Whither goest the Kings?

[Glenn]

People seldom read long notes but I hope people read this one.

I don't think we are going to see a whole lot of changes. This is the PW offense which depends a great deal on the players getting to know each other and working things out among themselves. Even at that, these guys barely know each other. I don't have to document the lack of time Salmons and Hayes have had with the team. We played half of our preseason games with three starters missing.

Where are the pick and rolls? Where is all the simple stuff that all teams can run? Maybe some of it will appear at some point in the season but there is no time to practice in this compacted schedule. We start the season with 5 games in 6 days or at least so someone said. I didn't check but whether it's that awful or not but the point is that this season leaves no time to insert offenses. Heck, the Lakers started with three in a row.

Some wise man said that most coaches have little effect on their teams. Then there are the extraordinary ones. There are a few that can make their teams great or at least far better than you would expect and then there are the few that can make their teams far worse than you would expect. I think PW is near the bottom. After all, he came to the Kings asking for a job and offered himself at a minimum salary. It's not like we laid out heavy cash to get one of those few that make a team better. I would like to think we were tanking as part of a rebuild but I doubt it. I think the team was trying to save money. The ugly truth is that he may be better than the three that preceded him.

PW seems to be a nice enough guy but he couldn't inspire me to play, that's for sure. I suspect part of the reason Daly didn't want to come back is because of PW. Who knows but if a better coach was here, I suspect Daly would be here.

Anyway, get used to mayhem and hope and pray that the defensive intensity wins us a few games. I think it will. We are a far better team on defense this year then in a long time. Perhaps ever (going out on a limb). This city is getting too used to losing and I wonder how many fans deep in their heart think it will ever be different. I have watched the team since 1985 and I can't say I went to the games sitting on my father's knee. Actually, I was taking my kids from the beginning and they were far too big to sit on my knee. We lost and lost and lost and I don't remember the exact record for futility we set (roughly 10 seasons without popping over the .500 mark) but we still screamed and yelled. Then we got good. It was the perfect storm, Sacrameto style. We got a troubled and troublesome big guy wearing #4, Vlade wanted to be in California to be nearer his wife and probably to escape the very foreign culture of North Carolina. A few other pieces got inserted and we were very good for awhile. These glory years, as we like to call them, did not even result in an NBA championship game but it was fun.

Our expectations are low but not so low as to put up with what we have now. We want more, I hope. Not this year. The compacted scheduled has doomed us but also it is PW and ultimately it is the ownership. This will not change to impact this year.

My question for myself is what will I get out of this to enjoy it? I have to set certain goals as the W/L record may not keep my attention and frankly, to me, W/L record is THE bottom line that counts. All the dunks, threes, and magnificent athletic moves no longer thrill me as I have seen it all and done by better people.

I will watch Cuz mature because he will. I mean his game and not so much his mind although I think I see him as a little calmer this year. He is leaner, quicker, has better hops, and doesn't seem to tire. This shows that the guy "gets it." He understands his potential and is willing to work to achieve it.

I will watch Hayes as it is a wonder that a guy his size can do what he does. We got him at a bargain and going forward, for the team's sake, he may have been the most important pickup this year. Hey, he's the only FA to want to be here since Vlade!

I'll watch Thornton (note the spelling of his name). It's difficult to believe a 2nd rounder can be a star but he may be one of those rare ones. I will be very surprised if he isn't our leading scorer.

I will watch Jimmer. Jimmer may be the most exciting one to watch. He SHOULD catch on to the things that are hurting him now as he is savvy and simply needs experience. We got a good one.

I'll watch Tyreke. I am not so excited about his offense anymore and he concerns me. I hope with nudging by PW and Hayes he truly becomes an elite peripheral defender.

That's it. It's part of being a fan of the Kings. Set your goals low or you will not enjoy it. At the same time, hope that someone else buys this team and serious money is invested in bringing a winner to Sacramento. We have the start of something pretty good but we have to have the cash to get a coach and we have to have the cash to bid on star free agents. We need to quit worrying about "overpaying."

