Who do you want the Kings to Draft at #6?
- Thread starter ockingsfan
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Mudiay.
WCS is a role player. Fits well next to Cousins, yes. But lets say Cousins leaves, WCS is not anchoring your team at all. The stars would have to align and align very soon for WCS to be the best pick for us.
Mudiay has star potential in his own right. Has the potential to be the best or second best player on his team. If Cousins leaves, at least we will have a solid potential star to take over for him. The cons for us are his age and the fact that it will probably take him some time to get acclimated to the NBA where WCS's skill set is better suited to hit the ground running as far as defending goes.
Do you pick the less talented man who fits the best right this second or do you pick the more talented man who is just an ok fit for next year but potentially a much better player in the future? I say pick the talent over the best fit and let the chips fall where they may. Things change so quickly in the NBA that the guy you didn't think was the best fit can all the sudden be exactly what you need in no time.
WCS is a role player. Fits well next to Cousins, yes. But lets say Cousins leaves, WCS is not anchoring your team at all. The stars would have to align and align very soon for WCS to be the best pick for us.
Mudiay has star potential in his own right. Has the potential to be the best or second best player on his team. If Cousins leaves, at least we will have a solid potential star to take over for him. The cons for us are his age and the fact that it will probably take him some time to get acclimated to the NBA where WCS's skill set is better suited to hit the ground running as far as defending goes.
Do you pick the less talented man who fits the best right this second or do you pick the more talented man who is just an ok fit for next year but potentially a much better player in the future? I say pick the talent over the best fit and let the chips fall where they may. Things change so quickly in the NBA that the guy you didn't think was the best fit can all the sudden be exactly what you need in no time.
I voted for WCS, but I think I'd be equally happy with picking Mudiay. I also wouldn't mind if we ended up with Stanley Johnson.
WCS fills our all around defensive needs, he looks like a more energetic Dalembert too me. I think being under Cousins' wing could help him grow into a great big, on both ends of the court.. His lateral quickness and perimeter defense is impressive as is his rim protection. Its rare too see a 7' footer that fluid on the court... He's got a good head on his shoulders. I think he'll be one of the best defensive bigs in the league when he fully develops.
Mudiay has the potential to be an all-star one day, possibly a franchise player.. He seems like hes a hybrid of Wall and Reke.. Built like Reke, but has the speed/quickness and passing IQ of Wall. His handles are phenomenal, amazing passer, and he can pick on smaller guards in the post... I think he has the potential to be one of the best defenders in the league, its rare too see a PG that can guard multiple positions... If he improves his jumper the sky is the limit... I think he will end up being the best player in the draft when all is said and done.
Stanley Johnson can be one of the best two way players in the draft.. Athletic, 6'7, 246 pounds?! at age 19... Dude is a beast!... His playing style reminds me of Ron Ron.. He just beats people up on both ends of the court and hes relentless when he's doing it. He can stretch the floor with his shooting, D Up 1-3 positions and beat people up in the post. He suits our style of play. Players like Kawhi Leonard and Draymond Green have proven how valuable players like Johnson can be in todays league. I've watched alot of his interviews and he's got a great attitude, really down to earth guy. He seems to have an amazing work ethic aswell.
I'd he happy coming out of draft night with any of these guys, I really think we need too add a defensive presence in the draft. I feel like all 3 of these players have the potential too be great on that end of the court. Cameron Payne is intriguing aswell..
WCS fills our all around defensive needs, he looks like a more energetic Dalembert too me. I think being under Cousins' wing could help him grow into a great big, on both ends of the court.. His lateral quickness and perimeter defense is impressive as is his rim protection. Its rare too see a 7' footer that fluid on the court... He's got a good head on his shoulders. I think he'll be one of the best defensive bigs in the league when he fully develops.
Mudiay has the potential to be an all-star one day, possibly a franchise player.. He seems like hes a hybrid of Wall and Reke.. Built like Reke, but has the speed/quickness and passing IQ of Wall. His handles are phenomenal, amazing passer, and he can pick on smaller guards in the post... I think he has the potential to be one of the best defenders in the league, its rare too see a PG that can guard multiple positions... If he improves his jumper the sky is the limit... I think he will end up being the best player in the draft when all is said and done.
