What is it we fans want?

What do the fans want?

  • Total voters
    95
KingsFanGER said:
Well I agree. One can argue if Malone wasn't given enough time. And I wrote in a different thread, that I'm not supporting PDA on firing Malone. But if you want to pay attention to both sides, you have to take into account, that coaches like Budenholzer established a defense and an offense at the same time.
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While this is true:
  1. It took Budenholzer longer than one season, and
  2. He had better two-way players to start with. Let's not act like he made chicken salad out of chicken ****; he's taken a perennial playoff team, and gotten them to take the next step.
 
Bricklayer said:
Offense is irrelevant for this franchise. Quit thinking offense. It makes for dumb basketball people. Everything that has gone wrong in Sacramento for the past 8+ years has been on the other end of the ball, while the basketball vidiots in charge worried about offense. Offensive myopia is for tourists and casual fans.

Our offense was sufficient. We scored enough points. Our big deficiency was in assists, but then again that's because the idiot rodent in charge has put together a roster 2/3 full of inferior passers/creaters, and then blamed the coaches for not making them into San Antonio.
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Well we agree that defense is more important. We disagree on all the rest. ;)
What puts a solid defense at a disadvantage, especially when the defensive anchor is a massive low post player always late getting back? Turnovers and missed shots, fueling transition baskets for the opposing team.
For every team it is important to execute at a high rate on offense and to keep the turnovers as low as possible. How do you achieve this? You try to get easy, high percentage shots and pass the ball, to avoid double teams and traps.
And this is why a solid offense is important and even with a dominant big man you run into troubles if you ignore this.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
While this is true:
  1. It took Budenholzer longer than one season, and
  2. He had better two-way players to start with. Let's not act like he made chicken salad out of chicken ****; he's taken a perennial playoff team, and gotten them to take the next step.
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Ok, but his starting center and franchise cornerstone played 29 games last season. Let's not act like Pero Antic, Kyle Korver or Mike Scott are defensive juggernauts ;)
 
Wouldn't it make sense to adopt a style of play that doesn't stress your franchise player by requiring him to sprint in both directions?
You can't be both the defensive anchor AND the offensive star running this style.

The Kings needed minor tweaking, not an overhaul. To blame the players for trying to adapt to a new offensive that eschews their strengths is asinine.
PDA said it himself - the players "suited" to this style of play are the guards.
 
Bricklayer said:
Offense is irrelevant for this franchise. Quit thinking offense. It makes for dumb basketball people. Everything that has gone wrong in Sacramento for the past 8+ years has been on the other end of the ball, while the basketball vidiots in charge worried about offense.

Our offense was sufficient. We scored enough points. Our big deficiency was in assists, but then again that's because the idiot rodent in charge has put together a roster 2/3 full of inferior passers/creaters, and then blamed the coaches for not making them into San Antonio.

P.S. oh and in answer to this poll? Let's start with PDA's head on a pike and work our way up.
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The biggest problem is our bench, on both ends of the floor. Giving up double digit leads was a product of BOTH poor defense and the inability of anyone on the second unit to get points. Running ISO plays for Rudy throughout the final 3 minutes of games is also a problem. Rudy has turned into an ineffective chucker when DMC is out or ineffective.

The solid defense of our starting 5 has put us in position to win a ton of games, but poor offense has cost is a huge chunk of them. Outside of DMC, the only other King who can create his own offense when the team is struggling is Omri, and that's a huge problem.

While defense wins championships, an offense that stutters and stalls can lose them.
 
voted for all except "big trade". That is just daring PDA to trade Cousins. If you won't hire Karl, then hire Jackson.
 
KingsFanGER said:
Sorry but Budenholzer established a unique and fluent offensive approach in less than a season, while also working on a swarming, very aggressive defense. From my point of view he is simply a superior coach than Malone.
But you have to take into account, that the Hawks FO and coach were on the same page and knew what they wanted.
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don't even know how you can accurately compare the two situations. one is given full support and are working as a team. the other isn't given the proper tools and the coach jent has to help malone pull all the knives from his back.
 
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What do I want? I want Peter D'Allesandro to come out and apologize to us fans and state that he made the knee jerk decision we all know he did and he didn't anticipate it being so overwhelmingly unpopular that almost the entire fan base now hates his guts. Yeah Peter, you need to apologize for setting this franchise back another couple of years. You need to apologize for firing a really good coach and pissing off the players. Most of all, you need to apologize for thinking us fans are stupid. That makes it be known that Peter is the stupid one, for underestimating the fans of the Sacramento Kings.
 
how about competent ownership/front office and stability on the coaching side? that would be a great start.
 
