You call it swooning, maybe it's seeing the move as a potential positive move for the vision of the franchise going forward. It's a potentially brilliant move. I'm not even talking about what this does for Cousins....I don't even look at that. Vivek wants the franchise to become a global brand, so he adds one of the most recognized athletes in the world. Like Jamal said, it's a low risk/high reward move.
Welcome Shaq!
- Thread starter John Galt
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You call it swooning, maybe it's seeing the move as a potential positive move for the vision of the franchise going forward. It's a potentially brilliant move. I'm not even talking about what this does for Cousins....I don't even look at that. Vivek wants the franchise to become a global brand, so he adds one of the most recognized athletes in the world. Like Jamal said, it's a low risk/high reward move.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Yeah, haven't seen the rule but it would have to be there. But for the sort of little symbolic share we are talking here, it would hardly be difficult to sell off unless Webber is in talks to become somebody's GM before this same season. Maybe its that. Maybe its something else. Impossible to know, but it does stand out.
William Blake
Bench
It's probably my european soccer fan side speaking (an equivalent of this move would have caused riots by the most passionate/irrational fanbases) but I'm with Brick on this one.
We're still talking about a sports franchise here, there are certain "moral" boundaries to be respected, especially when it comes to secondary stuff like the little amount of publicity and capital that Shaq will bring.
We're still talking about a sports franchise here, there are certain "moral" boundaries to be respected, especially when it comes to secondary stuff like the little amount of publicity and capital that Shaq will bring.
We're also talking about the future of the team AND a certain center who has been proclaimed the future of the franchise. Can you really deny that having Shaq mentor Cousins is a bad thing?
Moral boundaries? If that were true, then #2 wouldn't be hanging in the rafters of STA considering the way Richmond felt when he left.
Whatever.
This thread was supposed to be one of our traditional Welcome threads for someone new to our fold. It's a shame that it had to become something entirely different.
So I should stop being a Kings fan and go support the Lakers because I think Shaq can help us and especially DeMarcus? You're out of control dude. You didn't create the doctrine of what it means to be a Kings fan. You've turned what should be a cool story for Kings fans and a help to our organization into an attack on the Kings fanbase. Bravo.
Of course I care about our history. The Glory Kings years are the reason Im such a huge sports fans today. As I reckon it is for many Kings fans. That doesn't mean Im not going to turn down a potential asset FOR WINNING GAMES in the present because of a rivalry that happened 10 years ago.
What I don't care is holding some grudge against Shaq for what happened 10 years ago. He supported us throughout the arena ordeal and was in general very supportive of our community. He'll, at the very least, be great for PR purposes. As he knows what it's like to be in the limelight, (both good and bad) I think he can really be a mentor to Cousins on how to properly channel is emotion on and off the court. And maybe teach him a thing or 2 about using his size/power to his benefit on both ends of the floor.
Shaquille is the 5th most followed athlete, present or former, on twitter. Not sure how it will work in the end but saying he will bring us little publicity....you may be right but he instantly will bring Sacramento Kings and this new ownership to more people than before. Will what Shaq has to offer, come to fruition, remains to be seen but our owner is rather big on social media and Shaq is a big thing. It can't possibly hurt.
Of the top 5 twitter following(?), iirc it's Ronaldo and KaKa and one other soccer player, then Lebron, then Shaq.
Agreed on all points. I can see Shaq being a resource for Cousins if DC uses him.
William Blake
Bench
Well Shaq isn't exactly famous for his coaching/mentoring skills, I don't have a positive or negative attitude about that part yet.
Anyway my comment wasn't intended to be deliberately polemic, as I've already said I come from a different sports culture and things like this unsettle me. I'm not trying to change anybody's mind.
I believe most NBA fans are aware that the Kings exist and through Twitter Shaw can only do that: bring awareness. What the Kings lack is good publicity, and that can only be turned around in the basketball court.
I will specify it: I'm not saying this acquisition is going to hurt the team in any way, my problem is that it just doesn't feel right in light of the team's history.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I didn't like the rumor when it first came out and I like it even less now. One, I question how much Shaq can really help in the development of anyone, let alone Cuz. Cuz has far more skill than Shaq ever had, he's more similar to a Webber or KG. Shaq doesn't have much of a reputation for developing anyone either. Someone like Hakeem does. Likely because Shaq's dominance heavily relied on size, something you can't teach.
