Which Big Name Free Agent to Target?

[ockingsfan]

I'd be down with bringing in Ed Davis or Thomas Robinson (or both). Davis not getting more time last season and basically platooning with Boozer showed how bad of a coach Scott is. Or how bad the Lakers wanted to tank, because was one of the only guys on that team who was really productive.

He's still just 25 years old and has been productive throughout his career on both ends of the floor. Can very easily see him as a breakout candidate with starter minutes.

I agree.

I think Ed Davis could be a very solid starting power forward. I think he could be a Darren collision type breakout player for the kings.

If the kings don't draft WCS at #6 and instead drafts mudiay, I would be all for signing ed Davis as a FA. I think a 4 year $16-20 million contract would be fair.

I can see ed Davis avg 10pt/10reb/1.5blks a game as a starter.

 

[KingMilz]

I agree.

I think Ed Davis could be a very solid starting power forward. I think he could be a Darren collision type breakout player for the kings.

If the kings don't draft WCS at #6 and instead drafts mudiay, I would be all for signing ed Davis as a FA. I think a 4 year $16-20 million contract would be fair.

I can see ed Davis avg 10pt/10reb/1.5blks a game as a starter.

I agree Ed Davis would be nice if we don't net WCS I prefer him to Amir Johnson in particular when he's going to cost half as much.

 

[Gilles]

Davis is the same caliber shooter as Kosta Koufos, non-existent, which makes him a center. Would rather go after Koufos then.

 

[rainmaker]

I've already been on the record of saying that I would be willing to sign Danny Green for $13 mil/year. When the cap jumps next year to 89 mil, it will be the same as a 9.8 mil/year deal under the current cap. When the cap jumps to 108 mil the following season, it will be the same as a 8.1 mil/year deal under the current cap.

Good Lord, man, if you're willing to splash 13M on a player you can do better than Danny Green.

 

[randymoss1881]

Good Lord, man, if you're willing to splash 13M on a player you can do better than Danny Green.

No we can't and Green starting with Gay/DMC/Collison improves us greatly.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Davis is the same caliber shooter as Kosta Koufos, non-existent, which makes him a center. Would rather go after Koufos then.

Never payed that much attention to Davis on the Lakers, but isn't he somewhat slender and agile? Koufos would be a decent pickup, but I think he is not a guy, who can contain guards in the pick&roll. With Koufos, JT and DMC we would have a very physical, tall frontcourt, but we would have problems defending pick&rolls. Maybe Davis has the upper hand in that regard over Koufos or JT?
Floor spacing and offense is an issue no matter, who we start at PF, but if we aquire WCS it might be the same.
After all we might be forced to a smaller lineup with Gay at the PF for some stretches, when our offense isn't clicking, with a defensive minded, low usage roleplayer at the starting PF, which is the player type most of you prefer for the Kings.
At least we have the option to go small, more offense with Gay and Casspi (if we bring him back).

 

[Gilles]

Davis is a thin center, same as Henson.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Similar to Henson doesn't sound too bad, when WCS doesn't fall to 6. Watched some older video on Davis's defense. Looked decent guarding the perimeter and very good as a help side defender. But I'm not a fan of those highlight videos and I didn't follow Davis since he left Memphis.

 

[twslam07]

Good Lord, man, if you're willing to splash 13M on a player you can do better than Danny Green.

I've already given my justifications why $13 mil for Green makes sense. Obviously, we try to bring him in cheaper, but I'm willing to go to $13 mil.

Ariza is an elite 3 and D player as well and he makes $8.6 mil this year. That would be right on par with a $13 mil/year deal in the new CBA. People really need to start taking it into consideration.

I would also like to hear who you have in mind for $13 mil/year? The only way that works is if you offer someone a one year deal with that player hoping for the big payday the following year. Matthews could fall into this category, but that's a risk for us. We need to bank on players who we know will improve our team next year. Matthews could come back full strength or he could come back half the player he was. Too many unknowns for my liking.

