what was the last movie you watched?

Have you read the book? The book is excellent. There is definitely more "science" than was shown in this movie - they must have cut out over 90%. Even so, the book seemed like it would still be accessible to "non-sciencey" folks. Not like Three Body Problem (while I still enjoyed it, that one was pretty out there). 😬

No, I haven't read the book for this or for The Martian, but I've seen enough interviews with Andy Weir that I have a pretty good idea of how he thinks. I'm sure there are all sorts of details explained in the book which are interesting to read but didn't need to be in the movie...

But there were two sequences in particular where just watching this with no knowledge of the book it felt clear to me that the process of how the main character reasons through a solution to a problem was extremely significant to making the story believable. In the one case because it is what provides the fuel which makes this trip possible at all and in the second case because it is the answer to how our heroes are going to solve their universe destroying problem. In both of these cases the movie fast-forwards right past most of the science with a musical montage instead, the filmic equivalent of handwaving.

Which makes it clear that the filmmakers didn't think those details were important to the story that they wanted to tell. The movie's point of view appears to be that breeding amoeba is too boring to show on-screen, but we do need a sequence where our scientist hero teaches his engineer friend how to surf in VR. I'm not going to say that they're objectively wrong... And I did still enjoy the movie because a number of the emotional beats really landed for me and the visual presentation was rather stunning. It was really only a minor disappointment in the sense that I missed more of what made The Martian so special. Watching smart characters solve really difficult problems in innovative and unexpected ways is rather rare, even in sci-fi. We're more often presented with the broad strokes and a couple lines of techno-babble about warp drives are sprinkled in and then quickly forgotten. That was the approach taken here and given that this came from an Andy Weir book, I can't help feeling a little disappointed that the filmmakers took the easy way out.

I also didn't entirely buy that Ryland Grace spends about 5 seconds scribbling on a white board and evidently calculates a perfect intercept trajectory across multiple star systems to meet up with Rocky without any kind of communication system. How would he know his exact speed and that he hasn't stopped and turned back at some point once he realized that the Taumoeba was consuming his fuel supply? Or now that I think about it, we're shown a map of the galaxy where only one star system is not infected with Astrophage. So why is not having enough fuel to get home ever a problem? Can't they just use those other star systems like gas stations to fill up on the way?

I don't like to nitpick plot details if the story works emotionally though so I didn't need all of these questions answered. I can go along with Ryland Grace making the decision to save his friend instead of going home as a key turning point for his character, regardless of the how and why of it. I'm okay with this movie not being The Martian, it is its own thing. But in aiming for big emotional moments but short-cutting some of the steps the narrative needs to take to get there, those emotional moments didn't feel as earned here as they could have been. I often get accused of being overly critical when I try to articulate any kind of short-coming that I observe in a movie instead of just saying "it was good, I liked it". My reaction to any movie is what it is, I just try to be honest about it and examine what I think it is from a nuts and bolts storytelling point of view that I'm responding to, either positively or negatively.
 
No, I haven't read the book for this or for The Martian, but I've seen enough interviews with Andy Weir that I have a pretty good idea of how he thinks. I'm sure there are all sorts of details explained in the book which are interesting to read but didn't need to be in the movie...

But there were two sequences in particular where just watching this with no knowledge of the book it felt clear to me that the process of how the main character reasons through a solution to a problem was extremely significant to making the story believable. In the one case because it is what provides the fuel which makes this trip possible at all and in the second case because it is the answer to how our heroes are going to solve their universe destroying problem. In both of these cases the movie fast-forwards right past most of the science with a musical montage instead, the filmic equivalent of handwaving.

Which makes it clear that the filmmakers didn't think those details were important to the story that they wanted to tell. The movie's point of view appears to be that breeding amoeba is too boring to show on-screen, but we do need a sequence where our scientist hero teaches his engineer friend how to surf in VR. I'm not going to say that they're objectively wrong... And I did still enjoy the movie because a number of the emotional beats really landed for me and the visual presentation was rather stunning. It was really only a minor disappointment in the sense that I missed more of what made The Martian so special. Watching smart characters solve really difficult problems in innovative and unexpected ways is rather rare, even in sci-fi. We're more often presented with the broad strokes and a couple lines of techno-babble about warp drives are sprinkled in and then quickly forgotten. That was the approach taken here and given that this came from an Andy Weir book, I can't help feeling a little disappointed that the filmmakers took the easy way out.

