What has to happen to move forward next year

[twslam07]

Why are you being so insistent on a reply? I have said it is for the FO's to decide. Do you think the Kings do not have a package they can offer to get Herb Jones? You and me talking about it here could be pointless, especially if you believe the Kings do not.

Well it’s a forum to discuss our opinions and ideas. If we all said “it’s up to the FO” there wouldn’t be much to discuss.

It sounds like you have a preferred end result so I was simply asking you how you would intend on getting there?

 

[Dongoodboy]

Playoff is all about star power. You got Jokic doing everything and still got beaten by Booker and KD. All the Denver depth simply doesn't help. MPJ and Murray are good but not good enough.

Monte will probably run it back with this team and do some minor move. I am fine with that but I hope to see a big swing trade if the right opportunity appears.

 

[sactowndog]

Good points. It's why I want both, Herb and Cam, because I feel their strengths cover the other's weakness. Cam's three point shooting makes up for Herb, and Herb's defense makes up for Cam. Although, I feel like I must add that Cam is reasonably solid in a team's defensive scheme and is not a negative... but he may be weak on rebounding.

Cam is a lot like Murray IMO, and I think it would be good to provide Fox and Sabonis with two forwards who can shoot and move off the ball like I think Cam + Murray will do, leaving Herb to fill the gaps where he sees them.


That is true. I think the roster will have a lot of offensive options with Fox, Huerter, Monk, Murray, Cam and Sabonis... so they may not have have to share too much time together.

What do you think of these?

- Fox, Herb, Murray, Cam, Sabonis
- Fox, Huerter/Monk, Herb, Cam/Murray, Sabonis
- Davion, Huerter/Monk, Murray, Cam, Sabonis

Herb is not a free agent and doubt Pels are trading him.

 

[miltonap]

Why would the Pelicans trade Herb Jones?

Doesn't really make sense to me.

They have 2-3 stars, McCollum Ingram and possibly Zion, I think you need players like Herb to round out the roster and shore up any defensive deficiencies they may have

Don't see why they would get rid of him, and even if they were to blow it up at any point, I still don't see why they would get rid of him being that he is young

Herb was the pick right before Queta, why not just draft another Herb Jones, doesn't seem too difficult

 

[Kingz19]

I deleted all the Jonathan Isaac stuff related to his political/religious views. You don't get to use them as a proxy to bring that sort of argument here.

I don’t mind that you don’t want the discussion here. You could’ve atleast kept the three or four paragraphs I typed solely about his fit on the Kings and just edited out the few lines at the end.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I don’t mind that you don’t want the discussion here. You could’ve at least kept the three or four paragraphs I typed solely about his fit on the Kings and just edited out the few lines at the end.

Sorry. It was late and I was just trying to clean it all up. I've restored your post with the lines at the end removed.

 

[Jones2006]

I still think John Collins fits this team, not sure he salary could match though. Sure it’s not the “perfect fit” but nobody is that covers the shooting / rebounding / defense boxes. At the very least he is:

- great rebounder, even next to Capela he got solid board numbers. Huge athleticism edge vs Barnes
- average defense, worse perimeter defender than Barnes but interior is a bit better. Good shot blocker for size.
- shooting: career numbers solid, have to hope last season is a fluke.
- also excels in pick and roll play which would work great off bench in staggered minutes with Malik Monk. Small ball center w/ Lyles next to him would be a killer offensive lineup.

sign & trade Barnes and filler for him maybe?

 

[TaxMan]

I still think John Collins fits this team, not sure he salary could match though. Sure it’s not the “perfect fit” but nobody is that covers the shooting / rebounding / defense boxes. At the very least he is:

- great rebounder, even next to Capela he got solid board numbers. Huge athleticism edge vs Barnes
- average defense, worse perimeter defender than Barnes but interior is a bit better. Good shot blocker for size.
- shooting: career numbers solid, have to hope last season is a fluke.
- also excels in pick and roll play which would work great off bench in staggered minutes with Malik Monk. Small ball center w/ Lyles next to him would be a killer offensive lineup.

sign & trade Barnes and filler for him maybe?

I’m not sure what it would take to get him but I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if he was a king next year. If his shooting wasn’t just a fluke last year I’d be concerned (can he get surgery on that finger still?) if not I think he could be a great addition, although a bit overpaid. Probably the high end for a potential trade over the summer.

