Which potential top 6 pick fits us best?

Which top 6 prospect fits us best?

  • Total voters
    74
  • Poll closed .
206Fan said:
Arizona isn't built through Ayton, but they do heavily feature Ayton. They have another low-post scorer in Ristic right next to him which kills floor spacing, but Ayton finds a way to manage anyways. Ayton has the better size and frame. He has quicker feet than Cousins. Ayton's scoring ability is better than UK/rookie Cousins. Cousins had better post footwork, but Ayton has a much better touch around the rim. Cousins' efficiency has always left a lot to be desired before he added his 3pt shot. Shot 43% as a rookie which is terrible for a low-post C. Ayton is the slightly better shooter. Cousins didn't add a mid-range game until his 3rd year in the NBA, while we're seeing Ayton take at least 2 a game now. Cousins was slightly a better rebounder. He was also a better passer. Ayton is a better rim protector. He also has quicker feet on defense. He's a much better defensive prospect than Cousins all-around. There's nowhere that Cousins beats him on that end.

I think Ayton is a much better prospect than Cousins at Kentucky. Ayton is more skilled and has a better physical profile.
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We will disagree on this. Cousins had a mid range game much earlier. I think Ayton will be a beast offensively but not sure he will be as big a beast or as complete a player as Cousins on that end. Can't really take players off the dribble, not as great passer etc but I can certainly see the offensive potential there.

Defensively, Ayton is a better shot blocker but Cousins is a good post defender who has a knack for taking charges. Cousins also had that dawg in him which I don't think Ayton does. Having said all that, he is my pick come June
 
kingsfan1984 said:
How important is it for a big to have ability to "put it on the floor" and dribble by a defender?
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I would go as far as to say it is "super important". Considering some best bigs in the league right now can do it. And because C-Webb told me so on NBA2K18 when he was the commentator. C-Webb wouldn't lie about such things...;)

He said (paraphrasing), "all you kids with dreams of making it in the NBA, don't listen to your coach if he says you need to focus on 'traditional big man stuff'... today's NBA has bigs distributing, dribbling a lot, etc etc!"
 
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kingsfan1984 said:
How important is it for a big to have ability to "put it on the floor" and dribble by a defender?
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You can still be a dominant player without it. However, we were comparing the skillsets of Ayton and Cousins. I believe that Cousins in a lot more complete player offensively. He didn't have the polished low post game or the 3 pt shot coming out of college but he had a lot more varies skillset offensively than Ayton does. He just played a certain role within the Kentucky system that did not showcase those skills.

From his first summer league game where he hit a mid range game winner against the Timberwolves, it was obvious that Cousins is a highly skilled big man who could dribble, pass, shoot from the mid range, rebound and be a load on the low block.

I think Ayton has the offense tailored around him in Arizona. He is very good on the low block, shows flashes of a developing jumpshot all the way out to a college 3. He is a very good reboudner and a better shot blocker than Cousins (which doesn't translate to a better defender but DMC was a bad defender early) but not as good a passer or dribbler.

Bottom line, the more complete the player the better but big guy taking players off the dribble is not a make or break deal for a very successful career. You can be a perennial all-star big man without being able to take players off the dribble.
 
kingsfan1984 said:
How important is it for a big to have ability to "put it on the floor" and dribble by a defender?
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I would say it's one of the things that separates the great centers from the typical rotational centers. Why is Anthony Davis so good? Why is Cousins so good? Why is DeAndre Jordan basically a one trick pony? He's really good at that one trick, and it makes him valuable, but he'll never be in the running for MVP. But I must emphasize, it's just one of the things that separates them. Being good at putting the ball on the floor is somewhat meaningless if it doesn't result in a basket for the player, or a teammate.
 
ParniValjak said:
You can still be a dominant player without it. However, we were comparing the skillsets of Ayton and Cousins. I believe that Cousins in a lot more complete player offensively. He didn't have the polished low post game or the 3 pt shot coming out of college but he had a lot more varies skillset offensively than Ayton does. He just played a certain role within the Kentucky system that did not showcase those skills.

From his first summer league game where he hit a mid range game winner against the Timberwolves, it was obvious that Cousins is a highly skilled big man who could dribble, pass, shoot from the mid range, rebound and be a load on the low block.

