What kind of team are we building?

[Luv4Kings]

What kind of team are we building here? A "star-centric" team or an "everyone contributes" team?

Star-centric teams like the Iversion 76ers, the LeBron Cavs, and the Kobe Lakers - are we going to be the Evans Kings?

The old team we were used to at the turn of this Century (boy, sounds like a long time ago!) was an "everyone contributes" team. We had a big name in Webber, but he wasn't the kind of player to have the ball all the time. It was a pass and then pass again team where anyone could be the star that night - from Doug Christie to Mike Bibby.

Now our team has 1 real point guard and he comes off the bench. We have a bunch of swingmen playing the 1 through the 4 most of the time and basically 1 center who was benched last game.

So we are now "Evans" team and just what does that mean? Does he need to have the ball 90% of the time to be effective? Will everyone else just stand around and watch? He's a huge talent, but is it the kind of talent that wins championships? Or the kind that has "wow" moments in games but doesn't win much?

We've got a bunch of Petrie "individual basketball players" without a purpose or any unity.

Will one big man really make the difference? One more draft pick? An off-season signing?

I'm not seeing it.

 

[Asaf]

I was actually thinking similar things last night. Tyreke is amazing, but it seems like the more dominant he becomes, the more passive the rest of the players become. Last night he had 28 points and 13 assists, which means he was directly involved in 54-58 points out of our 89 points. This does not say good things about our team offense when offensive plays seldom involve more than 1-2 players. Tyreke is a star in the making, but when you have one guy who is so far above any other guy in the team hierarchy, that is not a good thing for team chemistry and the motivation of the other players to be more daring and take chances.

 

[VF21]

When you first open a jigsaw puzzle, all you see is a jumble of pieces. As time goes on, and you try the pieces to see which ones fit and which ones don't, the big picture begins to become clearer...

We've barely opened the box.

 

[Kingstime]

I don't see a Tyreke Evans/Kings squad doing much damage with just Tyreke and role players. It's a different NBA you need ATLEAST 3 highly skilled guys to get a ring. It's definitely more of a team game then before. Kobe, Lebron or Wade will need a buttload of help to get a ring, so regardless of how good Reke becomes he will need the same.

In the future I see this team growing and maturing through the draft to gain pieces, eventually landing that big time free agent within the next 2 years.

So to answer your question I hope GP is building a complete team with a closer(Reke).

 

[Rookie]

Tough and Hard

Balls of steel

The only thing we're lacking is experience and chemistry. Hopefully that would solve some of the way we play defense and offense. But overall cannot question their effort.

 

[kennadog]

There's more than one way to win a championship and its absolutely not fair to judge this team by that one. If you keep wanting that team or an facsimile back, you will be perpetually disappointed.

I loved that team. I felt they should have had the 2002 championship. Now they are a treasured memory and I look forward to whatever kind of team makes us a contender again. I'll wait and see what that looks like.

 

[ricerer]

When you first open a jigsaw puzzle, all you see is a jumble of pieces. As time goes on, and you try the pieces to see which ones fit and which ones don't, the big picture begins to become clearer...

We've barely opened the box.

We've also tried forcing the pieces that don't belong together!

 

[Bricklayer]

We're becoming an Evans team, and that's a good thing. "Team play" is very cute and very rah rah high school, and its also resulted in very few NBA championships.

Now the real key will be if we can find a complimentary star to play wingman on this Evans team. When you do that to a top level talent, then you start getting title runs.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

the problem right now is we dont have any creators on offense other then evans and beno. Nobody has the skill to create for others. We are playing a 610 SF/PF at SG?... i see that as a problem. What we need there is a Doug Christie type of player to help initate offense and keep the ball moving effectively. In the long term I see Evans being one half of a backcourt of guards that can both create for others and themselves. No traditiondal PG, but two very good passers that more then make up for it.

Another thing im dissapointed in this year is the lack of passing from the big men. Hawes is a great passer that has learned from the best.. but for some reason we went away from the highpost offense that he can be soo effctive at running.

It would be nice too see Evans improve his off-ball game. But hes too busy worrying about learning the PG spot. And we cant expect him to learn everything in one season. Hes not superhuman.. or is he?

 

[Luv4Kings]

There's more than one way to win a championship and its absolutely not fair to judge this team by that one. If you keep wanting that team or an facsimile back, you will be perpetually disappointed.

