Yao Ming gets max deal from Rockets

[Kings2805]

EVERYONE gradually declines. I think, however, you're a tad premature in your assessment of Steve Nash. You may not see him playing that well again, but I think the common opinion throughout most of the NBA is he still has a couple of good years left.

You're right everybody gradually does decline, but they do more so at 30+, then they would at like 25-30, because that is typically their prime years. The point I was making which you stated is that he won't duplicate last year, not that he is going to fall of the face of the earth. I agree he does have a couple good years of 16+ pts/gm and 8+ assts/gm, but eventually before his contract ends at like 35-36 he won't be worth $12 mil/season.

I have a Question for everybody who reads this post, as of right now who do you think is a better PG: Bibby or Nash?
It seems alot of people used to think Bibby, but after last Year people are swaying over to Nash.

 

[VF21]

He's 30 and he does have a couple of good (but rapidly declining) years left? Ah, the innocence of youth.



Simply turning 30 - contrary to what you apparently believe - doesn't automatically turn off your ability to do certain things.

To answer your question about who is better, I've already given my answer in my top 3 point guards...Steve Nash is better than Mike Bibby. But that doesn't really mean a thing. Mike Bibby does a terrific job for us, the Sacramento Kings, and that's what is important IMHO.

 

[Kings2805]

He's 30 and he does have a couple of good (but rapidly declining) years left? Ah, the innocence of youth.



Simply turning 30 - contrary to what you apparently believe - doesn't automatically turn off your ability to do certain things.

To answer your question about who is better, I've already given my answer in my top 3 point guards...Steve Nash is better than Mike Bibby. But that doesn't really mean a thing. Mike Bibby does a terrific job for us, the Sacramento Kings, and that's what is important IMHO.

I never said rapidly declining, I said Gradual Declining huge difference between the two words. I also never said at 30 you can't play anymore, I just said once you turn 30 you pretty much go down hill from there, and some at a steeper slope than others, but you generally don't get better every year once you hit 30. You hit a peak, and for Nash that peak was last year, that is why I said he still has a couple good 16+ pts/gm, and 8+ assts/gm years left, but he wont duplicate last year is all. Regarding your opinion on who the better PG is, I will use your line: We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

[HOU CuttinoFan]

I'm late.

Not sure how this conversation became a discussion about Steve Nash, but whatever... Here's my take on Yao's contract, and really all things Rockets:

First, if you think the Rockets should have just let Yao go and not ink him to a max extension, you're crazy. There are quite a few teams out there that would have paid the max to get him, and the Rockets wanted to lock him up before he hit the free agent market. Keep in mind, he's the REASON Tracy McGrady is a Rocket. T-Mac basically forced a trade from Orlando because he saw Yao score 21 points in a one quarter against the Magic(in that 21-61 disaster of a season). If the Rockets had let him go for nothing, you can believe that Tracy would go ballistic.

Second, you guys are being too hard on Yao. He averaged 18ppg/8.5rpg/2.0bpg (on 55% shooting) in about 30 minutes per game as the second scoring option on the Rockets. He only played about 30mpg because of a combination of foul trouble, stamina, and the outstanding play of Dikembe Mutombo off the bench. Hubie mentioned on a telecast that if Yao bumped up his minutes to 35-36 per game, he'd be a 20/10 player and would certainly be viewed as a max-type player. He's gotten a lot stronger in the offseason, and most Rockets fans are expecting a very good season out of him.

For comparison's sake, he's making about the same money as Michael Redd and Pau Gasol, and signed a contract of equal worth (but with less years) as Erick Dampier. He's making quite a bit less than Jermaine O'Neal, who's arguably the most overrated big in the NBA.

Anyway, moving on from Yao's contract extension... The Rockets look to be in decent shape right now. DA's healthy, and Juwan Howard's been cleared for full contact practices. A lot of the guys like Jon Barry, Mike James, etc. are playing and working out together in Houston.

Sura's knee isn't progressing too well post-surgery. He might not be ready for training camp. Wesley's knee is doing well, he should be fine by the time camp opens. According to him, his bad knee was throwing off his shot in the playoffs. It'll be interesting to see who gets the nod as our starting SG next year. If DA's body is right, he should have an advantage, with his height and athleticism.

