Wesley Matthews

[twslam07]

With Sacramento being Sacramento and the fact that we were unable to establish a competitive team this last year, it may prove to be very difficult to impossible to sign any of the quality free agent SGs (Bazemore, Crabbe, Lee, Fournier, etc.).

With that being said, this trade gives us the ability to upgrade the SG position through trade.

Dallas Gets: Kosta Koufos & Ben McLemore
Dallas Gives: Wesley Matthews, Devin Harris, & JaVale McGee
Why for Dallas? Free up about $13 mil in cap space. Acquire solid center that fits alongside Nowitzki while not having to break the bank for a starting center in FA (giving them the ability to use their $60mil in cap space to round out PG/SG/SF in their rotation).

Sacramento Gets: Wesley Matthews, Devin Harris, & JaVale McGee
Sacramento Gives: Kosta Koufos & Ben McLemore
Why for Sacramento? Acquire an overpaid but good 3 and D SG (with the hope that he returns to his Portland days) while also picking up backup players in Harris & McGee).


PG - Collison / Harris
SG - Matthews / Belinelli
SF - Gay / Casspi / Butler
PF - Cauley-Stein
C - Cousins / McGee


This leaves the Kings with $14 mil still to spend in FA. If they want, they could try and dump Belinelli for an additional $6 mil in cap space. I'm not a big fan of signing Anderson for reasons I have already stated many times on this site, so I'd probably shoot for Solomon Hill ($32 mil/4 years), Andrew Nicholson ($12 mil/3 years), & Quincy Acy ($6 mil/3 years). From there, I'd resign Curry considering he's a RFA and draft whoever is available from my top 8 (Simmons, Ingram, Bender, Dunn, Hield, Brown, Murray, & Chriss) and the team set.

PG - Collison (30 min) / Harris (18 min) / Curry
SG - Matthews (32 min) / Hill (16 min) / Belinelli
SF - Gay (32 min) / Casspi (8 min) / Hill (8 min) / Butler
PF - Cauley-Stein (18 min) / Casspi (16 min) / Nicholson (14 min) / Acy / Chriss
C - Cousins (36 min) / Cauley-Stein (12 min) / McGee

Cousins - 36 min
Matthews - 32 min
Gay - 32 min
Collison - 30 min
Cauley-Stein - 30 min
Hill - 24 min
Casspi - 24 min
Harris - 18 min
Nicholson - 14 min

That's a pretty deep team with much improved defense. If Matthews improves on last season, you're looking at a very good team with plenty of veteran experience around Cousins. Considering Collison/McLemore/Gay/Thompson/Cousins was one of the best lineups in the league, I would be excited to see what a Collison/Matthews/Gay/Cauley-Stein/Cousins lineup is able to accomplish. Not only is the immediate bench solid (Harris/Hill/Casspi/Nicholson), but the deep bench is very good in case of injuries (Curry/Belinelli/Butler/Acy/McGee) which should help keep us competitive through the marathon season.

 

[Gilles]

First thing, that goes away from 28+ y.o. NBA player after achilles injury, is statistically his outside shot, and Matthews was at .360 3pt% after hovering in .390-.400 area for most of his career. And based on the study, I remember from last summer, I would bet heavily, that Wes' outside shooting doesn't bounce back. Defense hasn't returned to previous level as well, so I would not want to invest in Wes' seasons of 30-32 y.o..

 

[kingsboi]

you really wanna try this again with Wes? pass. Had our chance, he chose otherwise. He can keep his contract and mediocre play in Dallas.

 

[dude12]

you really wanna try this again with Wes? pass. Had our chance, he chose otherwise. He can keep his contract and mediocre play in Dallas.

Agreed...Mathews can suck it

 

[Jojimbo]

With Sacramento being Sacramento and the fact that we were unable to establish a competitive team this last year, it may prove to be very difficult to impossible to sign any of the quality free agent SGs (Bazemore, Crabbe, Lee, Fournier, etc.).

With that being said, this trade gives us the ability to upgrade the SG position through trade.

Dallas Gets: Kosta Koufos & Ben McLemore
Dallas Gives: Wesley Matthews, Devin Harris, & JaVale McGee
Why for Dallas? Free up about $13 mil in cap space. Acquire solid center that fits alongside Nowitzki while not having to break the bank for a starting center in FA (giving them the ability to use their $60mil in cap space to round out PG/SG/SF in their rotation).

