Willie Cauley-Stein: the 2018-19 Season watch
- Thread starter Ozymandias
- Start date
Ha, ha, you’re wasting your time with the charter members of the ”I Hate Willie club”. The hate is strong in those ones. It is almost personal with them. They refuse to acknowledge his contributions and focus on and exaggerate any and all shortcomings he might have. A lot of his contributions don't show up in the box score (and to be fair, many of his shortcomings don't either).
The bashing heaped on him in the Pacers game thread was ridiculous. It reminded me of a bunch of grade school bullies piling on the fat kid. I know it just killed them when he won the game with that offensive rebound and put back. The charter members start it and then others feel like they have to chime in, I don’t know, maybe peer pressure to be accepted?
Being on the east coast and still having to work for a living I didn’t watch the game live, but DVR’d it. I read the game thread next morning and was prepared to see a terrible game by Willie that evening. I have watched the game 3 times now, it was a fun game to watch with all the lead changes even though both teams and even the refs were completely discombobulated.
But, I had to wonder what game they watched? Yes, Willie had several lapses (as did everyone on both teams) and could have done a better job at times on both Turner and Sabonis. But by the game thread, you would have thought Turner and Sabonis would have each went off for 30 points and 20 rebounds. Sabonis had 6 points total on 3-7 shooting for the game in 24 minutes. Only one of those baskets came while Willie was on the floor with him. The other two baskets came against Koufus (and yes Koufus did do a good job on him).
Turner scored 14 and had 12 rebounds for the game. Sabonis scored 6 points and had 7 rebounds for the game. Neither player is a slouch. Willie had 17 points and 13 rebounds (including the game winning put back). When Willie and Sabonis were on the floor together (approximately 14 minutes) Sabonis’ line was 2 points (1-2 fg), 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 3 turnovers. Willie’s line was 6 points (3-4 fg), 4 rebounds, 3 assists, and 0 turnovers. Stats wise, I’d give the edge to WCS, but through hater’s eyes he was just terrible because Sabonis pushed him around a couple of times. Their narrative has to match their mind set.
The bashing heaped on him in the Pacers game thread was ridiculous. It reminded me of a bunch of grade school bullies piling on the fat kid. I know it just killed them when he won the game with that offensive rebound and put back. The charter members start it and then others feel like they have to chime in, I don’t know, maybe peer pressure to be accepted?
Being on the east coast and still having to work for a living I didn’t watch the game live, but DVR’d it. I read the game thread next morning and was prepared to see a terrible game by Willie that evening. I have watched the game 3 times now, it was a fun game to watch with all the lead changes even though both teams and even the refs were completely discombobulated.
But, I had to wonder what game they watched? Yes, Willie had several lapses (as did everyone on both teams) and could have done a better job at times on both Turner and Sabonis. But by the game thread, you would have thought Turner and Sabonis would have each went off for 30 points and 20 rebounds. Sabonis had 6 points total on 3-7 shooting for the game in 24 minutes. Only one of those baskets came while Willie was on the floor with him. The other two baskets came against Koufus (and yes Koufus did do a good job on him).
Turner scored 14 and had 12 rebounds for the game. Sabonis scored 6 points and had 7 rebounds for the game. Neither player is a slouch. Willie had 17 points and 13 rebounds (including the game winning put back). When Willie and Sabonis were on the floor together (approximately 14 minutes) Sabonis’ line was 2 points (1-2 fg), 4 rebounds, 3 assists and 3 turnovers. Willie’s line was 6 points (3-4 fg), 4 rebounds, 3 assists, and 0 turnovers. Stats wise, I’d give the edge to WCS, but through hater’s eyes he was just terrible because Sabonis pushed him around a couple of times. Their narrative has to match their mind set.
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A demonstration of mob mentality gone melodramatic/wrong?
I've watched Willie since the '12-'13 season, freshman year at UK, and his progress is STAGGERING since then.... Roy Hibbert was aplayer that if you looked at him from his first year at Georgetown to his All-Star season made incredible amounts of progress and Willie is in that territory and has plenty of progress still to make, Hibbert hit a wall in spectacular fashion and pretty much faceplanted shortly after his peak.
Can't get over that he is the #1 scapegoat around here... I honestly wish we had a thread documenting the scapegoat rankings, Willie would be #1 in a runaway. Willie leads the forum in being the subject of posts detached from reality, he's the only one who's rivaled Doncic in 2018.
I get that people are entitled to their opinions, but their opinions are dumb, lack perspective, and should be chastised for all to see --- for the greater good of the forum.
