Who needs to stay?

#1
Mike,Peja,Special-K,Mo,Miller,Bobby,House,Songaila and maybe Skinner.

I would keep these guys for the next season.First of all,this team had very big changes this season and if 7-8 players would stay,they would learn how to play better with each other.I think that we really need one good deffender(like Doug was) and one strong PF(like C-Webb was).
Petrie now has clear situation and a lot of time for composing team which would be capable of winning championship ring next season.
Ostertag has player option(not sure what is that)...
 
#2
Peja said:
Mike,Peja,Special-K,Mo,Miller,Bobby,House,Songaila and maybe Skinner.

I would keep these guys for the next season.First of all,this team had very big changes this season and if 7-8 players would stay,they would learn how to play better with each other.I think that we really need one good deffender(like Doug was) and one strong PF(like C-Webb was).
Petrie now has clear situation and a lot of time for composing team which would be capable of winning championship ring next season.
Ostertag has player option(not sure what is that)...
Why don't come out and say get rid of the Cat.;) You pretty much said everyone but him. We need to look at everybody and say that everyone can leave at a price. No one stays 100% for sure.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#4
Hmm...on a 10 scale, with 10 meaning aboslutely untouchable, a 1 meaning must go, and a 5 meaning do not care/does not matter:

Bibby ( 9 ) -- probably the keeper/leader of whatever comes next. Some questions opened up with his play down the stretch after the trade and in the playoffs, but still I think the #1 keeper.
Miller ( 8 ) -- and an 8 because of our offense and because Bibby needs a big guy to be effective. If the offense changes or Bibby is moved, drops to a 7 because of limitations. Works well in our system, but has problematic deficiencies otherwise (defense).
Peja ( 6 ) -- in no case should be given away for a lesser player. But absolutely should be shopped to see who nibbles and what's available. Contract demands/desire to return could drop this all the way down to a 1 or 2 if it doesn't sound like we can meet his price next year. Might be the key piece in a megadeal package.
Skinner ( 6 ) -- I'd like to see him return, but as a PF not a twerpy center. Like his attitude, smart and mature player. But another large contract and potential trading pawn. Think he could be part of the solution, not the problem, but he isn't the solution himself, and if he's moved he's moved.
Evans ( 6 ) -- appreciate his maturity along with the athleticism. Like Skinner a nice mature attitude and approach. Not a great player, not one I want to depend on, but it would be nice to have him down there on the bench again. He's a FA and may get better offers, so out of our control.
Martin ( 6 ) -- young guy who showed flashes. Not sure whether he's ever going to more than good bencher, but still a cheap kid with potential, so I'd rather keep him than not. See no point in moving him unless its as a throw in in a bigger deal.
Bobby ( 6 ) -- absolutely love his attitude, and if he was young, healthy, and in the middle of his long cheap contract, this would be way up somewhere near a 9. But he's not. He's getting older, he's injury prone, and this is the last year of his deal. If he's still got serious trading value, then I think he could be one of those guys dangled to try to bring back a major player.
House ( 5 ) -- another FA obviously. Like the mature play he gave us late in the year, but not the sort of talent I am going to worry about either way.
Songaila ( 4 ) -- good guy, but so limited in ways that we can not afford (defense/rebounding). Maybe if we moved Brad he would become somewhat more valuable. But we need size, athleticism, rebounding, shotblocking up front, and that's not Darius. If he returned as a 5th big man or something, that's cool, but don't think he can be part of the main rotation along with Brad unless the other man in the rotation is Ben Walace or something. Has a contract option, and doubt he returns to us unless we can guarantee minutes. Be nice to have him under contract, as might have some value in trade.
Thomas ( 4 ) -- contract is heinous for a bencher, yet really needs to be replaced as a starter. Not sure he'd accept a bench role anyway.
Mobley ( 4 ) -- really don't think he's the right fit, and not realy sure where he would be really. Kind of plays his own game, and I can't recall a title team with mid-level players freelancing (as opposed to the top stars). If Peja goes, his shooting is more valuable, but still small, not a good defender.
Tag ( 3 ) -- personally I like the big oaf, but Rick obviously has no idea what to do with him, so he's just a large wasted contract and roster spot. Contract in last year though, so maybe pretty valuable trade piece.
Corliss ( 3 ) -- no real role on the team with Peja around, except as a problematic undersized big man. Big contract and not getting younger. Appreciate toughness, but not at this price and with these skills and size. If Peja is moved this could go up to a 4 or 5 depending on how many minutes open up at SF.
 
