Whiteside impressed me more than Cousins

Vlade4GM

Vlade4GM

All-Star
#1
#1
Whiteside didn't show me much in terms of skills that I didn't already know about him, but he did show a good attitude on the court and good activity. His bb IQ is lacking but he shows a solid jump shot (showed the wability to hit the bank shot), good hands, and a very good touch around the basket. He showed me that even though he is very raw and probably won't get many minutes, he is going to be aggressive, play hard and work to get better.

Cousins on the other hand played like a child. There's no doubt he showed tremendous skill level for a center, but the between the ears stuff disappointed me. It's not all his fault because the guard play on that team really sucked and everyone was looking for their own shot, so on some instances it's hard to blame him for not being aggressive on the block. The problem though is that when things didn't go his way, he started throwing his head back and swinging his arms, and basically getting lazy and sluggish. His motor was off and on and I don't really buy the fatigue excuse entirely, I'm sure fatigue and conditioning was an issue but it seemed as though he can turn it on when he wanted to. I don't like how easily discouraged and frustrated he gets (and personally, I don't care what his reasons are, there are no excuses), he has a lot of maturing left to do.

It seemed as though he had a lot of problems when facing stronger and tougher opponents, even though most of them are borderline NBA players. If he couldn't back his man down he'd take an off balanced jumper, or stay out on the perimeter to shoot a 20 footer, make a risky pass, or make an awkward dribble drive to the basket. He can face up well for a 280 lbs center, but he's not a face up player, especially 20 feet out. He really needs to work on staying under control and playing smart. If he gets this frustrated and discouraged by these summer league guys, then he is in for a rude awakening in the NBA. The coaches are going to need to kick his butt like Calipari did if they don't want him to fall into some really bad habits. Before the SPL I wanted him to start, but based on what I saw I don't think he's ready for starting minutes. Keep the leash short and make him earn his minutes by being an aggressive post player and showing a good demeanor on the court.

I still think he can and will be a very good player, but I don't think it will be as soon as I originally thought. We'll see how he looks in preseason though.
 
A

apollo916

Bench
#2
#2
learn a few post moves he'll be a star. He needs that KG fadeaway. Ive always appreciated Hassan's game more than DMC. He wants to be the best defensive player in the league, and thats str8 from the horses mouth. Gain 20 pounds of muscle and dont look back.
 
UK_King

UK_King

Starter
#4
#4
He plays with a demeanour like Perkins; obviously I'm happy he expects more of himself but in a long long season we're going to have a lot of disappointing games and he'll have to deal with it.

its all just part of growing up take the rough with the smooth.
 
P

Prince_XY

Starter
#5
#5
Vlade4GM said:
Whiteside didn't show me much in terms of skills that I didn't already know about him, but he did show a good attitude on the court and good activity. His bb IQ is lacking but he shows a solid jump shot (showed the wability to hit the bank shot), good hands, and a very good touch around the basket. He showed me that even though he is very raw and probably won't get many minutes, he is going to be aggressive, play hard and work to get better.

Cousins on the other hand played like a child. There's no doubt he showed tremendous skill level for a center, but the between the ears stuff disappointed me. It's not all his fault because the guard play on that team really sucked and everyone was looking for their own shot, so on some instances it's hard to blame him for not being aggressive on the block. The problem though is that when things didn't go his way, he started throwing his head back and swinging his arms, and basically getting lazy and sluggish. His motor was off and on and I don't really buy the fatigue excuse entirely, I'm sure fatigue and conditioning was an issue but it seemed as though he can turn it on when he wanted to. I don't like how easily discouraged and frustrated he gets (and personally, I don't care what his reasons are, there are no excuses), he has a lot of maturing left to do.

It seemed as though he had a lot of problems when facing stronger and tougher opponents, even though most of them are borderline NBA players. If he couldn't back his man down he'd take an off balanced jumper, or stay out on the perimeter to shoot a 20 footer, make a risky pass, or make an awkward dribble drive to the basket. He can face up well for a 280 lbs center, but he's not a face up player, especially 20 feet out. He really needs to work on staying under control and playing smart. If he gets this frustrated and discouraged by these summer league guys, then he is in for a rude awakening in the NBA. The coaches are going to need to kick his butt like Calipari did if they don't want him to fall into some really bad habits. Before the SPL I wanted him to start, but based on what I saw I don't think he's ready for starting minutes. Keep the leash short and make him earn his minutes by being an aggressive post player and showing a good demeanor on the court.

I still think he can and will be a very good player, but I don't think it will be as soon as I originally thought. We'll see how he looks in preseason though.
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You might want to change your title to " I am disappointed with Cousins' VSL performance" if 3 quarters of your post are about Cousins' failing to meet your expectations.