Stanley Johnson can be one of the best two way players in the draft.. Athletic, 6'7, 246 pounds?! at age 19... Dude is a beast!... His playing style reminds me of Ron Ron.. He just beats people up on both ends of the court and hes relentless when he's doing it. He can stretch the floor with his shooting, D Up 1-3 positions and beat people up in the post. He suits our style of play. Players like Kawhi Leonard and Draymond Green have proven how valuable players like Johnson can be in todays league. I've watched alot of his interviews and he's got a great attitude, really down to earth guy. He seems to have an amazing work ethic aswell.
I'd he happy coming out of draft night with any of these guys, I really think we need too add a defensive presence in the draft. I feel like all 3 of these players have the potential too be great on that end of the court. Cameron Payne is intriguing aswell..
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we need a difference maker now not tomorrow.
This year is the most important in this franchises history. We shipped last year and hitting our mark of 'young upcoming team with lots of potential' just making or missing the playoffs, this year we have to make the playoffs, no if's, no buts.
Our biggest deficiency is defense and WCS helps us immediately. This is and shoud be an all eggs in one basket proposition, we cant be planning for a potential life without Boogie. If Mundiay falls and WCS is there im wishing him well and taking WCS every day of the week because he directly results in wins based on the skillset he brings to the table today.
This year is the most important in this franchises history. We shipped last year and hitting our mark of 'young upcoming team with lots of potential' just making or missing the playoffs, this year we have to make the playoffs, no if's, no buts.
Our biggest deficiency is defense and WCS helps us immediately. This is and shoud be an all eggs in one basket proposition, we cant be planning for a potential life without Boogie. If Mundiay falls and WCS is there im wishing him well and taking WCS every day of the week because he directly results in wins based on the skillset he brings to the table today.
No, you gotta go all out to make sure Cousins DOESN'T leave. You go half in hedging your bets, you're just making it a fait accompli.
If Cousins leaves its the greatest catastrophe for the organization since Webber's knee. You do every single thing to prevent that. If you fail then you flop hard and start all over again with top 5 picks and more years of sucktatude. Could be going on 15 years of it before you are finally out. Verily the new Clippers.
If Cousins leaves its the greatest catastrophe for the organization since Webber's knee. You do every single thing to prevent that. If you fail then you flop hard and start all over again with top 5 picks and more years of sucktatude. Could be going on 15 years of it before you are finally out. Verily the new Clippers.
Stop hammering those nails to the coffin of WCS dream pick. 
You'll break a lot hearts here.
On the other side of coin, we can actually go with Porzingis or Hezonja at 6.
We got a European VP in the FO, this could make those euro kids feel at home with the Euro traditions and turn themselves into league superstars.
The 2 guards, 2 forward, 1 bully big goes a long way now in this league.
Just check out the conference and league finals games, DMC could get still 40 against any of those teams (Hawks, Cavs, Warriors, Houston) any given night without any defensive big next to him. (insert troll face meme)
You'll break a lot hearts here.
On the other side of coin, we can actually go with Porzingis or Hezonja at 6.
We got a European VP in the FO, this could make those euro kids feel at home with the Euro traditions and turn themselves into league superstars.
The 2 guards, 2 forward, 1 bully big goes a long way now in this league.
Just check out the conference and league finals games, DMC could get still 40 against any of those teams (Hawks, Cavs, Warriors, Houston) any given night without any defensive big next to him. (insert troll face meme)
Here's my issue with this. Obviously no one wants Cousins to leave, but choosing a role player, having it most likely not work and then going into 15 years of sucktatude does not seem like a good plan to me.