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#5
Agree with all of those more or less.

There's only 13 names so I checked the roster. I couldn't put my finger on who was our 14th. You forgot Erik Daniels, but it's not like that was a crucial omission. Don't know what to say about him really. He's got enough size to at least try out I suppose. If he can't get any minutes at the 3 after major trades are done, then dump him.
 
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#6
bibby is untouchable. i can say the same for miller, but if we can get a good deal involving miller then im all for it.
 
#7
tyrant said:
bibby is untouchable. i can say the same for miller, but if we can get a good deal involving miller then im all for it.
No one is untouchable on this team. No one earned it this post season. Changes are going to made for sure now I am waiting to see what kind of magic Petrie can pull off.
 
#8
Bricklayer said:
Peja ( 6 ) -- in no case should be given away for a lesser player. But absolutely should be shopped to see who nibbles and what's available. Contract demands/desire to return could drop this all the way down to a 1 or 2 if it doesn't sound like we can meet his price next year. Might be the key piece in a megadeal package.
.
maegadeal is the only way to get someone valuable for peja....for trade one-for-one i don't see anyone on market that has equal value
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#9
starks said:
maegadeal is the only way to get someone valuable for peja....for trade one-for-one i don't see anyone on market that has equal value
Lot of guys out there in his general range. Maggete & Artest get mentioned all the time, but just about any borderline All-Star player is in the neighborhood. Unfortunately the guys who I would actually love to see as change-of-whole-attitude sorts of players -- the Tayshuan Princes and Andrei Kirilenkos and Manu Ginobilis have ironically now surpassed him in value and no way their teams ever give them up.
 
#10
re

Bricklayer said:
Lot of guys out there in his general range. Maggete & Artest get mentioned all the time, but just about any borderline All-Star player is in the neighborhood. Unfortunately the guys who I would actually love to see as change-of-whole-attitude sorts of players -- the Tayshuan Princes and Andrei Kirilenkos and Manu Ginobilis have ironically now surpassed him in value and no way their teams ever give them up.
bricklayer, you just brought something to my attention. wasn't prince, ak and ginobili all picked up later in the draft? haven't you noticed that we only pick up offensive minded players. j-will, peja, gerald wallace, kev-mart to bring up a few. that only proves petrie is going to go after another offensive minded player. y don't our scouts go after a player that doesn't score alot but works his butt off on defense and is very athletic like the players mentioned above.
 
#11
CaminoChaos said:
bricklayer, you just brought something to my attention. wasn't prince, ak and ginobili all picked up later in the draft? haven't you noticed that we only pick up offensive minded players. j-will, peja, gerald wallace, kev-mart to bring up a few. that only proves petrie is going to go after another offensive minded player. y don't our scouts go after a player that doesn't score alot but works his butt off on defense and is very athletic like the players mentioned above.
Actually, Gerald Wallace was supposed to be that player, it just never worked out.
 
#12
I think the Kings management has a difficult problem to solve. In my opinion, they were beaten by a marginally better team. The Kings have a pretty good squad, but not quite good enough, at this time, to beat a Ray Allen-dominated squad. I assume that the same would be true if the Kings had played San Antonio, Phoenix, or Miami.

So, it seems to me, short of acquiring a "super star" like Duncan, Garnett, Amare, Shack, or Allen, the Kings can not improve much. Perhaps, the existing Kings squad would improve by virtue of real and extended practice sessions and honing of team skills.

