Glenn
Hall of Famer
No. We let him go. I'm willing to wait until next season.
Why hasn't our perimeter defense improved one bit this season?
- Thread starter GoSACtown
- Start date
No. We let him go. I'm willing to wait until next season.
ParniValjak
All-Star
Nah, he signed as a free agent with the Warriors.
I used Mbah a Moute and Douglas as examples of good defensive players that would improve our perimeter D if they were on the roster and playing decent minutes. Fact remains, to be a good defensive team, we need good defensive players on the roster!
It's been a rude awakening for many fans that thoughts Malone could turn it around all by himself. I think he probably has good defensive coaching instincts. Hope they can provide him with better tools.
Gary
All-Star
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
So sorry for your delusion. It really has been painful to deal with.
As an aside, drtng is a fools stat because it tracks team as much as individual, but it somewhat works intra-team.
Last year the DRtngs of our guards (low is good):
Thomas 115
Fredette 115
Salmons 115
Thornton 114
Brooks 114
Evans 111 <------------
Douglas 108
This year New Orleans guards:
Morrow 111
Rivers 111
Gordon 110
Holiday 109
Evans 106 <---------------
odd how that keeps happening.
As a rookie
Beno 112
Martin 112
Cisco 111
Temple 111
Roidriguez 110
Evans 110 <---------------
Udoka 109
Strange. I'm sure its just coincidence.
Chubbs
Starter
From the pages of ESPN re: Kings Defense and their ranking in the west.
"14. Sacramento Kings
Sacramento hired a defense-first hard-liner as the team's new head coach, and, wouldn't you know it, the team's defense is terrible for what feels like the millionth straight season. Sacramento ranks 28th in points allowed per 100 possessions and remains an abysmal transition-defense team; the Kings allow nearly 1.3 points per possession on transition chances, the second-worst mark in the league, per Synergy Sports.1 The Kings ranked 29th by this measure last season, though they've done a bit better this time around in at least cutting down the raw number of opposing fast-break chances.
They remain a mess in the half court, too. Opposing guards can get wherever they'd like to go on the pick-and-roll — namely, to the middle of the floor — and DeMarcus Cousins is still a lurching, reaching, and sometimes lazy mess both against the pick-and-roll and in rotating over to protect the rim. (He's a huge culprit in their bad transition defense, too.) The Kings attack the pick-and-roll pretty aggressively, with their bigs (especially Jason Thompson, who just hasn't developed at all) jumping about above the 3-point arc to contain ball handlers; they just can't execute the scheme.
Mike Malone called out his team's defense in jarring terms over the weekend, and he's not wrong. Look: Cousins has been much better this season. He's a legitimate star on offense now; he's shooting fewer midrange jumpers, hitting more of his shots overall, drawing constant double-teams, and doing a decent job protecting the rock. He is an absolute load in the post.2 But it's very hard to build a competent NBA defense with Cousins in the middle, without a rim protector at the other big-man spot and with average or worse defenders dotting the perimeter.
This is still a roster in flux, at least to some degree. Malone is still trying to find the right mix after the Rudy Gay and Derrick Williams trades, which decimated the team's depth at multiple positions and left a ton of bigger wings on the roster. He's playing Travis Outlaw at three positions, using Jimmer Fredette (a sieve) at backup point guard, and trying to balance minutes for Thompson and Williams at power forward. This is a work in progress, and the Kings may not be done trading. "We've increased our talent level," says Pete D'Alessandro, the team's new GM. "But I don't think we've put together a team at this point."
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10188644/the-status-nba-western-conference-teams
Thoughts?
"14. Sacramento Kings
Sacramento hired a defense-first hard-liner as the team's new head coach, and, wouldn't you know it, the team's defense is terrible for what feels like the millionth straight season. Sacramento ranks 28th in points allowed per 100 possessions and remains an abysmal transition-defense team; the Kings allow nearly 1.3 points per possession on transition chances, the second-worst mark in the league, per Synergy Sports.1 The Kings ranked 29th by this measure last season, though they've done a bit better this time around in at least cutting down the raw number of opposing fast-break chances.
