Where's Webber Going?
- Thread starter Fresno King
- Start date
- Status
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
Lots of possile destinations, bu in the end it will likely be the team with the best chance of a championship run. So if room opens in San Antonio, tha may be the joint. Houston may look good with all the changes but they will be a new untired team with those changes. Now I CAN see RA trying to get togheter as many old vets that he has worked with to play arround Yao and TMac... add in a slimer more motivated Bonzi, a posible Bibby at point and you get a new and improved Kings team, older wiser, slower but brutally potent offense. Not much Defense there so championship is not really in the works bu let's face it Houston is not looking for a championship they just want a strong season and a nice showing in the play offs at this point.
Webber got his payday, now it's all about rings, redemption and respect. Out side of the Spurs maybe Miami, or Cleveland. While the Suns have a shot I just don't see Webb as fit there at all, too slow for their game and really has little to offer a team already stacked for offense. Depending on the changes in Detroit, Webber could be part of a retooled team built arround Prince, Rip and Wallace, but they need young legs and may loose Billiups so who knows at this point what their new line up will look like and what their needs will be.
Webber got his payday, now it's all about rings, redemption and respect. Out side of the Spurs maybe Miami, or Cleveland. While the Suns have a shot I just don't see Webb as fit there at all, too slow for their game and really has little to offer a team already stacked for offense. Depending on the changes in Detroit, Webber could be part of a retooled team built arround Prince, Rip and Wallace, but they need young legs and may loose Billiups so who knows at this point what their new line up will look like and what their needs will be.
hoopsfan
Starter
How much respect do you have for a "ring chaser"?
Personally, I didn't like it when Malone and Payton signed with the Lakers for that very reason. Where's all those same comments for Webber? Just curious.
After thinking about it I could see him going to Chicago. Wallace(Ben) compliments his skillset and they could use a post player/passer like Webber. They also have Tyrus Thomas who compliments him. He'd be surrounded by 2 shotblockers, he wouldn't have to worry about trying to block shots and collecting fouls 99% of the time(which happened a lot in the Cleveland series). He'd get his 22-30 minutes of PT. The East is still pretty weak and he'll be surrounded by a lot of good perimeter defenders with quick feet(like Hinrich and Duhon) and the Bulls have Deng as an upcoming star.
As a fan of Webber, I can say I'll like him whether he gets a ring or not. I want him to win a ring though, so I'm fine with it. I still respect him as a player. He just wants to win.
As a fan of Webber, I can say I'll like him whether he gets a ring or not. I want him to win a ring though, so I'm fine with it. I still respect him as a player. He just wants to win.
Last edited:
Jerryaki
Starter
not a lot, but i think it's more tolerable for webber (and payton), since they aren't/weren't really in a position to do anything else. they were traded from the teams where they could've played for life.
now malone, different story; he left utah to go chase a ring as a free agent.
love_them_kings
Starter
It doesn't bother me, and didn't bother me with Malone or Payton (well, except for me REALLY not wanting the Lakers to win in general
)I think players get to a certain point in their career where the only goal they haven't reached is getting that ring. Webb's been a superstar, he's made more money than one person can spend in a lifetime, he's had banners on the arena proclaiming it as "his house", and he's had a great career on a great team that could never quite get it done. The only thing he doesn't have is a ring.
I'd feel differently if he was on the Kings, and we were struggling & he asked for a trade to try and jump on a better team, because I would feel like he should be more loyal. He doesn't owe any loyalty to Detroit, or any other team, this is just about him trying to get a ring. I hope he manages to do it, although this year may have been his best shot.
Last edited:
Agreed.
It depends on the circumstances surrounding said "ring chaser." Personally, I was (and still am) much more tolerant of Payton, whom was traded from the Supersonics, than I was of Malone, whom left the Jazz as a free agent. I don't have a problem with anybody who's paid their dues in the league "chasing" a ring, as long as they don't abandon a team to do so; Webber didn't abandon a team, in my opinion.
I never begrudge players who have paid their dues for chasing a ring, unless they do so on a team I can't stand (coughrockrichmondcough).
