Who do you consider to be part of our core moving forward?
- Thread starter rainmaker
- Start date
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Who I will absolutely move forward with:
-DeMarcus Cousins
-Tyreke Evans (However, with the right deal, and I thought Rondo would be the right deal... I would consider trading him)
Who I would be perfectly fine moving forward with
-Donte Greene (Yes, Donte Greene. As a cheap 12th man.. He's a great crowd and chemistry guy. I'd sign him for 10 years 10 million right now if I could.)
-Jason Thompson
-Marcus Thornton
Expendable in my opinion, but if you want to keep them, keep them.
Isaiah Thomas (I like what I see, but I don't consider him a must keep yet. His skills aren't exactly rare)
Jimmer Fredette
Francisco Garcia
Chuck Hayes
Hassan Whiteside
Tyler Honeycutt
No Thanks.
John Salmons
JJ Hickson
Travis Outlaw
-DeMarcus Cousins
-Tyreke Evans (However, with the right deal, and I thought Rondo would be the right deal... I would consider trading him)
Who I would be perfectly fine moving forward with
-Donte Greene (Yes, Donte Greene. As a cheap 12th man.. He's a great crowd and chemistry guy. I'd sign him for 10 years 10 million right now if I could.)
-Jason Thompson
-Marcus Thornton
Expendable in my opinion, but if you want to keep them, keep them.
Isaiah Thomas (I like what I see, but I don't consider him a must keep yet. His skills aren't exactly rare)
Jimmer Fredette
Francisco Garcia
Chuck Hayes
Hassan Whiteside
Tyler Honeycutt
No Thanks.
John Salmons
JJ Hickson
Travis Outlaw
Anthony1
Bench
1. Cousins
2. Thornton
3. Thomas
Everything else is 100 percent expendable in my book. (I'm not sold on Thomas either, but I'd like to hold onto him for awhile before trading him away or not signing him to a longer term deal)
Jimmer and Whiteside are two guys that I wouldn't mind keeping around, in the unlikely event that they blossom into decent NBA players. Whiteside has no real value to anybody else, might as well keep him as a project and see what happens. Jimmer might have "some" trade value, but I woudn't want to give him away for scraps. I don't think he will develop into any kind of superstar or anything, but he could be a serviceable 3pt specialist.
2. Thornton
3. Thomas
Everything else is 100 percent expendable in my book. (I'm not sold on Thomas either, but I'd like to hold onto him for awhile before trading him away or not signing him to a longer term deal)
Jimmer and Whiteside are two guys that I wouldn't mind keeping around, in the unlikely event that they blossom into decent NBA players. Whiteside has no real value to anybody else, might as well keep him as a project and see what happens. Jimmer might have "some" trade value, but I woudn't want to give him away for scraps. I don't think he will develop into any kind of superstar or anything, but he could be a serviceable 3pt specialist.
I think I am right there with you. Thanks for putting this together so I didn't have to.
We needed an offensive system to put our guys in a position to succeed and we have knee-jerked it way to hard until we sacrificed all semblance of defense. I believe we had enough talent last year to make the playoffs and I think we had enough talent this year(regardless of the offseason moves and how piece fit). WP(some of us called for his removal at the beginning of last season) just left us with a major hole of an offensive system and we didn't stop at the point were we fixed it(had a simple version in place we could start working on) we kept sliding smaller.
I asked for a team identity and we got one, but its not good.... I think I would rather go back to being unremarkable....
Yes Petrie made some really bad moves but we still should be better then we are showing despite that.
'89 Kings Fan
Bench
Since I am not in Sacramento, has there been any story on what the issue is with Donte from the Kings front office? Guys who can guard Dirk and Durant don't grow on trees. And since we have no interest in retaining him, any word on why we made no attempt to trade him?
Well, we don't hear much from Petrie anyway, so there won't be any word from the FO. It's not like they're going to say, "hey, we tried to move Salmons, but nobody wanted him. Guess we're stuck now." FTR, I don't think Donte should be moved. I think he's shown moments that tell us he could be the starting SF with consistent minutes, but then he goes to DNP-CD the next game. Doesn't make sense.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I'm starting to think that Thornton might not be part of the core. Once Tyreke moved to the 3, Thornton no longer was paired with somebody taller than himself. Whether it's IT or some other vet pg in the future, it's likely Thornton will still be the taller guard, and given his 6'2" stature as a SG, that poses some problems down the line. He's not a great defensive player, whether defending the 2 or the 1; he doesn't make players around him better. I'm just a little unsure about putting Thornton in the core without actually seeing him in the 6th man role and how he works coming off the bench.
