What has to happen to move forward next year
- Thread starter sactowndog
- Start date
This is nonsense / Copium. Is that what you see when you watch these highlights?
Here's all 21 rebounds from Looney in game 7, name me a single one that Sabonis grabs if he's got two healthy hands.
What I see, clear as day, is Sabonis often has superior position and Looney is able to out high-point him to the ball.. Look at how many times Sabonis is infront of Looney and Looney grabs a board over his head... There's like 10 occasions.. Thats not a matter of hurt hands.. Sabonis isnt even leaving the floor on most of those in question, Looney's just out hustling and anticipating the bounces better. I see Looney snatching boards while Sabonis was hoping to tip them.
The hurt hand thing is such a cop out excuse if I ever did hear one, thats not what the footage shows... Sabonis said they won the battle of the 50/50 balls too, thats another cop out excuse, he got trounced on the boards is a more accurate description.
ITS ABSOLUTELY INFURIATING... JUST ISOLATE THE 3rd Q in those highlights you'll see Sabonis INFRONT of Looney and losing the board OVER AND OVER AND OVER....
Theres just no way... He got abused by Looney... I guess some cant admit that around here.. The footage is SO conclusive tho.. Thats on our homefloor, our C is getting boards snatched over the top of his head ad nauseam.
I want it addressed so it doesnt happen again next year..The idea we wait 20 years to make the playoffs to then not address what knocked us out, is preposterous to me. The Kings lie about Sabonis' height, he's not 7'1... He measured 6'10 in shoes with a 6'10.5" wingspan in 2015, if you think he's grown 3" since then I've got a bridge in brooklyn for sale, you can charge people to cross it, dm me for details.
Here's all 21 rebounds from Looney in game 7, name me a single one that Sabonis grabs if he's got two healthy hands.
What I see, clear as day, is Sabonis often has superior position and Looney is able to out high-point him to the ball.. Look at how many times Sabonis is infront of Looney and Looney grabs a board over his head... There's like 10 occasions.. Thats not a matter of hurt hands.. Sabonis isnt even leaving the floor on most of those in question, Looney's just out hustling and anticipating the bounces better. I see Looney snatching boards while Sabonis was hoping to tip them.
The hurt hand thing is such a cop out excuse if I ever did hear one, thats not what the footage shows... Sabonis said they won the battle of the 50/50 balls too, thats another cop out excuse, he got trounced on the boards is a more accurate description.
ITS ABSOLUTELY INFURIATING... JUST ISOLATE THE 3rd Q in those highlights you'll see Sabonis INFRONT of Looney and losing the board OVER AND OVER AND OVER....
Theres just no way... He got abused by Looney... I guess some cant admit that around here.. The footage is SO conclusive tho.. Thats on our homefloor, our C is getting boards snatched over the top of his head ad nauseam.
I want it addressed so it doesnt happen again next year..The idea we wait 20 years to make the playoffs to then not address what knocked us out, is preposterous to me. The Kings lie about Sabonis' height, he's not 7'1... He measured 6'10 in shoes with a 6'10.5" wingspan in 2015, if you think he's grown 3" since then I've got a bridge in brooklyn for sale, you can charge people to cross it, dm me for details.
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Sabonis was blatantly outplayed by Looney to anyone who isn't a Kings fan. I think it's just hard to admit for fans. He's been playing with his broken hand for months.... all of a sudden the last 7 games, his hand suddenly affected him more? No. The Warriors game planed for Sabonis and took him out of the game. Looney also dominated him. That's all there is to it.
The most obvious example of a poor box out starts at 2:46 in that video. Sabonis just spins around in front of Looney, without backing his rear end into him. This allows Kevon a free jump to the ball without any contact to neutralize his reach for the ball. A lack of willingness or lack of knowledge to execute a physical box out is costly at all levels of basketball....and it really showed up in this series
I think a lot of those lost rebounds was due to Sabonis and the rest of the Kings not matching the intensity of the playoffs.
After all, Sabonis was the rebounding king in the regular season and it wasn't by accident. However, rebounds that teams didn't fight for in the regular season all of the sudden became "do or die" rebounds in the playoffs and Looney and the GSW fought for every one, the Kings didn't.
I hope this is a very painful learning experience for Sabonis and rest of the young Kings and coaching staff. What worked in the regular season is not going to necessarily work in the playoffs. The intensity of everything is ratcheted up 10X in the playoffs. Every loose ball needs to be chased down and secured with all your effort, standing around and waiting for the rebound to come to you isn't going to work. Hopefully this lost series hurts bad during the off season and we learn for next year and beyond.
After all, Sabonis was the rebounding king in the regular season and it wasn't by accident. However, rebounds that teams didn't fight for in the regular season all of the sudden became "do or die" rebounds in the playoffs and Looney and the GSW fought for every one, the Kings didn't.