I've watched Willie since the '12-'13 season, freshman year at UK, and his progress is STAGGERING since then.... Roy Hibbert was aplayer that if you looked at him from his first year at Georgetown to his All-Star season made incredible amounts of progress and Willie is in that territory and has plenty of progress still to make, Hibbert hit a wall in spectacular fashion and pretty much faceplanted shortly after his peak.
Can't get over that he is the #1 scapegoat around here... I honestly wish we had a thread documenting the scapegoat rankings, Willie would be #1 in a runaway. Willie leads the forum in being the subject of posts detached from reality, he's the only one who's rivaled Doncic in 2018.
I get that people are entitled to their opinions, but their opinions are dumb, lack perspective, and should be chastised for all to see --- for the greater good of the forum.
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While I'm not inclined to be quite so scathing, I must agree that the scapegoating of Willie Cauley-Stein has begun to approach the border line of lunacy. Should he be traded (or worse yet, should the Kings allow him to walk in free agency), his loss will be felt up front in ways that Kings fans may not yet be able to recognize.
Scapegoating is an entirely misuse of the word. How can one possibly scapegoat (unfairly blaming someone for others' faults) for a record that is above .500? Makes no sense whatsoever. And who are the others that should be "blamed" for the current record? What also makes no sense is talking of people eating crow about his good performance against Phoenix of all teams, and when Phoenix was missing their top two players. Yeah, let's base our opinion on that.
Or on upcoming Cleveland for that matter. If he has a great game against Cleveland are we ready to dish out crow to the WCS unbelievers? I'll tell you what. At the end of December let's see how WCS did for the entire month. Then we can dish out the crow to the one's that deserve it, including the one's who are hip-hip hooraying after WCS's performance against Phoenix.
I'm looking forward to the WCS trade before the trade deadline. I'd say the probability is better than 50-50. I'm really hoping that there are GMs out there thinking he is a fantastic player (after this Phoenix game his value should zooooom!) and are positively mystified why someone wouldn't love the guy. I'll take my chances that unfathomable and unrecognizable harm from his absence will not occur, believing that what the Kings get in return will be a net positive going forward.
Or on upcoming Cleveland for that matter. If he has a great game against Cleveland are we ready to dish out crow to the WCS unbelievers? I'll tell you what. At the end of December let's see how WCS did for the entire month. Then we can dish out the crow to the one's that deserve it, including the one's who are hip-hip hooraying after WCS's performance against Phoenix.I'm looking forward to the WCS trade before the trade deadline. I'd say the probability is better than 50-50. I'm really hoping that there are GMs out there thinking he is a fantastic player (after this Phoenix game his value should zooooom!) and are positively mystified why someone wouldn't love the guy. I'll take my chances that unfathomable and unrecognizable harm from his absence will not occur, believing that what the Kings get in return will be a net positive going forward.
I don't agree with Carmichael Dave's take on Willie being gone next year.
The Kings have invested 4 years to develop Willie and I don't see them letting him go that easy.
Unless Vlade trades him for a high upgrade young starting Small Forward (i.e. Otto Porter or similar) before the trade deadline, I think the Kings re-signs WCS this off season. This is barring someone giving him a max contract, which I don't think will happen, I expect Willie to be a King for many more years.
I can see Willie re-signing for something along what Indiana's Miles Turner got, i.e. 4 years about $64-72 million.
The Kings have invested 4 years to develop Willie and I don't see them letting him go that easy.
Unless Vlade trades him for a high upgrade young starting Small Forward (i.e. Otto Porter or similar) before the trade deadline, I think the Kings re-signs WCS this off season. This is barring someone giving him a max contract, which I don't think will happen, I expect Willie to be a King for many more years.
I can see Willie re-signing for something along what Indiana's Miles Turner got, i.e. 4 years about $64-72 million.
All I want to see from WCS is a bit more shotblocking. His rookie year he looked like he'd be good for 1.5+ a game with starter minutes, since then it's been a regression. If he can get back to being a solid paint protector, he'd be the whole package on the defensive end.
While it would seem that a few folks have an agenda, I think some reasonable criticism is warranted. Willie has had bad moments, a few bad games, but the effort is more consistent. He also continues to improve. Ppg, fg%, and rebounds are all up from last season in similar minutes. Needs to work on those FTs, though. He's getting a bit more range on his shoot too. His post moves remain an adventure.
I don't know if he's an overpay risk with his play so far this season, and I'd certainly resign him to a reasonable deal.
While it would seem that a few folks have an agenda, I think some reasonable criticism is warranted. Willie has had bad moments, a few bad games, but the effort is more consistent. He also continues to improve. Ppg, fg%, and rebounds are all up from last season in similar minutes. Needs to work on those FTs, though. He's getting a bit more range on his shoot too. His post moves remain an adventure.