My reasoning for not wanting WCS as a "win now" player is the fact that JT was a pretty damn good defender last year in his own right. Obviously he has many flaws but he also shut down some pretty good PF's last year. WCS will most certainly be a better defender in the end than JT but was JT's lack of versatility the reason why we were bad last year? IMO we lost because (lets leave out all the front office garbage) because our SG's were awful and we couldn't shoot the basketball from deep. Especially once Collison went out. WCS doesn't help our shooting at all. I'm not saying we need to score more points, I'm saying we need to be more efficient and spread the floor better for the big man underneath the basket.
I don't see WCS being an upgrade to JT this year at all. In the future, yes. Most of the time it takes these big lanky guys a few years to adjust to the game ala Chandler/Jordan. If we're trying to win right now to keep Cousins from leaving, I don't think WCS is the man to keep that from happening.
My reasoning for not wanting WCS as a "win now" player is the fact that JT was a pretty damn good defender last year in his own right. Obviously he has many flaws but he also shut down some pretty good PF's last year. WCS will most certainly be a better defender in the end than JT but was JT's lack of versatility the reason why we were bad last year? IMO we lost because (lets leave out all the front office garbage) because our SG's were awful and we couldn't shoot the basketball from deep. Especially once Collison went out. WCS doesn't help our shooting at all. I'm not saying we need to score more points, I'm saying we need to be more efficient and spread the floor better for the big man underneath the basket.
I don't see WCS being an upgrade to JT this year at all. In the future, yes. Most of the time it takes these big lanky guys a few years to adjust to the game ala Chandler/Jordan. If we're trying to win right now to keep Cousins from leaving, I don't think WCS is the man to keep that from happening.
Well, so in that case we largely agree on situation, just not on potential draftee who can rectify it.
But no, defense was the #1 reason why we lost. Why we've lost for the past 9 years. Stupid stupid organization never gets it.
year by year Pts For/Pts Against Rankings:
2014-15: Offense: 101.3 (14th); Defense: 105.0 (28th)
2013-14: Offense: 100.5 (17th); Defense: 103.4 (24th)
2012-13: Offense: 102.1 (10th); Defense: 105.1 (30th)
2011-12: Offense: 98.8 (6th); Defense: 104.4 (30th)
2010-11: Offense: 99.4 (15th); Defense: 104.7 (25th)
2009-10: Offense: 100.0 (18th); Defense: 104.4 (25th)
2008-09: Offense: 100.6 (12th); Defense: 109.3 (29th)
2007-08: Offense: 102.5 (8th); Defense: 104.8 (24th)
2006-07: Offense: 101.3 (8th); Defense: 103.1 (24th)
It would be comical, except its been happening to us. Anyway, we have been average to above average in scoring pretty much every year for the 9 year drought. And somehow we seem completely unable to make the connection that hey, its the fact that we have never once been better than 24th in defense that has held us back year after year after year. If we had nothing more than a mediocre defense to go with our mediocre offense we'd be a .500 team. But we haven't sniffed that since Adelman was coach. We did for a month this past season, with the inexplicable result that we were actually winning, and we promptly canned the coach for it.
The SG woes are very real too, don't disagree with that. And especially critical given the teamwide 3pt weakness. But no, in the end, we scored a slightly more than average number of points...we just once again humiliated ourselves on the other end, as always. Fix that, and even with crappy SGs we would have been in the playoff hunt. 14th in pts for and 14th in pts against should make you roughly a 42-43 win team I would think.
But no, defense was the #1 reason why we lost. Why we've lost for the past 9 years. Stupid stupid organization never gets it.
year by year Pts For/Pts Against Rankings:
2014-15: Offense: 101.3 (14th); Defense: 105.0 (28th)
2013-14: Offense: 100.5 (17th); Defense: 103.4 (24th)
2012-13: Offense: 102.1 (10th); Defense: 105.1 (30th)
2011-12: Offense: 98.8 (6th); Defense: 104.4 (30th)
2010-11: Offense: 99.4 (15th); Defense: 104.7 (25th)
2009-10: Offense: 100.0 (18th); Defense: 104.4 (25th)
2008-09: Offense: 100.6 (12th); Defense: 109.3 (29th)
2007-08: Offense: 102.5 (8th); Defense: 104.8 (24th)
2006-07: Offense: 101.3 (8th); Defense: 103.1 (24th)
It would be comical, except its been happening to us. Anyway, we have been average to above average in scoring pretty much every year for the 9 year drought. And somehow we seem completely unable to make the connection that hey, its the fact that we have never once been better than 24th in defense that has held us back year after year after year. If we had nothing more than a mediocre defense to go with our mediocre offense we'd be a .500 team. But we haven't sniffed that since Adelman was coach. We did for a month this past season, with the inexplicable result that we were actually winning, and we promptly canned the coach for it.