I hope this is a very painful learning experience for Sabonis and rest of the young Kings and coaching staff. What worked in the regular season is not going to necessarily work in the playoffs. The intensity of everything is ratcheted up 10X in the playoffs. Every loose ball needs to be chased down and secured with all your effort, standing around and waiting for the rebound to come to you isn't going to work. Hopefully this lost series hurts bad during the off season and we learn for next year and beyond.
Eh, Monte was kind of just putting that out there I think. He basically said this team has a bunch of players that can play various positions. I know there was push back when I brought his name up at the deadline at one point but what about Vucevic? Defensive sieve? Yes. But imagine the skill in the frontcourt with he and Domas. You could also stagger them. I was much more into the idea of Vucevic because he was expiring but still an option perhaps.
Would guess the amount of physical play allowed took a toll and you don't have to leap off a bridge to get there after everything else that happened to him in the series.
I'm happy for Warriors fans and apparently Coach Kerr who can write off anything goes if you win. I'll never respect them after the stomp.
I'm happy for Warriors fans and apparently Coach Kerr who can write off anything goes if you win. I'll never respect them after the stomp.
Yes and bad positioning defensively. DO NOT let they playoffs confuse anyone, rebounds are not going to be the thing keeping this franchise from a ring and I hope Monte isn't prioritizing that this offseason. That should be prioritized when it becomes a serious issue, right now it's not. Look, the team the Kings are most like are the Nash Suns and they had to choose themselves at one point. Defense or rebounding positioning? This is the issue with an all offense team.
I agree with all of this but are we really listing him at 7'1? I have not heard or seen that anywhere. He looks like he's barely 6'10 and he doesn't have particularly long arms.
I mean, Domas is still a great rebounder, so I'm not piling on him. But there's no doubt Looney abused him on the boards in this series. We could do with anither big who can go toe to toe with the Looney's, ADs, Embiids etc on the boards.
Still, we make a few more shots, and we're likely advancing. Enter Vezenkov...
I mean, Domas is still a great rebounder, so I'm not piling on him. But there's no doubt Looney abused him on the boards in this series. We could do with anither big who can go toe to toe with the Looney's, ADs, Embiids etc on the boards.
Still, we make a few more shots, and we're likely advancing. Enter Vezenkov...
The only thing is that with Fox, Domas, and Vuc, almost all your offense could come from the half court if need be and from the basket out OR outside to the basket. That could be a bit of a cheat code if used right. However, yes, you are 100% correct, on the surface deficiencies other than another player that can score effectively are a no go. I still think though if Brown had 3 offensive anchors he would be much more able to change up his lineups based on need which he has already done.
Here's where I think a lot of people go off track -- this series was as close to 50-50 as it gets. The Kings and Warriors were evenly matched in the regular season and evenly matched in the playoffs. By the time they got to Game 7 each team had won a blowout game, each team had won a road game, and each team had a chance for a knockout blow (Kings in Game 3 or 4, Warriors in Game 6) and blown it. I think if we replay Game 7 a hundred times the Kings win half of them and the Warriors win the other half.
Now that we know the result you can work backwards and find all the things the Kings did wrong in that one game but the reality of what happened in Game 7 is that a lot of Kings shots went halfway down and out, a lot of loose balls bounced right to the Warriors. Random chance decided this game more than anything the Kings did. If half of those close misses fall it's a different game. If the ball doesn't constantly bounce to the Warriors in the third quarter it's a different game. If Curry misses 3 or 4 more jumpers it's a different game. Should we alter our entire off-season approach based on random chance?
There's a lot of talk about rebounding technique but again I think most of these takes are confusing results with process. Here's how I think of rebounding: divide up the space under the basket into 3 pie slices (1) right baseline (2) middle (3) left baseline. If you put a body in each slice and the opponent does not, you win the rebound. If you and an opponent both share a slice the goal is to get enough leverage to ensure that you secure the ball if it bounces to your area. It's still a game of probabilities. Stronger players have an advantage because it's harder to get leverage on them but even if you do everything right, you can't be in three places at the same time. The solution is to send more bodies or do a better job of denying your opponent leverage.
Here's what I see in the rebounding footage:
(Reb 1-5 0:00 - 0:40) The Kings offense is so perimeter oriented that they don't bother to send anyone under the basket to fight for an offensive rebound, they just concede their own misses to GS. Keegan is the only one who makes a move toward the basket and he does get the tip-out on the last play here. Looney then gets the long carom because he'd just taken himself out of rebounding position on Monk's jumper.
(Reb 6 0:41 - 0:58) Klay uses a Looney screen to get by Kevin Huerter. The Kings do not switch but Domas is ready for the drive and slides easily under the basket to make a good contest taking both him and Thompson out of rebounding position. Huerter is trailing the play but makes no effort to box Looney out. Even without boxing out, Huerter is still in position to beat Looney on a ball bouncing to the middle or the right baseline but the rebound goes to the left baseline and Looney makes the easy put-back over Huerter for the and-1.
