What style do the Kings play now?

S

swisshh

Starter
Maybe I'm a hoops nerd, but I quickly forgot about worrying about Artest's troubles and began thinking of how the team will play when Ron arrives and Bonzi gets healthy.

Starting 5
Bibby
Bonzi
Miller
Artest
Thomas

Bench
Shareef
Martin
Garcia
Hart =(

So, looking at the starters, I notice that there's a lot less jump shooters than before. You still have Miller and Bibby, but you have three guys who are not 'the system' guys. Movement can still work, I am just wondering about the inside getting clogged with Bonzi, Shareef and Artest. I think the trade hurts Bonzi's game since both Artest and him will be trying to work from the same spots on the floor.

In the past the coaching staff has been reluctant to adapt the offense and style for different players. I think they pretty much have no choice now. It'll be interesting to see how and if they can do it.

Now looking at the bench, you can take some good things from all the experience and improvement Martin and Garcia have made due to the injuries. My worry though, is that Adleman's rotations are normally no higher than 8 players, if that. That pushes one of those guys right out.

Defensively this team could be a lot better, but the coaching staff hasn't ever had a defensive focus. Can they start using actual defensive schemes? WIll they preach it? Does Bibby and Miller still leave two big holes that bring down the whole defense? Lots of questions there. Inspite of that, the team SHOULD be a hell of a lot better at rebounding.
 
One thing for sure...

It's a whole new ball game.

I'll question your placement of KT in the starting lineup, however. I strongly believe SAR will regain his starting slot once he's got his jaw unwired.
 
If no one has noticed as of late, we don't play much "princeton" like we did.

Now, its Bibby/Miller pick and roll. Give it to Ron. Bibby/Miller pick and roll. Give it to Bonzi. Brad and Ron probably have some things they know with eachother and they may work it in, but I don't have fears about our offense. Rick Adelman is a brilliant offensive basketball mind. He knows anyway to get his team to score.

The defense has been the problem for most of the year. Hopefully this helps.

Its true that Reef, Bonzi, and Ron are all post up players, but they also have respectable face up games.
 
Who said Reef is comming off the bench after he recovers from the injury. Reef is a better fit with Artest and Bonzi than Kenny Thomas. We are going to be a half-court type of team.
 
I don't know. I don't think we are done making moves. Just have to wait and see I guess. I DON'T want to see this team be a team trying to do what we attempted early in the season. We can't be the big man passing Princeton team we were. Even more now with Ron Artest. I am sure we will still utilize Brad's passing, but even Rick has acknowledged the fact that this makes us a completely different team.
 
As an aside Artest really is not nearly the rebounder he should be. Defensively an animal. Offensively has become as potent as any King, maybe moreso. But reboundingwise...puzzling. A little undersized to be a great boarder of course. But tough as nails and one of the strongest guys in the league. Should be better.


As a further aside. KT is just not a high level NBA starter, BUT I am not at all sure Bonzi/Artest/Reef works just because of the spacing issues. Also think that this trade may actually up the value of both Brad and Bibby to us because they are kind of the last of the shooters. Never thought that would happen in Kingsville, but there it is. There is something to the idea of making Reef the 6th man. But I doubt that's what he wants, and KT is not the guy you'd want starting ahead of him.

And yes, the offense really should change now. Can still be Princeton sets from time to time, but especially with Artest coming in to give us a whole new flavor, you just have to change things up to take advantage of him.

I would mix in a lot of two man game with Bibby/Brad, iso postups for Bonzi/Artest, and really would like to see that PF manned by a big shotblocker/rebounder type who stays out of the way. My highest Princeton set percentages might be run while Brad is in and Garcia was on the floor. In any case, its kind of silly to try to run the same offense with Miller/Kt?SAR?tradefforguy?/Artest/Bonzi/Bibby as you did with Vlade/Webber/Peja/Christie/Bibby.
 
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Why have Reef out there and give up an extra 5-6 rebounds a game? His lack of rebounding is killing us. Id rather have Kenny go 4-10 every night and back it up with 11 rebounds than have Reef go 6-9 with only 5 reb's. We aren't going to win if the opposing team is shooting 15-20 more shots than us.
 
