What is Cousins' Value, Really?

[Padrino]

hahaha, well, let's see how many more bites you get, kingster, given just how silly this Yahoo! Fantasy Basketball experiment of yours really is...



for those of you in the Trade-DMC-or-Bust camp, here's a much more useful game to play: let's say you've got a fixer-upper that you want to sell. you do the market research, and determine that it has value, but in a limited market because of the state of the economy and the unique problems presented by this fixer-upper opportunity. so you call your realtor, and you're told that you're likely to snag about $100,000 for it. but you purchased the house for $120,000. the unit's problems are gonna set you back twenty grand. so you hatch a simple plan: pour twenty grand into it to make it right yourself, because you're patient and you won't take a loss when there is no urgency to do so. now your unique fixer-upper is a flashy as-is model. you call your realtor, who tells you to list it at $150,000. you've just sold high and turned a modest profit...

it's bare bones economics, and one needs only to accomplish some very minor research into the market conditions of the nba under the new cba to recognize faux urgency when one sees it. if the kings are desperate to trade demarcus immediately, they will not see any return on their investment in him thus far. it will be a net loss in value, guaranteed. but if they bring in a quality gm, an experienced head coach, and some veteran talent, and demarcus stabilizes next season due to a much more suitable environment for a player of his caliber, then you've just properly invested in your asset. if that investment is reflected in the stats and in demarcus' attitude, and you are still convinced that you need to move on from him, then you trade him because you'll be able to net something a little bit closer to "value" in return. i am still not convinced you will actually approach "total value," because recent nba history simply does not bear out such a scenario, particularly for small market franchises...

regardless, trading demarcus cousins this offseason out of some misguided sense of urgency is the kind of short-sighted move that cripples franchises for years. does anybody else remember the "flexible pieces" incident, and how long it took the kings to recover? chris webber had retired by the time the kings got out from under the weight of how atrociously short-sighted that deal was...

 

[Kingster]

as mac dutifully pointed out, you haven't bothered to respond to those who have already answered your question, myself included, so "meaningful discussion" does not appear to be this thread's end game. obfuscation is more likely the goal, because it's a stupid question. what is demarcus worth to other gm's? we don't know, and even if we did know, those gm's opinions of demarcus' worth will not be in line with their offers for him, because, in the hypothetical, they're dealing with a kings team who is selling low on a very talented player still earning his rookie contract...

once again, you've confused "value" with "outcome." given both his pending free agent status at the beginning of the '13-'14 season, and the status of cousins' growth to this point, competing gm's don't need to offer total value in return for demarcus in order to acquire him, so why would they? let's say mac's scenario involving toronto were to play out, and the kings received linas kleiza and landry fields in return for DMC and, i dunno, john salmons. that doesn't tell you a damn thing about what cousins is actually worth as a long term asset. it only tells you what a sucker the kings' gm is, and if it's, say, geoff petrie who pulls the trigger on such a trade, it shouldn't be surprising...

Ahh well, continue with your BS about outcome and value. Value is determined by the marketplace, Padrino. The market participants all come to their best evaluation of the what the "outcome" is going to be in the future by ascribing a present value to that asset today. The value of Cousins today is what the marketplace of teams is willing to provide. The marketplace of this board will determine the value. As you say, there may be a sucker who pays more than most would, just like there could be a sucker paying way over market for a home. But in looking at the specific bids you can get a sense of the most probably market value for Cousins on this board. And that's worth something. It's certainly worth more than your meaningless abstract pontifications about Cousins' long term value. If you're the GM of another team, Padrino, and you're convinced of Cousins worth as a long term asset, what are you going to pay? Let's hear some specifics rather than medieval notions of value and outcome.

 

[Padrino]

Ahh well, continue with your BS about outcome and value. Value is determined by the marketplace, Padrino. The market participants all come to their best evaluation of the what the "outcome" is going to be in the future by ascribing a present value to that asset today. The value of Cousins today is what the marketplace of teams is willing to provide. The marketplace of this board will determine the value. As you say, there may be a sucker who pays more than most would, just like there could be a sucker paying way over market for a home. But in looking at the specific bids you can get a sense of the most probably market value for Cousins on this board. And that's worth something. It's certainly worth more than your meaningless abstract pontifications about Cousins' long term value. If you're the GM of another team, Padrino, and you're convinced of Cousins worth as a long term asset, what are you going to pay? Let's hear some specifics rather than medieval notions of value and outcome.

