Will the Kings have a consistent rotation this season?

[King Baller]

I got this idea from over at RealGM (I know

One of the things I loved about the Adelman coached team was the consistent rotations. The last few years the Kings have not had consistent rotations either due to coaching or the players.

Here is what Jimmer said:

"We didn't know what the rotation was (last season)," Fredette said. "Guys didn't know if they were going to play one game and not the next so you just had to try to stay ready and prepare as much as you can. It's hard for players to be able to do that but you're professionals so that's what you have to do."

Here is the link--> http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...te-Hoping-Kings-Will-Have-Consistent-Rotation

KB

 

[bajaden]

I got this idea from over at RealGM (I know

One of the things I loved about the Adelman coached team was the consistent rotations. The last few years the Kings have not had consistent rotations either due to coaching or the players.

Here is what Jimmer said:

"We didn't know what the rotation was (last season)," Fredette said. "Guys didn't know if they were going to play one game and not the next so you just had to try to stay ready and prepare as much as you can. It's hard for players to be able to do that but you're professionals so that's what you have to do."

Here is the link--> http://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...te-Hoping-Kings-Will-Have-Consistent-Rotation

KB

I don't think the inconsistent rotations had anything to do with the players, and had everything to do with the coaches. The irony of Adelman, was that he was so rigid in his rotations, he had fans upset that he wouldn't play fan favorites unless there was an injury. Gerald Wallace springs to mind. I can remember the whole arena chanting "Wallace", "Wallace", "Wallace", and the Kings were up by 20 something with a minute thirty left, and he wouldn't put him into the game. However, I'll take that over what we've had to put up with the last 5 or 6 years.

It will be interesting to see what kind of rotation Malone goes with. Most coaches go with either a 8 or 9 man rotation. Some will use a 10 man rotation. Of course it all depends on the talent you have and how top heavy it is.

 

[The_Jamal]

I don't think the inconsistent rotations had anything to do with the players, and had everything to do with the coaches. The irony of Adelman, was that he was so rigid in his rotations, he had fans upset that he wouldn't play fan favorites unless there was an injury. Gerald Wallace springs to mind. I can remember the whole arena chanting "Wallace", "Wallace", "Wallace", and the Kings were up by 20 something with a minute thirty left, and he wouldn't put him into the game. However, I'll take that over what we've had to put up with the last 5 or 6 years.

It will be interesting to see what kind of rotation Malone goes with. Most coaches go with either a 8 or 9 man rotation. Some will use a 10 man rotation. Of course it all depends on the talent you have and how top heavy it is.

Our squad HAS to use our depth to get wins next season. Outside of Cousins, there isn't much difference from the starting 1-4 to the bench 1-4. I expect our bench to be a big part of next season

 

[Bricklayer]

Our squad HAS to use our depth to get wins next season. Outside of Cousins, there isn't much difference from the starting 1-4 to the bench 1-4. I expect our bench to be a big part of next season

That argument is ofttimes used, not just here, but I'm not sure of its validity. If players 2-5 amongst the starters are not too far off players 6-9 amongst the reserves, then what would be the advantage of playing players 6-9 over players 2-5 if they are all roughly equal?

Nonetheless that is our team structure, and so much as I think solid rotations, 8 guys in, 4 guys out would benefit us immensely, instability is kind of baked into the roster at this point unless Malone is a VERY dedicated short rotation guy, and that we don't know. The real answer to this question is basically that's its impossible to know until we see Malone coach. Give Pat Riley (notorious short rotation guy) this roster and the minutes distribution is wildly different than if you give the same roster to Nellie. Where Malone falls its of course impossible to know.

 

[upinsmoke]

I still think we're at least one trade away from having a roster that makes sense. I'll focus on the frontcourt, I think a package of JT & Patterson can get Houston to loosen the screws on Asik because they have Camby on contract to back up Howard. As of right now Houston's depending on T. Jones and montiejunas to play the 4 and imo that won't get it done in the west and playing both Howard and Asik would clog the paint for their guards.

This would be a huge step in the right direction for us both big picture and short term.
5.Asik/Hayes
4.CUZ/Landry
3.Moute/Salmons (expiring)
2.MT/M16
1.tbd?

 

[Spike]

Except that when Asik/Cousins are on the bench, you've not nothing in the frontcourt size-wise. Otherwise, I agree with the premise, and if it could be done without losing JT, then it would be a good thing.

 

[The_Jamal]

That argument is ofttimes used, not just here, but I'm not sure of its validity. If players 2-5 amongst the starters are not too far off players 6-9 amongst the reserves, then what would be the advantage of playing players 6-9 over players 2-5 if they are all roughly equal?