KingsFanGER said:
Well I agree. One can argue if Malone wasn't given enough time. And I wrote in a different thread, that I'm not supporting PDA on firing Malone. But if you want to pay attention to both sides, you have to take into account, that coaches like Budenholzer established a defense and an offense at the same time. And that's why we disagree on the point, that Malone will be a Top-10 coach.
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Take into account the rosters and it no comparison.

Question would you be doubting Malones place in the top 10 if say he never get fired and with him/DMC we beat Milwaukee/Brooklyn/Boston
Detroit/ Denver and gives us a 20-16 record in the west with the worst bench in basketball. Or if cousins never gets sick and you add
Detriot/Houston/LaL/orlando/ and Toronto withot derozan. That's a
25-11 record good for 4th in the west. Would that change you're mind? You could say I'm just bringing up what ifs but you add the way we were playing and those oppenets than you can come up with that record.
 
9-5 to start the season before Cuz went down....how did Malone accomplish this start against that tough schedule since he was so offensively challenged? I guess the players are really happy to be out from under the offensive challenged Malone because it shows on the court with their positive body language and incredible effort. They are freed now! I mean it shows with all the ball movement and the roster is all playing so much better now that Malone is gone.I'm so glad Coach Corbin has these guys playing at a high level. I can't wait to watch tonight's game.
 
KingsFanGER said:
Sorry but Budenholzer established a unique and fluent offensive approach in less than a season, while also working on a swarming, very aggressive defense. From my point of view he is simply a superior coach than Malone.
But you have to take into account, that the Hawks FO and coach were on the same page and knew what they wanted.
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In all fairness to both coaches involved, they came into very different situations. While not mind-blowingly good, the Hawks have been a playoff team (in the east, albeit) for the greater part of a decade and boast a roster of good defenders and solid high IQ players (Kyle Korver is also putting up ridiculous shooting numbers). Meanwhile, the Kings have stunk like a dead fish since the unceremonious dumping of Rick and hadn't played defense for a decade. Plus PDA kept shuffling the deck (Luc trade/Rudy trade/MT trade) before Malone could really gain any momentum installing a system.
 
Tetsujin said:
In all fairness to both coaches involved, they came into very different situations. While not mind-blowingly good, the Hawks have been a playoff team (in the east, albeit) for the greater part of a decade and boast a roster of good defenders and solid high IQ players (Kyle Korver is also putting up ridiculous shooting numbers). Meanwhile, the Kings have stunk like a dead fish since the unceremonious dumping of Rick and hadn't played defense for a decade. Plus PDA kept shuffling the deck (Luc trade/Rudy trade/MT trade) before Malone could really gain any momentum installing a system.
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I have taken the roster in comparison, but I don't think that it matters that much.
The difference between Atlanta and us is that Atlanta doesn't rely on ISO play at all. And thats also the reason, why in Atlantas system the players are interchangeable.I also don't buy the narrative of so called high IQ players. Basketball IQ can be taught by a competent coach. This term simply describes the ability to know where your teammates are and what they will do next and to react accordingly. And to achieve that, you don't need some kind of super smart hero type players, you need a coach who is able to teach offense to his players and make them work as one unit.
The Hawks were able to turn low IQ players like Bazemore, Scott or even Caroll into productive players on both ends.
When you look at the defensive end, the difference is even more obvious. While our second unit has trouble defending, the Hawks always play the same kind of very aggressive defense, no matter who steps on the floor. And they do that despite their undersized starting PF or despite Kyle Korver, who was known as a weak defender for years. Antic is not a rim protector, Scott is a subpar individual defender but they all buy in 110% and follow what their coach has taught them.
For me it's a weak argument, to say Malone couldn't establish a fluent offense or couldn't mitigate the defensive problems of our bench unit at all, just because of the players, the history of the franchise or the FO.
At some point Malone is accountable for something. He did a very good job to reach DMC and Gay and turned our starting-5 into a very good defensive squad. He deserves all the credit for this, but one can also mention the things he couldn't do without elusions.
That doesn't take away from Malone, who did a very solid job with the Kings.
 
randymoss1881 said:
Take into account the rosters and it no comparison.