 

[Chupacabra]

I read it! I dont really set goals as a form of keeping my interest. I just really enjoy basketball. I also very much enjoy the notion of a limited-small market team going out and crushing self entitled, deep pocketed ones. I like teams that are constructed well rather than teams that are simply paid for.

This years Kings squad has a ton of weapons. What they lack is an understanding of what it takes to win in the NBA. This year, more so than in years past, the Kings look poised to make a move in the right direction. When I look at the moves that have been made by the FO and I look at certain qualites that players on our roster possess I feel like the Kings now have most of the pieces needed to start a winning tradition again. I think our coach is a little questionable. However after two games hes used the same starting lineup and similar rotations in each game. I give credit where its due the same way I give criticism. So far, all be it a small sample size, Westphal is doing a good job.

 

[lwc]

I read it bud. I think you are over-reacting just a little. This team played well in the 1st game. Played terrible in the second game. After 20 games, let's revisit this. True, you have been a fan longer than I have been alive, and you have seen more Kings games than me. I have been a fan my whole life. I was the weird little kid that was a Mitch Richmond fan cheering for the Kings instead of the Bulls and Jordan, lol.

 

[IfAt1st]

I don't think we are going to see a whole lot of changes. This is the PW offense which depends a great deal on the players getting to know each other and working things out among themselves.

Where are the pick and rolls? Where is all the simple stuff that all teams can run? Maybe some of it will appear at some point in the season but there is no time to practice in this compacted schedule.

I read it all, and agree with almost all.

I've been harping about the complete lack of typical NBA plays (like pick-and-rolls and screens that almost every other team can do) since long before I joined here. I fear that these Kings will NEVER be competitive without implementing a reliable offense like this against the pressure defenses like the Blazers played last night.

I agree with every one of your takes about the players.
I agree with your central (unanswered) premise - how much W/L will it take for you to be satisfied with this team?
For me, it is not a specific number - for me, it is about whether the Kings become "competitive" this year.
What I mean by "competitive" is that they can win a good % of the time against a serious team, playing hard, in close games.
Last year, most of their wins came against bad teams, or against better teams that weren't playing very hard (or well). Whenever a good team plays hard against these Kings (like last night), they lose 90% of the time IMO.

Losing IS part of being a Kings fan, as I've been since they got here in 85.

Being OK with the coaching not trying to do what other teams do is NOT.
Being OK with the FO not paying a few million $ more to get a proven NBA coach (and system) is NOT.

Unlike you, I don't think "maybe these things (pick-and-rolls and screens) will happen at some point in the season" - on the contrary, I think it has been effectively proven that they will not come, since they've never been seriously attempted by the Kings for years, and there's no way they're going to happen with this protracted practice schedule. They haven't tried them the past 2 years, with full practice time and full preseason camps.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I'm withholding judgement/assessment of this team until we get at least15-20 games into the season. Not only are they a young team but they have a largely new roster. Those alone are ingredients for a rough start but when you factor in the lack of preparation time this season, you should expect some ugly basketball for awhile. It's not just the Kings either, lots of teams are looking pretty ragged right now.

 

[pshn80]

I read it! I dont really set goals as a form of keeping my interest. I just really enjoy basketball. I also very much enjoy the notion of a limited-small market team going out and crushing self entitled, deep pocketed ones. I like teams that are constructed well rather than teams that are simply paid for.

This years Kings squad has a ton of weapons. What they lack is an understanding of what it takes to win in the NBA. This year, more so than in years past, the Kings look poised to make a move in the right direction. When I look at the moves that have been made by the FO and I look at certain qualites that players on our roster possess I feel like the Kings now have most of the pieces needed to start a winning tradition again. I think our coach is a little questionable. However after two games hes used the same starting lineup and similar rotations in each game. I give credit where its due the same way I give criticism. So far, all be it a small sample size, Westphal is doing a good job.