Sacramento Gets: Wesley Matthews, Devin Harris, & JaVale McGee
Sacramento Gives: Kosta Koufos & Ben McLemore
Why for Sacramento? Acquire an overpaid but good 3 and D SG (with the hope that he returns to his Portland days) while also picking up backup players in Harris & McGee).


PG - Collison / Harris
SG - Matthews / Belinelli
SF - Gay / Casspi / Butler
PF - Cauley-Stein
C - Cousins / McGee


This leaves the Kings with $14 mil still to spend in FA. If they want, they could try and dump Belinelli for an additional $6 mil in cap space. I'm not a big fan of signing Anderson for reasons I have already stated many times on this site, so I'd probably shoot for Solomon Hill ($32 mil/4 years), Andrew Nicholson ($12 mil/3 years), & Quincy Acy ($6 mil/3 years). From there, I'd resign Curry considering he's a RFA and draft whoever is available from my top 8 (Simmons, Ingram, Bender, Dunn, Hield, Brown, Murray, & Chriss) and the team set.

PG - Collison (30 min) / Harris (18 min) / Curry
SG - Matthews (32 min) / Hill (16 min) / Belinelli
SF - Gay (32 min) / Casspi (8 min) / Hill (8 min) / Butler
PF - Cauley-Stein (18 min) / Casspi (16 min) / Nicholson (14 min) / Acy / Chriss
C - Cousins (36 min) / Cauley-Stein (12 min) / McGee

Cousins - 36 min
Matthews - 32 min
Gay - 32 min
Collison - 30 min
Cauley-Stein - 30 min
Hill - 24 min
Casspi - 24 min
Harris - 18 min
Nicholson - 14 min

That's a pretty deep team with much improved defense. If Matthews improves on last season, you're looking at a very good team with plenty of veteran experience around Cousins. Considering Collison/McLemore/Gay/Thompson/Cousins was one of the best lineups in the league, I would be excited to see what a Collison/Matthews/Gay/Cauley-Stein/Cousins lineup is able to accomplish. Not only is the immediate bench solid (Harris/Hill/Casspi/Nicholson), but the deep bench is very good in case of injuries (Curry/Belinelli/Butler/Acy/McGee) which should help keep us competitive through the marathon season.

I love it and would do it in a heartbeat if there weren't any better deals being looked at. @kingsboi and @dude12, it's pretty ridiculous to rule a guy out because of his decision to pass on your team in a previous free agency period. What is valid however is his injury. I'd be just as wary as everyone else regarding his ability to return to his pre injury form. That said, if we can't lock down Lee or another quality starting SG then I think it'd be a great move to make.

 

[dude12]

I love it and would do it in a heartbeat if there weren't any better deals being looked at. @kingsboi and @dude12, it's pretty ridiculous to rule a guy out because of his decision to pass on your team in a previous free agency period. What is valid however is his injury. I'd be just as wary as everyone else regarding his ability to return to his pre injury form. That said, if we can't lock down Lee or another quality starting SG then I think it'd be a great move to make.

Didn't he get offered more money here and then still bolted? Not that ridiculous if the said player doesn't think much of your organization. That is not who Vlade is targeting. Management and the new coaching staff is talking about all being in.....So no to Mathews.....besides, he is damaged goods on a big ass contract. Not worth the risk.

 

[KingsFanGER]

First thing, that goes away from 28+ y.o. NBA player after achilles injury, is statistically his outside shot, and Matthews was at .360 3pt% after hovering in .390-.400 area for most of his career. And based on the study, I remember from last summer, I would bet heavily, that Wes' outside shooting doesn't bounce back. Defense hasn't returned to previous level as well, so I would not want to invest in Wes' seasons of 30-32 y.o..