 

[The_Jamal]

I still think John Collins fits this team, not sure he salary could match though. Sure it’s not the “perfect fit” but nobody is that covers the shooting / rebounding / defense boxes. At the very least he is:

- great rebounder, even next to Capela he got solid board numbers. Huge athleticism edge vs Barnes
- average defense, worse perimeter defender than Barnes but interior is a bit better. Good shot blocker for size.
- shooting: career numbers solid, have to hope last season is a fluke.
- also excels in pick and roll play which would work great off bench in staggered minutes with Malik Monk. Small ball center w/ Lyles next to him would be a killer offensive lineup.

sign & trade Barnes and filler for him maybe?

Big issue I have with Collins is we have a concerning trend where he's gotten worse the past 2 seasons. Now, that could be explained by ATL basically desperately trying to trade him 24/7, but still something to monitor nonetheless.

You'd have to consider it if it was just a HB S&T, but I'm certainly not giving any extra assets on top of it. He still has 3 years left at around 25 mil/season... that would essentially be your big splash. Give me Naz or any of the RFA guys (Williams/Johnson/Washington) over him at this point.

 

[Stan.Helsing]

Why would the Pelicans trade Herb Jones?

Doesn't really make sense to me.

They have 2-3 stars, McCollum Ingram and possibly Zion, I think you need players like Herb to round out the roster and shore up any defensive deficiencies they may have

Don't see why they would get rid of him, and even if they were to blow it up at any point, I still don't see why they would get rid of him being that he is young

Herb was the pick right before Queta, why not just draft another Herb Jones, doesn't seem too difficult

For sure, the Pelicans would obviously keep him. The player option (PO) they have on him is less than $2M, that is insane value for a contract. My take is... IF the Kings FO feel that Herb would be an ideal addition to the roster (as I do), they have 2 possible routes to getting him:

1) Offer the Pelicans something they can't say no to. Don't ask me what that is though, as I'm not the Pels FO. I will say that I would like to keep Fox, Davion, Huerter, Murray and Sabonis. Anyone else and any picks available can be used, within reason.

2) Tap Herb up, get him to act up and ask out. He has given the Pels 2 good years for so little money. He will have to give them 1 more year as the lowest paid player on their roster, if they exercise the option. Which player would be happy about that? Especially when that player is sacrificing so much while their star (Zion) has eaten them out of two seasons in a row? Anything can happen to Herb in the next year with the defense role he plays and how hard he plays defense too. Example: Jonathan Isaac, except Isaac got paid before getting injured. I'd probably offer Herb the full Non-Taxpayer MLE, if he can get the Pels to not exercise the PO. The deadline for the Pels to exercise their PO is 6/29/2023.

Also, I'm not saying it's Herb or bust. This is simply something I would like to see the Kings FO explore. It is a long shot, sure, but stranger things have happened in the NBA.

 

[kingwin]

For sure, the Pelicans would obviously keep him. The player option (PO) they have on him is less than $2M, that is insane value for a contract. My take is... IF the Kings FO feel that Herb would be an ideal addition to the roster (as I do), they have 2 possible routes to getting him:

1) Offer the Pelicans something they can't say no to. Don't ask me what that is though, as I'm not the Pels FO. I will say that I would like to keep Fox, Davion, Huerter, Murray and Sabonis. Anyone else and any picks available can be used, within reason.

2) Tap Herb up, get him to act up and ask out. He has given the Pels 2 good years for so little money. He will have to give them 1 more year as the lowest paid player on their roster, if they exercise the option. Which player would be happy about that? Especially when that player is sacrificing so much while their star (Zion) has eaten them out of two seasons in a row? Anything can happen to Herb in the next year with the defense role he plays and how hard he plays defense too. Example: Jonathan Isaac, except Isaac got paid before getting injured. I'd probably offer Herb the full Non-Taxpayer MLE, if he can get the Pels to not exercise the PO. The deadline for the Pels to exercise their PO is 6/29/2023.

Also, I'm not saying it's Herb or bust. This is simply something I would like to see the Kings FO explore. It is a long shot, sure, but stranger things have happened in the NBA.

?

 

[Stan.Helsing]

?

??

 

[ockingsfan]

Watching the playoffs, it’s apparent the Kings need to get bigger, longer and tougher to advance in the playoffs next year and beyond.

The current Kings team is great for the regular season, but they aren’t built to win in the playoffs. The game slows down and gets much more physical and smaller teams get pushed around in the playoffs. I think the Kings would have been bully balled by the Lakers had they advanced.

We need to add 2 or 3 players for defense, size and length this off season. Give me Naz Reid, promote Queta and get a big body in the draft. The Kings will need to sacrifice some offense for defense this summer if they want to advance deep in the playoffs.

 

[dude12]

Watching the playoffs, it’s apparent the Kings need to get bigger, longer and tougher to advance in the playoffs next year and beyond.