I think Ayton has the offense tailored around him in Arizona. He is very good on the low block, shows flashes of a developing jumpshot all the way out to a college 3. He is a very good reboudner and a better shot blocker than Cousins (which doesn't translate to a better defender but DMC was a bad defender early) but not as good a passer or dribbler.

Bottom line, the more complete the player the better but big guy taking players off the dribble is not a make or break deal for a very successful career. You can be a perennial all-star big man without being able to take players off the dribble.
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As huge Cousins fan, and one that saw every game he played at Kentucky, I'm going to disagree with you a bit. First, coming out of college, no one even knew that Cousins had a mid-range shot, or that he was capable of putting the ball on the floor. Something you alluded to. Calipari had his feet nailed to the floor 5 feet from the basket, and if he ever strayed further than that, his butt was on the bench getting chewed on. So, while I've seen Ayton put the ball on the floor, he hasn't done it enough to make any judgements on. However he does have a nice mid-range shot. I saw him hit it three times in the last game.

Ayton has a step back fall away shot, that reminds me of Anthony Davis. His post game is light years ahead of where Cousins was. Cuz simply played bully ball when he arrived and put up huge offensive rebound numbers off his own missed shots. He was over weight and didn't have the mobility he has now. I remember seeing him in his first game in summer league, and he killed it. I was very impressed at his first venture at something close to NBA basketball. However, in the rest of his summer league games, he was downright horrible. Don't confuse the Cousins of today with Cousins the rookie. Cousins today would destroy the rookie Cousins.

Point is, players get better. Willie's ball handling is far better than it was when he was a rookie. I can't guarantee anyone that Ayton will become a good ballhandler, but he's a very fluid and coordinated athlete, so if he puts in the work, he should get better. I certainly wouldn't pass on him based on his ballhandling. And I'm not suggesting that you would. I just think that sometimes people make more out of something than is merited. There is no perfect player coming out of college. I'm more interested in what they can do, than what they can't do. But, the more they can do, the more interested I become.
 
bajaden said:
As huge Cousins fan, and one that saw every game he played at Kentucky, I'm going to disagree with you a bit. First, coming out of college, no one even knew that Cousins had a mid-range shot, or that he was capable of putting the ball on the floor. Something you alluded to. Calipari had his feet nailed to the floor 5 feet from the basket, and if he ever strayed further than that, his butt was on the bench getting chewed on. So, while I've seen Ayton put the ball on the floor, he hasn't done it enough to make any judgements on. However he does have a nice mid-range shot. I saw him hit it three times in the last game.

Ayton has a step back fall away shot, that reminds me of Anthony Davis. His post game is light years ahead of where Cousins was. Cuz simply played bully ball when he arrived and put up huge offensive rebound numbers off his own missed shots. He was over weight and didn't have the mobility he has now. I remember seeing him in his first game in summer league, and he killed it. I was very impressed at his first venture at something close to NBA basketball. However, in the rest of his summer league games, he was downright horrible. Don't confuse the Cousins of today with Cousins the rookie. Cousins today would destroy the rookie Cousins.

Point is, players get better. Willie's ball handling is far better than it was when he was a rookie. I can't guarantee anyone that Ayton will become a good ballhandler, but he's a very fluid and coordinated athlete, so if he puts in the work, he should get better. I certainly wouldn't pass on him based on his ballhandling. And I'm not suggesting that you would. I just think that sometimes people make more out of something than is merited. There is no perfect player coming out of college. I'm more interested in what they can do, than what they can't do. But, the more they can do, the more interested I become.
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Look I agree with everything you said. I am on record as saying that Ayton is my #1 choice because I believe that he can be a franchise level player. Of course he will improve and be a better player in 3-4 years time that he is now (provided he puts in the hard work).

I do think Cousins' skill level was under-rated when he came into the league. In his rookie season everyone was saying how good a passer he was (not necessarily a decision maker) and he showed none of that at Kentucky. The point I am trying to make is that at Kentucky Cuz had a certain role and if he tried anything outside of that role, as you pointed out coach Cal would plant him on the bench. IMHO, Ayton has much more freedom to showcase his whole skill set at Arizona than Cousins had at Kentucky but that doesn't mean that he is more skilled than Cousins was. I think Geoff Petrie is on the record saying that in the pre-draft work out for us he showed us a LOT more than what he was able to show at Kentucky. Low post game was all power but he cold dribble, shoot and pass well which is something he was not able to fully demonstrate at Kentucky due to his role.

