Why can't the Kings learn the pick-and-roll OR throw an entry pass?

[IfAt1st]

Are those advanced concepts that take elite coaches to get a team to understand?

I see teams throw entry passes to their big guys all the time against us. If the big guy feels good about his position, he makes his move. If he doesn't, he kicks it backs out, resets, then they throw it back into him and he makes his move the 2nd time.

Don't we have 4 guys that can regularly get post position against their guy and make moves?
(DMC, Dalembert, Landry, and Reke)

You can count the number of entry passes the Kings attempt each game on one hand.
It's like they've already given up on the play because of how well the other teams defend it (or how inept we are at it, I can't tell).

On the other hand, we can't run a pick and roll to save our lives and we can't defend against it either.

Are these magic concepts that special coaches possess, or are all our players incapable of learning these skills?

Some help understanding our ineptitude at these 2 areas of basketball would be illuminating....

TIA

 

[Showtime]

I'm so sick of this franchises aversion to low post play. It doesn't seem to matter what coach has the chair, if GP and Coachie is around, they could have a prime Shaq being guarded by Muggsy Bogues and ignore him all night long. Tonight, we saw Cousins who had a clear advantage over Frye in the low block, however they ignored him play after play after play and jacked up ill advised jumpers or watched Evans attempt yet another dribble drive. GTFO Kings, I'm really starting to wonder WTF is the real issue here.

 

[King Baller]

I kept waiting for the entry passes tonight. I thought Cousins, Landry and Tyreke all had an advantage down low.

The one time Cousins scored down low Walton commented that the Kings should run that same play until the Suns stop it. What happened is Cousins did not touch the ball for the next 5 possessions and then coach called him to the bench.

Why there were so few attempts to post up I cannot explain???

KB

 

[Showtime]

I kept waiting for the entry passes tonight. I thought Cousins, Landry and Tyreke all had an advantage down low.

The one time Cousins scored down low Walton commented that the Kings should run that same play until the Suns stop it. What happened is Cousins did not touch the ball for the next 5 possessions and then coach called him to the bench.

Why there were so few attempts to post up I cannot explain???

KB

I thought the entire purpose of getting an athletic, big, physical team was to exploit that advantage? What's the point of having a team like that when you aren't going to run them like that? Cousins was ignored, and did we see Evans post up at all? What happened to that? He used to post semi-regularly last season. He's got that advantage all night long over the suns, and yet I don't remember seeing them look to post him once. He doesn't always have to create off the dribble every single possession. Let him work without the ball.

 

[gunks]

I'm so sick of this franchises aversion to low post play. It doesn't seem to matter what coach has the chair, if GP and Coachie is around, they could have a prime Shaq being guarded by Muggsy Bogues and ignore him all night long. Tonight, we saw Cousins who had a clear advantage over Frye in the low block, however they ignored him play after play after play and jacked up ill advised jumpers or watched Evans attempt yet another dribble drive. GTFO Kings, I'm really starting to wonder WTF is the real issue here.

Could be the root of the softie culture right there. It seems like every article I have read about the young bigs over the years its Coachie helping them to expand their passing game and range. Sigh.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

It is frustrating to see a guy, Mainly Cousins, fight and fight and fight to get position in the post and we just swing it around the perimeter. We dont have much of an offense to speak of anyway, so when a guy is able to get a good post up position we should be feeding that every times its open, but we dont. I dont know who's fault that is, but its just one of many issues with our team right now.

 

[Kingster]

I kept waiting for the entry passes tonight. I thought Cousins, Landry and Tyreke all had an advantage down low.

The one time Cousins scored down low Walton commented that the Kings should run that same play until the Suns stop it. What happened is Cousins did not touch the ball for the next 5 possessions and then coach called him to the bench.

Why there were so few attempts to post up I cannot explain???

KB

Is it that our guards are selfish and don't want to get Cousins the ball? Is it that they don't have the skill to throw the entry pass? If you're a guard and you're in a pickup game, not even an NBA game, and you wanted to win, wouldn't you get it to Cousins? Especially when the opposing center is outweighed by 50 lbs? My best guess is that it's a combination of both factors. Walton also pointed out the overdribbling on this team; an excellent observation. Overdribbling doesn't really mesh very well with an entry pass to the big man.

 

[Showtime]

Is it that our guards are selfish and don't want to get Cousins the ball? Is it that they don't have the skill to throw the entry pass? If you're a guard and you're in a pickup game, not even an NBA game, and you wanted to win, wouldn't you get it to Cousins? Especially when the opposing center is outweighed by 50 lbs? My best guess is that it's a combination of both factors. Walton also pointed out the overdribbling on this team; an excellent observation. Overdribbling doesn't really mesh very well with an entry pass to the big man.

If the coaches wanted the offense to focus on post play, it would happen. This is clearly a bigger issue than just guards not wanting to pass it. It's obvious low post play is not a focus of this team.

 

[TheWileyVet]

Coaching

 

[Kingster]

If the coaches wanted the offense to focus on post play, it would happen. This is clearly a bigger issue than just guards not wanting to pass it. It's obvious low post play is not a focus of this team.

