What will the Kings record be at the end of December?

[HereWeBoogie]

so we are now 16 games in to the season, and unless something very unexpected happens (Smart gone) i think we are in for a LONG season.

interested to see the Poll results this month compared to last months


looking at the schedule, and considering how incapable Keith Smart is of making common sense NBA coaching moves, i think they will win just 2 games in the month, vs Toronto and the @Pheonix, winning completely based on the talent of DeMarcus and Tyreke

 

[boffacheerios]

Hello everyone. I don't post here very often, but I do occasionally read the topics in my spare time. I'm curious how some fans still blame every coach we bring in for the losses? Eventually we're going to have to admit that this team simply isn't very good. This roster needs a major overhaul if we expect our bottom dwelling to stop. Nobody should be untouchable, and I truly mean nobody (including cousins). Team chemistry is more important to a winning record than talent, and this team has none.

I've watched this rebuild from the beginning and had just as much hope as anyone, but it's time to cut our losses and try again. We need to build around intelligent, well rounded players who facilitate a team oriented game. Year after year we've brought our young players along far too fast in an attempt to market the hell out of them (i.e Tyreke, Demarcus, Marcus and even Isaiah to an extent last season). By doing this we've created selfish players who are unwilling to sacrifice personal gains for team success. I truly believe if we clear house improvement will come much faster.

I have a great deal of respect for all Kings fans who still have faith in this roster, but this team hasn't improved even a little since it's assembly. I haven't ever been to a Kings practice, or seen Keith Smart's teaching or coaching style in person so I can't speak for his ability; but, when a respected, veteran player like John Salmons says he believes all the fault lies with the players, I'm inclined to believe it.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

when a respected, veteran player like John Salmons says he believes all the fault lies with the players, I'm inclined to believe it.

Salmons said that because he is a veteran, and you cant have it looking like a team is revolting against their coach, no matter how much they know he sucks

 

[HereWeBoogie]

So far we got 2 people who think they will go 2-12 in December, 1 says 3-11, 1 says 4-10. clearly the optimism for this team has dropped dramatically in the last couple weeks

 

[Prince_XY]

I truly believe if we clear house improvement will come much faster.

It is not going to happen because PETRIE is not going anywhere. There is just no hope.

Poor GM's like Petrie strike the gold "by luck" (Webber/Divac) only once in their lifetime, then their true incompetent nature shows as time passes. As long as the incompetent Petrie is the GM, the same failed philosophy year after year in this rebuild will emanate and we won't get anywhere. Let us just pray Petrie gets lucky once again on one of the many stupid moves he's doing.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

ya i agree petrie is done. his offseason moves have sucked, most of his draft picks recently have sucked (besides the ones that were obvious and everyone knew who to take like Tyreke and Cousins). bad picks like Douby, Casspi, Jimmer (could have had Kemba Walker or Kawai Leonard), Picking T-Rob when we could have had Harrison Barns this year.....

 

[boffacheerios]

My point is this: Over the course of 4 years we've had 5 coaches. during that time neither the style of play, substitution patterns, nor record has changed significantly. So while it's likely Salmons was just defending his coach, you have to be in deep water to be at that point, and as we all know: Coaches coach, players play. Could it be that Smart is a dud? of course, but If we bring in Jerry Sloan does anyone really think this is a playoff team? And to take it one step further, making the playoffs does not a good team make. If the goal is to win a championship, it's abundantly clear this isn't the team to get anywhere near that goal, so why keep stringing it along?

This is not a particularly exciting team to watch and when they do show flashes they're few and far between. Anybody who's played a sport knows what one bad apple with a bad attitude can do to a team's morale. Basketball is a thinking man's sport, and most of these players look and act just like they did when they came to us.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

My point is this: Over the course of 4 years we've had 5 coaches. during that time neither the style of play, substitution patterns, nor record has changed significantly.

i wouldnt go that far. ive never seen the teams offense as lost, or the sub patterns as bad. the team looked better last year when Westphal was fired, so im really not sure whats keeping Smart as the coach. other than the fact that the owners dont give a crap

 

[boffacheerios]

It is not going to happen because PETRIE is not going anywhere. There is just no hope.