Bottom line is, if it was up to me, Ayton would be my #1 choice for this team because he addresses more pressing needs for this team than any other draftee. He has genuine franchise level talent IF he continues to work on his game and develop it.
 
ParniValjak said:
Look I agree with everything you said. I am on record as saying that Ayton is my #1 choice because I believe that he can be a franchise level player. Of course he will improve and be a better player in 3-4 years time that he is now (provided he puts in the hard work).

I do think Cousins' skill level was under-rated when he came into the league. In his rookie season everyone was saying how good a passer he was (not necessarily a decision maker) and he showed none of that at Kentucky. The point I am trying to make is that at Kentucky Cuz had a certain role and if he tried anything outside of that role, as you pointed out coach Cal would plant him on the bench. IMHO, Ayton has much more freedom to showcase his whole skill set at Arizona than Cousins had at Kentucky but that doesn't mean that he is more skilled than Cousins was. I think Geoff Petrie is on the record saying that in the pre-draft work out for us he showed us a LOT more than what he was able to show at Kentucky. Low post game was all power but he cold dribble, shoot and pass well which is something he was not able to fully demonstrate at Kentucky due to his role.

Bottom line is, if it was up to me, Ayton would be my #1 choice for this team because he addresses more pressing needs for this team than any other draftee. He has genuine franchise level talent IF he continues to work on his game and develop it.
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I don't dispute anything you said. If I have the number one pick, I now have Ayton at the top of my list. I've also moved Mikal Bridges to number five on my list. I doubt anyone else has him that high, but I just love this kid, and he also would be a great fit for the Kings, who need a SF. Of course not at number one, but if for some reason the Kings end up choosing 5 or below, he would be my choice. I say that without knowing who might slide of course.
 
bajaden said:
I don't dispute anything you said. If I have the number one pick, I now have Ayton at the top of my list. I've also moved Mikal Bridges to number five on my list. I doubt anyone else has him that high, but I just love this kid, and he also would be a great fit for the Kings, who need a SF. Of course not at number one, but if for some reason the Kings end up choosing 5 or below, he would be my choice. I say that without knowing who might slide of course.
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Is Bagley the odd man out, or number 6, in your opinion?
 
kingsfan1984 said:
Is Bagley the odd man out, or number 6, in your opinion?
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At the moment I have Bagley at six. Bagley is a tough call for me. I really like him, but he has some holes in his game, or at least appears to. I hate to put people in a box. Every time I do, I end up getting surprised. A lot of what Bagley does relies on his athleticism. He's a good low post scorer, but it's mostly because he can out quick just about everyone. So the question is, will he be able to do that in the NBA. He's shown that he has a three point shot, but we have no way of knowing how consistent it is. He's shooting a decent 35% from the three, but he takes less than two a game.

However, to be fair, everyone assumes that Carter is a good three point shooter because he's shooting just under 50% from the three. But he takes fewer three's than Bagley. When it's all said and done, Carter could end up being a better player than Bagley. I think both will be good NBA players. The reason I like Mikal is because he's able to impact the game at both ends of the court. And he's really good at both ends of the court. It's that time of the year where I've watched so many games that I start over thinking everything.
 
bajaden said:
At the moment I have Bagley at six. Bagley is a tough call for me. I really like him, but he has some holes in his game, or at least appears to. I hate to put people in a box. Every time I do, I end up getting surprised. A lot of what Bagley does relies on his athleticism. He's a good low post scorer, but it's mostly because he can out quick just about everyone. So the question is, will he be able to do that in the NBA. He's shown that he has a three point shot, but we have no way of knowing how consistent it is. He's shooting a decent 35% from the three, but he takes less than two a game.

However, to be fair, everyone assumes that Carter is a good three point shooter because he's shooting just under 50% from the three. But he takes fewer three's than Bagley. When it's all said and done, Carter could end up being a better player than Bagley. I think both will be good NBA players. The reason I like Mikal is because he's able to impact the game at both ends of the court. And he's really good at both ends of the court. It's that time of the year where I've watched so many games that I start over thinking everything.
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What is your top 10 at the moment before the March Madnesses begins?