(Reb 7 0:59 - 1:07) Moody flops on Sabonis' contact but the refs ignore it. Sabonis is then sandwiched between Moody and Looney under the basket on Lyles' 3pt attempt. If you pause it when the ball hits the rim, Moody is forcing Sabonis back into Looney who has two hands on Sabonis' back preventing him from jumping. Looney then jumps over Sabonis to tip the ball to Moody.
(Reb 8 1:08 - 1:16) Looney is forced to contest Huerter's midrange jumper but then quickly turns around and the Warriors have 3 defenders under the basket with Moody boxing out Lyles on the right baseline, Looney in the middle, and DiVincenzo on the left baseline. The ball hits back iron and Looney secures it. The remaining 4 Kings players are all at the three-point line.
(Reb 9 1:17 - 1:28) Sabonis and Fox run a dribble hand-off on the right wing and Fox drives left getting a layup attempt with his strong hand over Wiggins. Sabonis crashes the glass knowing that Fox is going all the way to the basket but Draymond turns and boxes him out. Looney is guarding Barnes on the play and Barnes clears out to the left corner. Looney keeps one foot in the paint before bailing to avoid the 3 second call. Draymond fights Sabonis for the rebound and it bounces over the top to Looney. The warriors have 4 players in the paint when the ball is secured and the Kings just have 1.
(Reb 10 1:29 - 1:38) Barnes fakes Draymond out of his shoes and should jump into contact to get to the line but instead he pivots and dumps the ball to Sabonis who drives into Looney and rushes a little half hook that comes up short. Sabonis is once again the only Kings player in the paint.
(Reb 11 1:39 - 1:45) After a perfect dump off pass from Huerter Sabonis whiffs an easy one and the ball bounces off the rim straight to Looney.
(Reb 12 1:46 - 2:04) Draymond screens off Davis to force a switch and Keegan has Curry trapped on the sideline but fails to step up quickly enough and Curry dribbles out of it. Fox has an angle to cut Curry off and force a jumper but he swipes at the ball instead leaving Sabonis as the last line of defense. Sabonis steps up but Curry fakes him into the air then short-arms the reverse layup. Huerter is cheating off Klay on the weak side but gets boxed out of the play by Looney. The Kings have the rebounding numbers advantage on this play and Looney gets away with an obvious over the back on Sabonis to secure the rebound. Curry misses a corner three then Wiggins misses a put back dunk and the ball inexplicably finds Curry again who is too good of a player to miss three times in a row and he connects on the floater.
(Reb 13-14 2:05 - 2:40) Looney screens off Davis near the logo forcing Domas to check Curry at the three-point line. He moves his feet well to deny the middle of the floor and Curry tries to sell contact and misses a wild up and under layup. Huerter has to stick on Klay in the left corner but Keegan and Fox are both cheating into the paint on the weak-side. Keegan steps up into the right baseline position and Fox needs to immediately step into the middle but he floats near the free throw line keeping himself out of the play. As the shot goes up Keegan is screening off Draymond on the right baseline, Sabonis is in position on the left baseline and Looney is crashing the glass in the middle with Davis doing his best to gain leverage. The ball bounces right to Davis but Looney is stronger and takes it from him. Wiggins then drives on Fox who steps up instead of sliding his feet and Wiggins drives into Fox and pushes off drawing his 4th foul on a play that Coach Brown decided not to challenge. Fox made two mistakes on this possession and was rewarded with his 4th foul because of it. On the free throw attempt the Kings have three players in position but the ball hits back iron and bounces straight to Looney anyway.
(Reb 15 2:41 - 2:58) Huerter and Mitchell have Curry trapped on the left sideline but he manages to get the ball to Draymond who swings it to Wiggins who is now wide open on the right wing with Monk caught in the middle guarding no one. Sabonis realizes he's the only Kings player on that side of the floor and stunts toward Wiggins but he's too far away so he decides to keep his position and fight Looney for the rebound as Huerter and Monk both run at Wiggins and take themselves out of the play. Sabonis and Keegan turn to box out on the right baseline and left baseline, respectively but Klay is clever and runs around Keegan to secure the middle position. Keegan turns and chases Klay leaving Sabonis to fight Looney for the long rebound. This is just a jumpball situation but the ball is moving to the only place on the floor where Looney has leverage.
(Reb 16 2:59 - 3:10) This is just like the previous Wiggins free throw miss except this time it's Payton that Keegan has to box out on the left block and Huerter knows what happened last time so he puts a body on Looney instead of jumping to the middle of the paint as the shot goes up. Looney gets away with another over the back push on Sabonis and tips the ball into the bottom of the rim. The carom is secured by Huerter.
