Who are your picks if the Kings win a top 3 pick in the Draft Lottery?
- Thread starter ockingsfan
- Start date
More great points. And also ties into my point about why teams didn’t pioneer and adapt this new style long ago.
Not that long ago, James Harden’s cross over step back wasn’t legal. I’m still not sure it is legal today, but they don’t call it traveling. However, 20 years ago they did. Same goes for the euro step.
Then factor in rule changes such as eliminating hand checking and it’s no mystery why teams shooting and scoring efficiency has risen.
I don’t care what anyone says, the players of today aren’t better shooters than Larry Bird or even the players of the 60’s and 70’s who were all funadamentally sound shooters. It’s the movement, dribbling and rules around defense that’s changed. I mean, if they one day change the rules to the point where dribbling is no longer used, players are gonna get free and score even more. That’s an extreme, hyperbolic, and unrealistic example, I know, but still true.
Not that long ago, James Harden’s cross over step back wasn’t legal. I’m still not sure it is legal today, but they don’t call it traveling. However, 20 years ago they did. Same goes for the euro step.
Then factor in rule changes such as eliminating hand checking and it’s no mystery why teams shooting and scoring efficiency has risen.
I don’t care what anyone says, the players of today aren’t better shooters than Larry Bird or even the players of the 60’s and 70’s who were all funadamentally sound shooters. It’s the movement, dribbling and rules around defense that’s changed. I mean, if they one day change the rules to the point where dribbling is no longer used, players are gonna get free and score even more. That’s an extreme, hyperbolic, and unrealistic example, I know, but still true.
Let’s say we win the lottery what do you guys think we should do. Might as well talk about it till lottery.
Do you take Ayton who could be a 20-10 guy with mediocre to good defense.
If you take Doncic does Fox fit with Doncic and Bogdan.
I’d take Doncic trade Fox to Cleveland for Mikal Bridges. That way all 3 players are elite shooters with Bridges defending the other teams best wing or PG. Also we’d be a team that could switch 1-5 with that lineup as well.
Do you take Ayton who could be a 20-10 guy with mediocre to good defense.
If you take Doncic does Fox fit with Doncic and Bogdan.
I’d take Doncic trade Fox to Cleveland for Mikal Bridges. That way all 3 players are elite shooters with Bridges defending the other teams best wing or PG. Also we’d be a team that could switch 1-5 with that lineup as well.
I love Doncic, but I would take Ayton. I'm just not a big fan of a Fox-Bogdan-Doncic backcourt because they're all ball dominant players. I also wouldn't trade Fox for Mikal. If we did land Doncic, I'd trade Bogdan+filter for Mikal.
Fox-Mikal-Doncic. I'd have Doncic as our lead ball handler, or maybe in the Lebron role. I'd hope that Fox learns to function without the ball....
Fox-Mikal-Doncic. I'd have Doncic as our lead ball handler, or maybe in the Lebron role. I'd hope that Fox learns to function without the ball....
Mikal is a better off-ball player. He's also a better defender than Bogdan. I've knocked Mikal on his size, but as long as he bulks up considerably, he'll be able to guard SFs. The same can't be said for Bogdan. Mikal would just be a better fit next to Fox and Doncic. He doesn't command for the ball and he has a large impact on the defensive end.
Bridges is younger at 22yearsold, and we'd have him under control for 4 years under the rookie sale. (ages at the start of the season)
Bogdan is older at 26yearsold, and we only have him under control for 2 more years.
Bridges is younger at 22yearsold, and we'd have him under control for 4 years under the rookie sale. (ages at the start of the season)
Bogdan is older at 26yearsold, and we only have him under control for 2 more years.
It's only a bad thing when someone can't shoot. If Fox never develops a consistent shot, then it won't work very well.
Personally I think if we wound up with Doncic and he turned out to be a really good player, I think you'd have to ship Fox out and find yourself more of a Bibby type PG unless Fox miraculously turns into a good 3pt shooter.
The funny thing is that George Hill would be the perfect fit in that type of role.
Personally I think if we wound up with Doncic and he turned out to be a really good player, I think you'd have to ship Fox out and find yourself more of a Bibby type PG unless Fox miraculously turns into a good 3pt shooter.
The funny thing is that George Hill would be the perfect fit in that type of role.