SacTownKid said:
I don't know. I don't think we are done making moves. Just have to wait and see I guess. I DON'T want to see this team be a team trying to do what we attempted early in the season. We can't be the big man passing Princeton team we were. Even more now with Ron Artest. I am sure we will still utilize Brad's passing, but even Rick has acknowledged the fact that this makes us a completely different team.
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I totally agree...I think Geoff is still going to make one more move, hopefully for a guy like a Dan Gadzuric or something, good hustle and rebounding off the bench to add to our new attitude. I think the style of play should imitate the old Detroit Pistons of the 80's/early 90's, actually. It was boring as hell, but pretty to watch if you were from Detroit, they won back-to-back with that style. We shall soon see. Oh, and glad to see you're 'Off Strike' STK, welcome back.;)
 
Circa_1985_Fan said:
I totally agree...I think Geoff is still going to make one more move, hopefully for a guy like a Dan Gadzuric or something, good hustle and rebounding off the bench to add to our new attitude. I think the style of play should imitate the old Detroit Pistons of the 80's/early 90's, actually. It was boring as hell, but pretty to watch if you were from Detroit, they won back-to-back with that style. We shall soon see. Oh, and glad to see you're 'Off Strike' STK, welcome back.;)
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Thanks, it was a rough two days! :D I must say however, that I am fully prepared to go back on strike if we suck! ;)
 
ESP47 said:
Why have Reef out there and give up an extra 5-6 rebounds a game? His lack of rebounding is killing us. Id rather have Kenny go 4-10 every night and back it up with 11 rebounds than have Reef go 6-9 with only 5 reb's. We aren't going to win if the opposing team is shooting 15-20 more shots than us.
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Kenny Thomas needs to start. He's useless off the bench, as we now know...but damn consistant for the most part in the starting lineup. Not sure how Reef does off the bench. Who knows...might GP have been fooling us all along and look to trade Reef??
 
SK23 said:
Who said Reef is comming off the bench after he recovers from the injury. Reef is a better fit with Artest and Bonzi than Kenny Thomas. We are going to be a half-court type of team.
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He may not be actually since all of those guys want to attack the paint. Not that KT is ideal either.
 
Circa_1985_Fan said:
KT is more ideal for our new attitude and style, than Reef, though.
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why so he can let PF's like Maurice Taylor have career nights... :rolleyes:
 
i hope its alot more of an aggressive style..... i hope we dont continue to let opposing teams run layup drills all dam day..... if someones comin down the lane i want to see someone step infront and take the charge or someones giving a hard foul
 
Circa_1985_Fan said:
KT is more ideal for our new attitude and style, than Reef, though.
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Problem is can't stop anybody. Nor help anybody else stop anybody.

I do agree by the way that watching Artest interact with some of the starters, notably Reef, is going to be interesting. KT has more of a tough guy mindset. But he still is what he is.

I've said before, I think that 5th starter should really be a very tall non-shooting/scoring defensive/rebounding minded guy, That doesn't describe either KT or Reef. Describes Skinner to a certain degree, but he's not a high level example. And all sorts of other considerations -- in no particular order: KT can run the Princeton better than Reef I think, although still nothing like vintage. So he could be kept as the last guy to complement Brad when we want to run it. SAR has the pedigree and at times still thinks he's at the level of the great players. Kenny does rebound. SAR has shown good man to man defense. Neither is an effective team defender or shotblocker. Reef doesn't board. KT can't defend bigger guys. Reef's greatest contribution remains his post scoring. Reef is quiet. KT is grumpy. Think Reef would work better off the bench than Kenny if it came to that. KT would rather start than win. Reef....?

In any case, if we have Ron 20+pts and Bibby 20pts and Brad and Bonzi 15pts each, that is all the offense there is room for in the starting lineup. That 5th guy really has to be a guy who excels in other areas and does not worry about offense if we are to acheive balance. Even back in the day we only had Webb 25, Peja 20, Bibby 15, Vlade 12, Doug 10. 5th guy for us here should be that Doug player who does not need shots to contribute.
 
Well obviously the Kings style jsut got light years more agressive, but I am not sure about the need abandon the Princton offense or swith up KT and Reef. Remember despite Artests ablity to atack the hoop he is still essentially a permiter player who has a very sweet jumper. Of course he cannot spread the floor like Pedja but who can? With Brad at the high post Reef low Bonzi and Artest can still attack the hoop at times, they just need to shoot enough from the wings to keep the defense honest. I predict that as usual with new guys Artest's passing will greatly improve.
 