medieval? what are you going on about? you seriously sound as if you just walked out of a psychiatric ward. or a drunk tank. i'm unsure of which. truthfully, i'm halfway tempted to believe that LWP777 uses "Kingster" as an alternative persona, it's gotten that bad with you...

my estimation of what the market place will yield is rooted in the logic of the ratified cba, as well as recent nba history. you, on the other hand, are attempting to coax kf.com into playing fantasy basketball. so... which is more abstract?!



geezus, i literally just outlined that, if one is intent on trading demarcus, but wants to get something resembling "value" in return for demarcus, one should wait until before next season's trade deadline, when the stabilizing of the franchise's circumstances can also aid in the stabilizing of demarcus, thus increasing his value on the block. that's not abstract. it's not fantasy basketball. that's just good business sense...

but here, i'll make it simple for you: quit playing games, quit obfuscating and tell us what you think cousins is worth. as i've stated on numerous occasions, i don't accept anything less than an established all-star in return for demarcus cousins. of course, the market won't currently bring that in return for cousins, because he has behavioral issues and he represents the potential of stardom, rather than a sure first-ballot all-star selection. so i preach patience for the long term good of the team: either commit to investing in your own talent so that it might grow itself into playoff contention, or commit to investing in your own talent so that you can sell it off high. what you simply don't do is both fail to invest in your own talent and then sell it off low, as you're suggesting. we call that bad business, for the record...

but the entire board already knows where i stand. you, on the other hand, are playing pariah and rain dancing with the hope that you just might find someone--other than the unfortunate few who already agree with your flimsy position--to corroborate this farcical display. in short, you're grasping at straws, friend. it'd be kinda sad if i didn't find it so amusing...

 

[rainmaker]

If Kingster keeps ignoring the numerous requests to post what he thinks is equal value for Cuz and participate in his own game, then can we lock this thread as it's already reached the dumbest thread of the year status.

 

[Kingster]

medieval? what are you going on about? you seriously sound as if you just walked out of a psychiatric ward. or a drunk tank. i'm unsure of which. truthfully, i'm halfway tempted to believe that LWP777 uses "Kingster" as an alternative persona, it's gotten that bad with you...

my estimation of what the market place will yield is rooted in the logic of the ratified cba, as well as recent nba history. you, on the other hand, are attempting to coax kf.com into playing fantasy basketball. so... which is more abstract?!



geezus, i literally just outlined that, if one is intent on trading demarcus, but wants to get something resembling "value" in return for demarcus, one should wait until before next season's trade deadline, when the stabilizing of the franchise's circumstances can also aid in the stabilizing of demarcus, thus increasing his value on the block. that's not abstract. it's not fantasy basketball. that's just good business sense...

but here, i'll make it simple for you: quit playing games, quit obfuscating and tell us what you think cousins is worth. as i've stated on numerous occasions, i don't accept anything less than an established all-star in return for demarcus cousins. of course, the market won't currently bring that in return for cousins, because he has behavioral issues and he represents the potential of stardom, rather than a sure first-ballot all-star selection. so i preach patience for the long term good of the team: either commit to investing in your own talent so that it might grow itself into playoff contention, or commit to investing in your own talent so that you can sell it off high. what you simply don't do is both fail to invest in your own talent and then sell it off low, as you're suggesting. we call that bad business, for the record...

but the entire board already knows where i stand. you, on the other hand, are playing pariah and rain dancing with the hope that you just might find someone--other than the unfortunate few who already agree with your flimsy position--to corroborate this farcical display. in short, you're grasping at straws, friend. it'd be kinda sad if i didn't find it so amusing...

Padrino, this is no fire sale. We can wait for the offseason. And I'm not in the least suggesting that we sell Cousins low. What I'm trying to get at here is what his value is. His value is determined by the market - i.e. the GMs around the league, and just like with selling a house, there's a marketing period. We'll say that period is through the end of the summer. And to have a gleaning of that market value I need you to be a market participant, one of many. Be specific. You're the GM for X team. Who is the All Star you'd be willing to give up for X team? It's not that tough. Chris Paul or as the GM of the Clippers? Wade or Bosh for the Heat? Who exactly? If you want, you can switch teams and come up with several All Stars that you'd be willing to give up in order to get Cousins for your team. There's a real disconnect in your position. It's like this:

You've been a GM here in Sacramento and have claimed to the Magoofs and other GMs around the league that Cousins is invaluable to your team, that he is untradable and is that he is part of the core. The team is sold. You are rehired as the GM for the Bobcats (or the Clipps, Toronto, etc). Your old team has Cousins on the market. MJ, your new boss, asks you, well what are you offering for Cousins? What do you think he's worth? What are you going to tell him: "Well it's is future worth that really counts; his value today is meaningless. That question is stupid." No, I don't think so. You'd be fired. So be specific. Tell me what you'd offer. Put the shoe on the other foot.


