Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Quit being an ***.
We're the worst team in the league
- Thread starter BMiller52
- Start date
Quit being an ***.
Oh boo hoo.
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
I don't think the correlation in that case equates to causation. I say that because Cousins has played about the same number of minutes off the bench as he did starting. He generally plays around 20 MPG and was playing about that as a starter too. Also, in the 4 games he started, they ended up in big holes in the first half, which suggests that them winning those games likely didn't have any direct relation to Cousins starting. Having said that, I'd like to see him start again too but at this point I don't think him starting or not is going to make much difference in terms of wins and losses. The important things is just that he's playing as many minutes as possible, whether starting or off the bench.
Last edited:
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
The Rise Guys just said The Kings have their worst record through 14 games since 1993. WOW! I knew it was bad but I didn't know it was THAT bad.
mcsluggo
Starter
its getting harder and harder to support Coach W at this point. its pathetic---- through the first 6 or 7 games, i had seen quarters and halfs here and there, and what I saw where teh kings getting beat sometimes, but really seemed to show PROMISE, and some drive, what they seemed to lack was coherence, efficiency, and "wisdom". But games were generally contested, and some were won. There is none of that promise or drive apparent any more
I can accept losing, but SOMETHING has to be happening. THere is no cohesion whatsoever to the team, and the lack of discipline isn't caused by enthiastic gung-ho attitude. there is no discipline, AND everyone appears apathetic. I am not sure what combination of a milk-mom veteran player, or a sensei coaching staff would shake this, but CLEARLY the kings have none of whatever is needed.
I can accept losing, but SOMETHING has to be happening. THere is no cohesion whatsoever to the team, and the lack of discipline isn't caused by enthiastic gung-ho attitude. there is no discipline, AND everyone appears apathetic. I am not sure what combination of a milk-mom veteran player, or a sensei coaching staff would shake this, but CLEARLY the kings have none of whatever is needed.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
This is really the situation and why its gotten so critical so fast. The team appears to have either quit or be in the process of quitting. Hence the change in tone. Losing is one thing. Casual fans will complain up a storm, but there are good losses and bad losses, and as long as everybody is trying out there and you show flashes of progress, you can live with that. But that sort of shaky start has been followed by the wheels seemingly coming entirely off and people for all intents and purposes not trying anymore. That's really hard to do with a team full of kids. Kids = lose because thye don't know hoe to win. Vets lose because they are jaded. Not so here.
Oh what I wouldn't give to have a microphone into that lockerrom right now. There have been just mysterious goings on all season that just jump out at you as not making sense. In some ways this organizations reflexive secrecy policies may be hurting it now. It makes you supect deep dark ugliness behind things like Donte's disappearance, the whole team seemlingly quitting with Beno complaining, Reke either being hurt or quitting himself -- if their have been reasonable reasons for a lot of these things Westphal's rep would look alot better right now if you knew for instance that Donte was aught partying, that Reke is hurt worse than they are letting on etc. Without that knowledge you are left to speculate that he has simply lost control of the team and they have tuned him out.
From the opening tip to the end most of these guys just look like they don't care out there, outside of the occasional hustle they are moping on the court or shaking their heads on the bench. I think for sure PW has lost a good chunk of the guys on this team.
I agree with the last couple points about PW and how this is getting bad fast. I also throw out there that this is the only time recently where firing a coach this early and getting these kids some new guidance can help alot quickly. These kids need someone in there who will let em go out there, give em some direction and let em learn. It really has taken PW just up until a couple games to not insert Wright and now finally Pooh is getting some run.
This team was never gonna make noise this year and that's fine, but there is no way a team with the offseason we had full of promise is 4-10 sleepwalking through 2nd halfs against the clippers on National TV nonetheless. Going back to last year(I hate to do it) but the guys played very well on their limited National TV exposure I just can't believe what has happened to this teams body language in such a short time.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
It's definently hard to watch this team right now. I don't think it's going to get any better until we see some sort of personnel change whether it's from the coaching spot or from getting a new player or two. Something needs to happen, this isn't fun basketball to watch. In the years I've been a fan of this team, not once was I bored and this depressed of watching them. It seems like this year they are just sucking the life and joy out of the game and it shows on the court.
The Hammer
All-Star
It really could be that there is zero chance for an arena (Stern's words on the issue were pretty explicit), and that the team is either definitely going to move, or even be sold and moved, or worse, contracted upon. If it's the latter, or if there are strong suspicions amongst the players that this is so, there is absolutely no way the team will play cohesively, no possibly way PW could keep from losing the team. Absolutely none.
If it's the second scenario, it would be very much the same thing: impossible to get them to play as a team/give max effort.
If it's the first scenario, just the pure uncertainty of it, combined with the uncertainty created by the looming CBA/lockout would be enough to completely impede team play.
