation]

Starters:
DFC
JT
Salmons
Reke
IT

Rotation:
MT
TRob
Johnson
-

I go 8 man rotation with the sub patterns looking like this:

C: DFC, JT
PF: JT, Trob
SF: Salmons, Johnson
SG: Reke, MT
PG: IT, Salmons, Reke
-

I actually am a fan of Salmons initiating the offense. I think it challenges him to get others involved and he's a good defender. I wouldn't mind seeing a lineup like this once IT goes out: Salmons at point, MT or Reke at the 2 and then JJ at SF.

If we need to dip into a 9-man rotation, then Cisco will be the first off the bench. In the 8-man rotation, I believe that we need to make sure that EITHER DFC or Reke are on the floor at all times. They are our best two options and they should never be both out of the game.

When they're both in the game, DFC has to be our focal point. Attack the basket and use our strength to push around Cleveland. Use our strength and size advantages with DFC, JT and Reke.

I'd like to see Salmons drive to the hoop when he's running the point. I think he can create using his size and get some easy hoops for our big guys. Also, for this game - I'd try to get MT some easy shots. If he begins to force the issue, I'd sit him.

 

[pshn80]

Don't know enough to play but I will go with Brick's approach.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Last night, untill the game was over, Eric Spoelstra made sure that one of Bosh/James/Wade was on the court at ALL times. Take notes Keith

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Cool Idea.

My biggest thing is consistency, so I'm not sure my game plan would be that different from game to game, or at the very least, I want to rotation to be the same on most nights. With that being said - I also want to say that I would start Evans at PG all the time. I'm not going to include that here because I know that isn't even remotely realistic.

Here we go.

Thomas/Evans
Evans/Thornton
Salmons/Johnson
Thompson/Johnson
Cousins/Robinson

With a rotation of Thornton coming in to play the two, Evans playing 'backup PG' when Thomas comes out. James Johnson playing backup 3 and 4. Robinson playing backup 5 (although Ideally one of Thompson / Cousins will be on the court at almost all times. Any extra guard minutes will go to Jimmer, and extra big man minutes will go to Hayes, but hopefully they won't even need to play.

Now, for this specific game I'd play Thompson on Thompson, and Cousins on Zeller. IT has played Kyrie well in the past, but if that matchup gets out of hand we have to immediately go big and put Evans or Salmons on him. When the bench comes in I'd like to see Johnson on Waiters.

This is a game we should absolutely, 100% win. No Varajao for the Cavs.

 

[Glenn]

Good idea. It shows you read my notes and then throw in a brick twist.

Would you make changes on the fly in this thread? It could lead to interesting discussions especially if not many take part.

 

[flipray]

Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones
Aaron Brooks (illness) missed practice today. He's not likely to play tomorrow vs Cleveland, Evans is back in starting lineup #NBAKings

Well finally he's back in. I just hope he starts at SG and not SF with MT.

 

[GoodOldDouwe]

Jason Jones ‏@mr_jasonjones
Aaron Brooks (illness) missed practice today. He's not likely to play tomorrow vs Cleveland, Evans is back in starting lineup #NBAKings

Well finally he's back in. I just hope he starts at SG and not SF with MT.

Jonathan Santiago ‏@itsjonsantiago
Shooting guard. Marcus Thornton is still coming off the bench. RT @DouwevVeen @itsjonsantiago What position?

 

[panda]

PG- Tyreke
SG- Jimmer
SF- Salmons
PF- Thompson
C- Cousins

6th- Thomas with Tyreke sliding over. Bring Robinson in to rest Thompson or Cousins (with Thompson sliding to C)

Garcia as a defense substitution and Thornton if Jimmer is having bad shooting night, I would keep a very short leash on Jimmer, but he needs to play to regain his shot. If he can be an outside threat, it does more to open the middle for Cousins.

At no time would Jimmer, Thomas and Thornton be on the floor together, but Robinson Cousins and Thompson could clog up the paint and dominate a weak middle of the Cavs.

Outlaw and Hayes would lock Smart in a broom closet in the arena and guard that door to make sure he doesn't get near the rest of the team.

I favor an olde timey strategy, feed the ball inside to Cousins all game. No Cousins jumpers, no 3 pointers from Cousins, if Cousins is triple teamed, have him kick it outside to a mini chucker. Challenge Cleveland to stop him and if they can't, let Cousins score 100.