JVG doesn't like having so many guards on the roster... He believes that the competition will cause distractions and lead players to perform selfishly. He likes to play tight player rotations, remember. Look for the Rockets to try to pull off a 2-for-1 deal, especially if it adds some depth to the frontcourt.

I guess that's about it. No word on how Stromile Swift and his family is dealing with Katrina (he's from Louisiana, remember). Hopefully everyone's all right.

EDIT: ALSO, I think it's kind of amusing how so many people have said things like "7'6 and he can't grab 10 rebounds??"... When will people learn that at the NBA level, height has much less bearing on rebounding ability as mobility, athleticism, quickness, and technique? Didn't you guys learn anything from Sir Charles or Rodman? Or, for that matter, Shawn Bradley, Rik Smits, Manute Bol, and Mark Eaton?

Sure, in pickup basketball at the gym the tallest guy will usually get the most rebounds, but on the NBA level where 6'6 guys have 35"+ vertical leaps, mobility and quickness of the floor are generally most important when it comes to rebounding. When you're 7'4"+, generally you're not going to be the quickest, most mobile athlete on the floor (unless you're an absolute physical freak of nature like Ralph Sampson). Thus, 6'9, 6'10 guys with long arms and explosive hops will generally beat you to rebounds. That's just the way it works.

Logic, people.

 

[6th]

Nice post, HOU CuttinoFan! I wondered where you were. I think, considering Yao's minutes, he has great numbers. Could they be better? Yes, maybe. However, as you say, at 7'6" the mobility will just not be there.

Yao has improved an awful lot since coming into the NBA. In this day and age of signing avg players to big money, there is no reason to believe that Yao was overpaid. It is not like they paid him more than anyone else in the NBA...far from it. They paid him exactly what they needed to in order to keep him.

Houston will be a force in the West this year. They will not be easy to beat. Yao is a big part of that. So, pay the man.

 

[Bricklayer]

EDIT: ALSO, I think it's kind of amusing how so many people have said things like "7'6 and he can't grab 10 rebounds??"... When will people learn that at the NBA level, height has much less bearing on rebounding ability as mobility, athleticism, quickness, and technique? Didn't you guys learn anything from Sir Charles or Rodman? Or, for that matter, Shawn Bradley, Rik Smits, Manute Bol, and Mark Eaton?

Er..there's a decent point there, in particular in the Smits comparison -- Yao is just too slow an immobile to get in position for some rebounds. But your comparisons there are pretty spotty -- both Bradley and Eaton were actually very good rebounders, and pretty much exclusively because of their immense size. So was Gheorghe Muresan for that matter. And Manute's kind of a special case because he was a stick figure. And so I think the steadier point about Yao's rebounding is just that he's NOT as bad a rebounder as people make out, averaged 13.1rebs/48 last season (for comparison Brad Miller averaged 12.0rebs/48).

As an aside, Yao's per 48 numbers last year were impressive:
28.7pts (.552, .000, .783) 13.1rebs 1.2ast 0.7stl 3.1blk 3.8TO 5.8Fl

The real issue about his max contract centers around the soft or not question.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Er..there's a decent point there, in particular in the Smits comparison -- Yao is just too slow an immobile to get in position for some rebounds. But your comparisons there are pretty spotty -- both Bradley and Eaton were actually very good rebounders, and pretty much exclusively because of their immense size. So was Gheorghe Muresan for that matter. And Manute's kind of a special case because he was a stick figure. And so I think the steadier point about Yao's rebounding is just that he's NOT as bad a rebounder as people make out, averaged 13.1rebs/48 last season (for comparison Brad Miller averaged 12.0rebs/48).

As an aside, Yao's per 48 numbers last year were impressive:
28.7pts (.552, .000, .783) 13.1rebs 1.2ast 0.7stl 3.1blk 3.8TO 5.8Fl

The real issue about his max contract centers around the soft or not question.

I tend to agree although I would add a second question: Can Yao play more min AND be productive? His per 48 stats are misleading in that he has consistanly averaged 30 min per game and in the play offs was only able to extend to 33 mpg.

 

[HOU CuttinoFan]

Er..there's a decent point there, in particular in the Smits comparison -- Yao is just too slow an immobile to get in position for some rebounds. But your comparisons there are pretty spotty -- both Bradley and Eaton were actually very good rebounders, and pretty much exclusively because of their immense size. So was Gheorghe Muresan for that matter. And Manute's kind of a special case because he was a stick figure. And so I think the steadier point about Yao's rebounding is just that he's NOT as bad a rebounder as people make out, averaged 13.1rebs/48 last season (for comparison Brad Miller averaged 12.0rebs/48).