The SG woes are very real too, don't disagree with that. And especially critical given the teamwide 3pt weakness. But no, in the end, we scored a slightly more than average number of points...we just once again humiliated ourselves on the other end, as always. Fix that, and even with crappy SGs we would have been in the playoff hunt. 14th in pts for and 14th in pts against should make you roughly a 42-43 win team I would think.
This is why I get so frustrated seeing us target guys like faried and Lawson. Yes they are more talented than the guys they're replacing but they are worse defenders.
Would climbing to top 5 on offense while staying bottom 5 on d lead to the playoffs? Unlikely.
Fix the d first while making sure the players offense compliments our stars.
Would climbing to top 5 on offense while staying bottom 5 on d lead to the playoffs? Unlikely.
Fix the d first while making sure the players offense compliments our stars.
I don't think I can articulate this better than I already have, but I'll give it a try. My position is that WCS is a mediocre prospect with limited pro potential who thrived in college where he had a size advantage on pretty much everyone but won't be nearly as effective in the NBA against similar size and length, superior strength, and more advanced ballhandlers. Is that clear enough?
I choose Mikki Moore as a comparison because he was a rail thin athletic
7 footer who's offensive repertoire is similarly limited. He carved out a decent career as a roleplayer in the league, but he was never a difference maker. The reason for the video was to illustrate how misleading Youtube highlight reels can be, that's all. The Cauley-Stein draft videos show a lot of the same kinds of scoring opportunities that Moore gets. He's not scoring from the high post, he's not scoring with his back to the basket, he's not creating looks for others. Both guys are purely finishers on the offensive end. Defensively, it concerns me how easily Cauley-Stein gets pushed around under the basket. He's stronger than Mikki Moore, but he has the same problems with holding position.
The main reason I can see that everyone is jumping all over Cauley-Stein here is his ability to guard the pick and roll. He can move his feet well enough to stop the ballhandler from getting to the basket and recover fast enough to guard the screener off a switch. Fair enough... his abilities in that one aspect of the game are quite unique. NBA teams are smart though. They have advance scouts and a whole battery of assistant coaches watching for this kind of thing. When the good teams play against Cauley-Stein they aren't going to try and attack him with pick and rolls, they're going to back him down and take the ball into his body and draw fouls. His rebounding skills are mediocre. His overall awareness of team defense doesn't strike me as anything special. Height, wingspan, and footspeed are factors on the defensive end but so are cooperation, situational awareness, and the ability to anticipate plays before they happen. Aggressiveness on the defensive end is a nice attribute but it can be used against you if you lack situational awareness. This is where a similarly mobile big in Nerlens Noel is elite. Personally I don't see the same kind of anticipation skills with Cauley-Stein.
In fact, here's how I would attack him off the dribble if I wanted to. Set the screen at the top of the key to force a switch. Feign a step back jumper to suck him further outside then re-screen but take a step away from the screen first to turn him around then cut back sharply around the screen. Use his aggressiveness against him. He's going to be so focused on stopping the ballhandler at that point that he completely misses the screen. Now you've got a clear path to the basket either for yourself or the screening big. His attempt to get back in the play from that position is most likely going to result in a foul.
So I'm looking at a player who's overall skillset is athletic dunker, runs the floor well, good lateral footspeed for his size. He has to be a terror on the defensive end to have lottery pick value and I have enough questions about how well his defense will translate that I pass on him at #6 in favor of better all-around prospects who have star potential on both ends of the floor. Guys like Mudiay, Johnson, Turner, or even Winslow.