Each of these scenarios could result in the disbanding of the team whether done by the league, new owners through a fire sale/trades, or current owners through a fire sale/trades to unload salary for a move. It's much easier to sell a team, or move a team, with few to nil long terms contracts, with just a few core young players to build around (Evans, Cousins, maybe Casspi, Greene, Whiteside).
We don't know what the players are talking about amongst themselves. We do know that the head of the player's union is telling players to save their money, and to prepare for a lockout. THIS IS HUGE.
In my opinion, there is just too much uncertainty league-wide and/or definite negative circumstances in Sacramento for players to unite and play together on this team. PW may have nearly an impossible job right now due to the circumstances.
You've got to remember that today, payers operate basically as independent businesses. They have agents that negotiate their contracts, endorsement deals, they have image consultants, the whole bit. They have a lot of power. People always say "It's a business."--usually it's said when the FRANCHISE does something business like. But the phrase is just as appropriate when considering things from a player's point of view. It is a business-- and when the business prospects of your own personal situation aren't lining up.... you do what you need to do, which might include not going as hard in order to prevent injury.... not playing in a team first way in order to protect your stats... not doing all the little things that don't show up on the stat sheet simply because the stat sheet may be all you are left with (contraction, team move, team sale), which is a real possibility. It's probably not a certainty, but it is obviously a VERY strong possibility, and you've just got to assume that the players are reacting to this overall situation.
If it's the second scenario, it would be very much the same thing: impossible to get them to play as a team/give max effort.
If it's the first scenario, just the pure uncertainty of it, combined with the uncertainty created by the looming CBA/lockout would be enough to completely impede team play.
Each of these scenarios could result in the disbanding of the team whether done by the league, new owners through a fire sale/trades, or current owners through a fire sale/trades to unload salary for a move. It's much easier to sell a team, or move a team, with few to nil long terms contracts, with just a few core young players to build around (Evans, Cousins, maybe Casspi, Greene, Whiteside).
We don't know what the players are talking about amongst themselves. We do know that the head of the player's union is telling players to save their money, and to prepare for a lockout. THIS IS HUGE.
In my opinion, there is just too much uncertainty league-wide and/or definite negative circumstances in Sacramento for players to unite and play together on this team. PW may have nearly an impossible job right now due to the circumstances.
You've got to remember that today, payers operate basically as independent businesses. They have agents that negotiate their contracts, endorsement deals, they have image consultants, the whole bit. They have a lot of power. People always say "It's a business."--usually it's said when the FRANCHISE does something business like. But the phrase is just as appropriate when considering things from a player's point of view. It is a business-- and when the business prospects of your own personal situation aren't lining up.... you do what you need to do, which might include not going as hard in order to prevent injury.... not playing in a team first way in order to protect your stats... not doing all the little things that don't show up on the stat sheet simply because the stat sheet may be all you are left with (contraction, team move, team sale), which is a real possibility. It's probably not a certainty, but it is obviously a VERY strong possibility, and you've just got to assume that the players are reacting to this overall situation.
tbh the fact that their bad is not whats wrong... the clippers are bad but they still sell out their stadium because their young and exciting... and not just blake with his highlight reel. aminu is exciting, gordon is exciting, their terrible but their fun to watch... the kings are bad and dont give you a reason to watch the game and thats what sucks
L
LWP777
Guest
Worst record since 1993, huh? Wow. I didn't think it was that bad. Well, at least we're on our way for another 4-5 pick (because we ALWAYS get unlucky in the draft).
bajaden
Hall of Famer
November 26th. Rookie and I agreed on something. I've marked it down. Seriously, I agree with you. Cousins starting and us going 3 and 1 were just coindence. As a matter of fact, cousins minutes have gone up slightly coming off the bench. It might be fun to see Cousins and Whiteside on the floor together once Whiteside is up to speed. I can see Whiteside as a very good help defender, which is what Cousins needs on the floor with him. There are a lot of things wrong right now, but Cousins not starting isn't one of them.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Pretty sad if were already saying wait till next year this early in this year. Pretty sad!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Lets not get carried away. There have been some pretty bad teams over the years. And unless your old enough to have seen them all, it might be better to just deal with this year. I don't even think this is the worse sacramento team to be honest with you.
Gary
All-Star
And we already know the guy can pass so WHY aren't we getting it to Cousins in the post and letting him work is Divac like magic?
Ive noticed on MULTIPLE occasions of Reke posting up in front of DMC. DMC is in post position demanding the ball. When i think Tyreke is about to feed the ball to DMC, he passes it to Head or whoever is close, and then runs directly in FRONT of DMC and posts up right in that same friggen position on the court? Kind of like literally ignoring DMC, and takes his position? Of course they feed the ball to Tyreke and DMC walks away looking frustrated. Has anybody noticed this? WTF is that about?