I luckily never had an achilles injury, but why should a players outside shot suffer, when he basically doesn't jump when attempting an outside shot?
Wes Matthews always had this flat footed shot with barely any elevation and his form looked pretty much like pre injury this season. His game was always about strength, body positioning and set shots, so he doesn't rely on athleticism that much.
The slight drop in 3 pt % could easily be caused by playing with less dominant teammates and being asked to create for his own more. There might be a difference playing with Lillard, Aldridge and Batum or the old versions of Dirk, Williams and Felton.
No player the Kings could potentially sign comes without risks. There might be only a handful of teams, who won't pursue the available SG/SF FA's like Bazemore, Fournier or even Crabbe this summer, so the Kings should take their time to evaluate any opportunity to improve the biggest need of this roster.
I doubt the Mavs will rebuild as long as Dirk decides to play out his contract ( Dirk was extremely loyal and Cuban most likely won't insult him by forcing him to play for a lottery team in his last NBA season), but if they want to move on from Wes I would think long and hard about picking up the phone and trying to get him for a reasonable offer.

 

[ockingsfan]

I love it and would do it in a heartbeat if there weren't any better deals being looked at. @kingsboi and @dude12, it's pretty ridiculous to rule a guy out because of his decision to pass on your team in a previous free agency period. What is valid however is his injury. I'd be just as wary as everyone else regarding his ability to return to his pre injury form. That said, if we can't lock down Lee or another quality starting SG then I think it'd be a great move to make.

Matthews basically proved he was not worth his oversized contract all year. He is one year older, coming off a major injury, that does not usually mean he will get better.

I'd pass. Vlade has already said he wants a family atmosphere and he wants players that want to be here in Sacramento.

I feel like we dodged a major mistake when he decided to sign with Dallas.

Why take on his massive contract now? Let Dallas reap the "rewards" of "winning" that Free agent bidding war.

 

[Gilles]

I luckily never had an achilles injury, but why should a players outside shot suffer, when he basically doesn't jump when attempting an outside shot?
Wes Matthews always had this flat footed shot with barely any elevation and his form looked pretty much like pre injury this season. His game was always about strength, body positioning and set shots, so he doesn't rely on athleticism that much.
The slight drop in 3 pt % could easily be caused by playing with less dominant teammates and being asked to create for his own more. There might be a difference playing with Lillard, Aldridge and Batum or the old versions of Dirk, Williams and Felton...

I just remember a study from last summer: only one player out of around 25, who suffered late career achilles injury, managed to up his 3pt%, others really slipped. And that one was a big man, who hasn't shot 3s earlier in his career and just developed it, while recovering. You can bring all the arguments for Matthews' shot recovering, but I will gladly to take the opposite bet.

 

[twslam07]

I just remember a study from last summer: only one player out of around 25, who suffered late career achilles injury, managed to up his 3pt%, others really slipped. And that one was a big man, who hasn't shot 3s earlier in his career and just developed it, while recovering. You can bring all the arguments for Matthews' shot recovering, but I will gladly to take the opposite bet.

It's a very fair point and something to be concerned about, but almost any big move the Kings make this offseason will have some risk. Whether it's trading for a guy like Matthews or overpaying for someone in FA.

 

[Sac.Kings]

I would much rather target someone like Oladipo than Matthews. Younger, more athletic and still a solid defender. I would give up the 8th pick for him. He's about the best case scenario for a #8 pick anyway and is still young.

 

[ockingsfan]

I would much rather target someone like Oladipo than Matthews. Younger, more athletic and still a solid defender. I would give up the 8th pick for him. He's about the best case scenario for a #8 pick anyway and is still young.

Interesting name, but has there been any indication that Orlando wants to move Oladipo?

If so, I would be open to trading the #8 for him. Not sure Orlando would do that though.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Interesting name, but has there been any indication that Orlando wants to move Oladipo?

If so, I would be open to trading the #8 for him. Not sure Orlando would do that though.

There was during this last season, but they cooled off towards the trade deadline. However, where there's smoke...

It would be worth a shot to at least inquire about him. Matthews is approaching 30, while Oladipo is still on his rookie contract. Orlando could do a lot with the 8th and 11th pick (maybe make another trade or select 2 players). Just food for thought..

 

[ockingsfan]

There was during this last season, but they cooled off towards the trade deadline. However, where there's smoke...

It would be worth a shot to at least inquire about him. Matthews is approaching 30, while Oladipo is still on his rookie contract. Orlando could do a lot with the 8th and 11th pick (maybe make another trade or select 2 players). Just food for thought..

The only problem with Orlando rumors from February is that they have a new coach in Frank Vogel now and he may want to keep Oladipo and his defense around.

But you never know.

I think that Orlando may be more inclined to move Elfrid Payton than Oladipo right now.