SacKings384
Starter
I don't mind a "ring chaser" as long as they contribute to the team. I don't like a vet going from team to team, rotting on the bench, and hoping he can just grab a ring while he's at it. Webber still has the ability to produce for a team.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
My point about the respect Webber is likely seeking is really not direclty liked to just obtaining a ring, but in HOW he helps a team get it. Webber has endured some unique difficulties in his career. From the moment of the infamous time out he has been visited with criticisims of being over rated, over paied, a choker, soft, etc. His injury caused almost universal loos of confidence underscored by the Maloofs dumping him for junk contrcts. The 76ers lost conficence in less than 2 years. Fortunantly for Webber the short productive stint in Detroit allowed him to show that there was still some game left. I'm just guessing of course but I suspect Webber probably want's to hear how he HELPED a team brought in skills, experience etc that helped win the ring more than the dam jewerly it's self.
Like Slim my respect for Payton did not drop like my respect Malone did but in either case they were joining a team that was ALREADY head and shoulders above the competition tallent wise. Even if Chris joind the Spurs I would hard pressed to consered them more than a half step ahead of Pheonix, Dallas, and Cleveland. And not more than a single trade away from teams like Utha, Golden State, Houston and Miami. In short it's a whole different kettle of fish. And this not to mention that Webber OWES no team anything except an "I told you so."
Like Slim my respect for Payton did not drop like my respect Malone did but in either case they were joining a team that was ALREADY head and shoulders above the competition tallent wise. Even if Chris joind the Spurs I would hard pressed to consered them more than a half step ahead of Pheonix, Dallas, and Cleveland. And not more than a single trade away from teams like Utha, Golden State, Houston and Miami. In short it's a whole different kettle of fish. And this not to mention that Webber OWES no team anything except an "I told you so."
love_them_kings
Starter
I agree with this. I have no doubt that a championship is foremost in Webb's goals for himself at this point (like I said before, that's the one thing he hasn't done), but I don't think he'd get any satisfaction of being handed a ring after warming the bench for an entire offseason. He wants to be part of the reason the team won, otherwise it doesn't prove anything.
...sigh... this is another reason that Detroit seemed almost meant to be this year. He came in, helped revitalize the team, and if they had just won the championship all would be good... sigh...
JoMama
Bench
Agree totally. A ring chaser is a ring chaser - contribute or not IMHO. No respect here.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Different -- Malone in particular was a sellout. He sold out the only team he had ever played for, a franchise with a statue of him out in front of the arena to chase a ring. And he did it in such a way that it subverted the whole idea fo the salary cap. That was disgusting. Payton...eh. Does not deserve any huge kudos for finally getting a ring -- he was a bencher. I've never understood why major players think scoring a ring as an old man off the bench is so important. At least in his first attempt at it with the Lakers he was still a starter, and his franchise, the one that could have had a statue of him out front (does not I would presume) had already cast him off, not the other way around. And as a starter he could still say he was contributing, although the truth was that they had already won 3 without him.
Webb is a different case. He was cast off and written off. So whatever he does now is a story of redemption. if it had happened with detroit he would have had no reason whatsoever to hang his head. That team was floundering before he arrived and struggling to overcome a gaping wound in the middle of the lineup where their heart and been torn out. They revived once Webb hit town, so if they had snuck out with a title, Webb was still a major part of it.
Now...depends where he goes, what happens. Why I floated the Houston idea -- it would let him still feel/be a major component as a starter/mentor ala Vlade. If on the other hand he were to go to San Antonio and just come off the bench for 15 minutes a night as bakcup to Duncna for the defending champs, its not going to mean so much.
Either way, the key ick to the "ring chasers", the sellout factor, does not apply to an aging FA cut loose and just trying to make the best of it.
nbrans
All-Star
I don't know how any Webber fan can criticize Malone and Payton and somehow make a case for Webber. Malone and Payton never openly quit on one team only to have a miraculous "recovery" once he started ring shopping. I hate Karl Malone, but at least he played out his contract. Payton earned it with Miami, hitting big shots down the stretch.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The coach quit on the player just as much as the other way around. The player said, let me play, give me time, let me have the ball and I'll make the other guys better. But Mo Cheeks has proven himself to be quite the *** in his short, wildly unsuccessful coaching career.
As an aside, the miraculous turnoaound only looked so miraculous to people who had ratehr shallowly written him off. When given an opportunity, he could still do those things in Philly. But opportunities were rare. Then voila! Head to a quality franchise with quality players and a quality coahc (yes, he is) who wanted him and had plans on how to use him, and gee, its a miracle!
Adn the whole heart of your agrument is poor -- there is NO comparison from driectly leaving the franchise, YOUR franchise for your entire career, to leaving a team and city who did not want you. Did not want you to such a degree they bought out your contract rather than keep you around. If Webb had signed away from Sacto to go chase a ring, then we could talk. And even that would not have been at the level of a guy who played in one city for 18 freaking years of unabashed adoration.
vladetomiller
Bench
LOL, twisiting it as much as you can.