The question definitely deserves to be asked. Sometimes they get him the ball; sometimes they don't. The fact that they didn't get it to him repeatedly tonight is inexplicable. I noticed Reynolds didn't say anything when Walton brought up the point.

 

[Showtime]

The question definitely deserves to be asked. Sometimes they get him the ball; sometimes they don't. The fact that they didn't get it to him repeatedly tonight is inexplicable. I noticed Reynolds didn't say anything when Walton brought up the point.

If you look at teams that do focus, the post player is the primary option to facilitate. Not just score, but set up opportunities. The most recent would be the Spurs with Duncan, or KG's wolves, or the Kings with Webber, Shaq's Lakers, etc. It starts in the post and moves out, but with this team, the clear focus for creating offense is for Evans to try to make things happen off the dribble. If this offense wanted to focus on the post, it would. There's no half-hearted approach to it. It's not a 50/50 thing. If they wanted it to happen, if it was coached as a focus, we would see it. What we are seeing, instead, is the team clearly trying to make Evans the first, second, and third option of this team.

 

[SacTownKid]

I kept waiting for the entry passes tonight. I thought Cousins, Landry and Tyreke all had an advantage down low.

The one time Cousins scored down low Walton commented that the Kings should run that same play until the Suns stop it. What happened is Cousins did not touch the ball for the next 5 possessions and then coach called him to the bench.

Why there were so few attempts to post up I cannot explain???

KB

Cousins works hard for position too. It's a completely wasted effort on his part most times. I would love to see this team take advantage of his passing skills as well. I saw more cutters running for Dalembert tonight than Cousins. I think we should run more offense through both of those guys but especially Cousins. Is it the coaches fault or the players? I as most of you am pretty firm as to the direction I lean on that one.

 

[Bricklayer]

Thsi one does confuse me. The entire offense right now confuses me,. And no its not Reke, or rather its an aftereffect of overdependence if it is. Did you see what happened when Reke left the game today? What happened after he fouled out against Minnesota? There pretty much WAS no offense that I could define. I can't even draw up our plays. I don't know what they are. That's ridiculous. Give me a napkin I can still to this day draw up our plays during the Adelman years. I can draw up Utah's pick and roll options. I can draw up L.A.'s triangle (not so much whatever that thing is they are trying to run in Minnesota). But with us...there's a handful of plays that seem to occasionally happen, but there is no rhyme or reason to them. We apparently don't consider the pick and roll the staple everybody else does. Our bigs can be almost anywhere on any given play. I do pretty much know where Cisco and Omri are going to be, but that's only because we pretty much only pass it to them at the three point line and then its up to them whether to shoot the three or try to penetrate and create. The ONLY consistent thing about our entire offense is Reke's penetration and either drop off or kick out game. When he's not rolling, nothing happens. When he's out of the game there is no structured attack or theory of attack, its all just random. One play Dalembert will be a low post passer, then he's a jumpshooter, etc.

And this goes for low post play. I am not actually sure how unstoppable our options are at this point. Landry is short, Cousins is young and groundbound. But against the Suns?? But the very basic pick and roll where you get a big involved is almost never used. And the nearly as basic angle postup just comes from nowhere and is just as quickly forgotten. Its like we have a computer over there spitting out plays at random from our playbook, regardless of personnel (hence Antoine Wright as our "shooter" today, Dalembert getting the ball and being told to score it etc.).

 

[IfAt1st]

Thanks, all

T Its like we have a computer over there spitting out plays at random from our playbook, regardless of personnel

Thanks for the reply and the laugh, Brick.

 

[asakkings]

Kings run the same offense that I run with them in NBA 2k11, drive and kick to corner for 3s. Too bad in real life you can't shoot 70% from 3s no matter how open you are.

 

[exGrizzly]

I really like this thread. But unfortunately I have nothing to add as I don't know much about basketball strategy (besides the obvious pick, good pass, and charge). But I was really excited about this season with the addition of Cousins, Whiteside and Dalembert and the continuing progress of Donte. I believe JT can be a productive player (but not an exciting one, Dalembert too for that matter). But so far, this season which started well is beginning to resemble seasons past. And I don't know if it's coaching, lack of fundamentals, teamwork or on-court leadership but we should be better dammit. We have a unique talent in Tyreke, and a promising skilled big man in Cousins. We have Cisco back -- we should be much better than last year. We need to score more than 100 pts a game to give ourselves a chance.

 

[DeMoN]

Kings run the same offense that I run with them in NBA 2k11, drive and kick to corner for 3s. Too bad in real life you can't shoot 70% from 3s no matter how open you are.

QFT Greene is money in that game. I knock down almost every shot with him.

 

[mac]

Kings run the same offense that I run with them in NBA 2k11, drive and kick to corner for 3s. Too bad in real life you can't shoot 70% from 3s no matter how open you are.

Ah yes, JJ redick was the leading scorer on my NBA live teams as well. Kevin Martin also averaged more than 10 apg.