When Ron comes back- who goes to the bench

[Rain man]

Assuming that Ron and Martin will start...

Do we send Cisco to the bench and let Salmons man the point? Send Salmons to the bench and let Cisco man the point? Have Cisco and Salmons both start, slide Ron to the 4 and bench Moore/Thomas? Send Brad to the bench and let Moore play center?

Interested to hear the thoughts on this. I always figured it would be Cisco, but can Salmons man the point (not as if Cisco and Salmons is a great two man point as it is)

 

[PurpleHaze]

PG - Beno Udrih
SG - Kevin Martin
C - Brad Miller
PF - Ron Artest
SF - John Salmons

Mr. Everything/Energy - Francisco Garcia

 

[kingsfan916]

start ron at the 4

 

[Merdiesel]

damn it...
I hit cisco but ment mikki...
Definitely start Ron at the 4.

 

[John Galt]

Start Ron at the 4.

 

[fnordius]

I didn't vote because I didn't think the options made a lot of sense. After all, we are likely to have 3-4 players returning at about the same time, it won't be just Artest coming back.

1 Udrih, whoever's handy
2 Martin, Garcia, Douby
3 Artest, Salmons
4-5 Miller, Williams, Watkins, Hawes


Towels: KT, SAR, Moore, Greene

 

[Bricklayer]

Ron is not a 4 guys. Nor does he even play very well there. He's a bad rebounder, not a shotblocker, and his great advanatge is in being able to be a lockdown perimeter defender despite his bulk, not in being a too short post defender against much bigger guys. We may still do it, but its no answer.

I think Cisco back to the bench. Try to start Salmons at the PG. Worst case is they both go back to the bench -- that has been the problem with having both of them all along (last eyar too) -- they are similar players and there are not minutes for both if they are 2/3s.

 

[Entity]

I voted to send Cisco to the bench. My reasons are this.

Salmons has a better head on his shoulders and plays within himself so you need him to play the point over a Cisco who can be some what erratic.

You don't wan't to move Ron the 4 in the starting rotation because that will leave you with NOTHING coming off the bench. Let Cisco be the leader of the bench squad. Now I do think at times it is beneficial to have Ron at the 4 with Kev, Cisco, and John especially at the end of games when some tight peremeter defense needs to be played on a 3 point shooter. Or when the other PF are just absolutley bringing nothing to the table. Basically if you can't get rebounds you are worthless on the court because we know you can't score.

Hmm I may have changed my mind while writing my reasons. It would be different if 1 of our PF were getting 10 reb a night and not scoring but 4 or keep the opposing PF from scoring but they aren't. So why not have Ron at the 4 he can easily get the 5 reb an night our PF can get along with 15 to 20 points and can definatley play better defense.

 

[Jespher]

Barkley

I like Ron at the 4 because Ron = Charles Barkley. Seriously! They're both crazy, short post players who play (played) great defense, had nice jump shots, and were crazy... If a 6'5" (or 6'4") Barkley can play power forward against the Karl Malones, Kevin McHales, Horace Grants of the world and lead the league in rebounding, then why can't a 6'7" Ron be successful there too? Especially with everyone loving small ball lineups. Ron is our best post scorer anyways (until we see what Hawes can contribute). Ron is stronger than any of our PFs too, and is a better physical defender. Put him at PF with Cisco at the 3 and they will be 1 + 2 in rebounds for our team. That's a fact Jack.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I like Ron at the 4 because Ron = Charles Barkley. Seriously! They're both crazy, short post players who play (played) great defense, had nice jump shots, and were crazy... If a 6'5" (or 6'4") Barkley can play power forward against the Karl Malones, Kevin McHales, Horace Grants of the world and lead the league in rebounding, then why can't a 6'7" Ron be successful there too? Especially with everyone loving small ball lineups. Ron is our best post scorer anyways (until we see what Hawes can contribute). Ron is stronger than any of our PFs too, and is a better physical defender. Put him at PF with Cisco at the 3 and they will be 1 + 2 in rebounds for our team. That's a fact Jack.

Charles Barkeley could jump out of the gym, though. Ron doesn't nearly have the same athleticism. Going straight up, Charles would outleap KG for rebounds.