PS As far as I my opinion on the matter, I told you that in the first post I had on the subject: I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole as the GM of any team. Maybe after he goes to the CBA I'll sign him for a tryout.

 

[sdballer]

Why is anyone still responding to this pointless topic?

 

[Padrino]

Padrino, this is no fire sale. We can wait for the offseason. And I'm not in the least suggesting that we sell Cousins low. What I'm trying to get at here is what his value is. His value is determined by the market - i.e. the GMs around the league, and just like with selling a house, there's a marketing period. We'll say that period is through the end of the summer. And to have a gleaning of that market value I need you to be a market participant, one of many. Be specific. You're the GM for X team. Who is the All Star you'd be willing to give up for X team? It's not that tough. Chris Paul or as the GM of the Clippers? Wade or Bosh for the Heat? Who exactly? If you want, you can switch teams and come up with several All Stars that you'd be willing to give up in order to get Cousins for your team. There's a real disconnect in your position. It's like this:

You've been a GM here in Sacramento and have claimed to the Magoofs and other GMs around the league that Cousins is invaluable to your team, that he is untradable and is that he is part of the core. The team is sold. You are rehired as the GM for the Bobcats (or the Clipps, Toronto, etc). Your old team has Cousins on the market. MJ, your new boss, asks you, well what are you offering for Cousins? What do you think he's worth? What are you going to tell him: "Well it's is future worth that really counts; his value today is meaningless. That question is stupid." No, I don't think so. You'd be fired. So be specific. Tell me what you'd offer. Put the shoe on the other foot.


PS As far as I my opinion on the matter, I told you that in the first post I had on the subject: I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole as the GM of any team. Maybe after he goes to the CBA I'll sign him for a tryout.

Why is anyone still responding to this pointless topic?

indeed.

 

[Darth Divac]

Seconded.

 

[LWP777]

medieval? what are you going on about? you seriously sound as if you just walked out of a psychiatric ward. or a drunk tank. i'm unsure of which. truthfully, i'm halfway tempted to believe that LWP777 uses "Kingster" as an alternative persona, it's gotten that bad with you...

my estimation of what the market place will yield is rooted in the logic of the ratified cba, as well as recent nba history. you, on the other hand, are attempting to coax kf.com into playing fantasy basketball. so... which is more abstract?!



geezus, i literally just outlined that, if one is intent on trading demarcus, but wants to get something resembling "value" in return for demarcus, one should wait until before next season's trade deadline, when the stabilizing of the franchise's circumstances can also aid in the stabilizing of demarcus, thus increasing his value on the block. that's not abstract. it's not fantasy basketball. that's just good business sense...

but here, i'll make it simple for you: quit playing games, quit obfuscating and tell us what you think cousins is worth. as i've stated on numerous occasions, i don't accept anything less than an established all-star in return for demarcus cousins. of course, the market won't currently bring that in return for cousins, because he has behavioral issues and he represents the potential of stardom, rather than a sure first-ballot all-star selection. so i preach patience for the long term good of the team: either commit to investing in your own talent so that it might grow itself into playoff contention, or commit to investing in your own talent so that you can sell it off high. what you simply don't do is both fail to invest in your own talent and then sell it off low, as you're suggesting. we call that bad business, for the record...

but the entire board already knows where i stand. you, on the other hand, are playing pariah and rain dancing with the hope that you just might find someone--other than the unfortunate few who already agree with your flimsy position--to corroborate this farcical display. in short, you're grasping at straws, friend. it'd be kinda sad if i didn't find it so amusing...

Do me a favor pal and keep me out of it. And stop acting like an arrogant SOB with everybody around here.

 

[VF21]

Do me a favor pal and keep me out of it. And stop acting like an arrogant SOB with everybody around here.

So it's okay for you to call him names but you cry foul when he references you in a post? Nice double standard you've got going there.

I'm closing this stupid thread.