 

[lwc]

No Varajeo, no Brooks, Tyreke starts... how can the Kings lose this one?

 

[mac]

No Varajeo, no Brooks, Tyreke starts... how can the Kings lose this one?

Our team is very good at surprising us Not to mention a IT/Jimmer/MT/Evans/Salmons lineup that Keith Smart still has up his sleeve. You know, more ballhandlers and stuff like that.

 

[KingMilz]

Since the first unit is pretty much set I wouldn't mind seeing a 2nd unit of

PG: Reke (sub him out around the first quarter with 3-4mins left)
SG: MT/Jimmer
SF: Honeycutt
PF: T-Rob/ James Johnson
C: James Johnson/T-Rob

since Zeller would most likely be out at this point Cleveland has no other true bigs and I think JJ/TRob should be able to defend Tristian, this line up would easily be our most athletic and all there job is will be to to use there athletic ability to stop the Cavs scoring by swarming all around the court and get transition buckets. Every time we have gone to the bench this season we got murderd for the most part so why not put out a ultra athletic line up out there with 1 real good shooter and let Honeycutt/T-Rob develop and show what they can do in meaningful mins. This unit can be our energy unit against teams that lack true scoring bigs.

Reke can do pretty much as he feels with this line up and you can have JJ/T-Rob/Honeycutt flying in for offensive boards. While the floor spacing might not be the greatest at least our defense and transition ability is through the roof.

I really have zero interest in seeing Outlaw/Garcia ever again and Chuck while I respect him I just don't see him as a guy we should feed mins to looking at it long term.

 

[Kingster]

I had an idea for a new type of recurring thread. I have no idea if it will catch any imaginations or not. But the idea came to me, and I figured, why not see what happened.

So we all like to complain about the coach. I think with good reason, but hey, let's prove it. My idea was this. What about starting a thread before each game titled "You be the Coach", and have it be a place where peeps could all post how they would coach against the upcoming opponent. Who they'd start, what their rotations would be. How they'd attack them. How they'd defend them. What they would worry about and how they'd counter it. etc.


For instance, tommorow vs. the Cavs this would be my approach:

Starters
Cousins
Thompson
Salmons
Evans (the Garcia experiment has to end now with Reke and Thronton both back)
Thomas

Bench rotation: Thornton, TRob, Johnson, Brooks. No deeper. No need against this team. Restore a normal rotation, get guys back into roles.

-- I would bounce TRob up to 3rd big ahead of Hayes Might not even play Chuck as there is nobody for him to guard on the Cavs, and the Cavs don't have guys who can really punish TRob inside. Go to a 3-big roitation. If Robinson fails, then I might even use Johnson over Chuck as long as its against Luke Walton, who is as close as the Cavs come to a thrid big. Otherwise keep it tight.

-- Thomas would go ahead and guard Irving. For whatever reasons he has seeemed to play him well.

-- This would be a Cousins and Reke game. Cousins + Reke vs. Zeller and Miles = win. Pound it inside all night long.

-- Thornton is a good physical match vs. Waiters off the bench. Stick with that, don't give them any gifts with the Jimmer matchup.

-- If Salmons continued to struggle would likely skip over Johnson/keep him off the bench, and go directly to Cisco to try to play the similar role.

-- nonetheless, Cisco, Hayes, Jimmer, Outlaw, Honeycutt likely do not play for me in this one until the blowout is on, which it would be.

I agree with everything you said. Mark it down in the history books.

I'd pound it inside with both Cousins and Tyreke. However, if I'm the Cleveland coach, I might bring Waiters off the bench much earlier than normal in order to put him on Tyreke. That could negate Tyreke's strength advantage, but it may be that Tyreke can use his quickness against Waiters (I'm not certain about that though).

I agree about Robinson. The light bulb seems to have come on and the more minutes he gets the better he seems to play. I'll repeat my mantra that I still want to see him and Tyreke involved in defensive traps. As a duo I can see those guys creating havoc on the defensive end if they are used properly.

After going against LBJ, I have a feeling that Salmons might break out in this game.

By the way, for all the IT "fans", I do want him to be aggressive in this game. Not a potted plant. He's got to make Irving work on the defensive end of the floor. Otherwise, Irving will be doing all his work on the offensive end. Not a good thing.