Cousins and IT I see as core players. Their roles are clearly defined and they both look to me like they will get better.
Tyreke is a question mark for me as a core player. He's a valuable piece, no doubt. But I hesitate to put him as a core player because he can't seem to find a position. The pg doesn't work. The three may work, but defensively could hurt in some matchups. The two is an unknown because he's a non-shooting 2 guard. If he can improve his shooting he instantly is a core player because then he can be a 2 guard with a more defined role on this team.
Cousins and IT I see as core players. Their roles are clearly defined and they both look to me like they will get better.
Tyreke is a question mark for me as a core player. He's a valuable piece, no doubt. But I hesitate to put him as a core player because he can't seem to find a position. The pg doesn't work. The three may work, but defensively could hurt in some matchups. The two is an unknown because he's a non-shooting 2 guard. If he can improve his shooting he instantly is a core player because then he can be a 2 guard with a more defined role on this team.
Just a slight edit to your list from my point of view. I don't know that I'd move Evans at all, but I definitely see your logic.
Almost perfect for me too, EXCEPT that I think Marcus Thornton should be at the expendable or should be used as trade bait ASAP.
MT seems like wanting to be the main guy and therefore becoming a blackhole and very one-dimensional. It seems like for him, it is "ME, ME, ME" especially on offense bringing a lot of confusion on the hierarchy. IT is showing a tendency to become one too and now has the tendency to forget that he became a fan favorite for distributing the ball and not from forcing to score.
kingsfan101
Starter
I voted Cousins, Reke, MT, JT and Donte. Doesn't mean that any of these are untouchable (though Cousins and Reke are close). However, all these guys are young, have potential and fill a role. Plus, I believe that the core should be largely stable. Along with our pick this year (Davis, hopefully), we shall have the needed star power. We shall need role players to put around Cousins, Reke, pick, and get some veteran leaders. Think Cisco can fill that role to some extent.
MT needs to give us more though. His selfishness and gambling on defense bothers me much more than his one-dimensionality.
MT needs to give us more though. His selfishness and gambling on defense bothers me much more than his one-dimensionality.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
See, I don't think Marcus wants to be the main guy. I just don't. He isn't making 'main guy' money either.
I think Marcus is being ... whats the word, froze out? freezed out? whatever it is, he isn't getting the ball in good spots right now. In fact, he's hardly getting the ball at all, which obviously makes him look somewhat bad because everytime he IS getting it he's shooting it.
I put it this way in another thread..
Before IT became a starter, it was Evans as the primary ball handler, Marcus as the secondary ball handler.
Now that IT is starting, IT becomes the primary ball handler, Evans becomes the secondary ball handler, and Marcus is basically just 'the other guy'. He's been our bail out. Shot clock winding down? pass it to Marcus and he'll chuck up a 3.
And you know what? I actually think he's playing OK in his stupid role. He's being asked to guard guys like Tayshaun Prince which is just totally unfair. Getting burned on defense play after play cannot be good for your confidence. But he's still averaging around 20PPG.
I think he's better than he's been playing, but I think a lot of that has to do with his current role.
Cousins Reke, Hayes, IT, Jimmer are all players i'd keep around. Smart needs to wake the **** up and play Hayes with Cousins 25+ minutes a game like what was happening at the beginning of the year. He was averaging 10.3 boards a game until he got hurt in that starters role, while playing stellar defense next to Cousins.
You can't "realize" something that isn't true.
He's the first best scorer, anyway. Next is Cousins. POSSIBLY JT. Then maybe Evans.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I've warned you before about the trolling. Quit saying dumb things just to get a reaction.
Anthony1
Bench
I'm guessing that you feel that Tyreke is the 2nd best player on the Kings. Tyreke may be the more talented and gifted player, but that doesn't automatically make him better. What good is a player with all the talent that one could dream of, if his talents are no good for the system that you're running?
Now, I'm going to assume that you'd say something like this: "Which is why we should be running a system specifically designed to cater to Tyreke's talents".
My reply to that: "Why bend everything for one player? Why should everybody on our team, adjust their games, so that one player can truly shine? DeMarcus, Isaiah and MT are round pegs that fit into round holes. Tyreke is a square peg that can't fit into the round hole. The sooner our front office comes to grips with this reality, the better off we'd be.
Who's better, and who's a better fit are two different questions. And the answer is, Evans is a better player than Thornton, whether he's a better "fit," or not. But, more on that in a second.
It's not about bending everything for one player. That would be stupid, and it's something of a red herring to suggest that that's what's actually been happening.