As an aside, Yao's per 48 numbers last year were impressive:
28.7pts (.552, .000, .783) 13.1rebs 1.2ast 0.7stl 3.1blk 3.8TO 5.8Fl

The real issue about his max contract centers around the soft or not question.

I think you may be mistaking Eaton and Bradley's shotblocking prowess with their rebounding ability... Now Eaton did average a career high of 11.3rpg in 1985, but that was in 34.3 minutes per game, and for his career he averaged 7.9rpg. And keep in mind, that was in an era where teams had more possessions, took more shots, which ultimately led to more rebounding opportunities.

Bradley on the other hand, in his prime, was basically the same caliber rebounder that Yao is now, his career high being 8.4rpg in 31.3mpg in 1997.

Muresan averaged 9.6rpg in 29.5mpg in 1996, but that was in his fluky 1996 season where he won most improved player... It's more than Yao's ever averaged, so I'll give you that, but I think that we can agree that none of those guys were substantially better than Yao in terms of rebounding.

Most importantly, regardless of Yao's individual numbers, the Rockets have outrebounded their opponents in each of his first 3 seasons, so it's not hurting the team at all.

Now about him being soft...

I think people need to remember that a lot of Yao's best games are against tough, physical players. I'm not sure how aware of this you guys are, since I assume you mostly only see him against the Kings and Brad Miller, who he generally doesn't play well against, but he generally doesn't back down when guys get rough with him.

He's had some great games against Shaq, a 20/20 game against Ben Wallace and the Pistons, a bunch of 25+ point performances against the Spurs, a 27/22 game against the Suns, where he absolutely shut down Amare in the 2nd half... I really don't think he's soft. Donyell Marshall said in an ESPN chat the other day that Yao was one of the toughest players he's ever had to guard, along with Shaq. He can get very physical in the low post; the problem is, refs call the charging foul on him that they allow Shaq to get away with. Also, it's worth mentioning that Yao doesn't have problems with nagging injuries that, say, Brad Miller has struggled with the last few years. He's only missed two games in his career, both last season.

Oh, and he also sets a nasty pick

I don't think Yao's problem is being soft, or that he gets intimidated. It's that he's inconsistent. Charles Barkley, one of Yao's biggest critics, has never accused Yao of being soft that I'm aware of; he just complains that he doesn't "bring it" every night. Which I think most Rockets fans will agree with. Hopefully he'll get better in this regard; we need him to if we're going to contend for a title.

Okay, rant over

 

[SacTownKid]

The amount Yao gets payed has basically nothing to do with how well/bad he plays. He is the biggest sports phenom in the world. He is a cash cow, whether he puts up 10 and 8 or 20 and 10.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think you may be mistaking Eaton and Bradley's shotblocking prowess with their rebounding ability... Now Eaton did average a career high of 11.3rpg in 1985, but that was in 34.3 minutes per game, and for his career he averaged 7.9rpg. And keep in mind, that was in an era where teams had more possessions, took more shots, which ultimately led to more rebounding opportunities.

Bradley on the other hand, in his prime, was basically the same caliber rebounder that Yao is now, his career high being 8.4rpg in 31.3mpg in 1997.

Muresan averaged 9.6rpg in 29.5mpg in 1996, but that was in his fluky 1996 season where he won most improved player... It's more than Yao's ever averaged, so I'll give you that, but I think that we can agree that none of those guys were substantially better than Yao in terms of rebounding.

For what its worth:
Mark Eaton career rebs per 48: 13.2
Shawn Bradley career rebs per 48: 12.9
Gheorghe Muresan career rebs per 48: 14.0

Yao Ming career rebs per 48: 13.2

Again, the best argument about Yao's rebounding is not that it sucks, just like all those other tall guys, but rather that it does NOT suck, just like all those other tall guys. Supersized players are never going to grab as many rebounds as everybody thinks they should on some sort of per inch scale, but many of them have been very good rebounders purely becuase their excess size and length makes up for their lack of mobility.

 

[Venom]

Yao is soft. How many other centers in the league try to take charges from PGs? It's not just soft, it's stupid. He will NEVER get that call. It is a gauranteed block every time. His contract is appropriate though.