 

[Entity]

i can get behind Trob being 3rd big. he seems to be catching up to NBA speed. If he can finish out the year getting valuable experience. It will help us out in the long run.

 

[mac]

I agree with everything you said. Mark it down in the history books.

I'd pound it inside with both Cousins and Tyreke. However, if I'm the Cleveland coach, I might bring Waiters off the bench much earlier than normal in order to put him on Tyreke. That could negate Tyreke's strength advantage, but it may be that Tyreke can use his quickness against Waiters (I'm not certain about that though).

I agree about Robinson. The light bulb seems to have come on and the more minutes he gets the better he seems to play. I'll repeat my mantra that I still want to see him and Tyreke involved in defensive traps. As a duo I can see those guys creating havoc on the defensive end if they are used properly.

After going against LBJ, I have a feeling that Salmons might break out in this game.

By the way, for all the IT "fans", I do want him to be aggressive in this game. Not a potted plant. He's got to make Irving work on the defensive end of the floor. Otherwise, Irving will be doing all his work on the offensive end. Not a good thing.

A good coach would have Irving fighting through loads of screens to contest spot up 3s from IT. Better yet, move IT off the ball and make him a shooter - have Irving chase him all around the court. If IT just goes 1 on 1 Irving isn't going to have to work as hard as having to chase him around the court.

 

[Kingster]

A good coach would have Irving fighting through loads of screens to contest spot up 3s from IT. Better yet, move IT off the ball and make him a shooter - have Irving chase him all around the court. If IT just goes 1 on 1 Irving isn't going to have to work as hard as having to chase him around the court.

Totally agree. Why not both screens with and without the ball? I don't want predictability on offense. Also, it would be nice if we could see the same from Brooks (or whoever subs for IT) because IT probably won't play as many minutes as Irving.

 

[macadocious]

I think we need to have either JT or DMC in the game at all times. We also need to have two starters in at all time.

I hate the play the entire bench at the same time game. It's ridiculous. Especially when your bench is mediocre at best. This is not the bench mob from 2001.

 

[Entity]

I think we need to have either JT or DMC in the game at all times. We also need to have two starters in at all time.

I hate the play the entire bench at the same time game. It's ridiculous. Especially when your bench is mediocre at best. This is not the bench mob from 2001.

I second that. either Tyreke or Cuz should be in at all times and never a combo of bigs without one of JT or Cuz. and honestly one of the pg's needs to sit entire game. AT NO TIME should Jimmer be on the floor with one of the other pg's. That has cost us alot more than it has helped. i'd rather not see JJ at the 4 but if it has to be done its better than Outlaw. why hasn't he been released yet.

 

[gatoradeSD]

idk how you guys can still start salmons...he sucks. at least start Garcia over salmons. he doesnt have kobe bryant syndrome and can actually play defense

 

[beb0p]

For instance, tommorow vs. the Cavs this would be my approach:

Starters
Cousins
Thompson
Salmons
Evans (the Garcia experiment has to end now with Reke and Thronton both back)
Thomas

I've noticed that when Salmons and Evans are on the floor together, the former turns into a selfish, incompetent black hole that can't buy a basket; but when Salmons is free of Tyreke, he usually rocks (relatively speaking of course, it's still Salmons after all). They don't compliment each other for obvious reason. This dynamic needs to be resolved - Salmons needs to learn to play off of Evans and perhaps Evans should learn to pound the ball less and share more; regardless, if this funk continues then one of them should come off the bench. If and when that time comes, the person going to the bench should be Salmons but the SFs behind him don't give you much confidence aren't exactly good fit with Evans either. It may actually make some sense to have Reke comes off the bench in order to have a more fluid starting lineup and to free Salmons, but then you're putting your second best player in a Sixth Man role on a team thin with talent to begin with. There's no good solution. Needs to trade away some of the pieces that don't fit and get some that do.

 

[macadocious]

I second that. either Tyreke or Cuz should be in at all times and never a combo of bigs without one of JT or Cuz. and honestly one of the pg's needs to sit entire game. AT NO TIME should Jimmer be on the floor with one of the other pg's. That has cost us alot more than it has helped. i'd rather not see JJ at the 4 but if it has to be done its better than Outlaw. why hasn't he been released yet.

We have yet to see Reke/Jimmer back court. Which is just insane to me.