Poor GM's like Petrie strike the gold "by luck" (Webber/Divac) only once in their lifetime, then their true incompetent nature shows as time passes. As long as the incompetent Petrie is the GM, the same failed philosophy year after year in this rebuild will emanate and we won't get anywhere. Let us just pray Petrie gets lucky once again on one of the many stupid moves he's doing.

You act as if you've talked to the man. To be a success in any level of business patience is required. Prior to this point, I had at least some level of faith in this roster and I'm sure Geoff Petrie did as well. If anyone is to blame for this it's not Petrie, but the cost-cutting Maloofs. Every deal made of late has been designed to save money- just as this team has been scantily constructed in order to save money. It's simple: draft players ready to play right away (Tyreke), market them to squeeze every penny out of their image, then don't resign them when it's time for them to get paid (Tyreke).

It's sad, but this is the way things are and will continue to be. I'm not saying anyone should expect to get a star back in a trade, but solid players who aren't head cases and know how to play a team game will suffice. A change of culture is what's needed. Geoff Petrie didn't wake up one day and forget how to do his job; he's being undercut by owners who can't afford homerun deals.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

you make solid points, and it gives me an idea, ive been wondering as a die hard NBA lover, what the hell will be my new team if the Kings move, i dont wanna just jump a bandwagon to a winning team, and i hate the Warriors so im not going with them. as u stated, the Kings are too cheap to pay Tyreke, so ill just go to whatever team he goes to!

 

[mac]

Hello everyone. I don't post here very often, but I do occasionally read the topics in my spare time. I'm curious how some fans still blame every coach we bring in for the losses? Eventually we're going to have to admit that this team simply isn't very good. This roster needs a major overhaul if we expect our bottom dwelling to stop. Nobody should be untouchable, and I truly mean nobody (including cousins). Team chemistry is more important to a winning record than talent, and this team has none.

I've watched this rebuild from the beginning and had just as much hope as anyone, but it's time to cut our losses and try again. We need to build around intelligent, well rounded players who facilitate a team oriented game. Year after year we've brought our young players along far too fast in an attempt to market the hell out of them (i.e Tyreke, Demarcus, Marcus and even Isaiah to an extent last season). By doing this we've created selfish players who are unwilling to sacrifice personal gains for team success. I truly believe if we clear house improvement will come much faster.

I have a great deal of respect for all Kings fans who still have faith in this roster, but this team hasn't improved even a little since it's assembly. I haven't ever been to a Kings practice, or seen Keith Smart's teaching or coaching style in person so I can't speak for his ability; but, when a respected, veteran player like John Salmons says he believes all the fault lies with the players, I'm inclined to believe it.

Respected veteran player like John Salmons? Lol ok ... Tell me when the players actually tell the media to blame the coach.

Now certainly things like energy and execution falls on the player. But here's the deal, we've now played 16 games this season. Add that on to the 60 games Smart had last year. In about 75 games, have you seen us develop any consistent set offense? Say what you will, but the fact that a guy is in the NBA means something: it means that he can play basketball. I watched the Spurs "scrubs" take on the Heat and I still saw them executing well, setting screens and freeing guys up for open 3s and layups. What is a coach's job exactly, if not to develop a team - ensuring that they set good screens and make hard cuts and what have you in order to run the offense that you draw up? Keith Smart has not done that. And his rotations are puzzling as well as they don't create any consistency or chemistry.

 

[mac]

My point is this: Over the course of 4 years we've had 5 coaches. during that time neither the style of play, substitution patterns, nor record has changed significantly. So while it's likely Salmons was just defending his coach, you have to be in deep water to be at that point, and as we all know: Coaches coach, players play. Could it be that Smart is a dud? of course, but If we bring in Jerry Sloan does anyone really think this is a playoff team? And to take it one step further, making the playoffs does not a good team make. If the goal is to win a championship, it's abundantly clear this isn't the team to get anywhere near that goal, so why keep stringing it along?