And two, I hate seeing him talk about the Kings as "we" and "us". Screw that. I'll never consider Shaq part of "us". And this quoted part from the article is a slap in the face to Kings fans. One of two guys we battled with most at our peak as a franchise and insulted our team, city and players whenever a mic was put in front of his face is the guy Vivek decided would be best to align himself with in regards to his version of NBA 3.0? So currently, his vision of NBA 3.0 and becoming a global brand appears to be to IGNORE our history and bring in ex-Warriors and ex-Lakers?
This reeks of another gimmick like retiring Peja's jersey. I also find it funny Vivek and Shaq are sitting back and talking about technology and new companies he's looking at. Vivek seems like a huge Shaq fanboy. Does he not realize who we are? Our history? I've been getting a strong impression this regime did little homework on our roster, our players and our fanbase before buying the team. Seems they believe everything Denver, GS or LAL is better than anything we previously had. And I agree with William Blake on this. Joining forces with your enemy in this manner while ignoring your own history would cause riots elsewhere in the world.
BTW, maybe something Cuz learns from Shaq is that Sac is too small a market, like Orlando was, and he eventually forces his way to a larger market. Shaq has never had any respect for small markets. Look at his comments a few months ago when D12 went to Houston. Funny that in changing the culture Vivek looks to a guy like Shaq for positives. Need a real selective memory for this.
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Hadlowe
Starter
I'm nominally a Lakers fan, and cheered them on for the three championships when Shaq was on the team, so take this for what it's worth.
Shaq is a walking example of the worst parts of professional sports. He was a supremely gifted athlete who managed to outclass every opponent through sheer physicality for about eight years of his career. Had he been five inches shorter and seventy pounds lighter, he would have been a borderline bench player. He would have been Reggie Evans. But, because he won the freak genetic lottery, he is looked at as one of the greatest players of all time. His skillset was very limited, and he had the mentality of a ten year old.
He threw tantrums wherever he went. He was lazy about training and improving as a player. But because no one could stop him within ten feet of the rim, we just look past the idiocy and immaturity and remember how he averaged 30 points per game and 12 rebounds with 2 blocks, got himself four rings and are happy that he's on board with the Kings.
And this is the guy we want to train Demarcus? Demarcus needs a role model who can teach him to use his varied skills up to their potential, but Demarcus needs more than just skill refinement. He needs people to help him rein in the crazy when things get bad. Olajuwon would be a much better mentor. Divac would be a much better mentor. Hell, crazy old Bill Walton would be a better mentor.
My 2 cents.
Shaq is a walking example of the worst parts of professional sports. He was a supremely gifted athlete who managed to outclass every opponent through sheer physicality for about eight years of his career. Had he been five inches shorter and seventy pounds lighter, he would have been a borderline bench player. He would have been Reggie Evans. But, because he won the freak genetic lottery, he is looked at as one of the greatest players of all time. His skillset was very limited, and he had the mentality of a ten year old.
He threw tantrums wherever he went. He was lazy about training and improving as a player. But because no one could stop him within ten feet of the rim, we just look past the idiocy and immaturity and remember how he averaged 30 points per game and 12 rebounds with 2 blocks, got himself four rings and are happy that he's on board with the Kings.
And this is the guy we want to train Demarcus? Demarcus needs a role model who can teach him to use his varied skills up to their potential, but Demarcus needs more than just skill refinement. He needs people to help him rein in the crazy when things get bad. Olajuwon would be a much better mentor. Divac would be a much better mentor. Hell, crazy old Bill Walton would be a better mentor.
My 2 cents.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
You could be absolutely right. Cousins and Shaq may indeed bump heads. Any intelligent person can see both sides and the possibility's, both negative and positive. At that point, you have a choice! You can decide to endorse the positive side, or you can decide to endorse the negative side. Either way, it doesn't make you a moron, and it probably says more about an individuals perception in life than it does the actual topic. I'm generally a positive person, and if possible, I'll try to take positive approach to these kind of things. But in the end, its a conscious decision on the individuals part. No right or wrong to it because no one knows the outcome.
Its sort of like whether a person believes in god or not. I've yet to have anyone actually give me proof I can see or hold in my hands that he exists. But yet I choose to believe in him. I figure the alternative pretty much sucks. That's all I say on that subject..
W
The last time it was rumored that an ex King was going into ownership or even management, Kenny Smith, it was widely ripped here on the forum. So much for our history there.