Go on. Edit your post. There is nothing wrong with bashing the "new darling" of Sacramento especially that you are only giving your observation of his VSL plays and not projection of what he should become.:p
 
PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#6
#6
I agree with OP. Before SL most here (or at least 50%) were in favor of DMC starting over Dalembert - I wasn't part of that rah-rah bandwagon. I doubt sentiment is nearly as strong now that they've seen repeated childish antics from the 19 year old - with a helluva lot of NBA growing up to do - but so much unbelievable potential. On the otherhand, many were saying Whiteside was too raw, a total project, no way he could ever duplicate anything like that dominating defensive presence displayed at Marshall Univ. Seems there's definitely a spot on Kings bench for Hassan to learn the NBA ropes (and probably faster than if dominating the NBA-DL) plus he'll get endless time to chat up a storm sitting right next to Boggie on ups and downs of NBA life - while both do the usual carry bags plus other rookie chores. When season starts, maybe 10-15 or so minutes a night for DMC and no mins to about 5 or so for Hassan to start off - go from there on both the big mens ongoing development.
 
SacKings7

SacKings7

Starter
#8
#8
Whiteside didn't really impress me too much. I really like the blocked shots, but I think he has a long way to go yet to sticking around in the NBA. Cousins OTOH, I was extremely impressed with. His skill level is so high for a big man his age. But like the OP said, he seemed to take himself out of the game when things weren't going his way. But that doesn't really concern me. Westphal seemed to acknowledge that in his interviews, and I get the feeling that if Cousins gets like that with Westphal coaching, then he'll be on the bench. If he wants to be successful, then he won't be long smartening up
 
PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#9
#9
Rookie said:
repeated childish antics?

Please list some.

I haven't heard much of his childish acts during the SL.
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I'm saying what every one else is saying here. OP said, "played like a child." Throwing his arms up and all over the place in frustration. Throwing his head back and rolling his eyes when he doesn't get his way every time. I watched 5 of the SL games and DMC did that childish stuff repeatedly. I didnt see any other rookies or players doing it. It shows weakness to an opponent in my opinion and DMC needs to learn that's a deadly sin in the mans league NBA. I love his aggressiveness and amazing skill level but I don't like all the other distracting juvenile stuff. He's only 19 years of age, so he gets a little break - but at 19 last year Tyreke was WAY more poised.
 
Jechtsphere

Jechtsphere

Starter
#10
#10
I was impressed by both and I agree with OP just when things didn't go his way it seemed like he'd get discouraged and frusterated and he let that effect his game too much, first 3 games were impressive but the last three I can't put my finger on it.

I still see Hassan as project but I think he'll be a nice player for us.

But hey maybe we should of picked Hassan 5th and Cousins 33rd :rolleyes:

He's only 19 years of age, so he gets a little break - but at 19 last year Tyreke was WAY more poised.
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Not everyone can be a Tyreke Evans, people are different.
 
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M

mac

All-Star
#11
#11
Rookie said:
repeated childish antics?

Please list some.

I haven't heard much of his childish acts during the SL.
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The way I saw it it wasn't really childish acts like something stupid or anything. Firstly, you have to admit that the refs were awful. Totally horrible and I think DMC got fouled a hell lot but got no call. And in the game where he fouled out half the fouls were total bull****. What Cousins did wrong was kind of getting frustrated at the way the calls were going, at the way the game was going with the guards throwing horrible passes and just playing terribly. Cousins himself wasn't that great either, but he just made it worse by being frustrated and just seeming uninterested in the game after a certain point. He'll have to get used to things not going well at times and learn to relax and just play within his game, which I think he will especially once he plays with a backcourt that is actually capable of doing something. One thing is for sure, the coaching staff has to discourage him from trying to show off his skills outside, dribbling, shooting and what not. It's great that he has those skills and can use them when necessary, but I think it will be more beneficial to the team if he would just be a post scorer and then occasionally make use of his outside skills.

That said, Whiteside impressed me a lot as well, and for me neither of the rookies impressed me more than the other. What impressed me was how incapable the backcourt was. I swear I can at least inbound the ball better than those scrubs. Any idiot could. I have no idea why we signed Donald Sloan, nor do I see what was so good about Landesberg. The random white guys were totally useless too. Anyway back to Whiteside - I was most impressed with his weakside shot blocking, but he has to learn when to just contest a shot, when to help, when not to help, stuff like that. Many times because he tried to block the shot we ended up giving up an offensive rebound. But he was very promising on both ends, and if he can consistently hit that outside shot it would make things a lot easier for Cousins and Tyreke.

As with all rookies, both should work a lot on their conditioning. For Whiteside more on strength, and for Cousins becoming more mobile.
 