This is not a particularly exciting team to watch and when they do show flashes they're few and far between. Anybody who's played a sport knows what one bad apple with a bad attitude can do to a team's morale. Basketball is a thinking man's sport, and most of these players look and act just like they did when they came to us.

Yup, but it sure would be nice to break bottom 5 in the league wouldn't it? If anything all the lottery picks should have allowed us to stockpile talent, yet here we are, second worst team in the league ... probably would be the worst if Wall wasn't injured. We have no injuries to push the blame on, save for maybe these 2 games where Tyreke was out.

 

[boffacheerios]

Respected veteran player like John Salmons? Lol ok ... Tell me when the players actually tell the media to blame the coach.

Now certainly things like energy and execution falls on the player. But here's the deal, we've now played 16 games this season. Add that on to the 60 games Smart had last year. In about 75 games, have you seen us develop any consistent set offense? Say what you will, but the fact that a guy is in the NBA means something: it means that he can play basketball. I watched the Spurs "scrubs" take on the Heat and I still saw them executing well, setting screens and freeing guys up for open 3s and layups. What is a coach's job exactly, if not to develop a team - ensuring that they set good screens and make hard cuts and what have you in order to run the offense that you draw up? Keith Smart has not done that. And his rotations are puzzling as well as they don't create any consistency or chemistry.

Yes, believe it or not John Salmons is a respected player. It's not necessarily because of his play; it's mostly because he acts professional unlike 75% of our roster "Lol". I don't know if anyone here has ever coached a team at any level, but from my experience I can say there are a lot of moving parts on a team. A player can have all the talent and potential in the world, but they're uncoachable because their mental abilities don't match their physical abilities. This type of immaturity is crippling to any team and the coach has zero control over it. If you want this team to run like the spurs look at their history of personnel. They don't take chances on players like we do because they know it's not worth the trouble in the end. They approach building a team the exact way I've been lobbying for: with smart, team oriented players who have a head for the game.

Have you seen Keith Smart's playbook? Because if not the claim that he isn't doing his job simply isn't backed by any evidence. I can't say he's a great or even decent coach because I don't know. Details like that are not meant for the public to know because he's the head coach and we're the fans. What I will say is I seriously doubt the organization has let 5 head coaches take the reigns without some knowledge of their opinions of the way the game should be played. Each one had some level of success before being given our head coaching job, which shows they're not completely incompetent. As far as the rotations go, it's not as if we have a lineup that runs the score on teams, we're 4-12 in our 7th straight pitiful losing season. The goal is to win one game at a time, and when the team is down big the coach is going to try something different, it's called adaptation. That's why good teams have consistency in their rotations and bad teams don't, we're a bad team. It's about time for some change outside of the head coaching position.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yes, believe it or not John Salmons is a respected player. It's not necessarily because of his play; it's mostly because he acts professional unlike 75% of our roster "Lol". I don't know if anyone here has ever coached a team at any level, but from my experience I can say there are a lot of moving parts on a team. A player can have all the talent and potential in the world, but they're uncoachable because their mental abilities don't match their physical abilities. This type of immaturity is crippling to any team and the coach has zero control over it. If you want this team to run like the spurs look at their history of personnel. They don't take chances on players like we do because they know it's not worth the trouble in the end. They approach building a team the exact way I've been lobbying for: with smart, team oriented players who have a head for the game.

Have you seen Keith Smart's playbook? Because if not the claim that he isn't doing his job simply isn't backed by any evidence. I can't say he's a great or even decent coach because I don't know. Details like that are not meant for the public to know because he's the head coach and we're the fans. What I will say is I seriously doubt the organization has let 5 head coaches take the reigns without some knowledge of their opinions of the way the game should be played. Each one had some level of success before being given our head coaching job, which shows they're not completely incompetent. As far as the rotations go, it's not as if we have a lineup that runs the score on teams, we're 4-12 in our 7th straight pitiful losing season. The goal is to win one game at a time, and when the team is down big the coach is going to try something different, it's called adaptation. That's why good teams have consistency in their rotations and bad teams don't, we're a bad team. It's about time for some change outside of the head coaching position.