Tall non-shooting/scoring defensive big men:

1. Sam Dalembert
2. Tyson Chandler
3. Joel Przybilla
4. Eddie Griffin? (shorter, but does have a shot)
5. Brendan Haywood
6. Tony Battie
7. Steven Hunter
8. Rasho Nesterovic
9. Nazr Mohammed
10. Dan Gadzuric

Not a great list of players, but most would help us out. Not all are starter quality, and not all are attainable through trade. As an aside, who do we offer?
 
HndsmCelt said:
Well obviously the Kings style jsut got light years more agressive, but I am not sure about the need abandon the Princton offense or swith up KT and Reef. Remember despite Artests ablity to atack the hoop he is still essentially a permiter player who has a very sweet jumper. Of course he cannot spread the floor like Pedja but who can? With Brad at the high post Reef low Bonzi and Artest can still attack the hoop at times, they just need to shoot enough from the wings to keep the defense honest. I predict that as usual with new guys Artest's passing will greatly improve.
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Hmm..not sure I agree with that assessment of Ron's offensive game. Part of his improvement as an offensive player as been the development of that jumper, but at the end of the day if you have him spotting up outisde without the ball in his hands to make room for somebody else you are pretty much wasting him offensively.

edit -- btw, guess I should add "we'll see soon enough". We've gotten to watch so little of Ron Artest ON the court in the last couple of years that he could be standing in the corner shooting underhand threes for all I knwo at this point.
 
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Bricklayer said:
Hmm..not sure I agree with that assessment of Ron's offensive game. Part of his improvement as an offensive player as been the development of that jumper, but at the end of the day if you have him spotting up outisde without the ball in his hands to make room for somebody else you are pretty much wasting him offensively.
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Adelman better not tell Ron to stand in the corner! :mad:
 
LPKingsFan said:
Tall non-shooting/scoring defensive big men:

1. Sam Dalembert
2. Tyson Chandler
3. Joel Przybilla
4. Eddie Griffin? (shorter, but does have a shot)
5. Brendan Haywood
6. Tony Battie
7. Steven Hunter
8. Rasho Nesterovic
9. Nazr Mohammed
10. Dan Gadzuric

Not a great list of players, but most would help us out. Not all are starter quality, and not all are attainable through trade. As an aside, who do we offer?
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he is slower now that Vlade ever was
 
1. Sam Dalembert -- not attainable
2. Tyson Chandler -- would do it. Large contract is the only problem. Well, that and maybe Chicago can't/won't trade him because they are incredibly undersized themselves.
3. Joel Przybilla -- possible, but slow, and he and Brad together are SLOW
4. Eddie Griffin? (shorter, but does have a shot) -- not that much shorter (6'10") + athletic, terrible shooting percentages though, and while I liked this idea before, with Ron and Bonzi here think adding Grffin would be just asking for a JailBlazers lockerroom
5. Brendan Haywood -- possible, but not actually that great a defender, more of a post scorer, and again very slow pure center. He and Brad together would be very slow.
6. Tony Battie -- minor league player, not a starter on a good team
7. Steven Hunter -- overrated. Does not rebound. Sixers are finding out they may have overpaid.
8. Rasho Nesterovic -- would Spurs trade midseason? Another slow combo, and soft to boot. But more mobile than Haywood or Pryzbilla.
9. Nazr Mohammed -- not much of a shotblocker really, again not sure if Spurs would trade.
10. Dan Gadzuric -- like him, possibly attainable. Good athlete for a big guy. But probably would end up coming off the bench for us.

Blount and Kandi are off the market obviously. Not that I would have wanted either. Swift might be available, but he has not impressed and might be even more of a knucklehead than I thoguht he was. Evans is available and would possibly fit, but he's all rebounding fierceness with no shotblocking/defensive help. Gooden is avaiulable, but not what we need. He's available because he's undersized and not a good defender or terribly bright. Harrington might be availble, but again, not what we need. We alredy have guys likr that. Wright is very likely off the market with Memphis winning, and is no answer anyway IMO. Kurt Thomas might have been on the market at one point, but no longer with Phoenix desperate for size. PJ Brown is reportedly unavailable, and would obviously be a very temporary patch anyway.