Having an elite 3 and D SG on a deal that is the same as 8.1 mil/year under the current cap is hardly anything to scoff at. Not to mention that this elite 3 and D talent would be a perfect fit with our current core, and it's another talent add. We still have McLemore and Stauskas as assets to improve the team elsewhere.

 

[twslam07]

Gilles & Capt - I'm going to need you guys to keep me honest on my numbers, but this is how signing Danny Green to $13 mil/year would work.

First, the salary. This is who we have under contract next year if we renounce all FAs.

$14,728,844 - Cousins
$12,403,101 - Gay
$6,750,000 - Landry
$6,431,250 - Thompson
$5,013,559 - Collison
$3,156,600 - McLemore
$2,869,440 - Stauskas
$947,276 - McCallum
$845,059 - Moreland
$53,145,129 - Payroll (9 players)

Adding in the cap holds that we have:

$833,333 - Ellington (stretched)
$2,831,900 - 6th pick cap hold (we'd have to wait to sign him to give us a little more cap space because rookies normally sign for 120% of the cap hold)
$56,810,362 - Payroll (10 players)

Adding in the rookie FA cap holds to bring us up to minimum 12 players:

$525,093 - 1st rookie FA cap hold
$525,093 - 2nd rookie FA cap hold
$57,860,548 - Payroll (12 players)

The salary cap is projected to be at $67,100,000 next year. That gives us $9,239,452 in cap space to work with. However, if we stretch Landry, we get more cap space to work with.

$2,700,000 - Landry's new cap hit against up
$525,093 - 3rd rookie FA cap hold (since we released a player, we need to add another rookie minimum cap hold to bring us back to 12 players)
$53,810,548 - Payroll (12 players)

Now we have $12,764,359 in cap space. I suggested signing Green to a $52 mil/year deal over 4 years (about $13 mil/year). Taking into account that we can offer him 4.5% pay increases each year, this is what the structure of a $52 mil deal would look like:

$12,154,670 - Year 1
$12,701,630 - Year 2 (same as a $9.6 mil deal under the current cap)
$13,273,204 - Year 3 (same as a $8.2 mil deal under the current cap)
$13,870,498 - Year 4 (same as a $8.6 mil deal under the current cap)

If we sign Green to this contract, we also get to remove one of our rookie FA cap holds:

$12,154,670 - Green
-$525,093 - removing 3rd rookie cap hold
$65,398,838 - Payroll (12 players)

Now we have $1,134,782 in cap space. That's really not much to offer. That's more than the veteran minimum for a player who has been in the league 5 years or less, but again, it's really not that helpful. We'll have to rely on exceptions and veteran minimums for the rest of our deals.

$2,814,000 - Casspi (2 year room exception)
-$525,093 - removing 1st rookie cap hold
$1,499,187 - Andre Miller (vet minimum)
-$525,093 - removing 2nd rookie cap hold
$845,059 - David Stockton (vet minimum - try CJ Watson at the vet minimum first)
$1,499,187 - Charlie Villanueva (vet minimum - also look at Gooden, Bonner, & R. Evans)
$1,499,187 - Ryan Hollins (vet minimum - also look at J. Anthony & G. Smith)

This would be the team going into the season:

PG - Collison/Miller/McCallum/Stockton
SG - Green/McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay/Casspi
PF - Thompson/Villanueva/Moreland
C - Cousins/Cauley-Stein/Hollins

Then you can either look for a McLemore/Stauskas trade to possibly bring in some more froncourt depth, or you can wait until next offseason when the Kings will have $16,554,434 in cap space with the core below still on contract:

PG - Collison
SG - Green/McLemore/Stauskas
SF - Gay/Casspi
PF - Thompson/Moreland
C - Cousins/Cauley-Stein

Horford, Noah, Nene, R. Anderson, T. Jones, Henson, Ezeli, Mi. Plumlee, & M. Leonard will all be FAs next year that we could try to strengthen our frontcourt depth. We could even waive Thompson for an additional $4,175,000 bringing us to $20,729,434 in cap space. Is that enough to go get a player like Horford? Maybe. Although he's older, a Horford/Cauley-Stein/Cousins frontcourt would be pretty darn strong. Since the option to waive Thompson is before FA, I bet we keep him and not take the risk that we can sign a big time FA. It depends on how Cauley-Stein looks this year, but adding a guy like Ezeli, Plumlee, or Leonard as the backup C could make a big difference.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Gilles & Capt - I'm going to need you guys to keep me honest on my numbers, but this is how signing Danny Green to $13 mil/year would work.