Give me one real coach who will EVER coach again in the NBA after leaving Sacramento, and we'll talk. Until then, its just excuses for unworthy objects. Keith Smart has the 2nd worst career winning percentage of any coach in the entire NBA. The only one worse was the completely idiotic hire of Randy Wittman in Washington, who has benched his vets and has his team sitting at an awesome 1-13 right now (hey, that turd got rehired, maybe Smart can talk his way into another job after all). And gee, shocker, they've both killed their team's playoff hopes before December. And I would wager that they may well be the two lowest paid coaches in the league too. As in you get what you pay for. The sickness starts much higher than the coaches -- the coaches are just a symptom. The players though...I absolutley GUARANTEE you this team is far FAR better with a real coach. Rick Adleman is here right now, we are not 4-12. No way. No how.

So the real question becomes how dumb are you? You've hired another crap coach...do you in stubbornly supporting one of the worst coahces in the league, who everybody but you knows is one of the worst coaches in the league, then dump all your young talent in trying to save the crap coach's job? I wouldn't put it past us. But that's only because the organization is an embarassment.

 

[boffacheerios]

Give me one real coach who will EVER coach again in the NBA after leaving Sacramento, and we'll talk. Until then, its just excuses for unworthy objects. Keith Smart has the 2nd worst career winning percentage of any coach in the entire NBA. The only one worse was the completely idiotic hire of Radny Wittman in Washingon, who has benched his vets and has his team sitting at an awesome 1-13 right now (hey, that turd got rehired, maybe Smart can talk his way into another job after all). And gee, shocker, they've killed their team's playoff hopes before December. And I would wager that they may well be the two lowest paid coaches in the league too. As in you get what you pay for. The sickness starts much higher than the coaches -- the coaches are just a symptom. The players though...I absolutley GUARANTEE you this team is far FAR better with a real coach. Rick Adleman is here right now, we are not 4-12. No way. No how.

So the real question becomes how dumb are you? You've hired another crap coach...do you in stubbornly supporting one of the worst coahces in the league, who everybody but you knows is one of the worst coaches in the league, then dump all your young talent in trying to save the crap coach's job? I wouldn't put it past us. But that's only because the organization is an embarassment.

Let's not bring ourselves down to personal attacks, eh mr. moderator? If you think I'm supporting the coach you misread my post. What I'm trying to get across is that at some some point we have to stop blaming everything on the coach and put some responsibility on this heap of a roster we're throwing on the court. For me that time has come, but maybe it will take some people longer. Guaranteeing a better team with a "real" coach is pointless in this situation. If you need more please read the rest of my posts, I will not engage in petty arguments with fellow Kings fans.

 

[mac]

Let's not bring ourselves down to personal attacks, eh mr. moderator? If you think I'm supporting the coach you misread my post. What I'm trying to get across is that at some some point we have to stop blaming everything on the coach and put some responsibility on this heap of a roster we're throwing on the court. For me that time has come, but maybe it will take some people longer. Guaranteeing a better team with a "real" coach is pointless in this situation. If you need more please read the rest of my posts, I will not engage in petty arguments with fellow Kings fans.

I don't think he was referring to you ... I think he meant "you" as in the Kings organization. Unless you were the one who hired Keith Smart?

By the way, Mr Respected professional John Salmons is the same guy who pouted, sulked, and played terribly when he was put on the bench a couple of years ago.

Tell me, what success did Keith Smart have prior to us hiring him? Reggie Theus?

No I have not seen Keith Smart's playbook, nor have I seen Gregg Popovich's or Phil Jackson's. Funnily enough though, the teams of 2 of these coaches run visible set plays every single night, while I'm more inclined to guess that Keith Smart's playbook reads "Iso Cousins and Evans, then scold the players for not passing the ball". His playbook is to just run! Run! Run! Same thing with Golden State.

Totally disagree about adaptations. Good coaches, regardless of the make up of the team, find the best lineup that works early on and sticks to that and develops it. If the players aren't very good the team won't win many games, but you'll at least see them executing some sort of offense out there.