Teams hire people with championship backgrounds or those who currently have helped turn around a franchise.
76ers hire the assistant from SA....I guess they should have hired someone from their rich history like Barkley?
Celtics hired Havlicek....wait, it was Cowens....wait it was a college coach? What morons!
Warriors hired a Knick in Jackson and it seemed to be an ok move....no?
First you rip Vivek for ignoring our history in hiring Ex-Warriors and Lakers, then you rip him if or when the Peja jersey is retired. I just don't get it.
The last time it was rumored that an ex King was going into ownership or even management, Kenny Smith, it was widely ripped here on the forum. So much for our history there.
Teams hire people with championship backgrounds or those who currently have helped turn around a franchise.
76ers hire the assistant from SA....I guess they should have hired someone from their rich history like Barkley?
Celtics hired Havlicek....wait, it was Cowens....wait it was a college coach? What morons!
Warriors hired a Knick in Jackson and it seemed to be an ok move....no?
First you rip Vivek for ignoring our history in hiring Ex-Warriors and Lakers, then you rip him if or when the Peja jersey is retired. I just don't get it.
Possible reason Webber hasn't been publicly involved:
From http://nba.si.com/2013/09/23/shaquille-oneal-kings-owner/?xid=nl_siextra
From http://nba.si.com/2013/09/23/shaquille-oneal-kings-owner/?xid=nl_siextra
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Well, were not talking about the US versus Iran here. I personally don't see Shaq as an enemy, but I can see where some might. I agree with you, and I have my doubts about how much Shaq can help Cuz with his game as well. But I'll wait and reserve judgement on that one. Most great athletes are terrible teachers. Mainly, because it came easy for them, and they can't understand why you can't do what they tell you to do. Not realizing that you simply don't have their abilities. Anyway, I'll welcome him to the team and see how it plays out.
Not sure why your think retiring Peja's jersey is a gimmick unless you don't think he accomplished enough to warrant it. Which is debatable! But it is the new group embracing the past history of the Kings, of which Peja was a part. He did manage to leave a footprint while in the company of bigger personalities. But as I said, its certainly debatable.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That is
Whatever the merits/demerits of Shaq as owner, the above is a highly confused argument in defense. I can only assume you are intentionally conflating vastly different standards for coaches/GMs vs. symbolic owners, rivals vs. neutral parties, and short time long ago players who have shown little affection for a city over the years vs. beloved icons.
Kenny Smith, who btw is little more than an old name for us and does not think or consider himself a Sacramento King, was objected to on grounds of likely incompetence because he was suggested as a GM, a role requiring knowledge/competence. If he bought into the Kings tomorrow as a minority owner I'm sure he would be welcomed, although so far as I know he's made no real attempt to stay connected to the Sacto market over the years.
Meanwhile Chris Webber being announced as head coach would be....? I mean maybe you squint and go ok. But response would be decidedly mixed given his lack of record/having proven anything there.
On the other hand, Chris Webber as symbolic owner is a powerful symbol and reaffirmation of the Kings family/history. A point so obvious I can only assume it was intentionally missed.
P.S. The issue of retiring Peja's jersey is that its unfortunately a move you would make as a new owner putting your ignorance of the history of the team you just bought on display. You want to make a splash, to leave your own mark, and in your eagerness (and likely with the aid of some opportunistic Peja fans whispering in your ear at a sensed opportunity) misinterpret the history of a team you did not follow closely and misbestow an honor, watering down the honor previously given to the icons that did earn it, and opening questions up for a variety of other players who might want to claim it themselves one day. It would feel a lot less pandering if it happened in a couple of years after Vivek had settled in and absorbed some of the culture/knowledge of the history of his new toy. Now it feels like a newbie meddling in things he doesn't yet understand.
Whatever the merits/demerits of Shaq as owner, the above is a highly confused argument in defense. I can only assume you are intentionally conflating vastly different standards for coaches/GMs vs. symbolic owners, rivals vs. neutral parties, and short time long ago players who have shown little affection for a city over the years vs. beloved icons.
Kenny Smith, who btw is little more than an old name for us and does not think or consider himself a Sacramento King, was objected to on grounds of likely incompetence because he was suggested as a GM, a role requiring knowledge/competence. If he bought into the Kings tomorrow as a minority owner I'm sure he would be welcomed, although so far as I know he's made no real attempt to stay connected to the Sacto market over the years.
