well, this says a lot about our Point Guard

The Kings are getting better. That is the bottom line.

Actually, that's debateable. They've been on a few win streaks before this season. Now they score a lot and can't play defense. in the beginning they played defense and couldn't score. Coach Smart has found two different ways for this team to lose a lot of games. With new ownership and a new coach, the kings will definately get better. That is the bottom line.
 
IT definitely looked very good last night. these kinds of games make marcus thornton seem more and more expendable, which is a useful notion, because his contract could net a better-fitting piece down the line. personally, i'd prefer to keep little buckets over little thomas, but ultimately, you have to make choices as a franchise. it would be more cost effective to keep thomas, and thornton has value around the league as a prolifically streaky scorer...

in "the now," yes, the kings have gone 5-4. and in that stretch of 9 games, they've swayed between inspired and awful, as has been the case since the all-star break. the fact of the matter is that they suit up demarcus cousins, tyreke evans, marcus thornton, isaiah thomas, and jimmer fredette, all ball-dominant players with an eye for scoring. of late, tony douglas has managed to snatch most of jimmer's minutes, and that's a move in the right direction, because douglas knows how to play a passive role in the offense while also contributing on the defensive side of the ball. but that still leaves one too many players in the regular "rotation" who require an active role in the offense to be effective, and 'reke is still the only one among those ball-dominant kings who plays relatively consistent defense. so, once again... choices. and when i say "choices," i mean the right ones, the kind that seek to maximize the talents of your best players...

just think about the kings of old. chris webber was the only fish in the ball-dominant pond. peja was primarily a stand-still shooter, which is no slight. he was among the best of all time. christie was a defensive-minded utility player. bibby was great in the pick and roll. as was divac. they all helped make chris webber look incredible without requiring the ball. webb was the superstar that made the kings a contender, and peja acted as an incredibly efficient all-star-level second option. it helped that the team also played consistent defense. they weren't world beaters on that side of the ball, but they were good enough. and where did rick adelman stash bobby jackson, a ball dominant combo guard? he came off the bench as a sixth man, a role in which he was free to catch fire whenever he wanted...

that team had balance, and while i would certainly not expect this mismatched kings team to reach that upper echelon of team play, i do believe in forward-thinking. so i retain a duo of cousins and evans (because you need at least two all-stars or young talents with all-star potential to have a shot at contending in the contemporary nba, particularly out west), with an eye on a starting caliber PG who can initiate the offense, hit the occasional stand still jumper, and stay mostly out of the way, with an eye on a starting caliber SF who can play solid wing defense, hit the occasional stand still jumper, and stay mostly out of the way, with an eye on a starting caliber PF who can play solid post defense, block the occasional shot, and stay mostly out of the way. i bring isaiah thomas and patrick patterson off the bench. i consider keeping toney douglas and cole aldrich as 12th man types, but really, everybody else is expendable in pursuit of the pieces that fit. yes, in "the now," the kings have gone 5-4. they do look better. but they're not going anywhere in the long run with their current configuration. i certainly hope they continue to play .500 or better for the remainder of the season, because progress is progress, but even if the team wasn't changing ownership hands next month, i'd still be calling for massive overhaul...
 
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Here are IT's stats since the All Star Break (18 games)

49% field
92% FT
45% 3 pt
18 points, 5.3 assists, 1.8 TOs ..in 30.7 minutes a game.

In his second year he has an assist/TO ratio of 2.9 to 1.

If you want to look for major issues with this team, look somewhere else. He's not the reason they are losing.
 
Here are IT's stats since the All Star Break (18 games)

49% field
92% FT
45% 3 pt
18 points, 5.3 assists, 1.8 TOs ..in 30.7 minutes a game.

In his second year he has an assist/TO ratio of 2.9 to 1.

If you want to look for major issues with this team, look somewhere else. He's not the reason they are losing.

"but...but.... He's a ball-hog! Napolean Complex! He hates Tyreke and Cousins! Huge Ego! Other nonsense that tries to diminish IT!"

95% of the anti-IT campaign is utter hogwash. Good teams/coaches find a way to take advantage of a crazy efficient/complete offensive scorer. I expect us to do the same when we get a real coach. IT/Reke/Cousins is a lethal offensive trio if we can get them working in the right system
 
"but...but.... He's a ball-hog! Napolean Complex! He hates Tyreke and Cousins! Huge Ego! Other nonsense that tries to diminish IT!"