I loved that team. I felt they should have had the 2002 championship. Now they are a treasured memory and I look forward to whatever kind of team makes us a contender again. I'll wait and see what that looks like.

I was simply describing "that" team as an example of the opposite of Iverson-ball.

Also, with Evans, it's not likely we will ever have "that" kind of team anyway.

My question is about "THIS" team and where is it headed based on the talent we now have, or don't yet have.

 

[Luv4Kings]

the problem right now is we dont have any creators on offense other then evans and beno. Nobody has the skill to create for others. We are playing a 610 SF/PF at SG?... i see that as a problem. What we need there is a Doug Christie type of player to help initate offense and keep the ball moving effectively. In the long term I see Evans being one half of a backcourt of guards that can both create for others and themselves. No traditiondal PG, but two very good passers that more then make up for it.

Another thing im dissapointed in this year is the lack of passing from the big men. Hawes is a great passer that has learned from the best.. but for some reason we went away from the highpost offense that he can be soo effctive at running.

It would be nice too see Evans improve his off-ball game. But hes too busy worrying about learning the PG spot. And we cant expect him to learn everything in one season. Hes not superhuman.. or is he?

That's a good observation. Like I said, we have 1 real point guard in Beno, a new type of point guard in Evans, and the only other guy who can set people up is Hawes. Otherwise, we don't have a lot of guys capable of getting many assists. We have a lot of "swing men" who like to dribble and shoot.

 

[SacTownGrantFan]

It's pretty simple, we are an Evans-team if we don't get another great player. If we get another great player, we are the Evans-(Insert great player) team.

 

[hammystyle]

I'm not sure what type of team we are building...

...I'm not sure it matters either. What I do think is important is that I'm quite sure that Tyreke Evans has the potential to be the best player on a championship team. I believe Omri and Donte have the potential to be major contributors to a championship team, like 3rd best player and 4th best player (maybe 4-5 is more realistic). Can't you see Donte D'in up on Durant, Melo, and LeBron in epic playoffs battles for the next decade? JT and Hawes I'm not as sure about in terms of key championship contributors, but the potential is there with improvement.

So how do we get from our current reality, to a title contender? That elusive second star, ideally a great two-way post player gets us pretty close. Once that second star emerges, his and Tyreke's roles become clear, and everyone else just figures it out. If they can't figure it out you replace them with players who do.

So this draft is huge...if we end up with Cousins or Favors I will dream of them reaching their potential and being the top 20 compliment to Reke's top 5. If we get Cole Aldrich, I'll be happy we got a solid center but know the search continues.

 

[drboiffard]

We're becoming an Evans team, and that's a good thing. "Team play" is very cute and very rah rah high school, and its also resulted in very few NBA championships.

Now the real key will be if we can find a complimentary star to play wingman on this Evans team. When you do that to a top level talent, then you start getting title runs.

It's not black or white. "Team play" may have resulted in very few NBA championships, but one-man offenses have never resulted. Allen Iverson's 76ers, Kobe's Lakers between Shaq and Gasol, last year Brandon Roy's Blazers. Completely failure teams at playoffs. Even an absurdly beasting guy as LeBron James hasn't win a championship yet with a one-man based offense. You can't win a ring without aces on the sleeves. Being on the map again and being real contenders isn't the same thing IMHO

 

[ovrush]

I was actually thinking similar things last night. Tyreke is amazing, but it seems like the more dominant he becomes, the more passive the rest of the players become. Last night he had 28 points and 13 assists, which means he was directly involved in 54-58 points out of our 89 points. This does not say good things about our team offense when offensive plays seldom involve more than 1-2 players. Tyreke is a star in the making, but when you have one guy who is so far above any other guy in the team hierarchy, that is not a good thing for team chemistry and the motivation of the other players to be more daring and take chances.

So by this standard if Steve Nash has a 20 point 20 assist game it was a bad thing since he was involved in too many of his teams points? This is rediculous.

People around here seem to think Tyreke isn't a point guard because he is so "ball dominant". In the same breathe they opine about not having a guy like Nash or CP3 etc....Except those guys are ball dominant too. If you watch a Suns game guess who has the ball the most?