(Reb 17-18 3:11 - 3:37) Okay, this is the play I think most people are focusing on. It's the first obvious misplay by Sabonis and he just looks tired. Poole throws up a crazy step-back three and the Kings have 3 players crashing the glass. Monk turns to find Payton and boxes him out on the left baseline. Keegan and Domas are both securing the middle with Looney boxed out at the free throw line and Thompson out of the play in the right corner. As the ball hits the rim this is a 90% chance of a Kings rebound. The only way the Warriors get this ball is if Payton wins leverage over the smaller Monk or the ball somehow finds Looney over the top. The ball hits back rim and caroms toward the left wing where Payton is able to outjump Monk for it. That's just a tough bounce. Monk had 9 rebounds in the game so it's hard to fault him for his technique either. Payton kicks out to Wiggins on the left wing who immediately throws up a three. Huerter turns to box out Klay on the right baseline, Domas needs to box out Looney in the middle though because no one is on the left baseline position. Failing to box out Looney here gives him 2/3 of the rebounding pie and that's exactly what happens. The ball hits the rim twice and rolls out straight to the left baseline position and Looney reacts faster than Sabonis. On the ensuing scrum Wiggins is wide open under the basket and Sabonis now has to step up to contest a dunk which he does successfully and he even lines up to rebound the ball but it rolls on the rim and he mis-times his jump giving Looney another free rebound and putback. I just chalk this play up to fatigue. The last 6 Looney rebounds have all occurred within 2 and a half minutes of game time and Sabonis is exhausted.
(Reb 19 3:38 - 3:46) This is the first play of the 4th. At this point in the game the Warriors have stretched what was a closely contested game into a 10 point lead at the start of the 4th. Sabonis is exhausted but this is Game 7 so he stays on the floor. Klay isolates against Monk on the left wing and drives right into the paint. Klay has a step on Monk but Monk adjusts to cut off the drive and Klay settles for a fadeaway jumper. Unfortunately, Sabonis had to be ready to stop the drive if Klay continued all the way to the basket so he doesn't even turn to locate Looney until Klay is into his shooting motion. This shouldn't matter though since Barnes is in the left baseline position and both Fox and Monk should step up into the right baseline and middle positions respectively. Sabonis is now fully inside the charge circle and is too far under the basket to box out Looney but he tries anyway. The ball goes to the middle which Monk has just vacated to step into the right baseline position instead. Fox never steps up at all. Looney is able to beat Barnes to the middle and he's at the free throw line when he secures the ball. This play felt like a sort of knock-out blow and it only happens because Fox didn't crash the glass like he was supposed to.
(Reb 20 3:47 - 3:57) This play starts with another Sabonis to Fox dribble hand off at the three point line. Fox drives under the basket then kicks to Barnes for a wide open three point shot from the right corner. As the shot goes up Fox is falling out of bounds leaving Sabonis as the only Kings player in the paint. Draymond has him boxed out on the left baseline position and Looney has the middle and the right baseline uncontested. The ball bounces to Sabonis and he whiffs it. Looney picks it up after it hits the floor.
(Reb 21 3:58 - 4:10) I don't remember the context but when this play starts Huerter is switched onto Draymond at the midcourt line and Sabonis is on Thompson. Draymond nearly losses it then shovels it to Curry on the right sideline. Draymond hip checks Sabonis after the pass to take him out of the play and Thompson runs behind Curry (out of bounds nearly the whole way) to get a wide open corner three on the right side. Thompson is so wide open he dribbles once like he's attempting a free throw while Huerter runs to contest. Keegan and Monk are now the two Kings players in the paint but Keegan was considering making a run at Klay and has lost track of Looney completely leaving Monk to box him out on the left baseline position. This goes about as well as expected. Looney high points it above the rim and Monk has no chance.
This is partly true. Sabonis was the rebound king in the regular season but he didn't play Golden State all 82. Also, as has been pointed out elsewhere, the Kings won the rebounding battle for the overall series. Single game results are flukey. We can point to areas where the Kings can improve but I don't agree that the Warriors came out with more intensity in Game 7 and the Kings failed to match it. That's sports talking head nonsense -- whoever wins the game gets the "rose to the occasion" label without fail, right? On a lot of the rebounds in that video Sabonis is out of position because he's forced to contest the shot or he times his jump and the ball bounces on the rim a second time. The Kings can't expect him to fight 1 on 3 on the glass and win with regularity.
Now that we know the result you can work backwards and find all the things the Kings did wrong in that one game but the reality of what happened in Game 7 is that a lot of Kings shots went halfway down and out, a lot of loose balls bounced right to the Warriors. Random chance decided this game more than anything the Kings did. If half of those close misses fall it's a different game. If the ball doesn't constantly bounce to the Warriors in the third quarter it's a different game. If Curry misses 3 or 4 more jumpers it's a different game. Should we alter our entire off-season approach based on random chance?