Question would you be doubting Malones place in the top 10 if say he never get fired and with him/DMC we beat Milwaukee/Brooklyn/Boston
Detroit/ Denver and gives us a 20-16 record in the west with the worst bench in basketball. Or if cousins never gets sick and you add
Detriot/Houston/LaL/orlando/ and Toronto withot derozan. That's a
25-11 record good for 4th in the west. Would that change you're mind? You could say I'm just bringing up what ifs but you add the way we were playing and those oppenets than you can come up with that record.
Click to expand...

For me a top-10 coach is based on multiple seasons of work and not on say 30 games. So we will most likely never know, but yes i doubt that Malone would be a top-10 coach.
 
KingsFanGER said:
I have taken the roster in comparison, but I don't think that it matters that much.
The difference between Atlanta and us is that Atlanta doesn't rely on ISO play at all. And thats also the reason, why in Atlantas system the players are interchangeable.
Click to expand...
To the extent that this is true, it's still a little specious. The reason why Atlanta doesn't rely on isolation is because they don't have any elite iso players. If they had Cousins, or Kevin Durant, or Prime!Wade, or Harden, they'd be running a lot of iso, too, because a good coach is not going to take the ball out of his best player's hands, when that player needs the ball to be effective.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
To the extent that this is true, it's still a little specious. The reason why Atlanta doesn't rely on isolation is because they don't have any elite iso players. If they had Cousins, or Kevin Durant, or Prime!Wade, or Harden, they'd be running a lot of iso, too, because a good coach is not going to take the ball out of his best player's hands, when that player needs the ball to be effective.
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Well maybe we disagree on this one, but if you give your ISO players open looks and easy shots, they will be even more effective. ISO is never the best option. Most 1vs1 plays result into a more difficult shot, than scoring opportunities created out of quick ball movement. While DMC is a very effective ISO player he would score even more, if we manage to give him 4 to 5 dunks or layups per game.
ISO is always an option for lategame scenarios, when you need a basket and you dont trust your ballmovement too much. But throwing it to your best player and get out of the way, is not a very convincing strategy. Remember what Tony Allen did to Durant in the playoffs?
 
I would say that that says more about the mental toughness of Kevin Durant than it does about the merits of isolation plays.

I'm not the world's biggest fan of iso, in the abstract, but you also have to know your personnel. You can't just replace Horford with Cousins in Atlanta's system, and tell him to play like Horford, and expect it to work.
 
KingsFanGER said:
Well maybe we disagree on this one, but if you give your ISO players open looks and easy shots, they will be even more effective. ISO is never the best option. Most 1vs1 plays result into a more difficult shot, than scoring opportunities created out of quick ball movement. While DMC is a very effective ISO player he would score even more, if we manage to give him 4 to 5 dunks or layups per game.
ISO is always an option for lategame scenarios, when you need a basket and you dont trust your ballmovement too much. But throwing it to your best player and get out of the way, is not a very convincing strategy. Remember what Tony Allen did to Durant in the playoffs?
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Its actually quite a good strategy, presuming you have a great iso player. You can't overuse it, but when you have that player you are flat better than any Atlanta Hawks type team can ever be. You can focus your attack, get a position in foul trouble. Maximize your best players' touches. Run organized playsets and variations and know what is going to happen every time down the floor. Of course overusing it is when the opponent knows what is going to happen every time down the floor too. But knowing where your attack is going to come from is infinitely better than passing it around and hoping that something will open up, and then reacting to it. If you have that great iso player capable of making it work.

Hawks are cute and validating Pop's system, but in the end Pop's system sans multiple HOFers is not something I worry about when the playoffs roll around.
 
Bricklayer said:
Its actually quite a good strategy, presuming you have a great iso player. You can't overuse it, but when you have that player you are flat better than any Atlanta Hawks type team can ever be. You can focus your attack, get a position in foul trouble. Maximize your best players' touches. Run organized playsets and variations and know what is going to happen every time down the floor. Of course overusing it is when the opponent knows what is going to happen every time down the floor too. But knowing where your attack is going to come from is infinitely better than passing it around and hoping that something will open up, and then reacting to it. If you have that great iso player capable of making it work.