1. Ayton
2. ???
 
I'd rather tier than go straight with numbers. Right now I'm thinking something like:

Tier ?? (They would seem to be top-ten, but I can't evaluate them)
Doncic
Porter

Tier 1
Ayton
Bagley
Jackson

Tier 2
Bamba
Bridges (Miles)

Tier 3
Bridges (Mikal)
Sexton
Young

Might be Tier 3
Carter
Knox
 
Tier 1.
1. Ayton
2. Doncic

Tier 2.
3. Jackson Jr.
4. Porter

Tier 3.
5. Mikal Bridges
6. Bagley
7. Young

Tier 4.
8. Bamba
9. Carter
10. Miles Bridges

I'd give you my whole top 30, but I have some major changes to it that I'm still trying to work out position wise. There are some players that I've moved up quite a bit, and vice versa.
 
Folsomkingsfan said:
I really hope Vlade's big board doesn't look like this. Doncic should absolutely be higher than Bagley and Porter.
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Prior to this college season Porter was tipped to be a first overall pick contender. His injury hurt his stock but there's still a lot of potential in him. He could become a number one option if he can stay healthy and make the transition.

Bagley is another very talented player. Is there a question mark on his fit next to Willie? Sure, but Bagley has superior upside to Willie so I'd move on from him and invest in Bagley. The kid can score and has a developing three point shot. He's got excellent size and athleticism.

Now don't get me wrong I do like Doncic, but there's a very good reason I rank him below the above two. Porter projects to be a SF that could play some PF in certain line ups, and Bagley projects to be a PF that could play some C in certain line ups. What position will Doncic play? Some say PG, some say SG, and others SF. That's nice positional flexibility but there's a risk with that if he doesn't find his best position. There's no question that he's talented and got a ton of upside, but so do Porter and Bagley. It's not like I put Collin Seaton above him, I put two guys in the same bracket above him. For me, in this year's draft there's possibly six or seven players that are difficult to separate and could be ranked differently depending on what you look for in players.

If we end up with any of that trio we should be very happy.
 
Mine is a bit different.

1. Doncic
2. Jackson Jr
3. Porter Jr
4. Carter
5. Ayton
6. Bagley
7. Young
8. Mikal Bridges
9. Miles Bridges
10. Knox
 
Mike said:
Prior to this college season Porter was tipped to be a first overall pick contender. His injury hurt his stock but there's still a lot of potential in him. He could become a number one option if he can stay healthy and make the transition.

Bagley is another very talented player. Is there a question mark on his fit next to Willie? Sure, but Bagley has superior upside to Willie so I'd move on from him and invest in Bagley. The kid can score and has a developing three point shot. He's got excellent size and athleticism.

Now don't get me wrong I do like Doncic, but there's a very good reason I rank him below the above two. Porter projects to be a SF that could play some PF in certain line ups, and Bagley projects to be a PF that could play some C in certain line ups. What position will Doncic play? Some say PG, some say SG, and others SF. That's nice positional flexibility but there's a risk with that if he doesn't find his best position. There's no question that he's talented and got a ton of upside, but so do Porter and Bagley. It's not like I put Collin Seaton above him, I put two guys in the same bracket above him. For me, in this year's draft there's possibly six or seven players that are difficult to separate and could be ranked differently depending on what you look for in players.

If we end up with any of that trio we should be very happy.
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Position is my biggest concern with Donic as well. I have only seen clips of him and he looks dam good to the point I want him as a King, still at present I have to take Ayton over him. I have watched more of Ayton and to me there is no question he can be a dominate center, even if that has become a bit of a dinosaur position. I would guess Donic is best suited at the 2 and we are loaded there , which I know is a bad reason to pass on the BPA. It is a tough call and we have not even seen Porter Jr play yet.
 
bajaden said:
Tier 1.
1. Ayton
2. Doncic

Tier 2.
3. Jackson Jr.
4. Porter

Tier 3.
5. Mikal Bridges
6. Bagley
7. Young

Tier 4.
8. Bamba
9. Carter
10. Miles Bridges

I'd give you my whole top 30, but I have some major changes to it that I'm still trying to work out position wise. There are some players that I've moved up quite a bit, and vice versa.
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Our top 2 is identical! :D

I really like Jackson Jr but I do have a couple of queries with him. One is that he is not a great rebounder for his size and position and the other one that worries me is his jump shot, specifically his release point!

Unless he changes it, I cannot see how he can be any more than a spot up jump shooter (in terms of shooting the jumper only). I can't see him pulling up off the dribble or shooting a AD like fade away jumpers because his release point is in front of his face practically. If someone is guarding him in the NBA, I think he might have real difficulty getting that shot off with a defender in his face. He is still young and can improve the little "glitch" that I see but it is a bit of a concern at this point IMHO.