There's a lot of talk about rebounding technique but again I think most of these takes are confusing results with process. Here's how I think of rebounding: divide up the space under the basket into 3 pie slices (1) right baseline (2) middle (3) left baseline. If you put a body in each slice and the opponent does not, you win the rebound. If you and an opponent both share a slice the goal is to get enough leverage to ensure that you secure the ball if it bounces to your area. It's still a game of probabilities. Stronger players have an advantage because it's harder to get leverage on them but even if you do everything right, you can't be in three places at the same time. The solution is to send more bodies or do a better job of denying your opponent leverage.
Here's what I see in the rebounding footage:
(Reb 1-5 0:00 - 0:40) The Kings offense is so perimeter oriented that they don't bother to send anyone under the basket to fight for an offensive rebound, they just concede their own misses to GS. Keegan is the only one who makes a move toward the basket and he does get the tip-out on the last play here. Looney then gets the long carom because he'd just taken himself out of rebounding position on Monk's jumper.
(Reb 6 0:41 - 0:58) Klay uses a Looney screen to get by Kevin Huerter. The Kings do not switch but Domas is ready for the drive and slides easily under the basket to make a good contest taking both him and Thompson out of rebounding position. Huerter is trailing the play but makes no effort to box Looney out. Even without boxing out, Huerter is still in position to beat Looney on a ball bouncing to the middle or the right baseline but the rebound goes to the left baseline and Looney makes the easy put-back over Huerter for the and-1.
(Reb 7 0:59 - 1:07) Moody flops on Sabonis' contact but the refs ignore it. Sabonis is then sandwiched between Moody and Looney under the basket on Lyles' 3pt attempt. If you pause it when the ball hits the rim, Moody is forcing Sabonis back into Looney who has two hands on Sabonis' back preventing him from jumping. Looney then jumps over Sabonis to tip the ball to Moody.
(Reb 8 1:08 - 1:16) Looney is forced to contest Huerter's midrange jumper but then quickly turns around and the Warriors have 3 defenders under the basket with Moody boxing out Lyles on the right baseline, Looney in the middle, and DiVincenzo on the left baseline. The ball hits back iron and Looney secures it. The remaining 4 Kings players are all at the three-point line.
(Reb 9 1:17 - 1:28) Sabonis and Fox run a dribble hand-off on the right wing and Fox drives left getting a layup attempt with his strong hand over Wiggins. Sabonis crashes the glass knowing that Fox is going all the way to the basket but Draymond turns and boxes him out. Looney is guarding Barnes on the play and Barnes clears out to the left corner. Looney keeps one foot in the paint before bailing to avoid the 3 second call. Draymond fights Sabonis for the rebound and it bounces over the top to Looney. The warriors have 4 players in the paint when the ball is secured and the Kings just have 1.
(Reb 10 1:29 - 1:38) Barnes fakes Draymond out of his shoes and should jump into contact to get to the line but instead he pivots and dumps the ball to Sabonis who drives into Looney and rushes a little half hook that comes up short. Sabonis is once again the only Kings player in the paint.
(Reb 11 1:39 - 1:45) After a perfect dump off pass from Huerter Sabonis whiffs an easy one and the ball bounces off the rim straight to Looney.
(Reb 12 1:46 - 2:04) Draymond screens off Davis to force a switch and Keegan has Curry trapped on the sideline but fails to step up quickly enough and Curry dribbles out of it. Fox has an angle to cut Curry off and force a jumper but he swipes at the ball instead leaving Sabonis as the last line of defense. Sabonis steps up but Curry fakes him into the air then short-arms the reverse layup. Huerter is cheating off Klay on the weak side but gets boxed out of the play by Looney. The Kings have the rebounding numbers advantage on this play and Looney gets away with an obvious over the back on Sabonis to secure the rebound. Curry misses a corner three then Wiggins misses a put back dunk and the ball inexplicably finds Curry again who is too good of a player to miss three times in a row and he connects on the floater.
(Reb 13-14 2:05 - 2:40) Looney screens off Davis near the logo forcing Domas to check Curry at the three-point line. He moves his feet well to deny the middle of the floor and Curry tries to sell contact and misses a wild up and under layup. Huerter has to stick on Klay in the left corner but Keegan and Fox are both cheating into the paint on the weak-side. Keegan steps up into the right baseline position and Fox needs to immediately step into the middle but he floats near the free throw line keeping himself out of the play. As the shot goes up Keegan is screening off Draymond on the right baseline, Sabonis is in position on the left baseline and Looney is crashing the glass in the middle with Davis doing his best to gain leverage. The ball bounces right to Davis but Looney is stronger and takes it from him. Wiggins then drives on Fox who steps up instead of sliding his feet and Wiggins drives into Fox and pushes off drawing his 4th foul on a play that Coach Brown decided not to challenge. Fox made two mistakes on this possession and was rewarded with his 4th foul because of it. On the free throw attempt the Kings have three players in position but the ball hits back iron and bounces straight to Looney anyway.