I also didn't entirely buy that Ryland Grace spends about 5 seconds scribbling on a white board and evidently calculates a perfect intercept trajectory across multiple star systems to meet up with Rocky without any kind of communication system. How would he know his exact speed and that he hasn't stopped and turned back at some point once he realized that the Taumoeba was consuming his fuel supply? Or now that I think about it, we're shown a map of the galaxy where only one star system is not infected with Astrophage. So why is not having enough fuel to get home ever a problem? Can't they just use those other star systems like gas stations to fill up on the way?

I don't like to nitpick plot details if the story works emotionally though so I didn't need all of these questions answered. I can go along with Ryland Grace making the decision to save his friend instead of going home as a key turning point for his character, regardless of the how and why of it. I'm okay with this movie not being The Martian, it is its own thing. But in aiming for big emotional moments but short-cutting some of the steps the narrative needs to take to get there, those emotional moments didn't feel as earned here as they could have been. I often get accused of being overly critical when I try to articulate any kind of short-coming that I observe in a movie instead of just saying "it was good, I liked it". My reaction to any movie is what it is, I just try to be honest about it and examine what I think it is from a nuts and bolts storytelling point of view that I'm responding to, either positively or negatively.
Agreed 100%. A few comments:

The flight was preprogrammed. Rocky had been at that solar system for over 40 years when Grace showed up. Rocky did all the fancy piloting to get the ships close together. Grace did have to learn some basic piloting and centrifuge maneuvers but the instructions were in the computer system.

They cut out entire “minor” story arcs about the Astrophage and Taumoeba, including covering thousands of square miles of Africa in primitive mass production lines for “manufacturing” Astrophage as well as the Taumoeba breeding cycles they used to build up nitrogen tolerance.

They didn’t even address the use of nukes in Antarctica, etc., in an intentional effort to increase global warming to provide additional time for humans to survive until a possible “solution” was sent back to Earth.

The room on the ship with the video walls was not in the book. That was all for the film.
 
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Agreed 100%. A few comments:

The flight was preprogrammed. Rocky had been at that solar system for over 40 years when Grace showed up. Rocky did all the fancy piloting to bet the ships close together. Grace did have to learn some basic piloting and centrifuge maneuvers but the instructions were in the computer system.

They cut out entire “minor” story arcs about the Astrophage and Taumoeba, including covering thousands of square miles of Africa in primitive mass production lines for “manufacturing” Astrophage as well as the Taumoeba breeding cycles they used to build up nitrogen tolerance.

They didn’t even address the use of nukes in Antarctica, etc., in an intentional effort to increase global warming to provide additional time for humans to survive until a possible “solution” was sent back to Earth.

The room on the ship with the video walls was not in the book. That was all for the film.

Ah yeah, that makes sense.

The reaction to this movie does support my hypothesis that truly great movies rarely score higher than around 76% on Rotten Tomatoes at time of release. You have to take some big risks to make a story which is personal enough to truly surprise and inspire people. And those personal details are really going to hit hard for some of your audience but also go right past others. When a movie scores in the upper 90s right away on RT that generally indicates to me that there is a whiff of the milquetoast about it. You can pull your best punch a bit and invite a bigger audience to jump on-board but by doing so you're probably also giving up any shot at a TKO. The growers -- works which take time to fully reveal themselves -- often are the ones I find myself turning back to more.

It's not a hard-and-fast rule, just something that I've observed starting with "Saving Private Ryan" (currently 94%) and "The Thin Red Line" (currently 80%) in 1998. I enjoy both movies but the one with the lower score stuck with me longer and it's the one I find myself thinking about more over the years. It's hard to go back and check on this after the fact though because scores tend to creep up over over time once a movie gets accepted into the pantheon of "Great Films" by the collective culture. "The Thin Red Line" was scored in the mid 70s when it came out.

William Goldman (best known for writing the screenplays to "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" and "All the Presidents Men") wrote a book about his screenwriting journey called "Adventures in the Screen Trade" and a lot of his anecdotes are about how he felt star actors used their relative power over the process of getting a movie made to often (subconsciously) make decisions at the story level which were more about assuaging their own ego then telling the best story possible and often those decisions were to the detriment of the movies they produced and starred in. But then he (Goldman) was the screenwriter so it is also quite possible that this is his own ego speaking... "Obviously if we'd done things my way, this movie wouldn't have flopped." He apparently hates what was done to "All the Presidents Men" so maybe The. Writer. doesn't know everything? :)
 
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