Malone took less money to play for a contender, that is wrong in your eyes LOL
Webber sucked when he was in Philly, that was the coach's fault, whereas when he miraculously got his step and bounce back when he joined the pistons is correct. Hypocrisy at its extreme
Malone played out his contract, his team didnt want to sign him for what he felt was the market value and then went to a new team, that is wrong LOL
Webber sucked intentionally so that he can be waived, collect that paycheck and then go to a team of his choice, get some more money and try for a ring. That is correct , what a logic
Just because he played for your team doesnt mean you have to forget
College booster issues
Perjury issues
Drug abuse
Sucking intentionally to chase a ring
I am fine if you are supportive of him inspite of all this, but ridiculing two other players for doing the same or similar in much better circumstances, that is hypocrisy
I am glad to see atleast some fans here like Joemama and nbrans for taking a better stance and not accepting any ring chaser. much better that way
I am fine with Malone, Payton and Webber chasing rings, they get to hear about that feeling of winning it all and its good to feel that once.
Malone took less money to play for a contender, that is wrong in your eyes LOL
Webber sucked when he was in Philly, that was the coach's fault, whereas when he miraculously got his step and bounce back when he joined the pistons is correct. Hypocrisy at its extreme
Malone played out his contract, his team didnt want to sign him for what he felt was the market value and then went to a new team, that is wrong LOL
Webber sucked intentionally so that he can be waived, collect that paycheck and then go to a team of his choice, get some more money and try for a ring. That is correct , what a logic
Just because he played for your team doesnt mean you have to forget
College booster issues
Perjury issues
Drug abuse
Sucking intentionally to chase a ring
I am fine if you are supportive of him inspite of all this, but ridiculing two other players for doing the same or similar in much better circumstances, that is hypocrisy
I am glad to see atleast some fans here like Joemama and nbrans for taking a better stance and not accepting any ring chaser. much better that way
I am fine with Malone, Payton and Webber chasing rings, they get to hear about that feeling of winning it all and its good to feel that once.
vladetomiller
Bench
Imagine how much he must have sucked for that team to buy out the max paid player on the team. You conveniently blame it on the coach for all the sucking that happened there, why not blame it on the actual and only person who should be blamed.
This whole discussion is pretty funny. I have no problems with anyone that wants to chase a ring for whatever reason, even Karl Malone. Yes, he probably should have protected his legacy with the Jazz but he wanted a ring. Stockton was gone, what the heck was he supposed to do if he wanted to play another year or two on a competitive team? And Karl tried to produce with the Lakers that year, he just wound up breaking down. But there were spots where he really looked like he was adding to the group.
But back to the ring chasers as a group - its their job, life and decision to make. If that's what they feel they need to do to cap their career so be it. Nobody is going to mistake the ring Rock won in LA for one he would have one as a major contributor during the prime of his career. But for all his years of service he finally went out a winner.
But back to the ring chasers as a group - its their job, life and decision to make. If that's what they feel they need to do to cap their career so be it. Nobody is going to mistake the ring Rock won in LA for one he would have one as a major contributor during the prime of his career. But for all his years of service he finally went out a winner.
nbrans
All-Star
Yeah, I agree with you -- more power to anyone who wants to choose their team and wants to win a ring, whether that's Mitch Richmond, Karl Malone, Gary Payton or Chris Webber.
I just don't see the need to throw other guys like Malone and Payton under the bus to justify rooting for Webber.
Bravo.
People who have never liked Webber are going to be stepping all over each other to be the first in line to point a finger of blame and accuse him of being a "ring chaser." And you know what? I couldn't possibly care less. Chris Webber's got a special place in a lot of Kings fans' hearts. If some don't feel it, who cares?
There are a lot of us who will always be thankful he came here, was part of the greatest team any of us has ever seen in a Sacramento Kings uniform and was a contributing part of the Sacramento community, both publicly and more often behind the scenes.
I still wish him all the luck in the world in whatever he chooses to do. If some people have to still find a reason to try and demonize him or belittle his accomplishments, they will always be able to do so. And that's their right. Arguing with them is like arguing with the moon.
hoopsfan
Starter
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yes, Lakers fan, I do.
And now let me make it very VERY clear for all the emotionally stunted out there. There is one thing, ONE that any fan or fanbase can give to a player. That is love. Its completely irrational -- these tools are "professional" athletes -- parasitical entertainers paid more than 1000 doctors who save people's lives. They serve no purpose, play a child's game that everybody else does just for entertainment, and are showered with money, prestige, and in a few special cases, with love far beyond anything they could in their wildest accomplishments deserve.