Defensively, his instinct is off the chart. An excellent rim protector.

Porter is such an unknown due to injury.
 
206Fan said:
Arizona isn't built through Ayton, but they do heavily feature Ayton. They have another low-post scorer in Ristic right next to him which kills floor spacing, but Ayton finds a way to manage anyways. Ayton has the better size and frame. He has quicker feet than Cousins. Ayton's scoring ability is better than UK/rookie Cousins. Cousins had better post footwork, but Ayton has a much better touch around the rim. Cousins' efficiency has always left a lot to be desired before he added his 3pt shot. Shot 43% as a rookie which is terrible for a low-post C. Ayton is the slightly better shooter. Cousins didn't add a mid-range game until his 3rd year in the NBA, while we're seeing Ayton take at least 2 a game now. Cousins was slightly a better rebounder. He was also a better passer. Ayton is a better rim protector. He also has quicker feet on defense. He's a much better defensive prospect than Cousins all-around. There's nowhere that Cousins beats him on that end.

I think Ayton is a much better prospect than Cousins at Kentucky. Ayton is more skilled and has a better physical profile.
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The thing is (and there's absolutely no way to account for this as a quantifiable statistic) I'd argue that Boogie had that magical it, the killer instinct you see in the true superstars of the league while Ayton, not quite to his detriment, hasn't quite shown that in his time with Arizona.
 
The more I watch the Kings lose night in and night out. I could be wrong, but it sure seems like we need rebounding in the worst way. I dont think we can put it all on Giles to solve this problem. I know we have a hole at small forward, but if we can't rebound the ball we will never win. If it was up to me it would be between Ayton, Bagley, and Bamba. I really like Jackson, but his rebounding stats are not the best.
 
For the first time in over a decade, my gut tells me that no matter who we draft they will be placed in the right environment to bring out the best in them. The chemistry and maturity of the young guys in our team makes working together in the gym a pleasure instead of, well work. Its very simular to the dynamic curry and Thompson had where both players are better because of their personal dynamic on/off court, IMHO. Chemisty is big in a youth development and out of all the bad teams we rank at the top here.
 
The_Jamal said:
You'd either be fired in two years, or have job security for life with this big board.
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I know it's a bit different but I try not to just take other mocks and switch the players around. I put more emphasis on their impact on the modern NBA game and which players seem like they can or will have the ability to do more than just one or two things. The reason why I have Carter so high is because I can see him being a 14pt, 9reb, 4ast, 1.8blk type player that also spreads the floor with his shooting. I'll take him over a guy who scores a few more points a game but gives them back on the defensive end and can't find his teammates for open looks.

I have Ayton lower because I think he's a poor man's Embiid. I think he will wind up being a lot like Embiid except he will be a little worse in every aspect of the game.
 
ESP47 said:
I know it's a bit different but I try not to just take other mocks and switch the players around. I put more emphasis on their impact on the modern NBA game and which players seem like they can or will have the ability to do more than just one or two things. The reason why I have Carter so high is because I can see him being a 14pt, 9reb, 4ast, 1.8blk type player that also spreads the floor with his shooting. I'll take him over a guy who scores a few more points a game but gives them back on the defensive end and can't find his teammates for open looks.

I have Ayton lower because I think he's a poor man's Embiid. I think he will wind up being a lot like Embiid except he will be a little worse in every aspect of the game.
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Ya I’m I like Carter for us at 6 over a guy like Bamba easily. I don’t trust Ayton to take him over Doncic can he anchor a defense at center if he can’t his impact won’t be as great as a guy like Doncic on 18-6-5 numbers.
 
Question

In todays NBA, is it harder to draft a high level nba wing, gaurd, or big man outside of the top of a draft? This could impact if we go with Porter or Doncic versus Ayton/Jackson/Bagley.

Off top of head, guys like Gobert, myles turner, adams, clint capela, Jokic and a number of others i foget name of are all solid big men but taken later in draft. I know the all star guys are moatly high draft picks, but my point is how big of a drop off is it to find a solid rebounding defensive big later in draft (or through free agency) in a nother year? Would the same consideration show that the odds of getting a solid wing later in draft decreasr significantly where we might want the wing NOW in draft as it will be much harder to fill down the road?
 
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