They remain a mess in the half court, too. Opposing guards can get wherever they'd like to go on the pick-and-roll — namely, to the middle of the floor — and DeMarcus Cousins is still a lurching, reaching, and sometimes lazy mess both against the pick-and-roll and in rotating over to protect the rim. (He's a huge culprit in their bad transition defense, too.) The Kings attack the pick-and-roll pretty aggressively, with their bigs (especially Jason Thompson, who just hasn't developed at all) jumping about above the 3-point arc to contain ball handlers; they just can't execute the scheme.
Mike Malone called out his team's defense in jarring terms over the weekend, and he's not wrong. Look: Cousins has been much better this season. He's a legitimate star on offense now; he's shooting fewer midrange jumpers, hitting more of his shots overall, drawing constant double-teams, and doing a decent job protecting the rock. He is an absolute load in the post.2 But it's very hard to build a competent NBA defense with Cousins in the middle, without a rim protector at the other big-man spot and with average or worse defenders dotting the perimeter.
This is still a roster in flux, at least to some degree. Malone is still trying to find the right mix after the Rudy Gay and Derrick Williams trades, which decimated the team's depth at multiple positions and left a ton of bigger wings on the roster. He's playing Travis Outlaw at three positions, using Jimmer Fredette (a sieve) at backup point guard, and trying to balance minutes for Thompson and Williams at power forward. This is a work in progress, and the Kings may not be done trading. "We've increased our talent level," says Pete D'Alessandro, the team's new GM. "But I don't think we've put together a team at this point."
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10188644/the-status-nba-western-conference-teams
Thoughts?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Zach Lowe isn't going to be able to be fair to DeMarcus for a minimum of at least two years, because Zach has an ego, he was wrong, and he got burned. I suspect he'll do the intelligent walkback, hedge for a bit, announce signs of improvement so that he Zach can claim to have seen it coming, write an article in a couple of years about how Cousins really WAS crap, but should be commended for shaping up and doing the things Zach asked him to do to improve. In the meantime I wish he would shut the hell up, because I'm not interested in his sad little blogger ego running down our franchise player because he doesn't have the guts to nut up and say he was wrong.
In any case, the rest of it is more or less accurate, and not really anything we didn't know. We've needed a shotblocker forever, its the perfect complement to Cousins, and we have been saying that for years. You can't coach defense without at least a core of good defensive players. I've been warning of that since this summer. PDA, not Malone, really holds the key to this team significantly improving defensively.
Hadlowe
Starter
Not disagreeing with any particular thing you said here, but drtg, especially off basketball-reference is a problematic stat. It heavily weights defensive rebounding, meaning an average to below average defender like Kevin Love can have a defensive rating of 102 (Tyson Chandler/Serge Ibaka territory) despite what any observer of his game will tell you about his defense. This year, Jimmer has the lowest drtg of the guards on our team, but much of that is due to the fact that he's averaging 5.5 rebounds per 36 right now. He's still not a good defender, just a less awful rebounder.
Defensive rebounding is not nothing, as it is the only way to end an offensive possession, but it also doesn't tell you anything about how the possession ended up in a miss. Evans is a very good rebounding guard, so it makes sense that his drtg would be lower than the other folks on his teams.
Defensive stats are largely nonsense. There's just no way to quantify fighting through screens. That's why we still have athletic measurements to determine capability and eyeballs to determine where the breakdowns on defense come from.
All that just to say yes, Tyreke would be head and shoulders the best defensive guard on the team (did you see what I did there?)
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I have this silly way of judging a teams defense. I write what my eyes tell me, not what some stat sheet tells me. Sometimes the two are compatible, sometimes not. I will say this though. If you eyes tell you someone is playing good defense, then usually the stats will verify that. However, the reverse isn't always true.