LakersStink
G-League
That's what happens when you have Paul Westfail coaching your team. Couldn't even hack it with Seattle or Phoenix with even better talent then. I think it's pretty clear to smart people: the reason the players won't play is because they hate the coach. Everyone on the active roster wants him fired. Kings are playing like the Bulls did when the Kings came back in that epic win last season. They have lost faith in Westfail and it shows through lax effort and no effort. They are playing just hard enough to collect a paycheck and not be questioned by their performance.
Last edited:
RookieOfTheDay
Starter
Those things certainly could be an issue. If they are though, that's pretty pathetic. These guys are paid millions to perform their best every night, not just when things are going well. Not only that, but just basic pride alone should should make them at least put in a good effort every time they take the court, regardless of how uncertain the future may be.
Arco Thunder
Bench
I want so badly to spend my hard earned money on some great seats to watch this team play, but I can't bring myself to do it. They are playing pathetically right now, and barely worth my time (if that) watching them on television. Have they collectively given up on coach Westphal? Possibly so. I am very close to wanting to see him go as well. This is a very hard time to be a Kings fan. I admit it... I'm embarrassed. I hope that our players are embarrassed as well, and will choose to do something about it. Right now, I see a group of guys that really don't appear to care. Perhaps one or two do, but most of them don't. Yes, this is a frustrating time for me as a Kings fan. Is the writing already on the wall? I hope not. I truly hope not.
Last edited:
Jkbiker
Starter
ok Win or lose we need consistant lineups the only line up changes I was expecting was Cuz vs Sammy at the 5, Omri vs Donte at the 3, and Landry vs JT
And these changes should have been done maybe once or twice during the season
PW did his magic rotations last two seasons didnt work then either
Beno and Reke should not play together except for over lap when Garcia comes out to Rest
These Nine should be it except for major foul trouble or injuries
Darnell Jackson? Luther Head? Pooh Jeter? Yes they all had thier moments and out performed the projected 9 man rotation, but at what cost? Yes they all have a role if there are injuries
Landry in a funk, JT plying out of position, Garcia who was on fire during the first 5 games? Beno who should run team when on the floor, Reke running the show otherwise,
Donte too many dnps when he needed consistant minutes to develop, Omri without consistant minutes and people to find him.
Consistant rotation, with an offensive plan, defensive effort, players working with the same players on the court
Im sorry PW playing the flavor of the day just dont work
And these changes should have been done maybe once or twice during the season
PW did his magic rotations last two seasons didnt work then either
Beno and Reke should not play together except for over lap when Garcia comes out to Rest
These Nine should be it except for major foul trouble or injuries
Darnell Jackson? Luther Head? Pooh Jeter? Yes they all had thier moments and out performed the projected 9 man rotation, but at what cost? Yes they all have a role if there are injuries
Landry in a funk, JT plying out of position, Garcia who was on fire during the first 5 games? Beno who should run team when on the floor, Reke running the show otherwise,
Donte too many dnps when he needed consistant minutes to develop, Omri without consistant minutes and people to find him.
Consistant rotation, with an offensive plan, defensive effort, players working with the same players on the court
Im sorry PW playing the flavor of the day just dont work
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Having gone to the Kings/Clipper game last year, I can assure that it wasn't sold out. Much nicer arena than ours though, with countless amenities with walking distance in all directions. I'll let you know if its sold out this year when we go on Dec 6th. No argument on them having a more excition team than us right now though. Although we do have the superior record. (LOL)
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I really doubt that the arena issue or the possible lockout has any effect on the play of any individual player. I played sports at a pretty high level, although in another sport, and I think just about everyone that has played sports wants to win, and your not thinking of anything else other than the game when your on the floor. Its when a player feels he has no chance of winning, that problems arise. I'm sure all the players have concerns about the coming expiration of the CBA. But that would apply to the Lakers as well as the Kings. The arena issue has been there for years, so I doubt its suddenly clouding the players mind while on the court.
When I played all I cared about was winning. If I went 4 for 4 at the plate and we won, great! But if I went 0 for 4 and we won, also great! But 4 for 4 and a loss was worthless. Almost every player I knew at the professional level felt the same way. I did say ALMOST!! Point is, I think these guys truely want to win. At the moment they just don't think whatever plan they have is going to end up as a win. At least thats how it appears to me.
The Hammer
All-Star
Thing is though, basketball is a team game, and when you don't have players playing as a team, you can't really give full effort, (off ball pics), etc.
We do still see a lot of strong individual efforts on defense. But defense is also a team game: rotations, etc.
When team chemistry goes, it can start to look like a bunch of guys not playing hard. But the lack of a team first mentality really does impede, or perhaps prevent that kind of effort.
The Hammer
All-Star
If your observations are accurate, that would point squarely to a lack of confidence in the coach, the guy coming up with the plan.
Similar threads