(Reb 15 2:41 - 2:58) Huerter and Mitchell have Curry trapped on the left sideline but he manages to get the ball to Draymond who swings it to Wiggins who is now wide open on the right wing with Monk caught in the middle guarding no one. Sabonis realizes he's the only Kings player on that side of the floor and stunts toward Wiggins but he's too far away so he decides to keep his position and fight Looney for the rebound as Huerter and Monk both run at Wiggins and take themselves out of the play. Sabonis and Keegan turn to box out on the right baseline and left baseline, respectively but Klay is clever and runs around Keegan to secure the middle position. Keegan turns and chases Klay leaving Sabonis to fight Looney for the long rebound. This is just a jumpball situation but the ball is moving to the only place on the floor where Looney has leverage.
(Reb 16 2:59 - 3:10) This is just like the previous Wiggins free throw miss except this time it's Payton that Keegan has to box out on the left block and Huerter knows what happened last time so he puts a body on Looney instead of jumping to the middle of the paint as the shot goes up. Looney gets away with another over the back push on Sabonis and tips the ball into the bottom of the rim. The carom is secured by Huerter.
(Reb 17-18 3:11 - 3:37) Okay, this is the play I think most people are focusing on. It's the first obvious misplay by Sabonis and he just looks tired. Poole throws up a crazy step-back three and the Kings have 3 players crashing the glass. Monk turns to find Payton and boxes him out on the left baseline. Keegan and Domas are both securing the middle with Looney boxed out at the free throw line and Thompson out of the play in the right corner. As the ball hits the rim this is a 90% chance of a Kings rebound. The only way the Warriors get this ball is if Payton wins leverage over the smaller Monk or the ball somehow finds Looney over the top. The ball hits back rim and caroms toward the left wing where Payton is able to outjump Monk for it. That's just a tough bounce. Monk had 9 rebounds in the game so it's hard to fault him for his technique either. Payton kicks out to Wiggins on the left wing who immediately throws up a three. Huerter turns to box out Klay on the right baseline, Domas needs to box out Looney in the middle though because no one is on the left baseline position. Failing to box out Looney here gives him 2/3 of the rebounding pie and that's exactly what happens. The ball hits the rim twice and rolls out straight to the left baseline position and Looney reacts faster than Sabonis. On the ensuing scrum Wiggins is wide open under the basket and Sabonis now has to step up to contest a dunk which he does successfully and he even lines up to rebound the ball but it rolls on the rim and he mis-times his jump giving Looney another free rebound and putback. I just chalk this play up to fatigue. The last 6 Looney rebounds have all occurred within 2 and a half minutes of game time and Sabonis is exhausted.
(Reb 19 3:38 - 3:46) This is the first play of the 4th. At this point in the game the Warriors have stretched what was a closely contested game into a 10 point lead at the start of the 4th. Sabonis is exhausted but this is Game 7 so he stays on the floor. Klay isolates against Monk on the left wing and drives right into the paint. Klay has a step on Monk but Monk adjusts to cut off the drive and Klay settles for a fadeaway jumper. Unfortunately, Sabonis had to be ready to stop the drive if Klay continued all the way to the basket so he doesn't even turn to locate Looney until Klay is into his shooting motion. This shouldn't matter though since Barnes is in the left baseline position and both Fox and Monk should step up into the right baseline and middle positions respectively. Sabonis is now fully inside the charge circle and is too far under the basket to box out Looney but he tries anyway. The ball goes to the middle which Monk has just vacated to step into the right baseline position instead. Fox never steps up at all. Looney is able to beat Barnes to the middle and he's at the free throw line when he secures the ball. This play felt like a sort of knock-out blow and it only happens because Fox didn't crash the glass like he was supposed to.
(Reb 20 3:47 - 3:57) This play starts with another Sabonis to Fox dribble hand off at the three point line. Fox drives under the basket then kicks to Barnes for a wide open three point shot from the right corner. As the shot goes up Fox is falling out of bounds leaving Sabonis as the only Kings player in the paint. Draymond has him boxed out on the left baseline position and Looney has the middle and the right baseline uncontested. The ball bounces to Sabonis and he whiffs it. Looney picks it up after it hits the floor.
(Reb 21 3:58 - 4:10) I don't remember the context but when this play starts Huerter is switched onto Draymond at the midcourt line and Sabonis is on Thompson. Draymond nearly losses it then shovels it to Curry on the right sideline. Draymond hip checks Sabonis after the pass to take him out of the play and Thompson runs behind Curry (out of bounds nearly the whole way) to get a wide open corner three on the right side. Thompson is so wide open he dribbles once like he's attempting a free throw while Huerter runs to contest. Keegan and Monk are now the two Kings players in the paint but Keegan was considering making a run at Klay and has lost track of Looney completely leaving Monk to box him out on the left baseline position. This goes about as well as expected. Looney high points it above the rim and Monk has no chance.