I don't like Ron at the four. The best thing he brings to this team is man to man perimeter defense, and that's completely wasted in the post.

 

[fnordius]

Oscar Robertson was only 6'5", and most of our roster is bigger than that. Let's just tell them all to average triple doubles this year. Problem solved!

 

[ZanesvilleFan]

PG - Beno Udrih
SG - Kevin Martin
C - Spencer Hawes
PF - Brad Miller
SF - Ron Ron

If you look at that line-up and throw bibby in there when he gets healthy it makes you wonder how we we cant win 50-55 games.

I mean we still have salmons, garcia, mikki and kt...

Does anyone else seem that we try and play too many people...

I mean i agree on giving a player rest but when he tells coach hes ready to go, get him back in...i think that we could go eight maybe 9 deep and thats all...other than that make bench own their time in practice (if there is such thing in the nba during season)

 

[Bricklayer]

PG - Beno Udrih
SG - Kevin Martin
C - Spencer Hawes
PF - Brad Miller
SF - Ron Ron

If you look at that line-up and throw bibby in there when he gets healthy it makes you wonder how we we cant win 50-55 games.

(sometimes a picture really is worth 1000 words)

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

PG - Beno Udrih
SG - Kevin Martin
C - Spencer Hawes
PF - Brad Miller
SF - Ron Ron

If you look at that line-up and throw bibby in there when he gets healthy it makes you wonder how we we cant win 50-55 games.

You mean aside from the fact that that lineup isn't even as good as the team that only won thirty-three games last year? Are you suggesting that having Theus as a coach is worth twenty more wins?

 

[ZanesvilleFan]

You mean aside from the fact that that lineup isn't even as good as the team that only won thirty-three games last year? Are you suggesting that having Theus as a coach is worth twenty more wins?

im saying that brad miller is no 5 man and never will be...he is a good passer out of the high post so why not use our drat pick when he gets healthy and put Hawes at the 5 and try seeing what brad can do at the 4 spot...then you would have artest at the 3 which should be a pretty good mismatch for any 3 man in the league...I still say that we trade bibby for a pass first PG...we have to many players on this team that think they should be the #1 option

 

[Semi]

PG - Beno Udrih
SG - Kevin Martin
C - Spencer Hawes
PF - Brad Miller
SF - Ron Ron

If you look at that line-up and throw bibby in there when he gets healthy it makes you wonder how we we cant win 50-55 games.

LOL no, it doesn't make me wonder at all. That lineup shows me exactly why we can't win 50-55 games.

 

[Packt]

PG - Beno Udrih
SG - Kevin Martin
C - Spencer Hawes
PF - Brad Miller
SF - Ron Ron

If you look at that line-up and throw bibby in there when he gets healthy it makes you wonder how we we cant win 50-55 games.

Slowest, most unathletic team in the league.

 

[ZanesvilleFan]

I say we try and bring in a t.j. ford andship bibby out. i would have loved to see rondo come in but i doubt that would happen now that boston has the big 3. but i am growing on t.j. ford at the moment. haha

 

[ZanesvilleFan]

Slowest, most unathletic team in the league.

Hey the indiana hoosiers were slow too back in the day. haha

 

[Semi]

I still say that we trade bibby for a pass first PG...

Who do you suggest they get? Do you think we will get anything for an injured Bibby coming off his worst season making $13.5mil?

 

[VF21]

Who do you suggest they get? Do you think we will get anything for an injured Bibby coming off his worst season making $13.5mil?

Logic is such a buzz-kill.

 

[ZanesvilleFan]

Logic is such a buzz-kill.

this is true haha

 

[ZanesvilleFan]

So Semi I am interested in seeing who you would start. Saying that everyone is back and free from injury?

Cause we obviously didnt get it done last year. and i cant say to much for this year yet cause we got a lot of bodies out.

 

[John Galt]

Ron may not be an NBA 4, but neither is KT, SAR, Moore, Justin or Watkins.

Least of evils and it may be crazy enough to work. He's the only guy we have who can be a bully in the paint.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

im saying that brad miller is no 5 man and never will be...