I choose Mikki Moore as a comparison because he was a rail thin athletic
7 footer who's offensive repertoire is similarly limited. He carved out a decent career as a roleplayer in the league, but he was never a difference maker. The reason for the video was to illustrate how misleading Youtube highlight reels can be, that's all. The Cauley-Stein draft videos show a lot of the same kinds of scoring opportunities that Moore gets. He's not scoring from the high post, he's not scoring with his back to the basket, he's not creating looks for others. Both guys are purely finishers on the offensive end. Defensively, it concerns me how easily Cauley-Stein gets pushed around under the basket. He's stronger than Mikki Moore, but he has the same problems with holding position.
The main reason I can see that everyone is jumping all over Cauley-Stein here is his ability to guard the pick and roll. He can move his feet well enough to stop the ballhandler from getting to the basket and recover fast enough to guard the screener off a switch. Fair enough... his abilities in that one aspect of the game are quite unique. NBA teams are smart though. They have advance scouts and a whole battery of assistant coaches watching for this kind of thing. When the good teams play against Cauley-Stein they aren't going to try and attack him with pick and rolls, they're going to back him down and take the ball into his body and draw fouls. His rebounding skills are mediocre. His overall awareness of team defense doesn't strike me as anything special. Height, wingspan, and footspeed are factors on the defensive end but so are cooperation, situational awareness, and the ability to anticipate plays before they happen. Aggressiveness on the defensive end is a nice attribute but it can be used against you if you lack situational awareness. This is where a similarly mobile big in Nerlens Noel is elite. Personally I don't see the same kind of anticipation skills with Cauley-Stein.
In fact, here's how I would attack him off the dribble if I wanted to. Set the screen at the top of the key to force a switch. Feign a step back jumper to suck him further outside then re-screen but take a step away from the screen first to turn him around then cut back sharply around the screen. Use his aggressiveness against him. He's going to be so focused on stopping the ballhandler at that point that he completely misses the screen. Now you've got a clear path to the basket either for yourself or the screening big. His attempt to get back in the play from that position is most likely going to result in a foul.
So I'm looking at a player who's overall skillset is athletic dunker, runs the floor well, good lateral footspeed for his size. He has to be a terror on the defensive end to have lottery pick value and I have enough questions about how well his defense will translate that I pass on him at #6 in favor of better all-around prospects who have star potential on both ends of the floor. Guys like Mudiay, Johnson, Turner, or even Winslow.
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Do you have access to our Pts for/Pts against stats from last year while we had Cousins with Malone and then at the point when we fired Malone? Would be interesting to take a look at those as well.
I agree with you 100% on defense. Until we fix the defense we aren't winning a thing. I just don't think it's a black and white issue at this point.
Couple things to consider. Is our offense actually average or does it just look average because our defense is so bad? Giving up more points normally means more opportunities for yourself to score. So lets say we all the sudden get down to the 15th best defense, I'd venture to say our offense would now be in the 20's.
We need our defense to improve but like I said in the above post, we're replacing one of our best defensive players with a defensive player. The gains in the first couple years are going to be minimal. If we were replacing Bargnani with WCS then we might see a big difference. But we're replacing our 2nd or 3rd best defender with another defender so I just don't think we're going to see an improvement unless he turns into Tyson Chandler in a hurry.
This also brings up another point for me. The Kings have been loaded for years with guys who can do 1 or 2 things well and a bunch of things very badly. We don't have many two way players. Cousins one. Collison is a low level one. That's basically it. Is choosing another one way player really what we need right now? I'd rather shoot for a guy who can not only bring those defensive points per game down, but can also help with the offensive points per game as well.
If it comes down to taking WCS over a one way offensive player, then my pick is going to be WCS. But if we can get a possible two way player or star, I'd rather take my chances on that because I just don't see WCS as being the guy who gets us into the playoffs. WCS + healthy Matthews? Maybe. WCS + our normal signings? No.