This is partly true. Sabonis was the rebound king in the regular season but he didn't play Golden State all 82. Also, as has been pointed out elsewhere, the Kings won the rebounding battle for the overall series. Single game results are flukey. We can point to areas where the Kings can improve but I don't agree that the Warriors came out with more intensity in Game 7 and the Kings failed to match it. That's sports talking head nonsense -- whoever wins the game gets the "rose to the occasion" label without fail, right? On a lot of the rebounds in that video Sabonis is out of position because he's forced to contest the shot or he times his jump and the ball bounces on the rim a second time. The Kings can't expect him to fight 1 on 3 on the glass and win with regularity.
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I didn’t say the issue was just Sabonis, it was the whole Kings team standing around waiting for rebounds to come to them. There were many times when the Kings had 3 or 4 players in the paint and the lone Warrior gets the rebound. It happened many times. The Kings stood there expecting the rebound to just fall to them and the Warriors players jumped and reached up and took the rebound away from them.
The Kings can’t let that happen in the playoffs and expect to beat the defending chaps in a series. The Kings needed to meet the ball in the air and take the rebound down to secure it. Too often they were left flat footed and the Warriors chased down the ball. In a tight series like this one, a rebound or 2 can be the difference in a one possession game, like Game 4. The Kings were out hustled.
The Kings can’t let that happen in the playoffs and expect to beat the defending chaps in a series. The Kings needed to meet the ball in the air and take the rebound down to secure it. Too often they were left flat footed and the Warriors chased down the ball. In a tight series like this one, a rebound or 2 can be the difference in a one possession game, like Game 4. The Kings were out hustled.
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I suppose my point was that there's been too much focus on the Game 7 results. If we're going to fault the Kings for getting outhustled in Game 7, shouldn't we also credit them for outhustling the Warriors in games 1, 2, and 6? Or for that matter in Game 4 when the Kings had an open jumper to win it and just missed. Narratives are written after the fact to explain the results and since the results are irrefutable that narrative starts to take on the mystique of inevitability. The Warriors winning this Game 7 doesn't mean that they will inevitably win all Game 7s against the Kings or that the Kings are incapable of being the aggressor and winning in big moments. I'd much rather people dissect the footage looking at what specific plays the Kings reacted poorly on instead of making these sweeping condemnations about the team's toughness, intensity or experience.
Also you can do everything right and the ball bounces in a bad direction and you still lose it. It's not always about technique. I only found one play in that entire 4 minutes of Looney supposedly kicking Sabonis' behind in which Sabonis made a poor play that resulted in Looney grabbing the rebound. In almost every case he's boxing Looney out correctly but has no help or he needs to contest a shot and that takes him out of position to rebound and no one else steps up. The problem to be corrected here for the Kings is that they're asking Sabonis to control the boards by himself. Fox in particular needed to do a better job of controlling his section of the floor after a shot goes up. And there's the over the back non-calls on Looney rebounds #7, 12, and 16 which are not basketball plays or "playoff intensity" they're simply illegal contact that needs to be called.
I know a lot of people like to cite the fact that Sabonis led the league in rebounds this year, but that doesn't mean he is the best rebounder in the league. Don't get me wrong. Sabonis is a solid rebounder. However, it's his overall value and combination of skills elsewhere that allow him to play many minutes per game and thus rack up more rebounds for the rebound title. Heck if Reggie Evans got the minutes Sabonis got, he'd lead the league in rebounding too.
Looney averages 14.0 REB per36 while Sabonis averages 12.8 REB per36. He was matched up with a superior rebounder and got his butt kicked a couple times. Rather than pointing the finger at Sabonis, I'd rather focus on how we add another above average rebounder to the starting lineup. Fox, Huerter, Murray, and Barnes are all average to below average rebounders. Having just one more guy in that lineup that can rebound at a solid rate would really help.
EDIT: When looking at REB per36 (but filtering out anyone who played less than 30 games and 450 minutes), Sabonis was actually 16th in the league in REB while Looney was 6th in the league. Again, Sabonis is a solid rebounder but there are definitely better rebounders in the league. He needs more help clearing the glass.
Looney averages 14.0 REB per36 while Sabonis averages 12.8 REB per36. He was matched up with a superior rebounder and got his butt kicked a couple times. Rather than pointing the finger at Sabonis, I'd rather focus on how we add another above average rebounder to the starting lineup. Fox, Huerter, Murray, and Barnes are all average to below average rebounders. Having just one more guy in that lineup that can rebound at a solid rate would really help.