Nonetheless that is our team structure, and so much as I think solid rotations, 8 guys in, 4 guys out would benefit us immensely, instability is kind of baked into the roster at this point unless Malone is a VERY dedicated short rotation guy, and that we don't know. The real answer to this question is basically that's its impossible to know until we see Malone coach. Give Pat Riley (notorious short rotation guy) this roster and the minutes distribution is wildly different than if you give the same roster to Nellie. Where Malone falls its of course impossible to know.

Well, mainly dictating that our "advantage" this season comes with our bench depth. The times in the game where bench guys mainly go VS bench guys. IT-McLemore-Salmons-Landry-JT (just my guess at bench) should be able to outplay just about any other bench rotation in the league. Where we lack the top-end talent, we do have 10 guys who could contribute to just about any rotation in the league.

 

[jcwkings]

We had inconsistent rotations last year because the team was garbage, you can't blame the coaches for trying to find the right mix to get wins. If the team was winning and rotations were a mess, then ok you can blast the coaches, but if the team stinks and you keep seeing the same 8 players you would be calling for the coaches head in an instant. Malone is a new coach so i expect he will experiment as well, especially early in the season.

 

[sdballer]

W

We had inconsistent rotations last year because the team was garbage, you can't blame the coaches for trying to find the right mix to get wins. If the team was winning and rotations were a mess, then ok you can blast the coaches, but if the team stinks and you keep seeing the same 8 players you would be calling for the coaches head in an instant. Malone is a new coach so i expect he will experiment as well, especially early in the season.

A certain amount of adjustments are expected. What we saw last year was a poor coach in over his head and scrambling. You can certainly blame smart for his rotations and role issues. Not the only reason we lost but it made a poorly constructed team much worse.

 

[bajaden]

We had inconsistent rotations last year because the team was garbage, you can't blame the coaches for trying to find the right mix to get wins. If the team was winning and rotations were a mess, then ok you can blast the coaches, but if the team stinks and you keep seeing the same 8 players you would be calling for the coaches head in an instant. Malone is a new coach so i expect he will experiment as well, especially early in the season.

The team was not garbage. Cousins isn't garbage! Evans isn't garbage! I. Thomas isn't garbage! Jason Thompson isn't garbage! Thornton isn't garbage! And I could add more. But they played like garbage!!!! That's on the coach, period!! If not, then just what the hell do you need him for? Its his stinking job to get the best out of his players, and he didn't just come up short, he failed miserably. I've been watching professional basketball for over 5o years, and last season was one of the worse coached seasons of basketball I've ever seen. No one knew what their role was, and when they might play, and for how long.

You can do what Smart did with a bunch of experienced players, but you can't do it with a young team. The way he ran the team won't win with either, but you'll be better with experienced players. All I saw last season was five players on the floor all doing their own thing. You have to have a system in place and the discipline to run that system. If you don't, and you can't, then your not coaching material, because that's what good coaches do.

 

[VF21]

I got this idea from over at RealGM (I know

...Here is what Jimmer said:

"We didn't know what the rotation was (last season)," Fredette said. "Guys didn't know if they were going to play one game and not the next so you just had to try to stay ready and prepare as much as you can. It's hard for players to be able to do that but you're professionals so that's what you have to do."...

If Jimmer, one of the nicest guys on the planet, said that I can only imagine what some of the others have said. Pretty tactful way of saying Smart had his head so far up his ... he couldn't even remember what daylight looked like.

This year has to be better for the simple reason even my cat could have utilized the roster better than Smart did.

 

[Warhawk]

If Jimmer, one of the nicest guys on the planet, said that I can only imagine what some of the others have said. Pretty tactful way of saying Smart had his head so far up his ... he couldn't even remember what daylight looked like.

This year has to be better for the simple reason even my cat could have utilized the roster better than Smart did.

That may be the case, but we all know your cat isn't very good with plays out of timeouts. Big black mark on the resume.

 

[mac]

If Jimmer, one of the nicest guys on the planet, said that I can only imagine what some of the others have said. Pretty tactful way of saying Smart had his head so far up his ... he couldn't even remember what daylight looked like.

This year has to be better for the simple reason even my cat could have utilized the roster better than Smart did.

Worth noting that Evans told NO reporters that Westphal was the best coach he's had in the league thus far. Kinda shows you just how bad Smart was.

 

[The_Jamal]

If Jimmer, one of the nicest guys on the planet, said that I can only imagine what some of the others have said. Pretty tactful way of saying Smart had his head so far up his ... he couldn't even remember what daylight looked like.