I agree with you 100% on defense. Until we fix the defense we aren't winning a thing. I just don't think it's a black and white issue at this point.
Couple things to consider. Is our offense actually average or does it just look average because our defense is so bad? Giving up more points normally means more opportunities for yourself to score. So lets say we all the sudden get down to the 15th best defense, I'd venture to say our offense would now be in the 20's.
We need our defense to improve but like I said in the above post, we're replacing one of our best defensive players with a defensive player. The gains in the first couple years are going to be minimal. If we were replacing Bargnani with WCS then we might see a big difference. But we're replacing our 2nd or 3rd best defender with another defender so I just don't think we're going to see an improvement unless he turns into Tyson Chandler in a hurry.
This also brings up another point for me. The Kings have been loaded for years with guys who can do 1 or 2 things well and a bunch of things very badly. We don't have many two way players. Cousins one. Collison is a low level one. That's basically it. Is choosing another one way player really what we need right now? I'd rather shoot for a guy who can not only bring those defensive points per game down, but can also help with the offensive points per game as well.
If it comes down to taking WCS over a one way offensive player, then my pick is going to be WCS. But if we can get a possible two way player or star, I'd rather take my chances on that because I just don't see WCS as being the guy who gets us into the playoffs. WCS + healthy Matthews? Maybe. WCS + our normal signings? No.
(rankings here are for the period indicated, i.e., we were 13th in the league in scoring between 10/29 and 11/26 before Cuz got sick, etc.)
pre-Cousins sickness it was:
Pts For: 102.1 (13th)
Pts Against: 100.1 (17th)
post-Cousins sickness with Malone it was:
Pts For: 99.0 (19th)
Pts Against: 103.3 (21st)
Corbin it was:
Pts For: 99.2 (14th)
Pts Against: 106.7 (30th)
Karl it was:
Pts For: 103.6 (7th)
Pts Against: 106.5 (27th)
So in other words its right there. Unsatisfied with finally achieving decency on defense, we canned the coach and went right back to the exact same pattern which has made the franchise a laughingstock for a straight decade.
pre-Cousins sickness it was:
Pts For: 102.1 (13th)
Pts Against: 100.1 (17th)
post-Cousins sickness with Malone it was:
Pts For: 99.0 (19th)
Pts Against: 103.3 (21st)
Corbin it was:
Pts For: 99.2 (14th)
Pts Against: 106.7 (30th)
Karl it was:
Pts For: 103.6 (7th)
Pts Against: 106.5 (27th)
So in other words its right there. Unsatisfied with finally achieving decency on defense, we canned the coach and went right back to the exact same pattern which has made the franchise a laughingstock for a straight decade.
I'm not sure why you are assuming this. Even if WCS can come in and start from day 1, you then shift JT to backup center. So, his minutes aren't disappearing. The minutes that disappear are the Hollins/Evans/Landry minutes, and surely those minutes aren't providing plus defense. Cousins made tremendous strides as a defender and rim protector, but he defense fell off a cliff when he sat. Adding another plus big defender in WCS would plug that hole.
Realistically, I don't see WCS starting for the Kings at the beginning of the season. Maybe he really impresses in training camp and gets the green light at the beginning of the season, but I still run Thompson out there to start the season (barring a trade, of course.)
What WCS would do would be to shore up the interior defense and rebounding of the second unit for the Kings. The Kings were respectable defensively for most of the season with the starting five of Boogie, JT, Rudy, Ben, Darren. They were abysmal defensively and on the boards with the second unit whose tallest player was Casspi.
WCS fixes all of that right away. Maybe Carl Landry can even start contributing on offense when he doesn't have to worry about guarding centers.
What WCS would do would be to shore up the interior defense and rebounding of the second unit for the Kings. The Kings were respectable defensively for most of the season with the starting five of Boogie, JT, Rudy, Ben, Darren. They were abysmal defensively and on the boards with the second unit whose tallest player was Casspi.
WCS fixes all of that right away. Maybe Carl Landry can even start contributing on offense when he doesn't have to worry about guarding centers.