EDIT: When looking at REB per36 (but filtering out anyone who played less than 30 games and 450 minutes), Sabonis was actually 16th in the league in REB while Looney was 6th in the league. Again, Sabonis is a solid rebounder but there are definitely better rebounders in the league. He needs more help clearing the glass.
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Watching how freely Jokic shoots from all over the floor makes the difference pretty clear. Defenses can't sag back against him which opens up way more passing lanes for him as well. Domas isn't a bad shooter, he may never be Jokic but if he just shoots with enough volume everything changes.
The GSW series making it so obvious to everyone - including the Kings given how Domas started shooting more late in the series - means this is something we should see change a lot next year
The GSW series making it so obvious to everyone - including the Kings given how Domas started shooting more late in the series - means this is something we should see change a lot next year
that’s pretty misleading too. looney has essentially one job, position himself to grab long rebounds off of Steph and Klays misses. He is number one in the league on the offensive glass because he excels on those long boards.
Sabonis is the hub of the offense, often away from the basket on DHOs. He is an excellent rebounder not a good one.
Sabonis is the hub of the offense, often away from the basket on DHOs. He is an excellent rebounder not a good one.
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I was at the game and it was pretty obvious that Domas was trying to get boards but Looney just got them instead of him.
I think it was due to Domas's wingspan.
I saw the dude extend and it looked to me he was honestly trying to get boards but Looney would just get them instead, I definitely remember that on at least one occasion.
I think you need someone that can go toe to toe with Looney's length, Domas is just not lengthy enough (imo from what I saw)
I think it was due to Domas's wingspan.
I saw the dude extend and it looked to me he was honestly trying to get boards but Looney would just get them instead, I definitely remember that on at least one occasion.
I think you need someone that can go toe to toe with Looney's length, Domas is just not lengthy enough (imo from what I saw)
I don't remember Sabonis being a shooting liability once all season until we saw him in the playoffs refusing to use his injured hand for anything. When you know the player has to drive
I don't think Brown would be a good fit here, the ball already has to be in the hands of Sabonis/Fox for 80-90% of the action. Brown is a serious player to bring in to give such a small piece of the action to and tell him to keep the ball moving. I don't want Brown to get the ball thinking that he needs to get to the basket other than as an absolute last priority when the play is broken.
I don't think Brown would be a good fit here, the ball already has to be in the hands of Sabonis/Fox for 80-90% of the action. Brown is a serious player to bring in to give such a small piece of the action to and tell him to keep the ball moving. I don't want Brown to get the ball thinking that he needs to get to the basket other than as an absolute last priority when the play is broken.
I tend to agree with this assessment though, subjectively speaking, Jaylen is one of my 5 favorite current players in the NBA so I'd be inclined to find a way to make it work anyway. 
His defensive ability at the SG/SF positions would be a big upgrade for us and if he could check his ego and focus on improving his percentages with less attempts and less pressure to self-create I'm sure we'd sort out the offense so that no one felt left out. He'd really have to want to leave a competitive team in Boston to play for a championship under Mike Brown though. I do think Sacramento may become a desirable destination with an award winning coach, a devoted fanbase, and a likeable pair of stars who play a fun brand of up-tempo team-first ball but I have no idea if any of that would appeal to Jaylen Brown specifically.
His defensive ability at the SG/SF positions would be a big upgrade for us and if he could check his ego and focus on improving his percentages with less attempts and less pressure to self-create I'm sure we'd sort out the offense so that no one felt left out. He'd really have to want to leave a competitive team in Boston to play for a championship under Mike Brown though. I do think Sacramento may become a desirable destination with an award winning coach, a devoted fanbase, and a likeable pair of stars who play a fun brand of up-tempo team-first ball but I have no idea if any of that would appeal to Jaylen Brown specifically.Quoting to emphasise this point.
Not entirely sure of the end game of Sabonis shade from this thread. Is it simply to say we can't rely on him to be our everything or is it to say move on?
Sabonis isn't perfect but really facilitated our style of play this year.
Replacing HB, who is a relatively low impact player on defence, with someone who can rebound, challenge shots, and be somewhat disruptive at that end would be less problematic. As long as his replacement can still catch and shoot and doesn't ruin our spacing.
Alternatively, we replace HB with a strong perimeter defender and ask Murray to defend more at the four spot and also challenge him to be more assertive with rebounding.
Not entirely sure of the end game of Sabonis shade from this thread. Is it simply to say we can't rely on him to be our everything or is it to say move on?
Sabonis isn't perfect but really facilitated our style of play this year.
Replacing HB, who is a relatively low impact player on defence, with someone who can rebound, challenge shots, and be somewhat disruptive at that end would be less problematic. As long as his replacement can still catch and shoot and doesn't ruin our spacing.
Alternatively, we replace HB with a strong perimeter defender and ask Murray to defend more at the four spot and also challenge him to be more assertive with rebounding.