The current Kings team is great for the regular season, but they aren’t built to win in the playoffs. The game slows down and gets much more physical and smaller teams get pushed around in the playoffs. I think the Kings would have been bully balled by the Lakers had they advanced.

We need to add 2 or 3 players for defense, size and length this off season. Give me Naz Reid, promote Queta and get a big body in the draft. The Kings will need to sacrifice some offense for defense this summer if they want to advance deep in the playoffs.

I think GS got the benefit of the ref whistle all series long.
Now, it’s obvious that the Lakers get to do what they want and GS is screwed.
That’s the NBA in a nutshell. I actually think Sac is built for the playoffs but if the other team gets treated favorable by the refs, it’s tough to overcome…..and we almost did.

I do agree that we need more length though. There is no doubt about it.

 

[Stan.Helsing]

I think GS got the benefit of the ref whistle all series long.

Agreed! I think Stephen A Smith and JJ Reddick started a false campaign thru ESPN after Draymond got suspended, by saying it was the referees who were deciding the series and who were responsible for the Kings being 2-0 up. Did anyone else see that? Then everything changed to GSW's favor.

The team was a no-show in that critical Game 3 though. They should have come out guns blazing with Draymond suspended. If they had gone 3-0 up, I don't think GSW would have come back.

 

[kingwin]

??

I don't get your 2nd point. The Kings should collude with Herb Jones to ask for a trade to the Kings?

 

[hrdboild]

Watching the playoffs, it’s apparent the Kings need to get bigger, longer and tougher to advance in the playoffs next year and beyond.

The current Kings team is great for the regular season, but they aren’t built to win in the playoffs. The game slows down and gets much more physical and smaller teams get pushed around in the playoffs. I think the Kings would have been bully balled by the Lakers had they advanced.

We need to add 2 or 3 players for defense, size and length this off season. Give me Naz Reid, promote Queta and get a big body in the draft. The Kings will need to sacrifice some offense for defense this summer if they want to advance deep in the playoffs.

I think we would have had an easier time with the Lakers in some ways. Their offense is a lot more one-dimensional and they don't have very good defenders at the guard positions. That's all speculation though. Lebron has always been a very smart player -- he would have realized they had an advantage on the inside and pressed it as much as possible to get Domas out of the game and force us into a more iso-heavy strategy.

I suppose the biggest takeaway from this year's playoffs for me has been that you need to build your roster so that you have multiple options on offense and defense depending on the circumstances and then spend the regular season honing your strategies and rotations so that everyone knows exactly how to execute under pressure. We didn't have a solid Plan B this year for Domas getting outworked on the glass or Fox breaking his finger and losing his handle. I'd also like to see Queta brought into the regular rotation. Developing Keegan into a solid #2 scoring option will help to take pressure off of Fox to create all the offense in crunch time. And then we just need to add some defensive specialists who can fight through screens and contest jumpshooters without fouling.

 

[NiNetNiNe]

I think we would have had an easier time with the Lakers in some ways. Their offense is a lot more one-dimensional and they don't have very good defenders at the guard positions. That's all speculation though. Lebron has always been a very smart player -- he would have realized they had an advantage on the inside and pressed it as much as possible to get Domas out of the game and force us into a more iso-heavy strategy.

I suppose the biggest takeaway from this year's playoffs for me has been that you need to build your roster so that you have multiple options on offense and defense depending on the circumstances and then spend the regular season honing your strategies and rotations so that everyone knows exactly how to execute under pressure. We didn't have a solid Plan B this year for Domas getting outworked on the glass or Fox breaking his finger and losing his handle. I'd also like to see Queta brought into the regular rotation. Developing Keegan into a solid #2 scoring option will help to take pressure off of Fox to create all the offense in crunch time. And then we just need to add some defensive specialists who can fight through screens and contest jumpshooters without fouling.

if we can get someone like Garuba, he would be the perfect fit next to Sabonis. A bigger version of Draymond. He is a playmaker, is starting to show a little bit of range, and is very nimble for someone his size.

I know people are down on him, but Woods would also be a good fit. His game is already suited for the PF, he’s quick enough to defend the position, and for any speed he lacks he has like a 7’3” wingspan too. He’s efficient at scoring, he has even shown to have pretty good court vision with his passes, but can be a black hole when he receives the ball on the block. His defense is not great, but with Brown, who knows, he could turn it around like Wiggins did under brown.