I saw more ball movement this season on the Kings than I've seen in the last 5 or 6 years, and that was with your so called ball dominate players. There's perception, and then there's reality, and the reality is, the ball got moved well this year. It didn't always result in a basket, but it's the beginning of a good foundation. The player that was ball dominate was Hill, who would pound the ball for 15 seconds of every possession if he had the chance, with no apparent plan in mind. Bogs on the other hand, might dribble for 10 or 12 seconds, but it always ended with a pass to an open man.
There's a difference between a player that's creating, and a player that's just an iso player looking for his own shot. AKA Rudy Gay! AKA Isaiah Thomas! And sometimes, Cousins!. Webber was a great scorer, but he was also a great passer, and he unselfishly passed the ball when there was someone open. It really comes down to whether a player is willing to buy into the system or not. If a player is coachable, then the more skills that player has is a benefit, not a problem.
There's a difference between a player that's creating, and a player that's just an iso player looking for his own shot. AKA Rudy Gay! AKA Isaiah Thomas! And sometimes, Cousins!. Webber was a great scorer, but he was also a great passer, and he unselfishly passed the ball when there was someone open. It really comes down to whether a player is willing to buy into the system or not. If a player is coachable, then the more skills that player has is a benefit, not a problem.
Just so you know, Jalen Brunson when asked in an interview who the strongest player on the team was, said it was Bridges. I'm not saying that Bridges doesn't need to get stronger. Just about every player coming into the league needs to get stronger. What I'm saying is that I don't think it's an issue. Since you brought up this age thing again, let me address it, and play devils advocate a bit. The idea, if I'm comprehending it correctly, is that if a player comes over at the age of 25, it's pretty much, what you see is what you get. I suppose that can be true, but I don't think that's the rule.
Lets start with Bogdanovic's final stats for this year:
Bogdanovic: 11.8 ppg - 44.6% fgp - 39.2% 3pp - 2.9 rpg - 3.3 apg - 0.9 spg
Not earth shattering but not bad for a first year in the NBA. And if age is the factor, he shouldn't get significantly better. Lets see how history treats that theory. Lets start with Drazen Petrovic, who I compared Bog's with before he came over to join the Kings. Similar size, skill set, and toughness. And same age.
Petrovic 1st yr: 7.6 ppg - 48.5% fgp - 45.9% 3pp - 1.4 rpg - 1.5 apg - 0.3 spg
Petrovic 3rd yr: 20.6 ppg - 50.8% fgp - 44.4% 3pp - 3.1 rpg - 3.1 apg - 1.3 spg
Hmmm, I think I see some improvement there. How about one of my all time favorite players when he was on the Kings. Sarunas Marciulionis. Also 25 years old.
Marciulionis 1st yr: 12.1 ppg - 51.9% fgp - 25.6% 3pp - 2.9 rpg - 1.6 apg - 1.3 spg
Marciulionis 3rd yr: 18.9 ppg - 53.8% fgp - 30.0% 3pp - 2.9 rpg - 3.4 apg - 1.6 spg
It took Sarunas another couple of year to get his 3pp up close to 40%, but other than that, he improved. How about Manu Ginobli. 25 years old.
Ginobli 1st yr: 7.6 ppg - 43.8% fgp - 34.5% 3pp - 2.3 rpg - 2.0 apg - 1.4 spg
Ginobli 3rd yr: 16.0 ppg - 47.1% fgp - 37.6% 3pp - 4.4 rpg - 3.9 apg - 1.6 spg
Wow, once again, he got better. How about the player people confuse with Bog's. Bojan Bogdanovic. He also came over at age 25. I have his 4th, and current yr listed because he played on 3 different teams in his 3rd yr.
Bojan 1st yr: 9.0 ppg - 45.3% fgp - 35.5% 3pp - 2.7 rpg - 0.9 apg - 0.4 spg
Bojan 4th yr: 14.3 ppg - 47.4% fgp - 40.2% 3pp - 3.4 rpg - 1.5 apg - 0.7 spg
Once again, improvement. Lets do one more just for fun. How about Toni Kukoc, who also came over at 25 years of age.
Kukoc 1st yr: 10.9 ppg - 43.1% fgp - 27.1% 3pp - 4.0 rpg - 3.4 apg - 1.1 spg
Kukoc 3rd yr: 13.1 ppg - 49.0% fgp - 40.3% 3pp - 4.0 rpg - 3.5 apg - 0.8 spg
Kukoc's big jump took place in his fifth year in the league when he started averaging around 18 ppg. He was a borderline all star from that point on every year. I could do Detlef Schrempf as well, who turned 24 shortly after his first season started. All these players had solid if not great NBA careers except of course Petrovic who was tragically killed in an accident. One could argue that Bog's first year is as good, if not better than some of these players, so there's no reason to believe his career won't follow a similar path of improvement.