I didn't read it (sorry Glenn but there's too much on these threads, I have to use my remaining eye sight more sparingly).

Chupacabra (I hope I have it right), I like your POV in this post. Some guys in particular played poorly last night so let's move on and learn from the experience.

 

[Kings Faithful]

The 1999 Kings lost their second game by 13 points to the T-Wolves before going on a huge win streak. I be we were freaked out then too, so im not to worried this time.

 

[Telemachus]

Some wise man said that most coaches have little effect on their teams. Then there are the extraordinary ones.

When people look at how coaches affect a team, they always seem to focus on the difference between a great coach and a good coach (which I think is more noticeable in the post season). I think people should focus more on the difference between a good coach and a bad coach. I think a bad coach can make a much bigger difference (in a negative way) on a team than they are given credit for.

 

[SacTownKid]

The 1999 Kings lost their second game by 13 points to the T-Wolves before going on a huge win streak. I be we were freaked out then too, so im not to worried this time.

I'm not concerned about the loss in the least. What I'm concerned about is the complete lack of any evidence of the system Westphal says he is going to run. I'm seeing the same gameplan this team ran with at it's worst last year.

 

[SacTownKid]

When people look at how coaches affect a team, they always seem to focus on the difference between a great coach and a good coach (which I think is more noticeable in the post season). I think people should focus more on the difference between a good coach and a bad coach. I think a bad coach can make a much bigger difference (in a negative way) on a team than they are given credit for.

Yes, this is 100% correct. At the end of the day it's the coach that puts his players in a position from which to work from, right now there is no distictive element as to what that is exactly. Not a single one.

 

[swisshh]

I read it! I dont really set goals as a form of keeping my interest. I just really enjoy basketball. I also very much enjoy the notion of a limited-small market team going out and crushing self entitled, deep pocketed ones. I like teams that are constructed well rather than teams that are simply paid for.

This years Kings squad has a ton of weapons. What they lack is an understanding of what it takes to win in the NBA. This year, more so than in years past, the Kings look poised to make a move in the right direction. When I look at the moves that have been made by the FO and I look at certain qualites that players on our roster possess I feel like the Kings now have most of the pieces needed to start a winning tradition again. I think our coach is a little questionable. However after two games hes used the same starting lineup and similar rotations in each game. I give credit where its due the same way I give criticism. So far, all be it a small sample size, Westphal is doing a good job.

But this Kings team plays ugly, bad basketball. Especially on offense, but the defense isn't much better. They make amateur mistakes. They are also a poorly constructed team that is undersized and imbalanced, with too many blackholes on offense and no leadership to correct the errors.

So by your own standards, the Kings are not worth watching. How do you twist them into something wonderful?

 

[Bricklayer]

But this Kings team plays ugly, bad basketball. Especially on offense, but the defense isn't much better. They make amateur mistakes. They are also a poorly constructed team that is undersized and imbalanced, with too many blackholes on offense and no leadership to correct the errors.

So by your own standards, the Kings are not worth watching. How do you twist them into something wonderful?

Okay, I suppose at this point I will point out that this team is now 1-1 and played some rather good basketball on both ends of the court in the first game. Even played well defensively for the first half or so last night.

And as an aside, all young teams play ugly bad basketball at least for a couple of years. They also, btw, rather notriously play like two different teams at hoe and on the road. We're a bit odd in that we are stuck eternally in young team mode. Normally you are about the youngest team for a year, and then start to naturally age. We on the other hand have kept on cycling in more young players and draft picks and have not been able to find a critical mass of vets to help us mature.

 

[swisshh]

I've watched the Cavs and the Twolves, both young teams with relatively new coaches, and both seem to show more of a system and strategy than the Kings. Even in the win against the Lakers, I am not sure there was cause to think anything had truly changed. The team had the benefit of playing an older team, with some off-season drama, on a back to back while enjoying the boost of the energy of a home opener. The offense still broke down in that game, but Thornton bailed them out.