95% of the anti-IT campaign is utter hogwash. Good teams/coaches find a way to take advantage of a crazy efficient/complete offensive scorer. I expect us to do the same when we get a real coach. IT/Reke/Cousins is a lethal offensive trio if we can get them working in the right system

I actually agree with this. I think Isaiah is going to be a much bigger force to be reckoned with than a lot of people are willing to consider. But, as has been said so many times, it starts with a competent coach who will reign him in when necessary and blend his strengths with those of the other players around him.
 
get those assists up to 7-8 and those stats do look very good, especially the shooting %. but it doesnt tell the whole story. too bad none of those stats show you what happens on the defensive end of the court though......
 
Here are IT's stats since the All Star Break (18 games)

49% field
92% FT
45% 3 pt
18 points, 5.3 assists, 1.8 TOs ..in 30.7 minutes a game.

In his second year he has an assist/TO ratio of 2.9 to 1.

If you want to look for major issues with this team, look somewhere else. He's not the reason they are losing.

disregarding the fact that the kings are a poor defensive team, and IT's defense leaves something to be desired, tyreke's post-all star break stats looked awfully similar prior to thomas' recent hot streak. not coincidentally, 'reke's numbers have since taken a dip in lieu of the IT explosion...

the fact remains that it is tremendously difficult to start two ball dominant guards at the success of both. tyreke is the superior talent and the better two-way player, which is why it makes all kinds of sense for the kings to acquire a less needy starting caliber PG to play alongside of tyreke, in order to bring thomas off the bench in a super sixth man role. they can then parlay marcus thornton's contract into an additional complementary piece. but a starting backcourt of thomas and evans is neither complementary nor a particularly efficient use of both players' talents. this roster needs balancing, and thomas need not be ditched in order to create that balance, but eventually shifting him into a more appropriate role will pay much greater dividends in the long run...
 
IT's skillset or talent isn't the issue. It's him filling a role we don't need which is the issue. What's the role we don't need? Someone besides Reke/Cuz thinking they should be leading the team is scoring. But, PG's make their teammates better. So we'd naturally assume both Reke and Cuz have benefited from IT's play, right?

IT since the break: 18 ppg, 5 apg
Reke since the break: 15.9ppg, 4.6 apg
Cuz since the break: 15.6ppg, 10.1 rpg

Our top two players are playing below their potential. Seems it's IT instead of Reke/Cuz, not IT in addition to Reke/Cuz. The trio won't be as effective as possible if the top two are being held back. IT should add to Reke/Cuz, not take away from their games.

My guess is we're a better team if it's

Cuz-20/10
Reke-18/5/5
IT- 13/6-7

not reversed with IT as the top option.
 
IT's skillset or talent isn't the issue. It's him filling a role we don't need which is the issue. What's the role we don't need? Someone besides Reke/Cuz thinking they should be leading the team is scoring. But, PG's make their teammates better. So we'd naturally assume both Reke and Cuz have benefited from IT's play, right?

IT since the break: 18 ppg, 5 apg
Reke since the break: 15.9ppg, 4.6 apg
Cuz since the break: 15.6ppg, 10.1 rpg

Our top two players are playing below their potential. Seems it's IT instead of Reke/Cuz, not IT in addition to Reke/Cuz. The trio won't be as effective as possible if the top two are being held back. IT should add to Reke/Cuz, not take away from their games.

My guess is we're a better team if it's

Cuz-20/10
Reke-18/5/5
IT- 13/6-7

not reversed with IT as the top option.

How many users is it now who are smarter than Smart? Sixty?
 
So now some people are complaing because Thomas is scoring too much? Unbelievable. The Kings are winning some games for a change.

Smart may be a better coach than most people give him credit for.
 
So now some people are complaing because Thomas is scoring too much? Unbelievable. The Kings are winning some games for a change.

Smart may be a better coach than most people give him credit for.

WAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah are you even watching the quality of our offense/ defense? We are winning purely on talent and because Keith Smart isn't playing Travis Outlaw, Jimmer and TRob for more than 10 minutes a game anymore. As many have said, Smart's rotations alone have cost us a good handful of games earlier in the season. In this little "winning" stretch of ours we've more or less had 1 or 2 players simply go berserk on offense, with little to no help from the rest of the team. In some of the games it was Tyreke just breaking down the defense, in others IT/MT refusing to miss a shot, and against the Suns Cousins was a beast. In all these cases our guys are just going 1 on 1 or against the entire defense and scoring at will, so no I don't think Keith Smart has done anything on his part to help our offense. Defensively we're a joke, and in most of the games we've won the other team simply missed shots (or in the case of Phoenix just a much much lesser team, especially without two of their main guys).

So remind me again how Keith Smart is a better coach than we give him credit for?
 
So now some people are complaing because Thomas is scoring too much? Unbelievable. The Kings are winning some games for a change.

Smart may be a better coach than most people give him credit for.