The idea that a player reaches a certain age, and can't improve from that point on is ridiculous. It's an individual thing. As the great golfer Ken Venturi once said, "The more I practice, the luckier I get".
Lets start with Bogdanovic's final stats for this year:
Bogdanovic: 11.8 ppg - 44.6% fgp - 39.2% 3pp - 2.9 rpg - 3.3 apg - 0.9 spg
Not earth shattering but not bad for a first year in the NBA. And if age is the factor, he shouldn't get significantly better. Lets see how history treats that theory. Lets start with Drazen Petrovic, who I compared Bog's with before he came over to join the Kings. Similar size, skill set, and toughness. And same age.
Petrovic 1st yr: 7.6 ppg - 48.5% fgp - 45.9% 3pp - 1.4 rpg - 1.5 apg - 0.3 spg
Petrovic 3rd yr: 20.6 ppg - 50.8% fgp - 44.4% 3pp - 3.1 rpg - 3.1 apg - 1.3 spg
Hmmm, I think I see some improvement there. How about one of my all time favorite players when he was on the Kings. Sarunas Marciulionis. Also 25 years old.
Marciulionis 1st yr: 12.1 ppg - 51.9% fgp - 25.6% 3pp - 2.9 rpg - 1.6 apg - 1.3 spg
Marciulionis 3rd yr: 18.9 ppg - 53.8% fgp - 30.0% 3pp - 2.9 rpg - 3.4 apg - 1.6 spg
It took Sarunas another couple of year to get his 3pp up close to 40%, but other than that, he improved. How about Manu Ginobli. 25 years old.
Ginobli 1st yr: 7.6 ppg - 43.8% fgp - 34.5% 3pp - 2.3 rpg - 2.0 apg - 1.4 spg
Ginobli 3rd yr: 16.0 ppg - 47.1% fgp - 37.6% 3pp - 4.4 rpg - 3.9 apg - 1.6 spg
Wow, once again, he got better. How about the player people confuse with Bog's. Bojan Bogdanovic. He also came over at age 25. I have his 4th, and current yr listed because he played on 3 different teams in his 3rd yr.
Bojan 1st yr: 9.0 ppg - 45.3% fgp - 35.5% 3pp - 2.7 rpg - 0.9 apg - 0.4 spg
Bojan 4th yr: 14.3 ppg - 47.4% fgp - 40.2% 3pp - 3.4 rpg - 1.5 apg - 0.7 spg
Once again, improvement. Lets do one more just for fun. How about Toni Kukoc, who also came over at 25 years of age.
Kukoc 1st yr: 10.9 ppg - 43.1% fgp - 27.1% 3pp - 4.0 rpg - 3.4 apg - 1.1 spg
Kukoc 3rd yr: 13.1 ppg - 49.0% fgp - 40.3% 3pp - 4.0 rpg - 3.5 apg - 0.8 spg
Kukoc's big jump took place in his fifth year in the league when he started averaging around 18 ppg. He was a borderline all star from that point on every year. I could do Detlef Schrempf as well, who turned 24 shortly after his first season started. All these players had solid if not great NBA careers except of course Petrovic who was tragically killed in an accident. One could argue that Bog's first year is as good, if not better than some of these players, so there's no reason to believe his career won't follow a similar path of improvement.
The idea that a player reaches a certain age, and can't improve from that point on is ridiculous. It's an individual thing. As the great golfer Ken Venturi once said, "The more I practice, the luckier I get".
What about guys like Marko Jaric, Andres Nocioni, Tiago Spitter, or Gordan Giricek who didn't make these major jumps? As you said, every case is different. I think his highest ceiling in the NBA is your 3rd best player. I think he caps out at 16ppg +4apg on solid averages for a few seasons. One of us will be right or wrong. We'll see how he develops in 2 years. One of us will be right. I don't care about being wrong, I've been wrong more than I'd like to admit. Even if I'm wrong, it means we'll have a very good player.
I didn't necessarily see the same ball movement that you saw this year. It helped that we no longer had an ISO player after Joerger finally benched ZBo. What I saw was more passing after Joerger finally ran more PnR with WCS. ...seems to be a trend on coaching.
I didn't necessarily see the same ball movement that you saw this year. It helped that we no longer had an ISO player after Joerger finally benched ZBo. What I saw was more passing after Joerger finally ran more PnR with WCS. ...seems to be a trend on coaching.