I don't think that the Kings are that bad. I think Seattle is really very good. The only part of the game that the Kings simply could not accomplish properly was rebounding. There were dozens of little things that could have been better, but how much of the Kings' shortfall was due to the combined and chronic effects of injuries? Miller's was unable to jump and move well, and Bobby was pretty much a non-factor against Seattle.

Bibby is still the core of the team. Filling the new Kings roster will be a lot like filling a draw poker hand. You seldom throw out the entire five cards and start over. Bibby is a high face card that should be kept.

Miller is a pretty good center. Perhaps he will be more mobile and skillful after a few months of practicing with the team, whomever survives the Summer trades. Again, the poker analogy applies here.

Peja is worth keeping. Someone needs to decide what type of team the Kings will be next year. If they decide to remain a "skilled" offense-oriented team, Peja should remain. If the "establishment" decides that the Kings will become a hard-nosed defensive team, with incumbent thuggery, then Peja should be traded.

Skinner. I am ambivalent about Skinner. If he played the way he played in his first five games as a King, I would feel better about him.

Evans is well worth keeping. The Kings need rebounds and athleticism.


Martin. I am also ambivalent about Martin.

Bobby is a tough decision. I suppose it depends on his price tag and what can he bring as trade-meat. I would try to keep him, but not at all cost.

House will also be a tough decision. Again, it depends on his price and what can he bring as a trade option. I would try to keep him, but not at all cost.


Songaila is worth keeping. I suspect that he will not be excessively expensive. I hope not. The Kings need toughness and effort.
Thomas. I am also ambivalent about Thomas. He may be too expensive for a bench player, and too small for a starter at power forward.

Mobley is too unreliable. He is either hot or cold, and when his shots are not falling, he sometimes makes poor decisions.

Ostertag will never be utilized by Rick Adelman. I think he should have been used against Seattle. He was not. Trade him or use him.

Williamson is a real asset, but probably too expensive for what he brings. I would try to keep him, mostly because he is a tough guy with offensive skills.

In summary, and largely for emotional reasons, I would like the Kings to retain Bibby, Miller, Stojakovic, Jackson, Songaila, Evans, and Williamson. For now, I would shop Skinner, Mobley, Thomas, Martin, House, and Ostertag. I would not be unhappy if any of these men stayed with the team.
 
#13
No one is untouchable, and that includes Bibby. If we can get something great in return, then go for it. That includes the Coach and his staff. Nothing remains. This team is due an overhaul and Im very sure there will be one of sorts that includes a valuable player.
 
#14
Bricklayer said:
...the Tayshuan Princes and Andrei Kirilenkos and Manu Ginobilis have ironically now surpassed him in value and no way their teams ever give them up.
Hm, I'm not quite sure about that... They are all more versatile than Pedja, but Pedja on a team with some significant low post presence is a lot more dangerous than these fellas.
 
#15
Bricklayer said:
Lot of guys out there in his general range. Maggete & Artest get mentioned all the time, but just about any borderline All-Star player is in the neighborhood. Unfortunately the guys who I would actually love to see as change-of-whole-attitude sorts of players -- the Tayshuan Princes and Andrei Kirilenkos and Manu Ginobilis have ironically now surpassed him in value and no way their teams ever give them up.
I am a huge Prince fan. Huge. Just love the kid and he would be perfect Pedja replacement, where Kings wouldn't miss a beat offensively (Prince in our offense would be as efficient a scorer as Pedja) but the additional lenght, rebounding, blocking, hustle and defense would be significant. I am starting to have my doubts about AK and his injuries. Ginobli is someone I would like to see on the court with Pedja not in his place.

Ginobli wa 28th pick in 2nd round. What a find.
 
