Willie Cauley-Stein:
- Thread starter bajaden
- Start date
King Baller
All-Star
I don't get the obsession with trade ideas for Willie? The idea is to add players not keep trading them away.
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To get a potentially franchise changing player. If that trade was available and if Jackson was on the board, it would be hard for me to pass up.
If vlade is convinced Jackson will be a star sure. But if he isn't sure there isn't a good reason to. We could be trading to serviceable piece for another mclemore.
I'd do that deal in a heartbeat. Jackson is the prototype wing moving forward in today's game and has tremendous 2-way upside. Getting to restart our rebuild with him and Fox? yeah... Im in.
Even if he isn't there, I'd be happy to do the deal. Getting to walk from this draft with 2 of Fox (or Ball maybe?) Tatum or Jackson is absolutely ludicrous. I like WCS a lot, but I'd take any of the top 10 guys ahead of him in this draft.
jcassio
Starter
I also don't get the interest in trading WCS (along with one or two draft picks) to get a higher draft pick who may or may not be better than any of the pieces he was traded for. Those who are all-in on this idea seem to believe that WCS has a low ceiling but high trade value. I think he has a high ceiling, but relatively low trade value until he puts in a full season of solid basketball.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
And a year from now, or two years from now, when Willie might be an all star in the east, and Jackson is just a really good defender, do we trade him for another draft pick with potential? When does this insanity stop. When does the grass stop looking greener on the other side. You want to know why the Spurs and the Warriors and all the good teams are good? Because they don't do this.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
For me, I'm excited by the idea of pairing a Josh Jackson with WCS on the defensive end -- not giving him away. The more guys you have that can switch and defend, the better. Willie may not be blocking as many shots as we all hoped and he may be taking a longer time to learn how to defend properly at the NBA level ... but there's no mistaking his length, athleticism and abilities. The Kings have a unique player on their hands. As great a rim protector and rebounder as DeAndre Jordan is, he can't switch and defend out on the perimeter the same way Willie can. If the Kings add a couple more players with length, athleticism and an aptitude for disrupting the other team -- they might have something. I think Fox could be one of those players from the guard position.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Sure they do! Just a few years ago, the spurs traded a young likely role player for a mid lotto pick-- I think that turned out pretty well for them!
That said, I don't care for any of the WCS deals I've seen so far
Suicide King
Starter
I don't know why I keep revisting this thought process but here is my opinion anyway.
If we are looking to trade a player it should be between either vets that don't fit the plan in the next two years, or if its a youth, then you deal from the position you have more players than minutes. SG.
Even setting aside how one projects Willie's potential, we have Willie Papa and KK at the 5. KK is not likely to be re-signed if he even finishes his current contract. Leaving 2 players at the 5 going forward.
Meanwhile we are talking about playing Richardson, Bogdan, Temple, and even Buddy (PG, really?) out of position to fill holes and find them minutes. Makes no sense to me.
The reason you see WCS mentioned in a lot of trade scenarios is because other fanbases know he has potential to be special, and is already servicable going into his 3rd year. They aren't trying to do us a solid and take a "low motor, not as advertised defender" on a rookie contract off our hands as a favor.
If we are looking to trade a player it should be between either vets that don't fit the plan in the next two years, or if its a youth, then you deal from the position you have more players than minutes. SG.
Even setting aside how one projects Willie's potential, we have Willie Papa and KK at the 5. KK is not likely to be re-signed if he even finishes his current contract. Leaving 2 players at the 5 going forward.
Meanwhile we are talking about playing Richardson, Bogdan, Temple, and even Buddy (PG, really?) out of position to fill holes and find them minutes. Makes no sense to me.
The reason you see WCS mentioned in a lot of trade scenarios is because other fanbases know he has potential to be special, and is already servicable going into his 3rd year. They aren't trying to do us a solid and take a "low motor, not as advertised defender" on a rookie contract off our hands as a favor.
KingsFanGER
Starter
How do other fanbases judge the potential of Willie or any other player of the Kings? Well I assume it's by watching YT highlight vids (let's be honest only true basketball masochists manage to sit through more than a couple of Kings games over a season).
So basically I trust their opinion as much as I trust the yearly analysis of the upcoming draft class by most NBA fans on the internet.
So far the harsh reality is, that Willie hasn't met the expectation of being an upper echolon defender. Of course we can debate the reasons for this, but that alone doesn't change this simple truth.
That doesn't mean we should trade him. But it means things are not entirely rosy with regards to Willies NBA career.
Suicide King
Starter
@KingsFanGER
You focused entirely on my last paragraph without adressing the point of my post.
Stacked at SG. Thin everywhere else. So why trade anyone if not a vet that doesn't fit our long term outlook, or one of too many SG's?
And while I know your point about fans consuming Willie highlights on YT is valid, fact is fans won't be making the trades.
Just curious why vets and our plethora of SG's aren't the ones bandied about in hypothetical trades when they seem the best options, if any, from the Kings perspective.
You focused entirely on my last paragraph without adressing the point of my post.
Stacked at SG. Thin everywhere else. So why trade anyone if not a vet that doesn't fit our long term outlook, or one of too many SG's?
And while I know your point about fans consuming Willie highlights on YT is valid, fact is fans won't be making the trades.
Just curious why vets and our plethora of SG's aren't the ones bandied about in hypothetical trades when they seem the best options, if any, from the Kings perspective.