...

Adding in the cap holds that we have:

$833,333 - Ellington (stretched)
$2,265,520 - 6th pick cap hold (80% of $2,831,900 - I believe the cap hold is 80%, so we'd have to wait to sign him to give us a little more cap space)
$56,243,982 - Payroll (10 players)

The draft pick cap hold is 100%, not 80%. So you'd have to save about $570K somewhere in your calculations. But you are right that we would typically wait to sign the rookie - to 120% - until after all of our FA signing and cap-fiddling is done.

 

[twslam07]

The draft pick cap hold is 100%, not 80%. So you'd have to save about $570K somewhere in your calculations. But you are right that we would typically wait to sign the rookie - to 120% - until after all of our FA signing and cap-fiddling is done.

Thanks Capt!

For some reason, I kept thinking the cap hold was 80% but I couldn't find it anywhere online. I'll update the post.

 

[Gilles]

Looks like you're using Hoopshype.com numbers, and those are not correct:
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/sacramento-kings-team-salary seem to get all the same numbers, that shamsports used to have, so
Boogie - $15,851,950
Landry - $6,500,000
Also you missed little Stock, who will get $845,059 non-guaranteed next season, and will replace one of your minimum cap holds.
If non-guarantees are not waived, but all cap holds, Trade and mid-level exceptions are and no QO is offered, then Kings have team salary of $58,922,917 on July,1st.
Waiving all 3 non-guarantees gets you $1,062,115 more, dropping team salary to $57,860,802.
Waiving-and-stretching Landry adds $3,374,907 ($6.5 million - $2.6 million - min cap hold), dropping team salary to $54,485,895, so with cap presumably at $67.1 million, that would give Kings $12,614,105 in cap space.

Kings must use their future picks, but not #6, to improve via trades, but that is only possible after Chicago sort their coaching affairs out, and are ready to move onto personnel changes. If Kings can dump Landry using removing of protection on 2016 pick and $3 million in cash, that would add flexibility.

 

[randymoss1881]

Ed Davis is ass stop talking about him

 

[206Fan]

2015 PF free agents(non AS list):
1. David West PO
2. Thadd Young PO
3. Tristan Thompson RFA
4. Amir Johnson UFA
5. Jordan Hill TO
6. Ed Davis PO
7. Brandon Bass UFA
8. Luis Scola UFA
9. Andrea Bargani UFA
10. Tyler Hansbrough UFA
11. Jonas Jerebko UFA
12. Thomas Robinson UFA
13. Jason Smith UFA
14. Kyle O'Quinn UFA
15. Pero Antic RFA
16. Darrell Arthur UFA
17. Matt Bonner UFA
18. Lavoy Allen UFA
19. Quincy Acy UFA
20. Henry Sims RFA
21. Drew Gooden UFA


Centers(non AS):
1. Roy Hibbert PO
2. Tyson Chandler UFA
3. Robin Lopez UFA
4. Enes Kanter RFA
5. Omer Asik UFA
6. Bradon Wright UFA
7. Kosta Kofus UFA
8. Chris Kaman TO
9. Bismack Biyombo RFA
10. Javalee McGee UFA
11. Aron Baynes RFA
12. Alexis Ajinca UFA
13. Kevin Seraphin RFA
14. Samuel Dalembert UFA
15. Cole Aldrich UFA
16. Jeff Withey RFA
17. Jerome Jordan UFA
18. Perkins..