Meanwhile Chris Webber being announced as head coach would be....? I mean maybe you squint and go ok. But response would be decidedly mixed given his lack of record/having proven anything there.
On the other hand, Chris Webber as symbolic owner is a powerful symbol and reaffirmation of the Kings family/history. A point so obvious I can only assume it was intentionally missed.
P.S. The issue of retiring Peja's jersey is that its unfortunately a move you would make as a new owner putting your ignorance of the history of the team you just bought on display. You want to make a splash, to leave your own mark, and in your eagerness (and likely with the aid of some opportunistic Peja fans whispering in your ear at a sensed opportunity) misinterpret the history of a team you did not follow closely and misbestow an honor, watering down the honor previously given to the icons that did earn it, and opening questions up for a variety of other players who might want to claim it themselves one day. It would feel a lot less pandering if it happened in a couple of years after Vivek had settled in and absorbed some of the culture/knowledge of the history of his new toy. Now it feels like a newbie meddling in things he doesn't yet understand.
OR it just might be that such a deal would be a breach of his current contracts. See the link I posted above...
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Th
The argument against that would be that they had Magic on there for years as a part time owner.
The argument against that would be that they had Magic on there for years as a part time owner.
And the rebuttal to that is that it was MAGIC JOHNSON. Anyway, I'm not a lawyer arguing a case. I was just presenting a possible response to your early comment. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I love Peja, but he's not at the level of a player who should be getting his jersey retired. But, if it happened a few years down the road I can somewhat understand.
However, rumors about Peja's jersey getting retired came out only 2-3 months after Vivek bought the team. That to me is a blatant marketing gimmick. Appeared to be used to drum up excitement yet ownership's judgement was off on that one. I love Bibby too but if they came in and within a couple months in the middle of a dead off season and leaked they would retire his jersey, I'd see through that as well.
I don't need artificial gimmicks to be a fan of this team. And given Vivek keeps saying we have the best fans in the league, he should cease with the marketing gimmicks which is exactly what Shaq is. If the priority was a big name player who could truly help develop a guy like Cuz, there's others who'd have been better hires. But Vivek himself admits it's about partly name recognition and being a global brand. How about not using an enemy to achieve that? And btw, I use enemy it sports terms, not political.
If you go back and check, you'll see the ONLY reasons this rumor even came about was because of a tweet from Ben McLemore about his choice of jersey #. All the rest, unless memory fails, is typical fanboard hyperbole and speculation.
And BTW? McLemore has kept #16.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Doesn't matter how it came out. If there's truth to it, the thought process is clear, which would be a marketing gimmick.
What you call hyperbole and speculation I call connecting the dots.
63royals
Bench
Shaq spent his whole career as a beneficiary of the NBA's double standard when it comes to officiating. The Kings (and the Royals before that), as a small market franchise, have nearly always been on the other side of that fence. Do I think Shaq can help DMC with his game? No -- he can't very well teach him how to be bigger than everyone else and shove people out of the way because the refs will let him get away with it.
I have no illusions about Shaq spending a lot of time on this "mentoring." However, if Shaq can help DMC become anointed as the next big thing among NBA centers, he could start getting some of those star calls. THAT would help the team. As small market team, we can use all the help we can get.
I have no illusions about Shaq spending a lot of time on this "mentoring." However, if Shaq can help DMC become anointed as the next big thing among NBA centers, he could start getting some of those star calls. THAT would help the team. As small market team, we can use all the help we can get.
Krunker
Northernmost Kings Fan
What, no Dr. Shaq?
Gary
All-Star
I have a feeling that Webber was part of a different group that wanted to purchase the Kings. Maybe that Pilipino group? I think that's why he's not involved with this group.
nebs
Starter
jcwkings
All-Star
One of the all time great C's who is a bit of a moron buys a minority share on the Kings? Nothing negative here, he won't be making any big decisions, if anything it gives the franchise an ambassador on the national level, potentially helps us grow as a free agent destination having a big name like him as a representative.
HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
I understand how some long time fans like Brick can feel a bit betrayed by number of ex-players who are not former Kings, that are becoming a part of the new organization. But this appears to be about PR, not just National PR but INTERNATIONAL PR. What Randive is doing is building an organization to launch a 21st century marketing campaign on several levels simultaneously. I can criticize some of the personal decisions that have been made in the operations department, but the Kings relaunch as a product campaign has been nearly flawless.