Dunkster

Dunkster

G-League
#12
#12
Vlade4GM said:
Whiteside didn't show me much in terms of skills that I didn't already know about him, but he did show a good attitude on the court and good activity. His bb IQ is lacking but he shows a solid jump shot (showed the wability to hit the bank shot), good hands, and a very good touch around the basket. He showed me that even though he is very raw and probably won't get many minutes, he is going to be aggressive, play hard and work to get better.

Cousins on the other hand played like a child. There's no doubt he showed tremendous skill level for a center, but the between the ears stuff disappointed me. It's not all his fault because the guard play on that team really sucked and everyone was looking for their own shot, so on some instances it's hard to blame him for not being aggressive on the block. The problem though is that when things didn't go his way, he started throwing his head back and swinging his arms, and basically getting lazy and sluggish. His motor was off and on and I don't really buy the fatigue excuse entirely, I'm sure fatigue and conditioning was an issue but it seemed as though he can turn it on when he wanted to. I don't like how easily discouraged and frustrated he gets (and personally, I don't care what his reasons are, there are no excuses), he has a lot of maturing left to do.

It seemed as though he had a lot of problems when facing stronger and tougher opponents, even though most of them are borderline NBA players. If he couldn't back his man down he'd take an off balanced jumper, or stay out on the perimeter to shoot a 20 footer, make a risky pass, or make an awkward dribble drive to the basket. He can face up well for a 280 lbs center, but he's not a face up player, especially 20 feet out. He really needs to work on staying under control and playing smart. If he gets this frustrated and discouraged by these summer league guys, then he is in for a rude awakening in the NBA. The coaches are going to need to kick his butt like Calipari did if they don't want him to fall into some really bad habits. Before the SPL I wanted him to start, but based on what I saw I don't think he's ready for starting minutes. Keep the leash short and make him earn his minutes by being an aggressive post player and showing a good demeanor on the court.

I still think he can and will be a very good player, but I don't think it will be as soon as I originally thought. We'll see how he looks in preseason though.
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Cool story bro.
 
E

eflat

Bench
#13
#13
I think this first year the emotional part of the game is going to be challenging for him. He did seem to sulk at times, and I remember a commentator saying he glared at the officials on the way into a break (2nd or 3rd game?). Will have to learn to maintain some sense of centeredness when getting popped in the mouth and getting called for the foul repeatedly on some nights. He'll need good mentoring/coaching on this.
 
DocHolliday

DocHolliday

Starter
#14
#14
And with all that being said.....He was awared Rookie of the month which basically means, the rookie of Summer League; above points and assist leader John Wall. So, someone is noticing some "good things".

Webber cried a lot, so did Vlade....non issue here. He's 19.
 
Rookie

Rookie

Starter
#16
#16
Well I know Tim Duncan is still crying here and there. If he complains like Wallace than I can see the childish in that but if it's justified than I wouldn't call it childish.

As for the not caring part, I hope that it isn't true. We can't have that with this team, you got to try and come back even if you're down by 30ish.
 
PurpleHaze

PurpleHaze

All-Star
#17
#17
Heuge said:
Great, another player to have posters have a personal vendetta against.
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I don't think any of these posts show a personal vendetta against Cousins. Just pointing out things he needs to work on while at same time acknowledging his amazing basketball big man skill and potential at the next level.
 
T

Th3RyanKing702

Prospect
#18
#18
WTF All the players were gettin mad over foul calls remember they had WNBA refs in the game and they dont really use the same rules as NBA and I could tell they werent picking up on it.But If people are going to say cousins was childish than you have to say Casspi,Greene,Downey, and half of the SL are childish
 
kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#19
#19
Gee, a 19-year-old acts a little immature at times? There's a real shocker! Next time I run into a mature 19-year-old guy, I'll let you know. (A word to the wise, don't hold your breathe.) Evans, on the other hand, is unnaturally mature for his age. (Except when he's driving a car. ;))

Yes Cousins was frustrated and needs to learn not to show it and have much better body language out there. As Westphal said, he's trying to find his way offensively and Elie said both Whiteside and Cousins were getting lost on defense, because the defensive schemes are very hard to learn. As far as I was concerned, poor guard play didn't help the situation for our bigs.
 
F

fnordius

All-Star
#20
#20
I didn't expect either one to start right off, so I guess I'm not so disappointed.

In a way, I think that was perfect handling by Elie, too. By all accounts, Dalembert wants to start and play big minutes. Cousins has never (as far as I know) had a chance to see his own limits that clearly. Now, as he wears his Hello Kitty backpack, he can be thinking about how he doesn't already know everything about playing in the NBA. He also seemed to have had a chance at trying to ad lib his way through a game or two, which didn't work out so well -- maybe this will be good for getting him to accept the leadership of the coaching staff.