The problem with JT is he's a crappy team defender. He's fine man on man but I don't think he's smart enough to keep up with the pace of the game. If he's on one guy with the ball then he's fine. If he's watching someone with the ball the player he was supposed to guard gets by him and scores more times than not. JT isn't doing us any favors, and WCS would be heads and shoulders above what JT could ever give us.
People are trying to compare WCS to Mikki Moore when in reality he's more of a Joakim Noah and I know for sure we could use a player like Noah.
That's not a bad comp at all though in fairness to Noah he's always been a better passer and I'd say a more intense competitor with a higher motor. He was also asked to do a bit more offensively at Florida than WCS at Kentucky and that meant he turned the ball over more as well. But the other stats are very similar - both coming from championship contending teams in tough conferences with good coaches.
That said, Cauley-Stein is almost an inch taller, has almost a 2" longer wingspan a 3.5" taller standing reach and actually weighs nearly 20 lbs more than Noah did when he came out after his junior year.
John Henson was not physically ready for the NBA. An 18 year old Tyson Chandler was not physically ready for the NBA. WCS will be fine once he adjusts to the speed and strength of the NBA game.
That said, Cauley-Stein is almost an inch taller, has almost a 2" longer wingspan a 3.5" taller standing reach and actually weighs nearly 20 lbs more than Noah did when he came out after his junior year.
John Henson was not physically ready for the NBA. An 18 year old Tyson Chandler was not physically ready for the NBA. WCS will be fine once he adjusts to the speed and strength of the NBA game.
Yep pathetic. Whats even more infuriating is the fact that people got paid a lifetimes worth of money to make those decisions. Anyone on this board could have done better than our front office last year.
What surprises me are our numbers pre Cousins' sickness. I would have assumed our points for would have been around 22nd or so and our pts against in the top 10. Seemed like we were winning a lot of 85-80 games but I guess there were some high scoring ones thrown in as well. Either way they were like forget that boring winning stuff. Lets go back to the same exact crap that's made this a dumpster fire of a franchise for the last decade.
I guess the one positive is that Karl got us up to one of the best offensive teams without Collison for the most part. At least there is something we can build from.
I'm assuming this because a lot of rookies don't hit the ground running to where they are making net gains for their team. Especially when replacing a serviceable veteran like JT. I just didn't feel like it was Hollins/Evans/Landry's fault that we are picking 6th. Obviously they share the blame but I put most the blame on our SG's and PG's not named Collison. McLemore, Stauskas, Sessions and Ray Mac were bad and they played a lot of minutes.
I agree with you about JT there. That's one of the big reasons why I say he has his short comings. The sad thing is that basically the rest of the team is bad at man defense AND team defense. At least he gives you good 1 on 1 D.
I don't think WCS is going to be anything like Mikki Moore but I don't think he'll be nearly as well rounded as Noah. I'm thinking better than Noah on the defensive end but not even close on offense.
What surprises me are our numbers pre Cousins' sickness. I would have assumed our points for would have been around 22nd or so and our pts against in the top 10. Seemed like we were winning a lot of 85-80 games but I guess there were some high scoring ones thrown in as well. Either way they were like forget that boring winning stuff. Lets go back to the same exact crap that's made this a dumpster fire of a franchise for the last decade.
I guess the one positive is that Karl got us up to one of the best offensive teams without Collison for the most part. At least there is something we can build from.
I'm assuming this because a lot of rookies don't hit the ground running to where they are making net gains for their team. Especially when replacing a serviceable veteran like JT. I just didn't feel like it was Hollins/Evans/Landry's fault that we are picking 6th. Obviously they share the blame but I put most the blame on our SG's and PG's not named Collison. McLemore, Stauskas, Sessions and Ray Mac were bad and they played a lot of minutes.
I agree with you about JT there. That's one of the big reasons why I say he has his short comings. The sad thing is that basically the rest of the team is bad at man defense AND team defense. At least he gives you good 1 on 1 D.
I don't think WCS is going to be anything like Mikki Moore but I don't think he'll be nearly as well rounded as Noah. I'm thinking better than Noah on the defensive end but not even close on offense.