 

[Kingster]

So what I can from all this Sabonis discussion is that he needs to take an intensity pill for the playoffs next year so the Kings can win the rebounding battle and win a playoff series. Apparently he doesn't have the will-power for the position. Really, if that's the case, what's your solution? Give him a pep talk? Not resign him? Resign him and then trade him? Kick him to the curb? How soon they forget: HE WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN THE KINGS GOING TO THE PLAYOFFS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 16 FREAKING YEARS! He was the ROCK of this team. Without him we would be now talking about a losing season, a Fox beyond demoralization who would probably have checked out after game 10 and the rumblings of his demanding a trade would be deafening. We would be enduring the 17th season without a playoff berth and all you would have to do to get a laugh as an NBA analyst would be to mention one word - Kings. Guaranteed: Brown would not be mentioned as Coach of the Year, except if it were mentioned as a joke. I'm shaking my head on this whole discussion - absolutely ridiculous.

 

[serbiangoat]

They just need someone who can play better than Barnes/Huerter in the playoffs. The Kings win 4-1 and 4-2 at worst if either of those guys shows up. The Kings are built for offense, giving up offensive boards was not the issue it was missing too many open shots by our upper end role players.

If the Celtics collapse in the 2nd round I would try trade Huerter or sign and trade Barnes (Jalen Brown insurance?) for Brogdan (has been off in the Philly series), he can really help Fox chill during the regular season and defend at a level similar to Mitchell when locked in. Having Brogdan as the starting SG or 6th man and moving Monk into the starting line up would be very dynamic. A backcourt of Fox/Monk/Brogdan is great cause any combo on the floor works. Unlike Huerter, Brogdan can guard stronger quicker players.

Brogdan also has a excellent understanding of playing pick n roll with Sabonis while the team did not play great those two did in Indiana.

 

[Caccia]

I will leave the speculation to those interested in it. Instead, here is a list of the current players who should be the nucleus in the future, most of whom are already under contract for next year. In other words, these will likely be the team's best players next year (listed by position):

Sabonis
Murray
Lyles
Edwards
Monk
Fox

I would add Mitchell to this group, given that he and Edwards bring an unrivalled intensity and skill to team defense.

Of those seven players, only Lyles and Edwards are free agents, but the Kings have a team option on Kessler.

 

[SacTownKid]

They just need someone who can play better than Barnes/Huerter in the playoffs. The Kings win 4-1 and 4-2 at worst if either of those guys shows up. The Kings are built for offense, giving up offensive boards was not the issue it was missing too many open shots by our upper end role players.

If the Celtics collapse in the 2nd round I would try trade Huerter or sign and trade Barnes (Jalen Brown insurance?) for Brogdan (has been off in the Philly series), he can really help Fox chill during the regular season and defend at a level similar to Mitchell when locked in. Having Brogdan as the starting SG or 6th man and moving Monk into the starting line up would be very dynamic. A backcourt of Fox/Monk/Brogdan is great cause any combo on the floor works. Unlike Huerter, Brogdan can guard stronger quicker players.

Brogdan also has a excellent understanding of playing pick n roll with Sabonis while the team did not play great those two did in Indiana.

Huerter would be a tough trade candidate because of how reliant the team was on him being the only other reliable pick and roll initiator in that starting unit that can also play off of Domas. The real question is why those players missed shots. I pointed it out in real time, you could see the age old and tested truth that playoff basketball is a different beast and system based teams have to sometimes adjust to being able to run plan B options when the system goes poof. The team eventually changed the way one would expect, it became far more reliant on a player that oozes playoff style ball and that was De'Aaron Fox. And also Monk. It's pretty easy to figure out why and it's because in a G skill oriented league pick and roll is the code. And even with Barnes as well even though Barnes struggled later in the series even looking for shots, early on he was a huge reason the Kings won the games they did. When the others behind him stepped up and Barnes faded in the offense it was pretty much zipped on a 4 of 5 slide. The only players that were a threat to get to the line come playoff time were Fox, Domas, Monk (who led the team), and Barnes. Everybody else on the team was almost nonexistent. That means you had exactly 4 players capable of drawing contact and two of which (Domas and Barnes) that just don't have that "I'm going to stick it up the other teams backside" mentality. They're more the types that will turn down a bad shot. Stars make bad shots.

 

[SacTownKid]

Big issue I have with Collins is we have a concerning trend where he's gotten worse the past 2 seasons. Now, that could be explained by ATL basically desperately trying to trade him 24/7, but still something to monitor nonetheless.

You'd have to consider it if it was just a HB S&T, but I'm certainly not giving any extra assets on top of it. He still has 3 years left at around 25 mil/season... that would essentially be your big splash. Give me Naz or any of the RFA guys (Williams/Johnson/Washington) over him at this point.