He's failed on developing the following players:
Cousins
Reke
Jimmer
T-Rob, most of all
Tyler Honeycutt
James Johnson

Oh, but he did a great job on ISAIAH.
 
Out Front Office has never valued playmaking point guards. There will probably be a backcourt shake-up once the Maloofs and Petrie are gone.
 
Really?

IT certainly isn't the guy. His game isn't conducive to running an offense. He's a guy you toss out in the second quarter to get you some pints. As I've said before, it's easy to game plan for IT. Let him get his buckets, because he'll do so at the expense of others.
In fairness to IT, there's no real structure to the offense anyway, so it's not like he's running Smart's plan incorrectly...
And


and, yet, Sacramento has no trouble scoring points. The offense runs "great." Always looking for a fall guy ...and, as usual, looking in the wrong place.
 
IT spent first half of the season on the bench. How did he ran the second unit?
It's easy to score and sometimes pass, when you have the ball and you're only 3rd or 4th player on the floor opposing team concern themselves with.
 
IT spent first half of the season on the bench. How did he ran the second unit?
It's easy to score and sometimes pass, when you have the ball and you're only 3rd or 4th player on the floor opposing team concern themselves with.

That's a decent point, but IT actually did well in Dec coming off the bench, 13 and 3 in 22 off the bench. In his first month as the starter in Jan he struggled, and then he's gone on a little tear recently.

So as the top option off the bench, his assist rate goes down a tad but his scoring efficiency doesn't change.
 
how is that hard to comprehend? Marcus is a SHOOTING GUARD, he's not supposed to be a playmaker like a starting Point Guard is. putting MT in the starting lineup would move Tyreke to the PG. MT wouldnt be "running" the offense and pounding the ball like Isaiah does. thus not taking shots away from Reke and Cuz. rather he would be spacing the floor so that Reke and Cuz can find him open when they draw the defenders

So you move Evans back to PG and then what? Evans wont do a better job at PG than IT has (in regards to all the PG stats you quoted above in the original post).

I don't know what you expect to accomplish with a sideways move like that.

EDIT: I don't think IT is the PG of the future, but we already know that Evans isn't so we should regress like that?

I'm not an IT homer at all but his stats in March are decent enough.
18.6ppg 2.2rpg 5.3apg 2tog 49.4%fg 45%3pt
 
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And


and, yet, Sacramento has no trouble scoring points. The offense runs "great." Always looking for a fall guy ...and, as usual, looking in the wrong place.
Come on now, there's a difference between scoring points and running an offense. It's the difference between consistency and inconsistency.
 
So now some people are complaing because Thomas is scoring too much? Unbelievable. The Kings are winning some games for a change.

Smart may be a better coach than most people give him credit for.
There's no question about that. Of course that's not saying much. Reading the threads here for Smart's tenure has warped my mind. I often wonder just how good a coach he really is.
 
So you move Evans back to PG and then what? Evans wont do a better job at PG than IT has (in regards to all the PG stats you quoted above in the original post).

I don't know what you expect to accomplish with a sideways move like that.

EDIT: I don't think IT is the PG of the future, but we already know that Evans isn't so we should regress like that?

I'm not an IT homer at all but his stats in March are decent enough.
18.6ppg 2.2rpg 5.3apg 2tog 49.4%fg 45%3pt


Decent enough? Those numbers are fantastic.

A good coach finds a way to make IT-Reke-Cousins work offensively. If Wade-LeBron-Bosh and KG-Allen-Pierce can work on a championship level, then so can our trio. The biggest key is to adjust how IT scores his points to where Reke and Cousins are the main playmakers and IT is the benfeficiary of the attention they draw; ala Chris Bosh, Ray Allen.
 
Decent enough? Those numbers are fantastic.

A good coach finds a way to make IT-Reke-Cousins work offensively. If Wade-LeBron-Bosh and KG-Allen-Pierce can work on a championship level, then so can our trio. The biggest key is to adjust how IT scores his points to where Reke and Cousins are the main playmakers and IT is the benfeficiary of the attention they draw; ala Chris Bosh, Ray Allen.

You just put IT on the same plane as Chris Bosh and Ray Allen. Do you realize just how unhinged this whole thing is?
 
You just put IT on the same plane as Chris Bosh and Ray Allen. Do you realize just how unhinged this whole thing is?

No I didn't. I only used them to draw a comparison of 2 previous ball-dominant guys remaining very effective as a 3rd wheel when put into the right role on offense. Never did I say IT is as good as Allen or Bosh.

Nice try though
 
No I didn't. I only used them to draw a comparison of 2 previous ball-dominant guys remaining very effective as a 3rd wheel when put into the right role on offense. Never did I say IT is as good as Allen or Bosh.