 

[Warhawk]

Let's not bring ourselves down to personal attacks, eh mr. moderator? If you think I'm supporting the coach you misread my post. What I'm trying to get across is that at some some point we have to stop blaming everything on the coach and put some responsibility on this heap of a roster we're throwing on the court. For me that time has come, but maybe it will take some people longer. Guaranteeing a better team with a "real" coach is pointless in this situation. If you need more please read the rest of my posts, I will not engage in petty arguments with fellow Kings fans.

mac is correct - his comment is for MSE, not you. Re-read it.

 

[boffacheerios]

My mistake guys I misinterpreted that post, please disregard that part. I'm not known to give off great first impressions. Hopefully there's no disdain towards me because I genuinely feel this way as a fan. It just seems like we've already gone through so many coaches and now everyone's back on the "Fire ______" bandwagon. If it were a serious possibility to go out and get a Stan Van Gundy or Jerry Sloan then I'd be all for it, but we all know that's not realistic. I just can't help but think we could possibly have the worst roster in the league when it comes down to the mental aspect of the game. I've seen high school teams who execute better than this team, and it's those mental mistakes, just as Smart always seems to bring up in his post game interviews, that lead me to believe a roster shake up is coming.

 

[hrdboild]

My mistake guys I misinterpreted that post, please disregard that part. I'm not known to give off great first impressions. Hopefully there's no disdain towards me because I genuinely feel this way as a fan. It just seems like we've already gone through so many coaches and now everyone's back on the "Fire ______" bandwagon. If it were a serious possibility to go out and get a Stan Van Gundy or Jerry Sloan then I'd be all for it, but we all know that's not realistic. I just can't help but think we could possibly have the worst roster in the league when it comes down to the mental aspect of the game. I've seen high school teams who execute better than this team, and it's those mental mistakes, just as Smart always seems to bring up in his post game interviews, that lead me to believe a roster shake up is coming.

Well, you're right in a way. The team just isn't very good. We keep collecting players that nobody else wants, with mismatched skillsets, and then trying to force them into roles that they aren't capable of filling. But a lot of these guys are very young players who still need a lot of guidance. Someone said a couple of weeks ago that the problem is that we have a bunch of individual players who don't know how to play together as a team. We have no real way of knowing what's said in practices and how much of it is being ignored, but ultimately it's the job of every NBA coach to mold a group of great individual players into a team. Putting aside all the stats and positions and rotations and wins, does it look like we're closer to having a group of players who function as a team than we were when Smart took over? I'd say no.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

lol the poll says it all about the state of the franchise. the die hard Kings fans that still care about the team enough to be on this forum, think that they will win between 0 and 4 of their 14 games this month............

 

[iowamcnabb]

Well, you're right in a way. The team just isn't very good. We keep collecting players that nobody else wants, with mismatched skillsets, and then trying to force them into roles that they aren't capable of filling. But a lot of these guys are very young players who still need a lot of guidance. Someone said a couple of weeks ago that the problem is that we have a bunch of individual players who don't know how to play together as a team. We have no real way of knowing what's said in practices and how much of it is being ignored, but ultimately it's the job of every NBA coach to mold a group of great individual players into a team. Putting aside all the stats and positions and rotations and wins, does it look like we're closer to having a group of players who function as a team than we were when Smart took over? I'd say no.

Here is a quote from Kobe regarding Gasol having to adjust his game to fit needs


"The reality is, I've adjusted, I've never run this many screen-rolls in my entire career. But I've worked on it. I've worked on handling the ball. I've worked on coming off of screens and making plays. I'm used to being in the post much, much more but you have to adjust."

Wouldn't it be nice if our players would take that approach? We constantly complain about roles and lack of development and yet none of that will matter if the player doesn't choose to man up and adjust. That emotional maturity and work ethic is what separates the best from the rest.

 

[The_Jamal]

ya i agree petrie is done. his offseason moves have sucked, most of his draft picks recently have sucked (besides the ones that were obvious and everyone knew who to take like Tyreke and Cousins). bad picks like Douby, Casspi, Jimmer (could have had Kemba Walker or Kawai Leonard), Picking T-Rob when we could have had Harrison Barns this year.....