Does the team look different from our glory days team that ran the princeton motion offense? Yes. Does it look drastically different than a traditional NBA offense? No. I love the princeton and it was a pretty style with tremendous players but ultimately the NBA is a star league. Titles are won by Kobe and MJ and DWade making the big plays on the big stage. We now have a star who can make those level of plays he just has to grow a bit.

If Tyreke improved his shooting and his passing in the pick and roll the offense would be fine. As far as the rest of the guys, a lot of them had the same problems last year when we had Beno running the point and no star out there. Donte still was lost on offense, JT and Spence were still maddeningly incosistent. Cisco was still... well injured. It's part of having a young rebuilding team not a result of having a star.

The Thunder look great this year, but they also went through a lot of losing and getting the number 2 and 5 picks in one draft, the number four pick in the next and the number three in the draft after that. It takes time with young players. We'll get there we just can't expect it to happen in one year.

 

[cstorm]

When you first open a jigsaw puzzle, all you see is a jumble of pieces. As time goes on, and you try the pieces to see which ones fit and which ones don't, the big picture begins to become clearer...

We've barely opened the box.

If I can expand on this metaphor, we have completed the corners of the puzzle and got really excited...then came that difficult middle section where the puzzle is less defined...and we are stalled.

The question is: Will we struggle and overcome this difficult phase to reach the stage when every piece just falls in to place,
or will we sweep the damn puzzle off the dining room table and switch to scrapbooking?

 

[NME]

If I can expand on this metaphor, we have completed the corners of the puzzle and got really excited...then came that difficult middle section where the puzzle is less defined...and we are stalled.

"Damn, another sky-piece!"

 

[ovrush]

the problem right now is we dont have any creators on offense other then evans and beno. Nobody has the skill to create for others. We are playing a 610 SF/PF at SG?...

I disagree on this point slightly. I think Donte is more than capable of playing the shooting guard spot and has the most potential to be "special" at that spot. He's more than athletic enough to stay with elite offensive NBA shooting guards defensively and played Kobe extremely well. He needs to develop offensively but he absolutely has the physical tools to be a shooting guard. He is more than quick enough, his handling is solid for a shooting guard, and his shot mechanics are ok.

He needs to work on making his shot consistant and on his decision making. Aside from that I don't see any huge limitations to him being a shooting guard.

As a power forward, Greene is a gimmick. His ceiling is Rashard Lewis who creates mismatches offensively but is easily countered by a true power forward. He could definitely be a very very good small forward. As a shooting guard he is a complete and total matchup nightmare. He is athletic enough to play defense against any shooting guard in the league, and with his size he should be able to shoot over and post up almost any shooting guard in the league.

You can give him time developing at the 4 and turn him into a gimmick or you could take the risk of him having some bad bad nights learning the shooting guard for the chance of him becoming truly special.

We have to remember this is essentially his rookie year after being way over his head last year. He's made truly remarkable progress from last year defensively and from a maturity standpoint. This leads me to beleive that he can continue to develop once he knows his position. I just hope its at the 2 and not at the 4.

 

[Luv4Kings]

It's not black or white. "Team play" may have resulted in very few NBA championships, but one-man offenses have never resulted. Allen Iverson's 76ers, Kobe's Lakers between Shaq and Gasol, last year Brandon Roy's Blazers. Completely failure teams at playoffs. Even an absurdly beasting guy as LeBron James hasn't win a championship yet with a one-man based offense. You can't win a ring without aces on the sleeves. Being on the map again and being real contenders isn't the same thing IMHO

And that is exactly my fear. That we'll have a great run with Evans, some really cool wow-moments to watch and nothing ultimately to show for it.

 

[Luv4Kings]

If I can expand on this metaphor, we have completed the corners of the puzzle and got really excited...then came that difficult middle section where the puzzle is less defined...and we are stalled.

The question is: Will we struggle and overcome this difficult phase to reach the stage when every piece just falls in to place,
or will we sweep the damn puzzle off the dining room table and switch to scrapbooking?

We got this really cool piece that goes right in the middle, but nothing seems to match up with it.

 

[ovrush]

And that is exactly my fear. That we'll have a great run with Evans, some really cool wow-moments to watch and nothing ultimately to show for it.