 

[Sac.Kings]

The only problem with Orlando rumors from February is that they have a new coach in Frank Vogel now and he may want to keep Oladipo and his defense around.

But you never know.

I think that Orlando may be more inclined to move Elfrid Payton than Oladipo right now.

I forgot all about that actually... their situation is still one to watch as Fournier is a RFA and depending on what offer they match, or don't match, a lane to getting Oladipo may open up. There are a ton of unknowns this offseason. So many teams have a lot of money to offer that it's really difficult to predict what may or may not happen.

It's exciting. We may get lucky if we don't do anything stupid.

 

[twslam07]

I just remember a study from last summer: only one player out of around 25, who suffered late career achilles injury, managed to up his 3pt%, others really slipped. And that one was a big man, who hasn't shot 3s earlier in his career and just developed it, while recovering. You can bring all the arguments for Matthews' shot recovering, but I will gladly to take the opposite bet.

Curious to note that despite this being Matthew's first year back from injury, he still posted not just a better RAPM but also the only positive RAPM among the free agent SGs we'd be looking at signing this year.

RAPM
Wesley Matthews = +0.60
Courtney Lee = -0.44
Evan Fournier = -1.02
Kent Bazemore = -1.34
Allen Crabbe = -2.40

If you want to consider other free agent targets that have been brought up like S. Hill, H. Barnes, & R. Anderson, he still has them beat as well.

RAPM
Wesley Matthews = +0.60
Solomon Hill = +0.14
Ryan Anderson = 0.00
Harrison Barnes = -1.28

He also has all of the SG FAs beat on on/off with only one other posting positive numbers

On/Off
Wesley Matthews = +6.6
Courtney Lee = +4.2
Allen Crabbe = -1.3
Kent Bazemore = -2.4
Evan Fournier = -4.8

Then you look at Matthew's RAPM from the previous year before his injury and it was a lot higher (+3.65 which put him in the top 30 in the league), so I ask the question again. Do you throw similar money at one of the FA SGs (all 4 of those FAs are going to get around $13-18 mil) in hopes that you can lure one of them here (which is far from a guarantee) even through (statistically) Matthews is helping his team's win more? Considering it's showing he's helping his team's win more now, does it make sense to trade for him as a "safer" player while him also having the upside of getting back to a player who can post +3.65 RAPM?

I'm not sure the answer is as cut and dry as some of you are making it out to be...

 

[twslam07]

If we decide that Matthews is not as bad as he seems and we'd like do a straight up Koufos for Matthews swap, we could look at making a few more deals to strengthen the rest of the roster...

Boston Gets: Jahil Okafor & Rudy Gay
Boston Gives: #3 & Amir Johnson

Philadelphia Gets: #3 & McLemore
Philadelphia Gives: Jahil Okafor & Robert Covington

Sacramento Gets: Amir Johnson & Robert Covington
Sacramento Gives: Rudy Gay & Ben McLemore

Boston gets a potential star & more scoring punch around their excellent perimeter defense.
Philadelphia makes room for Simmons, gets the ability to draft Dunn, & balances their roster (Dunn/McLemore/Simmons/Saric/Noel)
Kings get a good defensive roleplaying PF and a 3&D wing to help bolster the defense



Then you could try...

Atlanta Gets: #8 & Tony Snell
Atlanta Gives: Jeff Teague, Kyle Korver, & #21
Chicago Gets: Kings 2017 1st (Protection lowered to top 3 after Philly has option of swapping)
Chicago Gives: Tony Snell

Sacramento Gets: Jeff Teague, Kyle Korver, & #21
Sacramento Gives: #8 & Kings 2017 1st (Protection lowered to top 3 after Philly has option of swapping)



If we're able to dump Belinelli/#59 for cap space, I'd sign Solomon Hill for $32 mil over 4 years, Seth Curry for $15 mil over 3 years, Acy for $6 mil over 3 years, & Matt Barnes to the minimum. Then at #21, I'd take a guy like Brice Johnson.

PG - Teague/Collison/Curry
SG - Matthews/Korver/M. Barnes
SF - Covington/S. Hill/Butler
PF - A. Johnson/Casspi/Acy/B. Johnson
C - Cousins/Cauley-Stein

That starting lineup has the potential to be pretty darn good if Matthews improves on last year with 1 year of recovery on the books & with Teague supposedly playing hurt last year. Then you have an incredibly deep bench that might just be one of the best benches in the league (Collison/Korver/Hill/Casspi/Caukey-Stein). I'd be very happy with that team going into the year.