 

[206Fan]

I think some realistic bigs we can pair up next to Cousins are: Tristan Thompson, Amir Johnson, Tyson Chandler, Robin Lopez, and Brandon Wright.

There are a lot of names there that would be great rotational bigs if we make JT expandable. There's Hill, Young, Davis, Scola, Bargani, O'Quinn, Kanter, Asik, Kofus, Kaman, Bioymbo, McGee, Ajinca, Antic, Jerebko, and Robinson.

I think all of those players are real actual potential players who the Kings could target in FA and they'd have interests in coming over if the price is right. Not bad..

 

[Gilles]

Tristan Thompson is not realistic as he's getting at least $13 million per from Cleveland.
Lakers already picked Hill's option.
Portland haven't waived Kaman (his contract is non-guaranteed, not TO).

Barely any of these guys have all of (defensive-minded with ability to guard perimeter/low usage/some sort of jumpshot) requirements, that Kings need at PF next to Boogie, or just to put them on the floor together with DMC. And almost all of these guys will be too expensive as strictly backup Cs.
Only Amir Johnson, O'Quinn and Jerebko fit all 3, and O'Quinn is unproven, while Jerebko is just not good enough to start (would be great addition to rotation though).

 

[KingMilz]

Javale is a bit of wildcard for me, despite the immense stupidity when he was with the Nuggets I don't think I have ever seen a player that big be able to pull off some of the athletic things the guy did. If he's somewhat healthy willing to play for cheap with that size/length he could probably still impact a game in a short 15min burst. Karl was fairly strict with him in Denver to which is a good thing, but in saying that maybe him and Karl probably prefer not to work together anymore maybe. On the flip side in terms of impact that was McGee's prime basketball under Karl/Miller.

(assuming no WCS)

 

[KingMilz]

Tristan Thompson is not realistic as he's getting at least $13 million per from Cleveland.
Lakers already picked Hill's option.
Portland haven't waived Kaman (his contract is non-guaranteed, not TO).

Barely any of these guys have all of (defensive-minded with ability to guard perimeter/low usage/some sort of jumpshot) requirements, that Kings need at PF next to Boogie, or just to put them on the floor together with DMC. And almost all of these guys will be too expensive as strictly backup Cs.
Only Amir Johnson, O'Quinn and Jerebko fit all 3, and O'Quinn is unproven, while Jerebko is just not good enough to start (would be great addition to rotation though).

I like Jerebko cause he's a ball mover/smart player he would be very nice off the bench.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Good Lord, man, if you're willing to splash 13M on a player you can do better than Danny Green.

if you squint hard enough it becomes a diamond. he sees that the cap will jump so throw the sink at a role player.

 

[bajaden]

Javale is a bit of wildcard for me, despite the immense stupidity when he was with the Nuggets I don't think I have ever seen a player that big be able to pull off some of the athletic things the guy did. If he's somewhat healthy willing to play for cheap with that size/length he could probably still impact a game in a short 15min burst. Karl was fairly strict with him in Denver to which is a good thing, but in saying that maybe him and Karl probably prefer not to work together anymore maybe. On the flip side in terms of impact that was McGee's prime basketball under Karl/Miller.

(assuming no WCS)

One of the reasons that Karl was let go in Denver, was in part his reluctance to play McGee. So why in god's name, would we burden him with the same problem.

 

[bajaden]

Tristan Thompson is not realistic as he's getting at least $13 million per from Cleveland.
Lakers already picked Hill's option.
Portland haven't waived Kaman (his contract is non-guaranteed, not TO).

Barely any of these guys have all of (defensive-minded with ability to guard perimeter/low usage/some sort of jumpshot) requirements, that Kings need at PF next to Boogie, or just to put them on the floor together with DMC. And almost all of these guys will be too expensive as strictly backup Cs.
Only Amir Johnson, O'Quinn and Jerebko fit all 3, and O'Quinn is unproven, while Jerebko is just not good enough to start (would be great addition to rotation though).

