What do we think of Petrie now?

You say all Jason Williams will do is jack up threes? What else did Damon Jones do all last year? Seemed to work out pretty well for them. Williams is more of a playmaker than D. Jones, too, and will allow Wade to slide to SG (where he feels more comfortable). And Walker will apparently take the Robert Horry role. I think things will be more than OK in Miami.
 
Bricklayer said:
One would think, but Riley called him in a few days before the trade to talk to him about it, and apparently liked what he heard. Guess we'll see.

I don't think Riley's opinions hold much weight... but I am a Walker fan...
 
Team Dime said:
That's what I'm saying, they're messing with the chemistry of the team. It's unnecessary. They're bringing in two guys of questionable character. The Heat should've kept the team intact, they very well may have won the whole thing last year had Shaq and Wade been healthy.

Keeping it together means just getting old and falling slowly off the map. This was a very nice aggressive move to reload and stiomp onto the scene with maybe the best talent in the league. Will it result i a titla? Who knows. But its a damn good attempt to get one. Shaq and Jones are going to slowly devcline now, and the bench already sucked. They needed to get BETTER, nto jsut stay the same, to even be as good as they were last year.
 
Bricklayer said:
Keeping it together means just getting old and falling slowly off the map. This was a very nice aggressive move to reload and stiomp onto the scene with maybe the best talent in the league. Will it result i a titla? Who knows. But its a damn good attempt to get one. Shaq and Jones are going to slowly devcline now, and the bench already sucked. They needed to get BETTER, nto jsut stay the same, to even be as good as they were last year.

It all depends on the big man's health. If they had kept the team intact, and Shaq was healthy, they could be even better than last year. They could be a great team with the new guys if Shaq's healthy. Who knows how Shaq will hold up.

Walker will help alot more than JWill. However, Walker's a very streaky player who's had some very poor lines in the past. It remains to be seen how he and Jwill will handle the playoffs in that offense.
 
LPKingsFan said:
You say all Jason Williams will do is jack up threes? What else did Damon Jones do all last year? Seemed to work out pretty well for them. Williams is more of a playmaker than D. Jones, too, and will allow Wade to slide to SG (where he feels more comfortable). And Walker will apparently take the Robert Horry role. I think things will be more than OK in Miami.

Damon Jones though, had great 3P accuracy through out the season, and was absolutely lethal on many occasions with his shooting. I think it's possible that sometimes during the season, things could get iffy w/ J-Will and the shots. Especially if it's both J-Will/Walker in the line-up, which I think I read may not be a definite w/ Walker. I'd prefer/rather/put Posey in the starting line-up anyways. J-Will is a better PG than D-Jones though, because basically, D-Jones is an undersized two-guard with some point decent point skills.

I think mostly though, the Heat are gonna be strong and better than last season, especially if they got Posey in the starting line-up. That'd be big.
 
LPKingsFan said:
You say all Jason Williams will do is jack up threes? What else did Damon Jones do all last year? Seemed to work out pretty well for them. Williams is more of a playmaker than D. Jones, too, and will allow Wade to slide to SG (where he feels more comfortable). And Walker will apparently take the Robert Horry role. I think things will be more than OK in Miami.

Damon Jones - 43.2% three point shooting last season
Jason Williams - 32.4% three point shooting last season

Damon is more of a spot up shooter, he gets his 3's from the execution of the offense. Jason creates more of his 3's. He's not as smart with moving off the ball or letting his defender create an opening and Damon is a better set shooter than Jason. With the percentages JWill has put up over his career, the Heat will have some trouble if he's going to take as many 3 pointers as Damon Jones did. Opposing teams know the numbers, if he can't hit the open spot up jumper they'll start daring him to shoot. He hardly attacks the basket as it is if opposing defenses can sag off him, his game will be severly limited because Wade is going to be the primary ballhandler in the halfcourt. Has Jason ever shown that he's able to play off the ball the way Damon has?

And I'll go ahead and say that Antoine Walker will not be playing anything like Robert Horry next season or in any other season. He's being brought in strictly for the offense. The Heat basically had no bench scoring last season. Keyon Dooling or Rasual Butler would come off the bench every 3rd game and make 2 or 3 shots and the announcers would start talking about an "offensive explosion" because it was so rare that anyone came off the bench and made more than a couple buckets in a half. Walker is going to come in with the green light and he's going to use it.

I think Toine has the better chance of avoiding Shaq's wrath. The guards are the ones who need to hit the jumpshots Shaq gives them and who need to take care of the ball and give him good post entry passes. Toine has at least shown some fire in his career. I could see Jason really getting on Shaq's nerves if things aren't working out at the end of the season.
 