You know, the Kings might have another inside shot with Collins though. I wonder if removing protections from that pick could nab Collins for cap relief? That pick will most likely convey but maybe the Hawks would take the gamble of changing that pick from lottery protected to top 8-10 or something?

 

[The_Jamal]

You know, the Kings might have another inside shot with Collins though. I wonder if removing protections from that pick could nab Collins for cap relief? That pick will most likely convey but maybe the Hawks would take the gamble of changing that pick from lottery protected to top 8-10 or something?

But the issue is are we good with Collins being the last splash with this core? I loved him 2 years ago, but he's already had a 2 tear downtrend of playing worse and he's supposed to be just entering his prime.

I think I'd rather go see if there's meat on the bone with some of the FA options this year than commit to Collins. We basically know at this point who he is; very unlikely he's anything more than a decent starter

 

[SacTownKid]

But the issue is are we good with Collins being the last splash with this core? I loved him 2 years ago, but he's already had a 2 tear downtrend of playing worse and he's supposed to be just entering his prime.

I think I'd rather go see if there's meat on the bone with some of the FA options this year than commit to Collins. We basically know at this point who he is; very unlikely he's anything more than a decent starter

Guarntee matters and if the Kings want to make a move, someone on the low side is a decent buy option. I think he'd fit. Adding some lob options to the PF spot isn't a bad thing and certainly a new dynamic. If it's cheap asset wise I think the payoff could be pretty good. He and Fox in pick and roll might be worth it.

 

[ppine]

The harsh reality is that the playoffs are rougher and more physical than the regular season. The Kings are a finesse team. They were bothered by the physical style of Looney and Green especially. It has a lot to do with the Kings' disrupted offense in the playoffs. It is an area the whole team needs to work on.

 

[iowamcnabb]

Guarntee matters and if the Kings want to make a move, someone on the low side is a decent buy option. I think he'd fit. Adding some lob options to the PF spot isn't a bad thing and certainly a new dynamic. If it's cheap asset wise I think the payoff could be pretty good. He and Fox in pick and roll might be worth it.

I actually think Collins is going to return to form and it won’t surprise me if he thrives outside of Hotlanta. Analytics buy his improved defense and his shot looked better at season end. The downside is we would likely not be able to bring Sasha over unless he signs for the room.

 

[Warhawk]

The harsh reality is that the playoffs are rougher and more physical than the regular season. The Kings are a finesse team. They were bothered by the physical style of Looney and Green especially. It has a lot to do with the Kings' disrupted offense in the playoffs. It is an area the whole team needs to work on.

I don't know that they were bothered by the physicality as much as they were injured and the refs let GS get away with a lot. We were tied through 6 games and had the lead at the half in game 7. We were in this until the last 1.5 quarters, but our two ailing stars couldn't quite get us to the finish line when we needed them to be at 100%. Sabonis got stomped and took a nasty elbow to the eye (while playing with a broken hand all year) and Fox got his finger broken during the series. Experience, health, tweaks to the gameplan (easier now that we have a year of Brown and saw some playoff limitations), and likely some personnel changes will help.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

I think GS got the benefit of the ref whistle all series long.
Now, it’s obvious that the Lakers get to do what they want and GS is screwed.
That’s the NBA in a nutshell. I actually think Sac is built for the playoffs but if the other team gets treated favorable by the refs, it’s tough to overcome…..and we almost did.

I do agree that we need more length though. There is no doubt about it.

NBA officiating is never consistent. If you need to rely on that then you aren't built for the playoffs. Also, we didn't lose to GS because of the refs. We lost to them because Huerter and Barnes sucked, we couldn't stop Looney on the boards, GS took away the passing lines for Sabonis, and questionable adjustments by Mike Brown in game 7.

 

[funkykingston]

The harsh reality is that the playoffs are rougher and more physical than the regular season. The Kings are a finesse team. They were bothered by the physical style of Looney and Green especially. It has a lot to do with the Kings' disrupted offense in the playoffs. It is an area the whole team needs to work on.

Really?

Because it sure seemed like early on in the series the narrative was that the Kings were the team that was being allowed to play too physical. They also averaged more rebounds in the playoffs than any other team and were third in FTAs behind just the Clippers and Knicks which means they attacked the basket.

The biggest reasons the Kings offense took a dip were that (1) the Warriors focused on disrupting the DHO and the Kings were slow to counter that (2) their overall shooting took a big dive and (3) Fox broke his finger while Domas was dealing with chest contusions and assorted other bumps and bruises along with his avulsion fracture on his off hand.

The Kings can definitely improve, but they didn't lose in the playoffs because they were too finesse.