I could live with Kaman if we end up drafting Cauley-Stein. He's still a pretty good player for 18 minutes a night. Wouldn't mind Jerebko either. What I don't want to see is Hollins in a Kings uniform next season. Don't get the Danny Green thing at all. Just crazy...

 

[Gilles]

I don't have all the details yet , but this team would be my best realistic outcome of the upcoming off-season:

Collison/Miller/Stuckey/Andrew Harrison(TJ Mcconnell)
Mclemore/Stuckey/Stauskas/RHJ/(Andrew Harrison)
Gay/Casspi/RHJ
Johnson/Thompson/WCS/Gay/Reggie(garbage time frontcourt partner to WCS)
Cousins/Thompson/Johnson/WCS

15th roster spot for 10-day tryouts

People listed at positions mean, I would be comfortable starting and giving 20+ minutes to guys there, if players ahead of them became unavailable (only after 1 more year of experience for Nik and rookies). This roster would have additional flexibility like putting SFs at SG, SGs or WCS at SF, Casspi at PF, but those would depend on matchups.

Amir signed for 4 years starting at $7-7.5 million

On July, 1st Toronto (still have Casey, who was changing Amir's role later in the season) is likely to explore other options first, so Amir is likely to get only a few MLE offers. Kings make a pitch to him consisting of:

1. Solid money (might get more, if he waits though)
2. Starting job (don't think, anyone else will offer him that)
3. Gets to play with elite and unselfish offensive players, who is good at setting their teammates for easy shots, in Boogie, Rudy and, to a lesser extent, Darren, plus Dre off the bench. All Amir had in Toronto was constant screen action instead of P&R - guards were always going to chuck, no matter, how much Amir asked for the ball in good position.
4. If WCS is drafted, ability to give him occasional rest/limited minutes after WCS is acclimated to NBA 2-3 months into the season.
5. Opportunity to never struggle to guard Demarcus Cousins in an NBA game.

Stuckey signed for 3 years with PO option for 3rd year at $5-5.5 million

1. Actually has PO experience, taking backup PG spot behind Billups by the end of his rookie season (as 22 y.o.), and playing all 17 PO games for ECF team, and 4 games in the 1st round exit next season. Detroit went downhill after that.
2. Apparently was bad-mouthed by Detroit last off-season, coming off of $7-8 million contract, and was only picked up for vet min by Indiana (they obviously don't listen to Pistons ), where he played very well as a 6th man, who got to start, when injury bug hit especially hard. Indiana doesn't view him as a starter and can only offer him MLE.
3. Kings can offer same amount of money as Pacers, whatever flexibility he wants built into contract, and at least potential to win a starting job. Now, that Stuckey improved his 3pt shot, especially from the corner, he can play both on and off the ball and log minutes at both guard positions. He's arguably the only realistic option to add ballhandling, penetration and shooting in one signing. Plus he probably learnt to always bring defensive intensity - you can't play otherwise in Indiana.

 

[KingMilz]

One of the reasons that Karl was let go in Denver, was in part his reluctance to play McGee. So why in god's name, would we burden him with the same problem.

99% of Karl being fired was a lack of success in the playoffs playing McGee had little to do with it or none at all, and us bringing McGee here the FO would understand he's a impact player who will play limited mins (15+ depending on how well he's playing). I think IF you can get McGee on a cheap contract as a back up C you could do WAY worse. Like I said McGee played the best ball of his career from a impact on the game point of view with Karl. It's not like Denver kept Javale and made him the starting C after Karl left either (part of that was due to injury).

As a back up C you can limit the damage McGee is going to do to his own team for the most part. If McGee can get back to the form he had when the Nuggets made there playoff run a few years back he's way more valuable to us than 99% of the C's being mentioned here.

For some reason I thought this was the final year of his deal but it says he's set to make like 12million so I doubt we can sign him to a cheap deal.

 

[Gilles]

Looking into WCS' ankle injury I surprisingly found out, that Mcgee had same tibia stress fracture as Randle. Would absolutely love to pick him for vet min, but I don't think any PO team is going to rely on him as a backup C just out of injury concerns, let alone his boneheaded play. But as a 5th big at vet min? Absolutely!