Orlando and New York scare the hell out me, because Cauley-Stein is the only choice, as far as I'm concerned.
He the only choice that fills an immediate need with the ability to play right away, I should say. You can argue for Porzingis, or Mudiay, or whomever, but WCS is the player the Kings need. If he's not available, you almost have to trade it, and then you are dealing without leverage because other teams likely know this.
In a roundabout way, I think it's Cauley-Stein or Lawson. I still have my reservations about adding Lawson, but if the Kings are going to improve drastically next season, it's hard to imagine that happening with help from the draft unless WCS is the pick, or its traded for veteran talent. I'd much rather see the pick dealt for Henson, Noah, or Noel, but we don't know how realistic that is.
I will say, if Lakers take Russell, Okafor slides to Philly, and Mudiay slides to #6, that opens the door up for a Noel trade in a major way.
He the only choice that fills an immediate need with the ability to play right away, I should say. You can argue for Porzingis, or Mudiay, or whomever, but WCS is the player the Kings need. If he's not available, you almost have to trade it, and then you are dealing without leverage because other teams likely know this.
In a roundabout way, I think it's Cauley-Stein or Lawson. I still have my reservations about adding Lawson, but if the Kings are going to improve drastically next season, it's hard to imagine that happening with help from the draft unless WCS is the pick, or its traded for veteran talent. I'd much rather see the pick dealt for Henson, Noah, or Noel, but we don't know how realistic that is.
I will say, if Lakers take Russell, Okafor slides to Philly, and Mudiay slides to #6, that opens the door up for a Noel trade in a major way.
I tend to agree.. If we don't get WCS and Mudiay falls to #6 then it's off to Denver for Mudiay and to Sacramento for Lawson and Faried (we would send another couple players to Denver as well). We would need to sign or trade for a better SG in my opinion. McLemore isn't going to cut it as the starter this year.
Manny doesn't have quickness of Wall.
And Stan struggles with speedy guys - simply not agile enough, so he will likely be effective at defending SFs only. He also doesn't have solid post game. Leonard is long with solid base and Draymond is thick, while Stanley is all upper body.
And once again Mclemore had the highest +/- after Boogie largely based on his defensive impact (in comparison, of course, to other guards on the team).
Last season:
Boogie w/o Ben, 906 possessions - 1.029 PPP/1.121 PPP against
Ben w/o Boogie, 2190 possessions - 1.048 PPP/1.129 PPP against
Both, 3045 possessions - 1.078 PPP/1.039 PPP against
This notion, that Mclemore was a drag to this team just like half the roster needs to go away. Yes, there is a couple of wings, who would be available this summer, that you can slot at SG and get clearly better production, there's also a few more, who will likely be better. But that doesn't account for another summer of improvement. Ben doesn't cover for others/make them better defensively, but he contributes his share on D, once he grasps the system.
Chandler is on the slower side for SFs. No way you can put him at 2, unles he completely re-works his body.
And Stan struggles with speedy guys - simply not agile enough, so he will likely be effective at defending SFs only. He also doesn't have solid post game. Leonard is long with solid base and Draymond is thick, while Stanley is all upper body.
And once again Mclemore had the highest +/- after Boogie largely based on his defensive impact (in comparison, of course, to other guards on the team).
Last season:
Boogie w/o Ben, 906 possessions - 1.029 PPP/1.121 PPP against
Ben w/o Boogie, 2190 possessions - 1.048 PPP/1.129 PPP against
Both, 3045 possessions - 1.078 PPP/1.039 PPP against
This notion, that Mclemore was a drag to this team just like half the roster needs to go away. Yes, there is a couple of wings, who would be available this summer, that you can slot at SG and get clearly better production, there's also a few more, who will likely be better. But that doesn't account for another summer of improvement. Ben doesn't cover for others/make them better defensively, but he contributes his share on D, once he grasps the system.
Chandler is on the slower side for SFs. No way you can put him at 2, unles he completely re-works his body.