When the Cavs or Wolves look bad, it's because they abandon their normal attack, but you see something within the original philosophy that works. The Kings abandon something that is barely even there to begin with.

 

[kingsboi]

I must admit, watching this offense at times is depressing. The players we have are good enough to keep us competitive all year long, I'm sorry but draft picks in the lottery time and time again has to eventually pay off, no?

 

[Kingster]

I did see one nice pick and roll in which Jimmer gave a nice bounce pass to Cousins. If it can be done once, it can continue to be done! There is hope!

 

[Italics]

I did see one nice pick and roll in which Jimmer gave a nice bounce pass to Cousins. If it can be done once, it can continue to be done! There is hope!

He's had several good passes. Jimmer has been far from perfect, but at the moment I think he's running the offense better than any other guard.

If only he could stop shooting so poorly in the second half... not sure what's up with that.

 

[bajaden]

But this Kings team plays ugly, bad basketball. Especially on offense, but the defense isn't much better. They make amateur mistakes. They are also a poorly constructed team that is undersized and imbalanced, with too many blackholes on offense and no leadership to correct the errors.

So by your own standards, the Kings are not worth watching. How do you twist them into something wonderful?

I don't entirely agree with Chupacabra's opinion, but surprise, I agree with yours even less. I suspect that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. What I don't understand, is if you think this team is so bad, and bordering on unwatchable, then why watch? Why not go root for another team where you can have some fun. I, and most intelligent basketball fans know quite well the problems with this team. We may not agree on the degree to which you paint them, but trust me, we can see what you can see. So we don't have to be beaten over the head with them. Which frankly gets a little tiresome at times.

There are at least 7 new players on this team of which 3 are rookies. 2 of the five starters wern't on the team last season. We had a two week training camp and two exhibition games to get everybody on the same page. Knowing that, I didn't expect this team to come out and look like a well oiled machine. And if you did, which I doubt, then your crazy. I expect teams that have most of their usual suspects back to get off to a much better start than those teams that are loaded with youth, or had a large change to their rosters.

Now if want to agrue that we shouldn't be in this position, and that if management had done a better job we'd have a team with a better mix of young and experienced players. Maybe so! But its an abstract argument that can't be proven or disproven. Its like me saying that there aren't any elephants in my living room because I sprayed with anti-elephant spray. Bottom line is, were stuck with what we currently have. You can try and find something to be optimistic about, or you can continually ***** about what we don't have. And Hey! If you think bitching will make you feel better, then have at it. I'm all for releasing pent up stress. I just happen to think there are some things to be excited about with this team. Those things may or may not add up to more wins, but I'll still be optimistic about the future. Of which I probably have less than you do. And if so, I should be the one bitching.

I'm not trying to be overly critical of you. I just wish you had the same passion for the good things you see on the team as you do for the things you find wrong. There's a difference for instance, in saying that Tyreke had a terrible game last night, or saying based on last nights performance, Tyreke is terrible and always will be. One point I can agree with, and the other I can't. Now that may be an exaggeration, but I think you get my point. I just can't take you seriously when just about everything you say is negative. Maybe thats actually what you believe, and if so, then I'm sorry. Its certainly no fun to have that kind of outlook. Thats what sports is susposed to be about, isn't it? Enjoyment and fun. When I played, I had fun, even when I lost. Don't get me wrong. No one wanted to win more than I did. But I wouldn't let the loss take away the fun of playing the game. Half the time I didn't even know what the score was until it was near the end of the game.

Anyway, there's no hard feeling here. Just a lack of understanding of how anyone can hate something he susposedly loves so much. I will admit this much though. I think our coach is terrible, and I think the team reflects that. I won't be surprised if Keith Smart is the coach by midseason.