 

[Bricklayer]

I've noticed that when Salmons and Evans are on the floor together, the former turns into a selfish, incompetent black hole that can't buy a basket; but when Salmons is free of Tyreke, he usually rocks (relatively speaking of course, it's still Salmons after all). They don't compliment each other for obvious reason. This dynamic needs to be resolved - Salmons needs to learn to play off of Evans and perhaps Evans should learn to pound the ball less and share more; regardless, if this funk continues then one of them should come off the bench. If and when that time comes, the person going to the bench should be Salmons but the SFs behind him don't give you much confidence aren't exactly good fit with Evans either. It may actually make some sense to have Reke comes off the bench in order to have a more fluid starting lineup and to free Salmons, but then you're putting your second best player in a Sixth Man role on a team thin with talent to begin with. There's no good solution. Needs to trade away some of the pieces that don't fit and get some that do.

Think you are misremembering, or more liekly remembering the disastrous Salmons of last year.

The Salmons/Reke/Brooks backcourt actually worked really well together in the early season for us -- until that little burst post Cousins blowup, it was the best stretch of the season for us. And Salmons coming in and being markedly unselfish was a big reason why it worked. He and Brooks both actually.

And in any case, no, you don't take your second best palyer out of the lineup so that John frickin' Salmons can be comfortable. he iether will be, or he'll be out himself. I actually worry more about IT though to tell you the truth. Now he and Reke always have been oil and water. And unfortunately the 5'9" oil gets to bring the ball up most of the time, so if he doesn't get the mix right, Reke never even gets involved.

 

[rainmaker]

Brick is correct, and we've been two of the bigger proponents of the Brooks/Reke/Salmons trio as they necessitated our best stretch of the year. Brooks/Salmons showed a willingness to play off Reke and at the time Reke was playing arguably the best ball of his career. The idea is to add Cuz's recent play to the play of that trio. We haven't seen that yet.

When it's IT/Reke/Salmons or IT/MT/Reke, Reke is simply not involved nearly as much, spends much time watching IT pound the ball or watching IT choose to swing the ball to others. It's understandable though as IT needs to ball to be most effective and that's why oil/water opinion on an IT/Reke pairing of any kind. Move IT off the ball and off Reke and he's a 5'9" off guard, which is rarely, if ever successful in this league.

Say what you want but Reke showed pre injury he still has the talent to be our #1 or #2 player when he's a focal point of our attack, yet we haven't seen the Reke we saw during the Brooks/Reke/Salmons lineup at anytime when IT is put next to him instead, this year or last. It's not just a coincidence. We can hope an IT/Reke/Salmons trio could be effective, but as noted when Reke/Salmons play next to IT we don't get the same chemistry which was successful with the Brooks/Reke/Salmons trio.

 

[beb0p]

Think you are misremembering, or more liekly remembering the disastrous Salmons of last year.

The Salmons/Reke/Brooks backcourt actually worked really well together in the early season for us -- until that little burst post Cousins blowup, it was the best stretch of the season for us. And Salmons coming in and being markedly unselfish was a big reason why it worked. He and Brooks both actually.

And in any case, no, you don't take your second best palyer out of the lineup so that John frickin' Salmons can be comfortable. he iether will be, or he'll be out himself. I actually worry more about IT though to tell you the truth. Now he and Reke always have been oil and water. And unfortunately the 5'9" oil gets to bring the ball up most of the time, so if he doesn't get the mix right, Reke never even gets involved.

Salmons shot 48.6% during games where Reke didn't played and 35.5% during games where Reke played. Furthermore, Salmons has gone 4 for 18 the last two games since Tyreke came back and logged 25+ minutes. Numbers don't lie. Salmons plays a lot better without Reke than with him.

What you cited is too small a sample considering they started in the same lineup a total of eight games this season (one of those games Reke only played ten minutes). The record is 3-5 during the eight games. The early season Kings basically sucked. I know they sucked less at times but still let's not mistaken mediocrity for success. Speaking of which, the Kings are 8-8 when Reke was absent. Salmons was moving the ball and being unselfish (as much as possible for him) when Reke was out. When Reke is in, the result is mixed. There were games he moved the ball, and then there were games where he didn't. But it's the shooting that is the most telling 48.6% vs 35.5%.

You're right, we shouldn't alter the lineup to accommodate Salmons, but unfortunately Salmons is our best SF and his play takes a dive with Reke in there. That's something that needs to be addressed.