Last edited:
Kev.in said:
Damon Jones - 43.2% three point shooting last season
Jason Williams - 32.4% three point shooting last season.
You're forgeting this part

Jones in his season before having Shaq in the post - 35.9%

I'd expect Williams to have some kind of improvement from 3pt land this upcoming season as Jones did.
 
Mad D said:
You're forgeting this part

Jones in his season before having Shaq in the post - 35.9%

I'd expect Williams to have some kind of improvement from 3pt land this upcoming season as Jones did.

Good point. But shot selection might still be a problem sometimes.
 
Mad D said:
You're forgeting this part

Jones in his season before having Shaq in the post - 35.9%

I'd expect Williams to have some kind of improvement from 3pt land this upcoming season as Jones did.

Little difference though int hat neither Jason nor Twoine for that matter is really a structured catch and shoot three point shooter. Jones is a roleplayer, so his three point shooting is likely to go up or down largely dependant ont he talent level of the star or stars he is playing with and their willingness to kick it ot him. Jason and Twoine chuck up a LOT of threes, but they like to do it at random intervals whenever they feel moved rather than as part of an organized kickout. Think the success or failure of this big trade for the Heat may largely depend on whether either guy can be tamed enough to settle down and take the easy spoonfed threes the way Jones does rather than chucking up illadvised threes at random intervals that will likely go in at not much better pace than they did for them at their former addresses.
 
Sad to say but it looks like as long as GP is the Kings GM, The Kings will truely address the defensive side of the ball. They are just too afraid that it would mess up our precious offense even if that would mean we would be screwed with long contracts with almost untradable players for years to come. It almost seems the Webb trade and some other deals were not Petrie Genius but pure luck. As time goes bye I can't help but think that "Trust In Petrie" means little. I hope GP can somehow turn this around and restore his rep and make this team a contender again. And not the pathetic pretender we are now.:(
 
slugking50 said:
Sad to say but it looks like as long as GP is the Kings GM, The Kings will truely address the defensive side of the ball. .:(
Don't you mean you think the Kings truely won't address the defensive side of the ball?
 
SacTownKid said:
One thing I think people forget is that Webber should have been an all-star last season! He can still play, and it will be interesting to see what he can do in Philly next year.

Here is an interesting question. Lets say if Webber was earning 8-9 million dollars on his contract, instead of 19, would the Kings have even traded him?

nope. He'd still be a King. Likewise if he had never been injured, he would still be a King. That trade was a result of the bad combination of a huge contract and uncertain health.

Even with the knee, I think it's hard to consider the trade a success if at the end of the summer we still have Thomas, Corliss, and Skinner, and we traded the heart and soul of our team for three players who provide little to no salary relief and come off the bench... but maybe that's just me.
 
love_them_kings said:
Even with the knee, I think it's hard to consider the trade a success if at the end of the summer we still have Thomas, Corliss, and Skinner, and we traded the heart and soul of our team for three players who provide little to no salary relief and come off the bench... but maybe that's just me.
For bench players, they are pretty solid. And Petrie picked up two starters without losing a starter, so that pretty much evens out the Webber trade for me.
 
love_them_kings said:
nope. He'd still be a King. Likewise if he had never been injured, he would still be a King. That trade was a result of the bad combination of a huge contract and uncertain health.

Even with the knee, I think it's hard to consider the trade a success if at the end of the summer we still have Thomas, Corliss, and Skinner, and we traded the heart and soul of our team for three players who provide little to no salary relief and come off the bench... but maybe that's just me.

If he was making between 8-10 million with a shorter contract, he'd definitely still be a King. Your right, monster deal to a relatively small market team with a guy with a huge injury, definitely won't cut it. He's an 8-10 guy right now at his best, with Iverson, he's probally worth between 7-8.
 
SAR may not have been the best acquisition, but I don't know why everybody would seem unsatisfied. He acquired a GOOD power forward in Rahim (certainly an upgrade over Skinner, and a slight upgrade over Thomas) and a very good guard in Wells. I think Petrie made the best out of the situation.
 
thesanityannex said:
For bench players, they are pretty solid. And Petrie picked up two starters without losing a starter, so that pretty much evens out the Webber trade for me.

yeah, they are pretty solid for bench players, I just think we should have gotten more for Webb. If nothing else, some salary relief or something. I'm happy with the recent acquisitions, and I still like Petrie, but unless something happens with these "flexible trading pieces" I just don't think the Webb trade (as an isolated incident) helped the team.
 