Hawks are cute and validating Pop's system, but in the end Pop's system sans multiple HOFers is not something I worry about when the playoffs roll around.
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Does it need to be all black and white? DMC proved that he is one of the best ISO players in the league. Add better ball movement and player movement to that and we have something really special.
Mavericks double teams gave DMC some trouble tonight. He turned it over way too much, cause he was forced into very difficult situations. Somehow we need to figure out, how to deal with that kind of strategy.
I know - Ben starting to knock down those 5 open threes, would be a start....:eek:

We will see how valid the Hawks are in the playoffs and if they are really that "cute". ;)
 
I want a vision I can trust in.

Build around a solid core of Rudy and Cousins and the discounted price of Collison.

To develop our youth while constructing it, like Ben and Nik mostly but even Ray.

I understand our contract clutter with Landry and Thompson as well. Add no long term salary unless it fits the "vision scheme" even if it makes us better in the short term.

I always figured it would take 2 years of development to pay dividends. But now I'm wondering where Pete and Vivek are taking us.

I'm not sure on a single answer to this poll, but I'd like a little hope back for now.
 
Build a team around Cousins in a way that makes sense.

It was evident even during the early wins that the team needed a third guard to come in and make shots. That needs to be addressed.

The team needs to solidify the PF spot. Jason Thompson's defense has been wonderful, but his offense has seriously fallen off. Landry can score, but is undersized and it costs the team at times.

There are both outside shooters and PF-types that will be available in FA.

But the main problem that exists is there is no clear plan for next year. It's obvious to everyone except maybe those making the decisions that the current state of the Kings does not work. Corbin is a lame duck coach. You aren't going to the playoffs with Corbin. However, there's a lot of bad teams out there, so you won't drop into the top lottery. You may not even drop into the bottom 10. That means no draft pick for next year. That outcome is a worst case scenario. It creates a wasted season around a top of the league guy playing amazing ball. However, if no move is made then I see that outcome as the most likely given the current status of the team.
 
I want our team to poo poo or get off the pot. Right now it seems like the Kings are just playing because they're scheduled for 82 games. The games don't matter. They're not building towards anything. They aren't forming an identity. Just a bunch of players who may or may not happen to win on a given night. When we have a coach and an organization with a system/gameplan that means we're building towards something. So I can take losses and I can take wins.

Right now a loss means we lost. Damn. A win means we get a lower lottery pick. Damn. A win doesn't mean we're playing more like a team. It doesn't mean we're figuring it out. It just means, we won tonight.

What I want is Breaking Bad. Where every episode builds to make me want to watch the next episode. Sure there will be episodes that aren't very good, but overall we know there's an end game that's very good.

What we had with Malone wasn't Breaking Bad I know, but more like the Jericho (for those that watched it). It was pretty slow. It was kind of boring. It wasn't the greatest show. But at least they were trying to build a plot. There was something there that lent itself to the previous episode and the overarching theme, and I tuned in because while it was super slow it felt like we might be on to something good. We might have had to down the road brought in a better writer to take it to the next level, but for now it was nice to watch. We don't really know how it would have ended because CBS was bored and wanted something new and hip.

You know what they replaced it with? KID NATION. I'll give you a brief summary:
“A reality-based series in which 40 kids will have 40 days to build a new world — in a ghost town that died in the 19th Century. These kids, ages 8-15, will spend more than a month without their parents or modern comforts in Bonanza City, N.M., attempting to do what their forefathers could not — build a town that works.”
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Did anybody really think Kid Nation was going to do anything? Nope. Was it going to last more than a season? Probably not. And sure, I could maybe turn it on for an episode and MAYBE for an episode that show might be pretty good. Maybe little Timmy might step on a rake and hit himself in the nuts or something. But you can only watch a kid hit himself in the nuts so often. It's not a winning formula. Nothing that happened in any given episode would lead me to believe that the show is going to be good. Or that there's any direction to the show. It's just episode by episode. It wasn't a show I could tell someone "Yeah it's slow now but I think it's just starting to get good."

And it all left you wondering... Why couldn't you just see where Jericho was going? Even if they didn't like the show that much themselves surely they couldn't possibly believe that Kid Nation was going to be a worthwhile product to put out there. What's the point in canceling it if you are just going to replace it with garbage? At least Jericho was a show fans could get behind.

And that's where we're at now in my opinon. Kid Nation. Sure I'll get a chuckle every now and then but it just leaves you with an empty feeling. Nothing to write home about. Just hoping every now and then you can see a kid take a shot to the beans for a cheap laugh.
Too long didn't read: I want Breaking Bad, we were Jericho, and now we're Kid Nation
 
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