We disagree strongly on what kind of "peg" Cousins is, and what kind of "holes" there are on the "board." I'll grant you, insofar as I'm willing to go along with the analogy, that Evans and Thornton are different kinds of "pegs." Which is to say that, if Evans is a "square peg," then Thornton is a "round peg." That's about as far as I'm willing to go with it. However, comma, if I were to continue to carry out that analogy, then I do not concede that Cousins is, also, a "round peg." Nor do I concede that the "board" is full of nothing but "round holes."
I believe that Cousins is an omnidirectional/interchangeable "peg." A universal remote, if you will, that can play with Evans or Thornton. There is certainly no evidence, at all, to suggest that Cousins and Evans can't play together. If there is any point at which we agree, it would be that the Kings play better with two of them, at least, in the starting lineup, where everybody else falls into line and understands their roles, than they do when it's all three of them. We clearly do not agree on which two.
I'm predisposed to trying a different system, that utilizes the strengths of Cousins, Evans and Thornton, before I throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm certainly not prepared to believe that failure on the parts of Westphal and Smart to integrate all three is any kind of "proof" that it can't be done.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
If the "system you're running" does not have room for your most talented players, then your system is the problem. Systems are irrelevant other than as ego boosts to coaches. Talent makes the league go round. You know what? Kobe didn't really fit the traingle. So they broke the system for him and let him freelance out of it. Used to kill Tex Winter. But that was just his ego talking. Coach's who have systems they are not willing to tweak to fit in talent are inevitable losers, or in Tex's case, impotent assistants.
And there is no system here that Tyreke does nto fit anyway. Nor is there a bigtime winning system that a 5'9" PG does fit. Nor really a winning system a SG as selfish as Marcus fits. This si all work in progress and players in progress. But if your system can't find a place for a phsycial elite driving guard who can do everythgin but shoot and fills up every corner of the statsheet...your system is ****.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
If the "system you're running" does not have room for your most talented players, then your system is the problem. Systems are irrelevant other than as ego boosts to coaches. Talent makes the league go round. You know what? Kobe didn't really fit the traingle. So they broke the system for him and let him freelance out of it. Used to kill Tex Winter. But that was just his ego talking. Coach's who have systems they are not willing to tweak to fit in talent are inevitable losers, or in Tex's case, impotent assistants.
And there is no system here that Tyreke does nto fit anyway. Nor is there a bigtime winning system that a 5'9" PG does fit. Nor really a winning system a SG as selfish as Marcus fits. This is all work in progress and players in progress. But if your system can't find a place for a physical 6'5" elite driving guard who can do everything but shoot and fills up every corner of the statsheet...your system is ****.
The Hammer
All-Star
This is a ridiculous statement.
If Evans develops a consistent jumper he is pretty much automatic to become a superstar. Superstar defined as a perennial all-star.
Gary
All-Star
And if Thomas developed a pituitary problem that grew him about 5 inches before they rectified it then he could be a star too. As it stands now Evans is a decent player. Probably in the top 25% league wide. To get to the top 5% he needs that jumper. Right now though it seems like he falls back and heaves it way up in the air and prays it goes in.
The Hammer
All-Star
No.
The statement that describes Evans as a "solid player" is still ridiculous, even after your "assessment".
Evans was just ranked 47th best in the league. There are around 400 players in the NBA. These ratings also placed Kevin Martin above him, which is wrong. A more accurate rating system would put Evans at around 40. Top 10-12%.
Saying he's "probably" top 25 % exposes a serious inability to objectively judge Evans current talent level, let alone assess his overall value given the context of his young career and likelyhood of correcting a very fixable fundamental skill.
That being the case, your statements about Evans should not be taken seriously.
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Marcus is a damn fine player. He's got his 3 pointer, and floater game at a very good level right now. But as of now, i think he's competing against Reke for that #2 spot. That's where i think Reke has MT beat. Reke's got the body, and the skillset ( though limited ), to be something special... I wouldn't mind if MT started on the bench, and ended up playing 20+ minutes if need be. But Reke and Cousins has to be given the opportunity to operate, without anything holding them back. They need to be given the opportunity to lead the game... As of now, we've got IT/MT/Reke and Cousins, in the lineup... I do not think that Reke and Cuz can operate freely, if IT and MT is in the lineup.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Give Reke a jumper, he's clearly better than MT with a jumper, as he already stuffs the stat sheet without. When MT isn't hitting his jumpers, Reke is considerably better, as Reke impacts games in a number of ways without the jumper. Now MT hitting his jumper vs Reke not having one= kingsfans arguing to no end.