I think Petrie has done an excellent job. Just look at what has transpired in the last 2 seasons:

1) Vlade was not resigned. He proceeded to play 15 games for the Lakers last year.
Not much else need to be said here.

2) Bonzi ($8 mil) came as a result of letting Cuttino ($6-7 mil) go, Cuttino came last year after trading away Christie ($8 mil). Now I would say for roughly the same salary, Bonzi is an upgrade from Christie at this juncture of their respective careers...both offensively and defensively.

3) Although Webber's trade brought mixed emotions to our fan base here, how do you justify $60 mil on a wobbled knee? If Webber went down as a King, our franchise would be crippled for years. Putting all emotions aside, Kenny (for the last 20 games last year) was putting up roughly the same numbers (18-9) as Webb...but he comes at a much cheaper price (can you say a difference of $12 mil?).

4) Getting Shareef at $5 mil? While I don't think Shareef is a superstar by any means, this is a bargain...a thievery of major proportion in modern history. Remember, Shareef could have been a Buck (for $48+ mil), a Net (for $38 mil), but he is a King today (for $29 mil). While not everyone is sold on Shareef, Petrie got the best PF available. And yes, contrary to some beliefs, KG, Duncan, and Amare were not available. We got the best guy who was available on the open market.
 
love_them_kings said:
yeah, they are pretty solid for bench players, I just think we should have gotten more for Webb. If nothing else, some salary relief or something. I'm happy with the recent acquisitions, and I still like Petrie, but unless something happens with these "flexible trading pieces" I just don't think the Webb trade (as an isolated incident) helped the team.
If Kenny Thomas can swallow his pride(6th man of the year candidate), along with what Petrie has done so far, the Webber trade is a wash.
 
Show me a team that got better, younger, and more bang for our buck...and I'll show you Geoff Petrie.

Now show me teams (and there are many) like the Knicks who got worse, older, and less bang for their buck with all those horrible contracts...and I'll show you a GM that should have been fired 3 years ago.
 
love_them_kings said:
yeah, they are pretty solid for bench players, I just think we should have gotten more for Webb. If nothing else, some salary relief or something. I'm happy with the recent acquisitions, and I still like Petrie, but unless something happens with these "flexible trading pieces" I just don't think the Webb trade (as an isolated incident) helped the team.

one of the mantras i have often preached is that you do not trade away all-star and superstar level talent unless you are going to get all-star or superstar talent in return. obviously, c-webb's situation made it difficult because of his uncertain health status and his inflated contract, but i still believe the kings could have done better. i dont believe petrie had to pull the trigger on the deal that eventually played out. i think it would have been more pertinent to wait until this offseason...and, possibly, a better deal. i have also maintained that i dont think it was fully petrie's decision to pull the trigger on the trade in question. i believe he was under some amount of pressure from the maloofs, who were willing to mow webb's lawn if he stayed, but unwilling to dole out the big bucks with webb's uncertain future. i have long been a fan of webber's, and i respect the man's talent and his willingness to adapt, but i can sympathize with the maloofs and/or petrie's desire to move such a huge question mark. i just wish we had gotten all-star level talent in return...or at least semi-talented players with expiring contracts. we were what, 3 seasons removed from having webb's salary off the books? now we're five seasoned removed from having thomas' contract off the books. granted, the salaries not as large, but its still got us up over the cap, and its still inflated, and thomas' value decreases as his contract increases each year...so i dont know how petrie is gonna move this "flex piece," or the others, for that matter. if thomas were 2 inches taller (which is the difference between getting the crucial defensive board or giving it up to the offense), then i might not mind waiting his contract out. but, as it stands, he gives us nothing we dont already have in less expensive players.
 
Padrino said:
one of the mantras i have often preached is that you do not trade away all-star and superstar level talent unless you are going to get all-star or superstar talent in return. obviously, c-webb's situation made it difficult because of his uncertain health status and his inflated contract, but i still believe the kings could have done better. i dont believe petrie had to pull the trigger on the deal that eventually played out. i think it would have been more pertinent to wait until this offseason...and, possibly, a better deal. i have also maintained that i dont think it was fully petrie's decision to pull the trigger on the trade in question. i believe he was under some amount of pressure from the maloofs, who were willing to mow webb's lawn if he stayed, but unwilling to dole out the big bucks with webb's uncertain future. i have long been a fan of webber's, and i respect the man's talent and his willingness to adapt, but i can sympathize with the maloofs and/or petrie's desire to move such a huge question mark. i just wish we had gotten all-star level talent in return...or at least semi-talented players with expiring contracts. we were what, 3 seasons removed from having webb's salary off the books? now we're five seasoned removed from having thomas' contract off the books. granted, the salaries not as large, but its still got us up over the cap, and its still inflated, and thomas' value decreases as his contract increases each year...so i dont know how petrie is gonna move this "flex piece," or the others, for that matter. if thomas were 2 inches taller (which is the difference between getting the crucial defensive board or giving it up to the offense), then i might not mind waiting his contract out. but, as it stands, he gives us nothing we dont already have in less expensive players.