#16
Anyway, here is my list of people to keep:

Miller - keep
Pedja - keep
Bibby - keep
Evans - keep
K. Thomas - keep
Skinner - keep
House - keep
Bobby - dump (he's given us pretty much nothing in the last 2 years, not as good defender as he used to be, and is only getting worse)
Mobley - dump (self-explanatory)
Corliss - dump (Petrie did it before, he wasn't wrong about it)
Tag - dump (not sure why he would be kept if he doesn't play)
Songaila - dump (undersized and relatively useless when that shot is not falling, and I'd rather have Miller take that)
 
#17
Hm,I agree that no one is untouchable,but if we know that C-Webb,Divac and Doug gone it would be pretty wierd to me if Petrie would trade Bibby,Peja or Miler,because chemistry in the team would be totally broken in that case.That remainds me on Lakers(this season) and I really don't want Kings out of the playoffs next year.
I still think that this team is pretty good,but these guys didn't have too much time to learn how to play with each other and with one good deffender and one good and strong PF,I don't see why Kings wouldn't be title contenders again?!
 
#18
Bricklayer said:
Hmm...on a 10 scale, with 10 meaning aboslutely untouchable, a 1 meaning must go, and a 5 meaning do not care/does not matter:

Bibby ( 9 ) -- probably the keeper/leader of whatever comes next. Some questions opened up with his play down the stretch after the trade and in the playoffs, but still I think the #1 keeper.
Miller ( 8 ) -- and an 8 because of our offense and because Bibby needs a big guy to be effective. If the offense changes or Bibby is moved, drops to a 7 because of limitations. Works well in our system, but has problematic deficiencies otherwise (defense).
Peja ( 6 ) -- in no case should be given away for a lesser player. But absolutely should be shopped to see who nibbles and what's available. Contract demands/desire to return could drop this all the way down to a 1 or 2 if it doesn't sound like we can meet his price next year. Might be the key piece in a megadeal package.
Skinner ( 6 ) -- I'd like to see him return, but as a PF not a twerpy center. Like his attitude, smart and mature player. But another large contract and potential trading pawn. Think he could be part of the solution, not the problem, but he isn't the solution himself, and if he's moved he's moved.
Evans ( 6 ) -- appreciate his maturity along with the athleticism. Like Skinner a nice mature attitude and approach. Not a great player, not one I want to depend on, but it would be nice to have him down there on the bench again. He's a FA and may get better offers, so out of our control.
Martin ( 6 ) -- young guy who showed flashes. Not sure whether he's ever going to more than good bencher, but still a cheap kid with potential, so I'd rather keep him than not. See no point in moving him unless its as a throw in in a bigger deal.
Bobby ( 6 ) -- absolutely love his attitude, and if he was young, healthy, and in the middle of his long cheap contract, this would be way up somewhere near a 9. But he's not. He's getting older, he's injury prone, and this is the last year of his deal. If he's still got serious trading value, then I think he could be one of those guys dangled to try to bring back a major player.
House ( 5 ) -- another FA obviously. Like the mature play he gave us late in the year, but not the sort of talent I am going to worry about either way.
Songaila ( 4 ) -- good guy, but so limited in ways that we can not afford (defense/rebounding). Maybe if we moved Brad he would become somewhat more valuable. But we need size, athleticism, rebounding, shotblocking up front, and that's not Darius. If he returned as a 5th big man or something, that's cool, but don't think he can be part of the main rotation along with Brad unless the other man in the rotation is Ben Walace or something. Has a contract option, and doubt he returns to us unless we can guarantee minutes. Be nice to have him under contract, as might have some value in trade.
Thomas ( 4 ) -- contract is heinous for a bencher, yet really needs to be replaced as a starter. Not sure he'd accept a bench role anyway.
Mobley ( 4 ) -- really don't think he's the right fit, and not realy sure where he would be really. Kind of plays his own game, and I can't recall a title team with mid-level players freelancing (as opposed to the top stars). If Peja goes, his shooting is more valuable, but still small, not a good defender.
Tag ( 3 ) -- personally I like the big oaf, but Rick obviously has no idea what to do with him, so he's just a large wasted contract and roster spot. Contract in last year though, so maybe pretty valuable trade piece.
Corliss ( 3 ) -- no real role on the team with Peja around, except as a problematic undersized big man. Big contract and not getting younger. Appreciate toughness, but not at this price and with these skills and size. If Peja is moved this could go up to a 4 or 5 depending on how many minutes open up at SF.
if peja and cuttino are not essential to this team, then i say do a little sign and trade with seattle for Ray Allen and possibly throw in someone like luke ridinor. just a thought.
 