Except Evans is 20 years old and we're still adding to the team. We have a draft choice and money to sign free agents to you know add to him. Just because we have Tyreke doesn't mean we'll have 15 years of tyreke centered offense. Look at what you listed Kobes team (they added to it) last year's portland team (they added to it). How about Dwayne Wades second year int he league? (they added to it) MJs bulls didnt win the title in his first year in the league (although he was called too ball dominant). Lebron James team didn't win it all last year but if they do this year something has changed on the roster (they added to it)

ok i had to edit to add to this because im in disbeleif at how crazy some people are being. Did Cav fns start worrying that Lebron would never get to a championship after less than a year? How about Bulls fans with Jordan? Is it smart for fans to really ever sum up what a players career will be like 60 games into it? It just blows my mind that after 60 some games we're summing up not only Tyrekes career, but we're characterizing the results of the entire franchize over his career. How about a little perspective people...

That's the crazy thing about Rome... it wasn't built in a day.

 

[hammystyle]

We got this really cool piece that goes right in the middle, but nothing seems to match up with it.

So do you think the cool piece is the problem, or the other puzzle pieces that were put together for a 17 win season?

 

[hammystyle]

What kind of team are we building here? A "star-centric" team or an "everyone contributes" team?

Star-centric teams like the Iversion 76ers, the LeBron Cavs, and the Kobe Lakers - are we going to be the Evans Kings?

The old team we were used to at the turn of this Century (boy, sounds like a long time ago!) was an "everyone contributes" team. We had a big name in Webber, but he wasn't the kind of player to have the ball all the time. It was a pass and then pass again team where anyone could be the star that night - from Doug Christie to Mike Bibby.

Now our team has 1 real point guard and he comes off the bench. We have a bunch of swingmen playing the 1 through the 4 most of the time and basically 1 center who was benched last game.

So we are now "Evans" team and just what does that mean? Does he need to have the ball 90% of the time to be effective? Will everyone else just stand around and watch? He's a huge talent, but is it the kind of talent that wins championships? Or the kind that has "wow" moments in games but doesn't win much?

We've got a bunch of Petrie "individual basketball players" without a purpose or any unity.

Will one big man really make the difference? One more draft pick? An off-season signing?

I'm not seeing it.

To put it further. Other than Webber, Evans is worth more than the rest of that team put together.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I disagree on this point slightly. I think Donte is more than capable of playing the shooting guard spot and has the most potential to be "special" at that spot. He's more than athletic enough to stay with elite offensive NBA shooting guards defensively and played Kobe extremely well. He needs to develop offensively but he absolutely has the physical tools to be a shooting guard. He is more than quick enough, his handling is solid for a shooting guard, and his shot mechanics are ok.

He needs to work on making his shot consistant and on his decision making. Aside from that I don't see any huge limitations to him being a shooting guard.

As a power forward, Greene is a gimmick. His ceiling is Rashard Lewis who creates mismatches offensively but is easily countered by a true power forward. He could definitely be a very very good small forward. As a shooting guard he is a complete and total matchup nightmare. He is athletic enough to play defense against any shooting guard in the league, and with his size he should be able to shoot over and post up almost any shooting guard in the league.

You can give him time developing at the 4 and turn him into a gimmick or you could take the risk of him having some bad bad nights learning the shooting guard for the chance of him becoming truly special.

We have to remember this is essentially his rookie year after being way over his head last year. He's made truly remarkable progress from last year defensively and from a maturity standpoint. This leads me to beleive that he can continue to develop once he knows his position. I just hope its at the 2 and not at the 4.

He's s SF/PF tweener dude... He dosent have the ball handling or passing needed at the 2.. or the quickness to guard smaller 2 guards in the league (see rip hamilton last night, Udoka was inserted pretty fast). He is just not the player we need beside evans. We need a playmaker/ball handler/shooter beside Reke. Donte might be able to play the 2 on occasion, but not all the time. he is a natural 3.

 

[Luv4Kings]

So do you think the cool piece is the problem, or the other puzzle pieces that were put together for a 17 win season?

I'm wondering if someone took 3 different puzzle boxes and dropped them on the floor and didn't put them back in the right box...

OK, that's probably stretching the puzzle analogy a little far, but it was fun.