My expectations were lower than yours, but I'm content with how SL played out. I hope that the players learned as much from it as I did.
 
Arco Thunder

Arco Thunder

Bench
#21
#21
Th3RyanKing702 said:
WTF All the players were gettin mad over foul calls remember they had WNBA refs in the game and they dont really use the same rules as NBA and I could tell they werent picking up on it.But If people are going to say cousins was childish than you have to say Casspi,Greene,Downey, and half of the SL are childish
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This!
 
Arco Thunder

Arco Thunder

Bench
#22
#22
DocHolliday said:
And with all that being said.....He was awared Rookie of the month which basically means, the rookie of Summer League; above points and assist leader John Wall. So, someone is noticing some "good things".

Webber cried a lot, so did Vlade....non issue here. He's 19.
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Another post in which I totally agree!
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#24
#24
I was favorably impressed by Whiteside. I hadn't seen him in college and was expecting someone even more raw offensively. He showed me some offense that is very encouraging -an outside bank shot, and some nice inside moves. He obviously has to get stronger, but there is a lot to work with there. I thought he played with a good demeanor. He worked hard, and he just kept at it. That doesn't mean that he continually worked hard like he needs to in the NBA. He had his lapses. But overall, he showed me that he can be an excellent player down the line.

Cousins was more like I expected. He has talent. He's immature for a 19 year old. He's out of shape by NBA standards. He's emotional/passionate.

The one thing I really didn't expect, though, was all the outside shots and fade-aways. Also, he showed me some nice passing that I didn't see from him in college.

Cousins' demeanor right now is really going to hurt him in his rookie year. He's going to face a lot of challenges and a lot of nights where things don't go very well for him, which is typical for a rookie. But if you have a sulky demeanor, it makes the down nights even more down, like black-hole down. Until he developes mental toughness (see Tyreke), it is really going to hurt him. At this point, I would expect just the opposite of Tyreke's incredible stability from Cousins in his rookie year. Major highs. And major, major lows. This is just a process he's going to have to work through, like a bad habit that needs to be broken. Like Whiteside, Cousins is a project. Just a different kind.

Speaking of bad habits, by allowing Cousins to shoot outside jumpers and fade-away jump shots, the coaches are not just not doing something beneficial, they are actually encouraging bad habits. This is terribly detrimental and should be immediately stopped by Westphal once practice begins. The longer bad habits are allowed, the harder they are to break.
 
NME

NME

Starter
#27
#27
I can't imagine by what objective standard Whiteside was more impressive than Cousins, unless its purely compared to expectation. About 90 percent of Cousins's issues can be addressed by a pro strength and conditioning program.
 
MizzouKing

MizzouKing

Starter
#28
#28
fnordius said:
In a way, I think that was perfect handling by Elie, too. By all accounts, Dalembert wants to start and play big minutes. Cousins has never (as far as I know) had a chance to see his own limits that clearly. Now, as he wears his Hello Kitty backpack, he can be thinking about how he doesn't already know everything about playing in the NBA. He also seemed to have had a chance at trying to ad lib his way through a game or two, which didn't work out so well -- maybe this will be good for getting him to accept the leadership of the coaching staff.
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I think fnordius makes a very important point here. When you've been given everything you want, then get to see what worked and how much didn't, it's a lot harder to sit on the bench griping about "the way things ought to be." Combined with the very public support and valuable guidance DeMarcus received from the coaching staff throughout, I suspect they'll have a future star with a positive and receptive attitude, even when they have him holding the bench down in the early going.

[Insert obligatory Zen platitude here]

Mizzou King
 
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#29
#29
There was a reason Calipari kept Cousins down in the post(aside from being a post player) He is a 270 pound point guard. Charges, dimes, and failed attempts at zipping thru traffic on the way to the hoop (from 30 feet out) Westphal will keep him where he belongs which will eliminate some of his frustrating play. He is a grumpy frumpy teenager but I suspect his bad habits will be kept in check with conditioning, rest and limited minutes. I think he will also develop confidence in new post moves towards the paint and basket. Right now he only seems to feel comfortable with that little baseline move. When they take that away he turns around and takes a 12 footer (which he can hit) or he throws some slop up with his right hand. Coach West will get it right. I'm changing his name to Coach West.
 
=LarryLegend=

=LarryLegend=

Starter
#30
#30
I always thought Cousins wouldn't start until 20-30 games into the season to begin with. I also think our front office likes Dalembert. in reference to Cousins having a pouty face more the the other players on our team, the cameras showed him like 90% of the game. we saw his reactions more then any other player in every game played.
 
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