#19
KEEP DARIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DUDE he is exactly what we love about our team personality wise. European?? I dunno. But he is cheap and i love him so dont let him go.

COME ON over 500 from the field??? SUCH consistancy. Other people can make up for the rebounds.

What ya'll think.
 
#20
Who are these other people? And if we keep Peja and/or Brad, we could end up with no rebounder in the front at times or require the services of an extraodinary one.
 
#21
stooojakovic said:
KEEP DARIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DUDE he is exactly what we love about our team personality wise. European?? I dunno. But he is cheap and i love him so dont let him go.

COME ON over 500 from the field??? SUCH consistancy. Other people can make up for the rebounds.

What ya'll think.

I agree!!!!! Darius brings very good basics, some of the team's only quality defense, and an attitude and hustle that is badly needed. How many times has he been put in the center position to bail out whomever!! He isn't Amare and he isn't designed to be a center at that height. I say keep him around and see how the team melds for next year.
 
#23
Zyphen said:
Who are these other people? And if we keep Peja and/or Brad, we could end up with no rebounder in the front at times or require the services of an extraodinary one.
That's right. With Pedja/Miller as 2/3 of our front court we could always find exits like last night - all effort but not enough boards, blocks and D. There is actually very few players in the league that we can plug in at PF and be able to compensate.

This is not a knock on Pedja or Brad, infact it would be tantamount to cruel and unusual punishment not to help them with big athletic PF if they stay together.
 
#24
If both stay, we would need to dump all our other forwards except for maybe skinner. I don't want any other starter or backup that can't rebound. They should be at least average defenders as well.
 
F

Fillmoe

Guest
#25
Mike Bibby- Keep, NO QUESTION!
Brad Miller- Keep, good passer, thread from outside and inside
Maurice Evans- Keep, good defender, very athletic. with practice can become a great player. a good keep at a good price :)
Brian Skinner- Keep, great rebounder and shot blocker.
Eddie House- Keep, last half of the season Eddie shot close to 55% from the field. hes a decent defender aswell. not to mention hes cheap. :)
Kevin Martin- Keep, during the end of the season when he was getting 20-25 minutes he was puttin up 10-15 points a game. i think he needs playing time and can become a tayshaun prince type player

anyone else if the price is right, bye bye
 
#27
We desperatly need sign any superstar like Carter or may be Pierce. We can offer anyone like Peja + Thomas + Songaila. All Play-offs time we suffered without leadership in critical moments. Bibby is the Clatch ,but not all times. Ray Allen may be good, but so expensive. Thou
 
#28
We DO NOT need Ray Allen! For one he is going to command alot of $$$ and we dont need another shooter on this team. We need a athletic OG who can match up against the Kobe's/Tmacs of the league and has a decent shot if he needs to take it. And of course a PF.
 
#29
i don't think anybody is untouchable. we really need to get something out of the webber trade. i am not impressed with kenny thomas , skinner, or williamson. petrie needs to redeem himself because he traded away our best player for three scrubs. he's really gone downhill in my book and hopefully he will change my mind about him with some good moves this off-season.
 
#30
sloter said:
Hm, I'm not quite sure about that... They are all more versatile than Pedja, but Pedja on a team with some significant low post presence is a lot more dangerous than these fellas.
Nope. All of these guys are move valuable than Peja. All of them. AK was more valuable last year, Prince is much improved, I'd trade Peja for him in a hearbeat. Manu is borderline, but he plays both ends, so I'd rather have him.