KingsFanGER
Starter
That's because it was the only thing I disgreed with and in my usual "the glass is half empty" approach I focused solely on the negative, instead of agreeing with you on the points you made beforehand.
I apologize for being a negative ass sometimes....
One thing to add: Willie may have more value than any of our guards except Hield.
Suicide King
Starter
@KingsFanGER
No worries my friend. I am actually not a happy-go-lucky kinda person, despite going by Suicide King.
I see a lot of negatives that I just don't post about because I feel negativity gets the spotlight as is in this world without my help.
You struck on a key point. Willie likely does hold more value than the majority of our guards at this time. I want to see how he looks for us going forward before I make a call on him.
I wonder if people had not expected a defensive dynamo, and just wanted to see a good player grow into a great one, if they would be willing to be more patient.
No worries my friend. I am actually not a happy-go-lucky kinda person, despite going by Suicide King.
I see a lot of negatives that I just don't post about because I feel negativity gets the spotlight as is in this world without my help.
You struck on a key point. Willie likely does hold more value than the majority of our guards at this time. I want to see how he looks for us going forward before I make a call on him.
I wonder if people had not expected a defensive dynamo, and just wanted to see a good player grow into a great one, if they would be willing to be more patient.
To be fair, there was a lot more going on in the Indiana/San Antonio trade.
Hill was heading into his fourth season and did an extension after that. The Spurs would've been forced into the luxury tax and they already had Parker as their starting PG.
The Kings have Willie for two more seasons and they still aren't sure exactly what they have in him. Also, Koufos is gone after this season and Papa is still a developmental project.
Of course it could also be that I'm just not as high on Jackson as most.
King Baller
All-Star
Ding, ding, dingI watched every minute of every game last season. I even watch the blowouts because you get to see the young players play. There were few blowouts though because Joerger and staff had the Fellas playing pretty good ball.
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King Baller
All-Star
That's because it was the only thing I disgreed with and in my usual "the glass is half empty" approach I focused solely on the negative, instead of agreeing with you on the points you made beforehand.
I apologize for being a negative ass sometimes....
One thing to add: Willie may have more value than any of our guards except Hield.
That is about to change next season.
gunks
Hall of Famer
WCS made some big strides to end the season, but something about him just irks me.
He's moved away from being a defender, and as much as I love the improved offense, it's annoying that he's really going all out to develop on that end while neglecting the traits and tool set that got him drafted by us in the first place.
And he only started rebounding because his pride got hurt by fans complaining about what a terrible rebounder he is.
Joerger can still develop him into a beast, but it seems like the coaching staff has to pull teeth to get him to do anything.
Anyways, I'm nit picking, and I wouldn't trade him away just to trade him away. He could really break out next season. His personality just bugs the crap out of me. It's very. .... millennial.
I would trade him + 10 for Jackson in a heartbeat.
He's moved away from being a defender, and as much as I love the improved offense, it's annoying that he's really going all out to develop on that end while neglecting the traits and tool set that got him drafted by us in the first place.
And he only started rebounding because his pride got hurt by fans complaining about what a terrible rebounder he is.
Joerger can still develop him into a beast, but it seems like the coaching staff has to pull teeth to get him to do anything.
Anyways, I'm nit picking, and I wouldn't trade him away just to trade him away. He could really break out next season. His personality just bugs the crap out of me. It's very. .... millennial.
I would trade him + 10 for Jackson in a heartbeat.
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Willie has started to figure out that in the NBA you have to get mean and really aggressive in order to rebound. His defense is coming along and his offense is better than anyone believed. His is a good passer and runs the floor. There are not many guys his size that can do what he does. The Kings should hang onto him.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
With moving Collins I'm coming to terms with the franchise backing WCS. To be clear I think his natural talent is there, athleticism, his playmaking/offense in general underrated, and he can definitely still be good. As long as he is here I'll hope for the best, I know most still believe he will be good, so I'll ride with it
Suicide King
Starter
Lest we forget
Hey, it beats talking about Randolph being an idiot.
Hey, it beats talking about Randolph being an idiot.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
That game was so fun.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
The dunk that got Boogie traded
LPKingsFan
All-Star
I don't care to re-visit the tired battlefields of the Boogie wars, but I will say, that game was the most fun I had attending G1C all season, and certainly was a significant turning point in my personal willingness to move on.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I believe it was Newton that said, "For every action, there is an equal reaction". In the case of Cuz being traded, the reaction seemed to be a better version of Willie. This is an important year for Willie. He needs to show that the last 20 or so games of the season wasn't an aberration. He needs to prove that he's the future starting center for the Kings. At years end, if I'm correct, he's eligible for an extension. That will be an important decision for the Kings. Willie is loaded with potential, but he has to turn that potential into tangible results.
I've been a big fan of Willie's, and I hope we see him take a giant step forward. I hope this is his break out year. For his sake, and for the Kings sake.
I've been a big fan of Willie's, and I hope we see him take a giant step forward. I hope this is his break out year. For his sake, and for the Kings sake.
Suicide King
Starter
It definitely point an exclamation mark on the thought I am sure.
jcassio
Starter
I completely agree, and love that dunk!!
Kingsfan23
All-Star
It's make or break for him. We will know what he is after this year. If he steps up as a quality starter, or falters out off the bench again.. it's a big thing for the franchise either way
Suicide King
Starter
I'm definitely pulling for him to succeed. His athleticism is so unique for a center, I think it fits well in the current NBA meta.
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