Uhh... yes he is. Miller's career highs in every offensive category have all come playing at the center position, and he has been at his best when playing alongside elite power forwards (Webber and O'Neal). I'm frankly intrigued by the notion that you think seventy-two games played at power forward somehow supersedes the six hundred and thirty some-odd games he's played at center in his college and pro careers.

The hangup that some people have over that 2003-04 season will never cease to perplex me... Miller is not a power forward; he's a center, and he always has been.

 

[VF21]

And, if I might add, the latter half of the game on Tuesday was a return of the Brad Miller I personally hadn't seen on the court in a very long time. He was playing center; he was boxing out for boards - although Garcia was there more than once to grab the ball and tally the rebound; he was hustling and he was looking like a center and not a centerpiece.

 

[ZanesvilleFan]

Uhh... yes he is. Miller's career highs in every offensive category have all come playing at the center position, and he has been at his best when playing alongside elite power forwards (Webber and O'Neal). I'm frankly intrigued by the notion that you think seventy-two games played at power forward somehow supersedes the six hundred and thirty some-odd games he's played at center in his college and pro careers.

The hangup that some people have over that 2003-04 season will never cease to perplex me... Miller is not a power forward; he's a center, and he always has been.

I dont get into the numbers game b/c you never know what he could have done as a power forward. And in my eyes he is more of a power forward who can really shoot the 15 footer and knows how to pass out of the high post.

 

[Bricklayer]

Ron may not be an NBA 4, but neither is KT, SAR, Moore, Justin or Watkins.

Least of evils and it may be crazy enough to work. He's the only guy we have who can be a bully in the paint.

Yes, but the thing is he's a bully against SFs -- that's his edge. What makes him unique. Too big, too strong, for the weenies who normally play the wings. But he's not going to bully PFs who are used to going against guys his size all the time, and used to defending the post.

It can be done -- but the edge then is Ron going outside to the three point line or whatnot, and what you really end up with is a fugly less talented version of the Warriors or some such. Meanwhile one of the best perimeter defenders in the game is stuck defending the post against guys 3 to 4 inches taller than himself, because our 1/2/3s are all skinny little guys who have no chance bodying those guys. Its the sort of gimmick you can (and I would suspect we will) break out for very particular matchups, but general use? Let alone the nights when Duncan etc. come to town?

 

[Bricklayer]

I dont get into the numbers game b/c you never know what he could have done as a power forward. And in my eyes he is more of a power forward who can really shoot the 15 footer and knows how to pass out of the high post.

I remain of two minds over this.

Brad has been, and is, a C. But with both his weight loss, and his seeming inability to be effective at center anymore, and with our first round draft pick playing the position, I would be willing to see him experimented with at PF again. But the flipside is that defensively...that's disaster. Quicker Brad is still just about the slowest PF in the league. And PFs have to be comfortable going all the way out to the three point line when they are guarding guys like Dirk, Harrington, Odom etc. Let alone the pain of watching Brad try to keep up with a Tyrus Thomas (wish we could have got him), Shawn Marion, Yi Jinlian etc.

With this team, given our issues, yeah maybe I give Hawes/Miller a try. But that's still just playing a center out of position, and combined with the rookie's lack of experience, likely to just continue the slaughter inside for us.

 

[Semi]

So Semi I am interested in seeing who you would start. Saying that everyone is back and free from injury?

Cause we obviously didnt get it done last year. and i cant say to much for this year yet cause we got a lot of bodies out.

I would start:

PG: Salmons
SG: Martin
SF: Artest
PF: Moore
C: Miller

Bench:

PG: Garcia
SG: Douby
SF: Thomas
PF: Watkins/Abdur-Rahim
C: Hawes

You keep miller at C, he's not a PF. You don't start Hawes, he is just coming back from surgery, needs time to develop, and has no business going up against the Duncans/O'neals/Stoudemires/Yaos/etc etc of the league.

And honestly, no matter who we start we aren't going to be able to "get it done" this year. This year is about letting our younger guys grow up a bit without being absolutely thrown to the wolves and hopefully building something through the draft. Sorry but there is going to be no 50-55 games for you. Well unless you tell me you're a Rockets/Mavs/Suns/Spurs fan.