Jimmer and Trob kind of need a chance to play before we label them "bad picks" Kemba, Barnes, and Kawhi have all experienced success because they're getting 30+ minutes a night to perform and work through their rookie struggles.

 

[rainmaker]

Here is a quote from Kobe regarding Gasol having to adjust his game to fit needs


"The reality is, I've adjusted, I've never run this many screen-rolls in my entire career. But I've worked on it. I've worked on handling the ball. I've worked on coming off of screens and making plays. I'm used to being in the post much, much more but you have to adjust."

Wouldn't it be nice if our players would take that approach? We constantly complain about roles and lack of development and yet none of that will matter if the player doesn't choose to man up and adjust. That emotional maturity and work ethic is what separates the best from the rest.

Adjust to what, exactly? Gasol is being asked to adjust from his former role to a new one. That's completely different than not having a role and simple saying adjust to the role you don't have.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Jimmer and Trob kind of need a chance to play before we label them "bad picks" Kemba, Barnes, and Kawhi have all experienced success because they're getting 30+ minutes a night to perform and work through their rookie struggles.

we have seen plenty from Jimmer to know that Kemba or Kawhi was a better pick. i knew that before the draft even happened.

as for T-Rob, i like him a lot, but im speeking on who would have helped the team more, an undersized PF, or Barnes, a talented athletic SF who can shoot 3's?

 

[gunks]

Jimmer and Trob kind of need a chance to play before we label them "bad picks" Kemba, Barnes, and Kawhi have all experienced success because they're getting 30+ minutes a night to perform and work through their rookie struggles.

And they arnt playing for a trash coach on a trash team. That kind of helps development.

We will continue to flail pathetically through December. Same POS owners, same indifferent and incompetent GM, same mentally disabled coach and players.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

crazy how fast this team, and coach, took a poop on all the optimistic fans. 5 people think the team will go 0-14 in December lol. and 26 out of the 27 voters think the team will do 4-10 or worse!

 

[Glenn]

crazy how fast this team, and coach, took a poop on all the optimistic fans. 5 people think the team will go 0-14 in December lol. and 26 out of the 27 voters think the team will do 4-10 or worse!

And we keep watching and discussing.

 

[Jose]

we have seen plenty from Jimmer to know that Kemba or Kawhi was a better pick. i knew that before the draft even happened.

as for T-Rob, i like him a lot, but im speeking on who would have helped the team more, an undersized PF, or Barnes, a talented athletic SF who can shoot 3's?

Doesn't matter - whoever you picked would have been wasted in this team. Here, they'd just join the chuck and duck squad and never develop to their potential.

If any of our players had been picked by another team, with an actual coach, an actual system, and a front office that cares we'd be claiming how good they are and how we should have picked them instead. It's unfair to compare players who have had a chance to flourish to the poor guys stuck in this mess.

 

[LWP777]

crazy how fast this team, and coach, took a poop on all the optimistic fans. 5 people think the team will go 0-14 in December lol. and 26 out of the 27 voters think the team will do 4-10 or worse!

I was one of the guys who picked them to go 0-14 (did it out of spite!). Do I really think that? No, but I do think they will probably be like 3-11 or something horrific like that.

We can talk this to death but the bottom line is our players are terrible. Yes we have the worst owners in professional sports. Yes, we have an incompetent GM. Yes, we have a horrible coach. All those things aren't helping but I'm telling you, we wouldn't win many more games with Jerry Sloan and this roster. Do you really think Jerry Sloan is going to change DMC's immaturity? Is he going to give Reke a jumpshot? Is he going to improve JT's bad basketball IQ? Is he going to make our terrible 4-12 guys suddenly effective when they haven't done it consistently in their entire NBA careers?

The team needs to be blown up. Start by trading DMC and Reke. Hopefully you get enough in return to build a new foundation. Then slowly weed out the ineffective role players for others.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Adjust to what, exactly? Gasol is being asked to adjust from his former role to a new one. That's completely different than not having a role and simple saying adjust to the role you don't have.

Adjusting to what the defense has taken away and what they are giving for starters. In general more maturity and leadership