 

[Luv4Kings]

Except Evans is 20 years old and we're still adding to the team. We have a draft choice and money to sign free agents to you know add to him. Just because we have Tyreke doesn't mean we'll have 15 years of tyreke centered offense. Look at what you listed Kobes team (they added to it) last year's portland team (they added to it). How about Dwayne Wades second year int he league? (they added to it) MJs bulls didnt win the title in his first year in the league (although he was called too ball dominant). Lebron James team didn't win it all last year but if they do this year something has changed on the roster (they added to it)

ok i had to edit to add to this because im in disbeleif at how crazy some people are being. Did Cav fns start worrying that Lebron would never get to a championship after less than a year? How about Bulls fans with Jordan? Is it smart for fans to really ever sum up what a players career will be like 60 games into it? It just blows my mind that after 60 some games we're summing up not only Tyrekes career, but we're characterizing the results of the entire franchize over his career. How about a little perspective people...

That's the crazy thing about Rome... it wasn't built in a day.

I'm not crazy, just thinking out loud and wondering what the next steps might be for Petrie.

I was pretty happy last November and early December and then we crashed. Which looking back was probably to be expected since this team isn't anywhere near as ready as we were hoping.

I'm looking forward and just wondering how we will turn out when this team is finally "built".

If we didn't discuss this amongst ourselves, then why have a forum?

 

[pshn80]

We're becoming an Evans team, and that's a good thing. "Team play" is very cute and very rah rah high school, and its also resulted in very few NBA championships.

Now the real key will be if we can find a complimentary star to play wingman on this Evans team. When you do that to a top level talent, then you start getting title runs.

Don't ever down play 'team play'. It's alright to be star driven. We don't have that other star right now, so we need to find him. One way is playing the ones we have but if you don't have him then we're 'patiently' waiting for him to be hired or developed. True stars need team play. Team play. Team play. Team play. We don't have the second star but we can hope to develop a little team play.

 

[Nighthawk1]

My take on this is we are becoming "Star" driven.

And I'm happy with this fact. I think our team-work will also come in time though. We have a young core, and they all seem to click pretty well with the exception of the wild line-ups that take place on a bi-nightly basis now. These young guys just need some time to mesh.

What's really exciting, is the fact we have prospects that can step-up and become Tyrekes running buddy.. Infact, I look at all of them being capable of doing it..
Donte and Casspi mainly, but even Landry and JT aren't far behind anymore. Spence is off in space somewhere, but he also has the potential if he ever gets his head straight to be an amazing offensive player with average defensive skills.

Almost all of our young guys have shown great promise, and once they learn to be more consistant I think we could see a mesh of both possibly. If they all step up, I think we will be a 30% star 70% teamwork, but when they are all struggling I think we can easily see a 70% 30% teamwork team with Tyreke taking over. I guess only time will tell, but I don't think having BOTH is out of the question at the moment.

 

[fnordius]

What kind of team are we building here?

 

[drboiffard]

Look at what you listed Kobes team (they added to it) last year's portland team (they added to it). How about Dwayne Wades second year int he league? (they added to it) MJs bulls didnt win the title in his first year in the league (although he was called too ball dominant). Lebron James team didn't win it all last year but if they do this year something has changed on the roster (they added to it)

I wouldn't consider Wade and the Miami as they had Shaq in a good shape. MJs bulls started to be a real contendent precisely when MJ started to play team ball, and with people as Pippen by their side.

But I'll take the Blazers example as what not to do, I always say the same, but that team was talented enough to have done a great job at playoffs. They won the Lakers in almost every game of the regular season. The problem was not what pieces lacked around Roy, the problem was the one-man based offense.Plain and simple. They have a lot of depth in the bench and when the PO arrived, they just ignored it all and went conservative and relied on Roy's shoulders. That's a thing to avoid. You can't come and play 5 matches against the same team with the same offensive schema, because you're predictable and you're always screwed. One-man based offenses team sucks at play-offs. You can build and build around a superstar that it won't never work. The only one-man based offense which may win a ring is this year's Cavs. If LeBron doesn't win the ring this year, I won't take any one-man based offense as what to do if you have a superstar and want to be contender. And that being fair, cause it's not the same a LeBron-based offense than any other superstar based offense, including Kobe.

And I'm not talking about not building around Tyreke. I'm only saying that a Tyreke-based offense may bring the Kings again to the map, but there's a lot more to do to be real titlecontenders. It's not even about building around Tyreke or not, because it's clear it's the obvious move and I think nobody it's saying teh opposite. It's about avoiding to put more emphasis in "around" than in "building". I don't know if I explain it clearly whit that one