There are reasons I keep on circling back to Chandler. 7'1" young shotblocker/rebounder who is a natural PF but can swing to backup center and patch that hole too. Great athlete. Just a big contract. Althoguh really if we could get him for some of Philly three contracts, who cares how big his deal is? We already have large dead salaries sitting around. Just have real doubts about Chicago making that deal even if they are unhappy with him because of their ridiculous lack of size otherwise.
 
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Bricklayer said:
Hmm..not sure I agree with that assessment of Ron's offensive game. Part of his improvement as an offensive player as been the development of that jumper, but at the end of the day if you have him spotting up outisde without the ball in his hands to make room for somebody else you are pretty much wasting him offensively.
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While I'd never acuse Ron of being a spot up shooter he DOESE work best with the ball from the outside, weather he drives at the hole or takes the jumper. At 6'7" he really does not do that well getting the ball down low against larger defenders (ask Ben Wallace about it). So regardless of where he scores from having him out side looking for the ball is a god thing.
 
LPKingsFan said:
You're right. He really has no business on that list!
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totally agree...Rasho has pretty much been a softy his whole damn career. Gadzuric and Mohammed I think are definetely attainable...I know Mohammed got in Pop's doghouse for some reason and got put in the Keon Clark sinbin on the end of the bench.
 
SacTownKid said:
Thanks, it was a rough two days! :D I must say however, that I am fully prepared to go back on strike if we suck! ;)
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I'd like to say we'd miss you, but seeing as your last strike lasted, what, less than 24 hours, I'm not too worried!;)
 
Bricklayer said:
1. Sam Dalembert -- not attainable
2. Tyson Chandler -- would do it. Large contract is the only problem. Well, that and maybe Chicago can't/won't trade him because they are incredibly undersized themselves.
3. Joel Przybilla -- possible, but slow, and he and Brad together are SLOW
4. Eddie Griffin? (shorter, but does have a shot) -- not that much shorter (6'10") + athletic, terrible shooting percentages though, and while I liked this idea before, with Ron and Bonzi here think adding Grffin would be just asking for a JailBlazers lockerroom
5. Brendan Haywood -- possible, but not actually that great a defender, more of a post scorer, and again very slow pure center. He and Brad together would be very slow.
6. Tony Battie -- minor league player, not a starter on a good team
7. Steven Hunter -- overrated. Does not rebound. Sixers are finding out they may have overpaid.
8. Rasho Nesterovic -- would Spurs trade midseason? Another slow combo, and soft to boot. But more mobile than Haywood or Pryzbilla.
9. Nazr Mohammed -- not much of a shotblocker really, again not sure if Spurs would trade.
10. Dan Gadzuric -- like him, possibly attainable. Good athlete for a big guy. But probably would end up coming off the bench for us.

Blount and Kandi are off the market obviously. Not that I would have wanted either. Swift might be available, but he has not impressed and might be even more of a knucklehead than I thoguht he was. Evans is available and would possibly fit, but he's all rebounding fierceness with no shotblocking/defensive help. Gooden is avaiulable, but not what we need. He's available because he's undersized and not a good defender or terribly bright. Harrington might be availble, but again, not what we need. We alredy have guys likr that. Wright is very likely off the market with Memphis winning, and is no answer anyway IMO. Kurt Thomas might have been on the market at one point, but no longer with Phoenix desperate for size. PJ Brown is reportedly unavailable, and would obviously be a very temporary patch anyway.

There are reasons I keep on circling back to Chandler. 7'1" young shotblocker/rebounder who is a natural PF but can swing to backup center and patch that hole too. Great athlete. Just a big contract. Althoguh really if we could get him for some of Philly three contracts, who cares how big his deal is? We already have large dead salaries sitting around. Just have real doubts about Chicago making that deal even if they are unhappy with him because of their ridiculous lack of size otherwise.
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I don't know about that. Joel is one of the more athletic players on that list.

I would like to add Etan Thomas to that list. He is a good defender and tough.
 
Hunter is overrated. He seems to think he's Amare when he should be looking up to Dalembert. When he's in the game all he's concerned about is scoring - runs up the floor, sticks his hands out and waits for the pass; doesn't do anything else. That 1 block is probably the only thing keeping him in the league. He had a great opportunity when Dalmebert was injured but he didn't make a case for himself at all.
 
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