 

[206Fan]

What would it take for the Kings to get a premier free agent? If the Kings move Landry, they'll have enough money to bid on free agents.

 

[ParniValjak]

What would it take for the Kings to get a premier free agent? If the Kings move Landry, they'll have enough money to bid on free agents.

They will not be getting one. We never get premier free agents. Biggest free agent signing has been Vlade Divac and at the time everyone thought he was ridiculously overpaid.

 

[Gilles]

Recently listened to Pacers, Raptors, Spurs and Celtics podcasts, and everybody ranted, how the best FA signing was this former all-star past his prime or that overrated player. Main theme is if a team was in the lottery, no one is looking to join, and you better look for underrated middling talent. Lakers seem to always get premier talent, but their best FA during between Shaq and Pau trades was Vlad Radmanovic. Want good FAs or decent vets on minimum deals? Find moderate success first. If Kings get into POs next season, then they can expect to sign a good FA in 2016. That's why, it's important to exhaust every resource this summer: waive-and stretch Landry, if it helps to sign better role player, make 2016 pick unprotected, offer pick swap 2017 to a team like Houston for their pick to have additional asset this summer (they will need every dollar under cap, if they go after Aldridge).


http://grantland.com/the-triangle/w...he-nba-post-up-game-to-bring-you-its-rebirth/

George Karl
“The game is getting out of balance,” “But until we figure out a way to make the post-up more efficient, we’re not going back. You just can’t win throwing the ball into the post 60 times per game.”
“The reason the post-up doesn’t work anymore is that teams just front now,”
“The thing I am sold on completely,”“is that today, you need as much passing on the court as possible.”
“In a playoff series, you can figure out shooting,” “You just cover Kyle Korver. All that cute stuff they ran for him all year long — they only get that once in a while now. The shooters who have playmaking ability — those are the guys that are really kicking ass.”

Jason Kidd
“There are maybe two handfuls of guys who can post up anymore,”
“Sometimes you need to forget the analytics,” “and remember the best shot is the one closest to the goal.”
“I think the post-up makes a comeback,” “Sometimes it feels like we are making the game harder than it should be. The bottom line is this: The closer you get to the basket, the bigger a threat you are.”

There’s a flip side to this that also bodes well for a post-up comeback: Coaches are getting smarter about exploiting bigs who can’t post up, especially in the playoffs. More coaches go small and send an extra shooter onto the floor, the second they see an opposing big who can’t hurt smaller defenders on the block. A few coaches dipped into small ball against Rudy Gobert late in the season, yanking the French Rejection out of his lair near the rim. The Heat in both Finals series against San Antonio dared Tiago Splitter to post up smaller players.

Coaches have basically played the Matt Bonner/Steve Novak/Mike Scott types off the floor by going small and sticking speedier wings on them — guys who can close fast on 3-pointers and dribble by them on the other end.

Spot-up guys have to be able to catch the ball, pump-fake a defender rushing out at them, drive into the lane, and make some sort of play. If they can’t manage that, a possession dies with them.

Sounds like what Karl has asked Ben to do.

“Teams are switching more,” says Danny Ainge, the Celtics GM. “And that means the post-up is still relevant.”
You don’t have to be great. You just have to be competent. That competence has been a crucial ingredient for Golden State in this series against Terry, and in past playoff series against Tony Parker and Ty Lawson.

Note there's no Conley or Paul mention here, since those guys can play Curry without switches as Darren was able to this season.

 

[randymoss1881]

What's the vibe on a Gerald Green we need more shooting and I don't think we can get Carrol or D.Green and I want nothing to do with Afflalo.

 

[Gilles]

Gerald Green is a chucker with below average defense: was in two places with structured offense in Dallas and Indiana and shot .304 and .314 from 3 - can't function well in such a system. Just above Derrick Williams in terms of priority, but if off-season is a total bust, might as well settle for him.