And Karl Malone, in a supreme act of selfishness, took a dump on that rarest and most undeserved of adultation for a petty personal goal. For himself.
There is NO comparison to what Webber did, Mitch did, or even Payton did. None. All of those players had been rejected and cut loose. The fans who might have loved them left far behind, and not by their choice. There is no comparison.
And of course the financial point, simple enough for the average grade schooler to understand, is that the league's competitive balance is maintained via the salary cap. The salary cap is dependent in essense on greed. The system only works if the players with the most talent demand the most money, and since the supply of available money is capped at the saem level for every franchise, no franchise should be able to accumulate an unassailable advanatge in overall talent level. This was where BOTH Malone and Payton damaged the league: they cheated the system in essence. Or rather the Lakers did. At the time they signed those contracts both players were still largely considered $8-$10 million aging All Stars. If such behavior became commonplace, the dynastic teams would be completely unassailable, and the salary cap would go the way of baseball. Haves and have nots. If I had not had to endure a variety of idiots pontificating on how useless and finished Webb was for years, I would say this would be the danger with the Webb situation. However, you can hardly complain that he's worthless, and then turn around and complain when said worthless player signs a worthless contract.
Last edited:
And yet any player who leaves his team to chase the biggest paycheck is going to be even more vilified. At least chasing a ring for less money gives the impression that the player might actually be doing it for the love of the game.
Players don't hold the same loyalties to teams that fans do and they shouldn't be expected to. I'm sure every player that comes into the NBA started off as a fan of one team or another and few get drafted by that team. Why should they be expected to give undying loyalty to the team that drafted them unless they are somehow able to justify how that team wronged them?
nbrans
All-Star
You're twisting around on this thing every which way. Karl Malone plays out his contract for the Utah Jazz with dignity, he gave them many good years, they weren't going anywhere with him, he takes one last shot at the championship he wasn't going to get from Utah? Hadn't he earned that? Not to mention that he took less money to do so (such as, you know WEBBER COULD HAVE DONE if he had opted out of his contract). But ah yes, taking less money in a league where so many guys are overpaid threatens the system!! What selfishness!!
Webber was at best disruptive and at worst forced his way out of Philadelphia, doing the types of things (calling out the organization, saying he wants to be traded) that people are dumping on Kobe Bryant for, but hey, he'd only been there two years! Totally fine to take a dump on a team you've only been with for two years.
I loathe Karl Malone intensely and I was a Webber fan the entire time he was in Sacramento, but this is just crazy. If Webber wants to go get a ring, great for him, but come on, to try and treat him like a saint and other guys like selfish ring-chasers just isn't right.
Last edited:
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I rather doubt that.
The move is similar, but when the opposing bid is larger it defllects and confuses the issue -- clearly the home team just did not value the free agent as much as the new team. We saw the same thing with Vlade. It was perceived as us not wanting him back as him abandoning us, althoguht the fractures back home were inevitable.
Malone had no such excuse. His glory was more important to him than his fans. In fact it was considerably worse than if the Jazz had been outbid -- he felt so little for his fans' regard that it, along with vastly more money, was still not enough.
nbrans
All-Star
No, I'm not. What I'm saying is that if Webber wants to go get a ring, that's fine. I don't think there's shame in that. I don't agree with his past actions in Philadelphia, and I think it's ludicrous to tear down guys like Payton and Malone especially given that recent history, but if he wants to go sign with the Spurs in the offseason you won't see me criticizing him. He can do what he wants. Just don't try and tell me he's so much better than the other guys like Payton, Malone and Richmond who did the same thing.
love_them_kings
Starter
WORD. And this is what a lot of it boils down to. Personally, I know I cannot be objective when it comes to Webb, because I treasure what he brought to the Kings and never felt right with how it ended. I wish him the best not only because I like him, but because I feel he was cheated out of what he really wanted, which was retiring as a King. If Webb hadn't been traded I firmly believe he would have continued to play his heart out every day for the Kings, and would have been happy retiring from his legacy with the Kings with or without a ring.
Having that taken from him, going for a ring makes sense to me. For goodness sakes, why not? He already had the ride of a lifetime in Sacramento, now go for the jewelry.
But, you're right. Webb has always invoked strong emotions (positive or negative) and his trade and subsequent career doesn't seemed to have changed that.
- Status