I have watched IT play for a long time and drove past the Tacoma Dome twice last week and have done some thinking about him. He is very unconventional in his approach to the game, compensating for his size by taking chances on defense, stealing the ball from big men and blocking shots way more than he should including blocks on two 7 foot players this season. His offense includes a whole array of scoop shots, shooting off the wrong foot and up and unders. Expecting him to play like other players results in nothing but frustration. That is why some fans can't stand him. That is why I love to watch him play.
IT has the quickness to stay with anyone. His vertical leap is off the charts. If his defense is sub-standard it is related to team defense. I am not sure what Malone really wants him to do on defense. Few point guards in the league always stay in front of their opponents. IT has matched up favorably with early draft picks the whole time he has been in the league. For those IT haters out there, try watching him play with an open mind. He is an effective but non-typical player.
IT has the quickness to stay with anyone. His vertical leap is off the charts. If his defense is sub-standard it is related to team defense. I am not sure what Malone really wants him to do on defense. Few point guards in the league always stay in front of their opponents. IT has matched up favorably with early draft picks the whole time he has been in the league. For those IT haters out there, try watching him play with an open mind. He is an effective but non-typical player.
Padrino
All-Star
it is also related to his size. i have no idea why IT's most fervent supporters so often refuse to acknowledge this. damn near all of the league's point guards shoot over him with ease, due to his diminutive stature. and a great many of the league's point guards blow by him with ease, in spite of his quickness. he also has considerable difficulty fighting through screens, and i tend to question his effort and commitment on that side of the ball. his defense is sub-standard. no "if"s there at all. and while his poor defensive play is, indeed, exacerbated by poor team defense, it is still hardly a stretch to call isaiah thomas an utter liability on the defensive end...
of course, he's an extremely gifted offensive talent. no if's there at all, either. i don't contest any of the points you made regarding his skill set. but simply excusing his defensive limitations and lack of effort on that end of the floor as a byproduct of the fact that "few point guards in the league always stay in front of their opponents" is, in my opinion, a terribly weak arguing position. my parents used to call it the "everybody else is doing it!!" excuse, and they never let me get away with it. here's the deal: given demarcus cousins' lack of upward explosion and his limited lateral mobility, as well as his designation as the franchise cornerstone, there's no useful argument to be generated from "well, demarcus isn't a good defender, either," as many who are firmly planted in the pizza guy's corner are quick to point out. DMC is a beast and he's here to stay, defensive pockmarks and all...
that said, the kings really do require a starting PG who can help to compensate for some of cousins' weaknesses. such a PG needn't "always stay in front of their opponents," but such a PG should be defensively competent enough to occasionally deny dribble penetration, occasionally contest three-point shots, and occasionally fight through screens. the first point of attack can't continue to collapse with as much frequency as we've seen all season, with both greivis vasquez and isaiah thomas sharing culpability at the kings' starting PG position. personally, i welcome the notion of thomas being re-signed as the kings' long term sixth man, provided it isn't an unwieldy contract. he's tailor-made for such a role, he thrives in it, and he should be returned to it expediently. now it's up to PDA to work some magic on that front...
Stats like Drtg are almost always wrong. I just have an inherent problem with any stat that says Kyle Korver was an elite defender the whole year.
Even Synergy stats or 82games or the NBA.com stuff need to be taken with a grain of salt. Those are decent for a generic overlook, But even those are predicated on who you're playing with and mainly if you have a dominant defensive big playing behind you. Of course Tyreke's defensive numbers have improved. He's playing behind Anthony Davis and a much better Hornet defense. Throw Anthony Davis behind Ben and IT and they don't look like the worst defensive pairing in the league anymore
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I obviously don't disagree, as I have a problem with most "advanced" stats.
HOWEVER, I was quite explicit in my usage there. I compared Tyreke to his own teammates each year, and ditto for IT. Hence no different systems, no shotblocker vs. non-shotblocker etc. Basically every single year except the year that idiot Smart threw him out at SF Tyreke's Drtng was the best on his teams' amongst all HIS OWN team's guards. That includes this year. That still leaves Drtng as one more fuzzy lumped together advanced stat, but at least at that point its comparing oranges to oranges.
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