I agree. I've always maintained that making the trade midseason wasn't necessary. And, I just flat out don't think it's the best we could do. I'm a huge Webb fan, and would have loved to keep him & pray for his health for 3 years. However, that's a purely emotional perspective, and I completely respect the decision of the Maloofs and/or Petrie to not make that gamble. That said, I just think this was the wrong trade at the wrong time. Wrong time, because making that big of a move midseason was bound to have a major impact on the team, and wrong trade, because, frankly, I just don't think we got enough for him. I was hopeful, and still maintain some hope, that Petrie had a master plan that turned one/some of these player(s) into a worthwhile trade that made everything make sense. That has yet to happen, and until it does we have traded Webb and everything he meant to this team for added depth on our bench. That, to me, is not a wash.
 
I've maintained right from the beginning that there was much more to the trade than ever broke the news. I doubt if we will ever know the whole truth. I firmly believe it was the Maloofs who told Petrie to pull the trigger, partially because they were afraid it might be the best offer they would get - especially if Webb's knee didn't hold up.

I also think - quite frankly - the situation between Peja and Webber had become so splintered, partially because of the people involved and partially because of the zeal with which SOME members of the local media chose to report it, that one or the other had to go.

Anyone who has been on this board for any length of time knows the respect I have for Chris Webber. I will not soon forget the excitement he brought to our team and I am forever grateful for his heart, his desire to win, his warrior spirit, etc. Unfortunately, I think that very warrior spirit that caused him to want everyone else around him to WANT the prize as much as he did may have been his final downfall.

But, the ship sailed. For whatever reasons, Webber was traded. It's over and done. The three pieces we got back are what we got back. And they're what Petrie has to work with now.

I'm not going to hold it against Petrie for the simple reason I think he did what he was told to do. But I'm not going to be as vocal about his genius because that trade first made me realize that Petrie alone is not calling the ultimate shots. The Maloofs are, to some extent at least. Any question of that was resolved when Petrie was in the hospital, virtually fighting for his life, and one of the Maloofs was on the phone to Phil Jackson's agent.

Bottom line and my answer to the original question?

I still think Petrie can build an EXCELLENT team. He's done it before and it looks as though he's doing a pretty good job of rebuilding a decent team from the rubble that was left at the end of the season. And, for me, that's the most I can hope for. It could be a lot worse. He could be Mitch Kupchak.

;)
 
Kings Fan said:
or Dave Twardzik (Orlando)

or Billy Knight (Atlanta)

or Rob Babcock (Toronto)

or Danny Ainge (Boston)

or worse Isiah Thomas (Knicks)

You've got to watch out for Ainge -- I have ridiculed him in the past too, but then you start looking at his roster and you realize that apart from the two badly overpaid big men and Pierce, he has all of a sudden managed to accumulate a PILE of young talent at almost every position. If he can cash Pierce in for something good he may have really pulled off the true rebuild ont he fly and have a young core that could be around for a long time.
 
VF21 said:
Any question of that was resolved when Petrie was in the hospital, virtually fighting for his life, and ...............
I agree with a lot of what you said in this post. However, that is a gross over-dramitazion. I had the procedure done at the young age of 33 and that was several years ago. Going into the procedure it could have come out bad needing something like open heart surgery or a good prognosis needing a simple splent. It appears his was the latter, not life threatening unless it was left untreated. The fact he had the procedure does not infer he was fighting for his life. Simply, problem detected and problem resolved at least short term.
 
whozit said:
I agree with a lot of what you said in this post. However, that is a gross over-dramitazion. I had the procedure done at the young age of 33 and that was several years ago. Going into the procedure it could have come out bad needing something like open heart surgery or a good prognosis needing a simple splent. It appears his was the latter, not life threatening unless it was left untreated. The fact he had the procedure does not infer he was fighting for his life. Simply, problem detected and problem resolved at least short term.

Granted, I may have resorted to exaggeration. However, the main points of my comment stand as they were originally written. Regardless of WHY Petrie was in the hospital, the Maloofs circumvented him to get to Jackson's agent. That indicates exactly what I was trying to show - that the Maloofs do NOT trust all their basketball operation decisions to their GM.
 
Back
Top