 

[Gilles]

Curious to note that despite this being Matthew's first year back from injury, he still posted not just a better RAPM but also the only positive RAPM among the free agent SGs we'd be looking at signing this year.

RAPM
Wesley Matthews = +0.60
Courtney Lee = -0.44
Evan Fournier = -1.02
Kent Bazemore = -1.34
Allen Crabbe = -2.40

If you want to consider other free agent targets that have been brought up like S. Hill, H. Barnes, & R. Anderson, he still has them beat as well.

RAPM
Wesley Matthews = +0.60
Solomon Hill = +0.14
Ryan Anderson = 0.00
Harrison Barnes = -1.28

He also has all of the SG FAs beat on on/off with only one other posting positive numbers

On/Off
Wesley Matthews = +6.6
Courtney Lee = +4.2
Allen Crabbe = -1.3
Kent Bazemore = -2.4
Evan Fournier = -4.8

Then you look at Matthew's RAPM from the previous year before his injury and it was a lot higher (+3.65 which put him in the top 30 in the league), so I ask the question again. Do you throw similar money at one of the FA SGs (all 4 of those FAs are going to get around $13-18 mil) in hopes that you can lure one of them here (which is far from a guarantee) even through (statistically) Matthews is helping his team's win more? Considering it's showing he's helping his team's win more now, does it make sense to trade for him as a "safer" player while him also having the upside of getting back to a player who can post +3.65 RAPM?

I'm not sure the answer is as cut and dry as some of you are making it out to be...

You probably mean ESPN's RPM, right? Well, this statistic has around 2 point swing built-in, plus it's affected by previous year as sort of baseline - I don't remember specifics, but it's due to being based on statistical regression, that needs a starting point, I believe, so it has its demons (waiting on Captain to show up, and point to any words I managed to use the right way ). Plus Damian Lillard had 3.77 RPM last season, this year's - 1.31.

My favorite player for Kings to go after is Solo Hill, and he had much better second half of the season, so I would argue, that his numbers are suppressed. Don't really like anyone else you brought up as a target for the Kings other than Lee, who is on the wrong side of 30 y.o. though.

For +/- argument I would point out, that:
Ben Mclemore is one of the three Kings players besides Boogie and Casspi, who ended the season being a positive presence, i.e. Kings were scoring more than allowing with him on the floor. We already have our +/- hero.
Matthews going to the bench meant Carlisle had to put 2 of Barea, Harris and Felton on the floor. How did such an experiment worked for Kings?
With Dirk on the bench, Matthews in Mavs were -0.1 PPP bad. With both in Mavs were +0.05PPP. Dirk is still that teams' force, everyone else is the background. Spend enough time with Dirk, and you'll have nice +/- numbers.

As for "recovery" again I would gladly take the bet against.

 

[twslam07]

You probably mean ESPN's RPM, right? Well, this statistic has around 2 point swing built-in, plus it's affected by previous year as sort of baseline - I don't remember specifics, but it's due to being based on statistical regression, that needs a starting point, I believe, so it has its demons (waiting on Captain to show up, and point to any words I managed to use the right way ). Plus Damian Lillard had 3.77 RPM last season, this year's - 1.31.

My favorite player for Kings to go after is Solo Hill, and he had much better second half of the season, so I would argue, that his numbers are suppressed. Don't really like anyone else you brought up as a target for the Kings other than Lee, who is on the wrong side of 30 y.o. though.

For +/- argument I would point out, that:
Ben Mclemore is one of the three Kings players besides Boogie and Casspi, who ended the season being a positive presence, i.e. Kings were scoring more than allowing with him on the floor. We already have our +/- hero.
Matthews going to the bench meant Carlisle had to put 2 of Barea, Harris and Felton on the floor. How did such an experiment worked for Kings?
With Dirk on the bench, Matthews in Mavs were -0.1 PPP bad. With both in Mavs were +0.05PPP. Dirk is still that teams' force, everyone else is the background. Spend enough time with Dirk, and you'll have nice +/- numbers.

As for "recovery" again I would gladly take the bet against.

You're right. I was misrepresenting RAPM for RPM.