I don't know if he's an overpay risk with his play so far this season, and I'd certainly resign him to a reasonable deal.
Count me as 'on the fence' about Willie. He frustrates. He excites. He teases with his potential.
I don't understand the hate for him on this board. But I myself have probably appeared to be a Willie hater at times.
He has been more consistent this year, but now he can no longer block shots or hit free throws.
And he continues to be a disappointing rebounder.
But as Baja has pointed out many times, Willie helps the team defensively in ways that don't 'show' in the box score.
And with the pace success we've had this year, I'm not sure Willie is as replaceable as some here seem to think.
I don't understand the hate for him on this board. But I myself have probably appeared to be a Willie hater at times.
He has been more consistent this year, but now he can no longer block shots or hit free throws.
And he continues to be a disappointing rebounder.
But as Baja has pointed out many times, Willie helps the team defensively in ways that don't 'show' in the box score.
And with the pace success we've had this year, I'm not sure Willie is as replaceable as some here seem to think.
Serviceability in the paint
Looking forward to the day where there are no questions about how we have to deal with opposing bruising centers, team rebounding and rim protection. And when he’s not giving up a lot at the rim statistically.
Not saying that it’s still not a possibility, but time running out for him to show this consistency
Looking forward to the day where there are no questions about how we have to deal with opposing bruising centers, team rebounding and rim protection. And when he’s not giving up a lot at the rim statistically.
Not saying that it’s still not a possibility, but time running out for him to show this consistency
It’s a tough call. Can we pay our 4th or 5th best player (by the end of next year) 18 mil a year? On the other hand, he has improved every year, still hasn’t reached his prime and seems to have chemistry with his teammates. I lean towards paying him because we still don’t know what we have in Giles and I think he could be moved later considering his age and fit in the current NBA.
To me it's about fit going forward and if he's a good fit next to Fox/Bagley (everyone is a good fit with Buddy/Bogie) I'm not sure you can pay anymore than like 10-11million (Julius Randle/Harrell make 9/6million respectively and both are probably as good if not better than WCS) for WCS and for the most part he's played well and deserves to be paid but it's a mistake overpaying for a skill-set that Bagley has, I've said before I would rather give money to Nikola Vucevic (would not give him anything over 15mil0 than WCS unless he starts blocking shots at like a Myles Turner rate.
Has it really worked out that well for any team giving huge money to starting level player over anything more than a season other than Mike Conley? The Batum/Porter/Crabbe/Tyler Johnson/Parsons (injuries)/Wiggins/Ryan Anderson/Noah/Matthews/Our former friend George Hill/Bazemore/Biyombo contracts all currently look like disasters for the teams that paid them with minimal success.
Has it really worked out that well for any team giving huge money to starting level player over anything more than a season other than Mike Conley? The Batum/Porter/Crabbe/Tyler Johnson/Parsons (injuries)/Wiggins/Ryan Anderson/Noah/Matthews/Our former friend George Hill/Bazemore/Biyombo contracts all currently look like disasters for the teams that paid them with minimal success.
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it's ok if it's virtual bullying. No one really gets hurt.
No, really I am kidding but, he is a professional athlete he is out there and that's part of the job. He or any of the rest of them can do something else. Besides what else are we going to talk about after a bad performance? How great they are? Naaa, I prefer to be a negative fan.
No, really I am kidding but, he is a professional athlete he is out there and that's part of the job. He or any of the rest of them can do something else. Besides what else are we going to talk about after a bad performance? How great they are? Naaa, I prefer to be a negative fan.
You know it is possible to have a balanced view here of what Willie is vs. what we think he should be.
The so called WCS hate is because people have seen what he can be, but he just doesn’t do it often enough and his comments prove what they eye test shows us. Even his response about the game winner. He went after just in case. That’s a strange mind set to have. It says he contemplated not going after it.
The so called WCS hate is because people have seen what he can be, but he just doesn’t do it often enough and his comments prove what they eye test shows us. Even his response about the game winner. He went after just in case. That’s a strange mind set to have. It says he contemplated not going after it.
it's ok if it's virtual bullying. No one really gets hurt.
No, really I am kidding but, he is a professional athlete he is out there and that's part of the job. He or any of the rest of them can do something else. Besides what else are we going to talk about after a bad performance? How great they are? Naaa, I prefer to be a negative fan.
No, really I am kidding but, he is a professional athlete he is out there and that's part of the job. He or any of the rest of them can do something else. Besides what else are we going to talk about after a bad performance? How great they are? Naaa, I prefer to be a negative fan.