Nice try though

In all honesty, I read it the same way. If you had made the disclaimer, it would have been easier to understand. And I kind of agree with you about IT. There is just something about him that I truly like. I think he can blend in with Reke and Cousins under the right leadership and be something special.
 
No I didn't. I only used them to draw a comparison of 2 previous ball-dominant guys remaining very effective as a 3rd wheel when put into the right role on offense. Never did I say IT is as good as Allen or Bosh.

Nice try though

As has been mentioned many many many times, there is quite the difference between a ball dominant point guard vs other positions. Also since you say you are not putting IT in the same category as Bosh and Allen you SURELY realize they were ball dominant because of how terrible the other options on their teams were. Ray Allen had Rashard Lewis in Seattle and Bosh had Bargnani in Toronto... IT being ball dominant in lieu of Cousins and Reke is silly. I personally don't see how IT can be any where close to as effective as he has been if he isn't allowed to dominate the ball, which then negates the entire point of having him part of the trio. In what ways do you see IT being able to be effective when he consistently is the third cog? Typically the third piece has a distinct talent that makes them indispensable whether it be defense, set shooter or play maker.

Sure, if you want to try and convince me he would be a above average sixth man I will agree. The third wheel behind Cousins and Tyreke? No way. It's not a complementary match and I don't see how any coach spins it to work that way.
 
As has been mentioned many many many times, there is quite the difference between a ball dominant point guard vs other positions. Also since you say you are not putting IT in the same category as Bosh and Allen you SURELY realize they were ball dominant because of how terrible the other options on their teams were. Ray Allen had Rashard Lewis in Seattle and Bosh had Bargnani in Toronto... IT being ball dominant in lieu of Cousins and Reke is silly. I personally don't see how IT can be any where close to as effective as he has been if he isn't allowed to dominate the ball, which then negates the entire point of having him part of the trio. In what ways do you see IT being able to be effective when he consistently is the third cog? Typically the third piece has a distinct talent that makes them indispensable whether it be defense, set shooter or play maker.

Sure, if you want to try and convince me he would be a above average sixth man I will agree. The third wheel behind Cousins and Tyreke? No way. It's not a complementary match and I don't see how any coach spins it to work that way.

I agree. It's easy to say IT can just take a back seat and play off Reke and Cuz. Problem is two fold. One, IT is best with the ball in his hands and attacking. Two, if he plays off Reke/Cuz that means he's for all intent and purpose a 5'9" SG. That won't work. It's one thing to do it for a stretch here or there, but full time, to have IT playing off Reke as a starter? There's no point in that. You can find a number of players who'd be better suited to play off Reke as a starter than a 5'9" combo guard. That would be like Chicago going with a Rose/Nate Robinson backcourt and having Nate run around as an off the ball SG. Makes little sense. The mins Nate gets you want him handling and being aggressive. IT is a lot like Nate. You want to use IT the same way.

You're completely right, IT needs the ball. It's got to be either IT or Reke starting. Both rarely play well together, and the few times they do, it's Cuz who's not being used enough. One of the three is never maximized when playing together. So, either trade Reke or move IT to 6th man. He can dominate the ball and be aggressive while we still maximize Reke/Cuz. That's the only way to maximize all three.
 
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I agree. It's easy to say IT can just take a back seat and play off Reke and Cuz. Problem is two fold. One, IT is best with the ball in his hands and attacking. Two, if he plays off Reke/Cuz that means he's for all intent and purpose a 5'9" SG. That won't work. It's one thing to do it for a stretch here or there, but full time, to have IT playing off Reke as a starter? There's no point in that. You can find a number of players who'd be better suited to play off Reke as a starter than a 5'9" combo guard.

You're completely right, IT needs the ball. It's got to be either IT or Reke starting. Both rarely play well together, and the few times they do, it's Cuz who's not being used enough. One of the three is never maximized when playing together. So, either trade Reke or move IT to 6th man. He can dominate the ball and be aggressive while we still maximize Reke/Cuz. That's the only way to maximize all three.

I also find it amusing that we are talking about this again this year. Last year we all talked about the same thing but instead of IT is was Thornton. Our fix? Replace Thornton with IT because obviously a ball dominating PG next to Reke and Cousins is gonna work better than a ball dominate SG. I think with *coaching* the Tyreke/MT had a better chance of working out than this years experiment. BOTH lineups woulda and coulda been improved greatly with a decent coach but I don't feel comfortable saying keeping IT in there with Reke and Cousins will get us where we want to go. Who knows though, terrible coaching and ill-fitting parts have had us trying the whole square peg in a round hole for years. If the Maloof's were to keep the Kings for an addition season my prediction would be that we trade Thornton for a ball dominating SF and move IT to the bench. ;)
 
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