This year has to be better for the simple reason even my cat could have utilized the roster better than Smart did.

I'd argue Jimmer was jerked around more than anyone on the team last season. Guy would get 15 minutes one game, sit out the next 3, play 5 MPG the next game, enter the game for the 1st time in the 4th quarter while finishing out the game and rinse and repeat. Dirty shame too. He started finding a niche for himself the first 2 months of the season, putting up really good efficiency/scoring numbers for his minutes and then his confidence just took a nosedive the rest of the season.

 

[dude12]

Worth noting that Evans told NO reporters that Westphal was the best coach he's had in the league thus far. Kinda shows you just how bad Smart was.

The sad part of that is that Westphal has been his best coach in the league so far.

 

[bajaden]

Worth noting that Evans told NO reporters that Westphal was the best coach he's had in the league thus far. Kinda shows you just how bad Smart was.

Not surprised by that comment. Westphal, for the most part, gave Tyreke carte blanche to do whatever he wanted. It made Tyreke happy, and for a while, the fans happy (he won ROY), but in the long term, it probably hurt Tyreke's career. A coach like Adelman would have demanded more discipline out of Tyreke. And to be honest, I doubt he would have won ROY if Adelman was the coach. Of course none of that is Tyreke's fault. It was like offering cotton candy to a kid. What would you expect him to do?

As to your premise, your right on! As bad as Westphal was, Smart was far worse. His only plus, was that he got along with Cousins, until Cousins saw the capital letters, BS on his back. Downhill after that.

 

[bajaden]

I'd argue Jimmer was jerked around more than anyone on the team last season. Guy would get 15 minutes one game, sit out the next 3, play 5 MPG the next game, enter the game for the 1st time in the 4th quarter while finishing out the game and rinse and repeat. Dirty shame too. He started finding a niche for himself the first 2 months of the season, putting up really good efficiency/scoring numbers for his minutes and then his confidence just took a nosedive the rest of the season.

Your probably right, although overall, I feel more for JT. He's been jerked around more than any player on the team. I've lost count of how many head coaches he's had since he was drafted. The fact that he has survived through it all, and actually improved in the process, says a lot about his determination. He was never going to be a star, but think how much better he might have been if he had been under Pop's, and the player development system the Spurs have in place. However, I do feel empathy for Jimmer. I still think he can be a contributing player if used properly.

 

[HndsmCelt]

To me it seemed that the coaching staff never got a good read on our players capabilities. So the constant line up changes and rotation changes were reactions to reassessments of players performance level. Some of this is to be expected with a lot of young players, and new coaches. As pointed out by other posters when many of the players fail to stand out you just keep stiring up different batches of mediocre stew. So what will be different this time? That is hard to say. Maybe Malone will use metrics to create hard number rankings and optimal rotations. Maybe he will SEE something different in the players than the last few coaches have an create a nice sensible rotation.

 

[mac]

To me it seemed that the coaching staff never got a good read on our players capabilities. So the constant line up changes and rotation changes were reactions to reassessments of players performance level. Some of this is to be expected with a lot of young players, and new coaches. As pointed out by other posters when many of the players fail to stand out you just keep stiring up different batches of mediocre stew. So what will be different this time? That is hard to say. Maybe Malone will use metrics to create hard number rankings and optimal rotations. Maybe he will SEE something different in the players than the last few coaches have an create a nice sensible rotation.

Or maybe, just maybe, he'll have the guts to stick with a lineup, let them build some consistency and actually COACH them to play better instead of just stirring the pot over and over again.

 

[King Baller]

Or maybe, just maybe, he'll have the guts to stick with a lineup, let them build some consistency and actually COACH them to play better instead of just stirring the pot over and over again.

It would be great if Coach Malone stuck with a 9 man crew! I noticed a comment made by Coach Malone that Thornton reminds the staff of Vinnie "The Microwave" Johnson. Vinnie supplied heat off of the bench for the "Bad Boy" Detroit Pistons back in the day. Is this a precursor of things to come?

KB

 

[blackice]

It might be tough to get a consistent rotation with the current roster due to too many players we have at the 4 spot. Also interested to see if McCallum will get any burn...we all ready have IT and Greivis, might be a year for Ray to sit back and watch from the bench and see what we do with the other two PGs.

 

[Kingster]

That argument is ofttimes used, not just here, but I'm not sure of its validity. If players 2-5 amongst the starters are not too far off players 6-9 amongst the reserves, then what would be the advantage of playing players 6-9 over players 2-5 if they are all roughly equal?

Nonetheless that is our team structure, and so much as I think solid rotations, 8 guys in, 4 guys out would benefit us immensely, instability is kind of baked into the roster at this point unless Malone is a VERY dedicated short rotation guy, and that we don't know. The real answer to this question is basically that's its impossible to know until we see Malone coach. Give Pat Riley (notorious short rotation guy) this roster and the minutes distribution is wildly different than if you give the same roster to Nellie. Where Malone falls its of course impossible to know.

The players may be roughly equal in overall ability, but not in the distinct abilities they bring to the game. That's why matchups count and why certain players with overall equal ability may be more or less useful, depending on the matchup on the floor

I expect Malone to play the matchup game because he just doesn't have much choice in the matter.

 

[Livinthedream]

The problem Smart had was he had a ton of young players who needed time on the court for them to develop, or for coaches to determine if they can actually play in this league. Smart was busy trying to just win an extra game or two to hold off the critics and maybe save his job. So he kept tinkering and letting other teams dictate his line-up , versus coaching the team. There was nothing to stop him from tinkering because all the players seemed to essentially have the same ability level. At least no player was able separate themselves significantly on the court.

Coach Malone will have the luxury of an owner who is saying he doesn't care about the wins and losses this year. Vivek wants the culture and team fixed. This will allow Malone to go out and have a set rotation. Again, that equal skill level and young player issue will come up and some players will not see the floor even though they may or may not be as good as the next guy. Wouldn't be such an issue if we hadn't missed on our last few draft choices.

 

[King Baller]

Thank you, thank you, thank you Coach Malone and crew!!! Two preseason games done and we have seen 10 man rotations!!! Yes the players have been different but that is to be expected early in preseason as it is a time of player evaluation. The guys have played long enough to get warmed up and the reserves come in at the right times. Most importantly the starters come back in at the right time!!!

This is a sign that this coaching staff led by Coach Malone knows what they are doing.

Thank you,
KB

 

[bajaden]

To me it seemed that the coaching staff never got a good read on our players capabilities. So the constant line up changes and rotation changes were reactions to reassessments of players performance level. Some of this is to be expected with a lot of young players, and new coaches. As pointed out by other posters when many of the players fail to stand out you just keep stiring up different batches of mediocre stew. So what will be different this time? That is hard to say. Maybe Malone will use metrics to create hard number rankings and optimal rotations. Maybe he will SEE something different in the players than the last few coaches have an create a nice sensible rotation.

I look at a head coach metaphorically as a chef preparing food. He has all the ingredients on the counter, and he can just throw them all into a pot and create a dish that's uneatable, or he can carefully pick and choose the exact right ingredients and produce a winning dish. My point is, Smart had more than enough time to get a so called read on the players. His problem is that he didn't know how to cook. Like a chef, a coach has to know from the start what he's trying to create, and whether he has all the right ingredients with which to create it.

I'm not sure that Smart ever knew for sure what he was trying to build, much less if he had all the right parts to begin with. I will say this. The ingredients he had to work with would have been a challenge for any of the contestants on Masterchef. However, that is the challenge isn't it. That's what separates those that can from those that can't. A good chef will still create something that tastes good, and a bad chef simply has no clue! OK, I'm done boring you with my metaphors!

 

[pshn80]

You know the rule - once a great thinker reaches age 70 he is allowed twice as many metaphors. We are but vessels awaiting another.

 

[VF21]

..I'm not sure that Smart ever knew for sure what he was trying to build, much less if he had all the right parts to begin with. I will say this. The ingredients he had to work with would have been a challenge for any of the contestants on Masterchef. However, that is the challenge isn't it. That's what separates those that can from those that can't. A good chef will still create something that tastes good, and a bad chef simply has no clue! OK, I'm done boring you with my metaphors!

If a 9-year-old and 12-year-old can make Gordon Ramsay's signature Beef Wellington, Smart should have been able to come up with SOMETHING better than what we saw for the past couple of seasons.

 

[Glenn]

You know the rule - once a great thinker reaches age 70 he is allowed twice as many metaphors. We are but vessels awaiting another.

I guess I have a little ways to go.

 

[HndsmCelt]

It seems that an opportunity was lost to redux Iron Chef as a process to hire our coach.

 

[bajaden]

If a 9-year-old and 12-year-old can make Gordon Ramsay's signature Beef Wellington, Smart should have been able to come up with SOMETHING better than what we saw for the past couple of seasons.

I always fancied myself a pretty good cook until I watched a bunch of little kids create dishes I'd never dream of tackling. Pretty incredible!..