Webber on Doug Christie trade - a cautionary tale?

VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
I just finished watching last night's episode of "Open Court." One segment dealt with asking the guys how much being traded had impacted them.

When it was Webber's turn, he showed more emotion than I've seen from him in a long time. And it wasn't about HIS trade. It was about Doug Christie. Here's what he had to say:

"The trade that hurt me the most is when I wasn’t traded - it’s when Doug Christie was traded. I’ll tell you why. Maybe you guys have gone through this...A lot of times the guys on the team know the players way better than coaches and the management. And I knew that if it wasn’t for Doug Christie, we wouldn’t get far. Not because of on-the-court anything - we needed to pay him just for how hard he practiced. He held us to a different standard, he and Mateen Cleaves.

Doug Christie got traded and that trade affected me more than me getting traded because I knew in my head although I didn’t want to admit it that that was my last time ever to compete for a championship. We had just come off playing the Lakers, he had fought Rick Fox, we had them, we ready to go. He’s a double, he double-teams, he’s heart and soul so any other flashy stuff on our team, okay we can do that but he’s the heart and soul of the defense and he’s the one there guarding Kobe, 44 right in his face. Kobe can give it to him but every play he’s there. And when he got traded, and we didn’t have a ... we had been building all year, I’m passing out books, we’re talking, we’re in such a mind frame, we’re a family. So that if anything happens to this fragile relationship, we’re done. And when management traded him, and didn’t tell us why, didn’t speak to us and didn’t bring us in the room like they did with everything else. We didn’t address our brother getting gone, it was over.

He made me commit to staying here, fighting in this little small town with no black people. This is weird to me. I got to see how great, how wonderful the people are in Sacramento. You know, he helped tie me to that community. I will love Sacramento forever because he helped tie us together. You know, when you see those fans with those cowbells, it was like he was one of them. It was just that sincerity.

When one guy leaves the team it can be that damaging because it takes so much out of everybody else."

I think we can draw some parallels from what has happened recently. What really stood out to me is Webb's comment about management making the trade and then not telling the players why, or making any kind of explanation.

If you get a chance to watch the 6-15-15 episode, do it.
 
Yeah, that was a back breaker for me as a fan too. As much as I loved Webber and Peja and Vlade and Mike and Jason while he was here and the bench guys... Doug Christie was my favorite player of that era. He was the "do everything else" guy that helped our stars become stars. But it's interesting to hear how much effect that could have on the team's psyche, watching one of your teammates get traded without an explanation. And there's really no reason for it -- the players aren't dumb, they understand what the deal is. If you feel like you need to get some value in return before his body breaks down, the players may disagree, but at least have the respect to tell them your reasons. That's what being a team means -- everybody on the same page, working toward the same goal. If you don't have that, you're not going to win.
 
hrdboild said:
Yeah, that was a back breaker for me as a fan too. As much as I loved Webber and Peja and Vlade and Mike and Jason while he was here and the bench guys... Doug Christie was my favorite player of that era. He was the "do everything else" guy that helped our stars become stars. But it's interesting to hear how much effect that could have on the team's psyche, watching one of your teammates get traded without an explanation. And there's really no reason for it -- the players aren't dumb, they understand what the deal is. If you feel like you need to get some value in return before his body breaks down, the players may disagree, but at least have the respect to tell them your reasons. That's what being a team means -- everybody on the same page, working toward the same goal. If you don't have that, you're not going to win.
Click to expand...
If I recall correctly (dangerous idea), Christie DID break down after being traded. Petrie received A LOT of praise on this board about his ability to unload players before they lost their value/ability especially in terms of the Christie trade. Petrie was golden in those days. Petrie didn't throw his players under the bus instead used the motto, 'A King until not a king.' Hindsight is 20/20.
 
Yeah, um thing was:

It was a good trade. :D

Don't doubt Webb's perspective on Doug's importance. However, we were done, or management had so decreed. We had just let Vlade go, and that was probably wise too. He was finished within a year. We dumped Doug and got back Mobley, and Doug was fading fast and out of the league in a year or two too. And then a few weeks later we traded Webb. So in the context of what was going on, trading Christie was no big deal, and we got a decent return...talentwise.
 
Bricklayer said:
Yeah, um thing was:

It was a good trade. :D

Don't doubt Webb's perspective on Doug's importance. However, we were done, or management had so decreed. We had just let Vlade go, and that was probably wise too. He was finished within a year. We dumped Doug and got back Mobley, and Doug was fading fast and out of the league in a year or two too. And then a few weeks later we traded Webb. So in the context of what was going on, trading Christie was no big deal, and we got a decent return...talentwise.
Click to expand...

Except it wasn't really a rebuild. It was a move that made the team a retread.

It was good talent in return for a player that was about to break down physically, but not a forward thinking move.
 
I'm surprised about this account from Webb, as well - thanks for putting it up here, VF21 (did you manually transcribe all that?!)
It shows 2 things clearly:

1) How much damage a front office can do if they treat their players like automatons, don't communicate the reasons for critical personnel decisions, and discount the connections the team makes amongst each other. (sound familiar?)

2) How off-base Webber is from a basketball perspective.
Christie only played in 35 more games over the following 2 1/2 seasons, and was in year 4 of a seven year, $49 million contract at the time of being traded (for a player who was expiring and 5 years younger).
That trade probably is one of the more lopsided trades in Kings history, all things considered.

And I am one of Doug Christie's biggest fans - he was my favorite King then, and I also hope he is involved again with the team soon - his analysis and knowledge of the game FAR exceeds Webber's, as this account proves.
 
Bricklayer said:
Yeah, um thing was:

It was a good trade. :D

Don't doubt Webb's perspective on Doug's importance. However, we were done, or management had so decreed. We had just let Vlade go, and that was probably wise too. He was finished within a year. We dumped Doug and got back Mobley, and Doug was fading fast and out of the league in a year or two too. And then a few weeks later we traded Webb. So in the context of what was going on, trading Christie was no big deal, and we got a decent return...talentwise.
Click to expand...

I don't see much point revisiting the merits of the trade in retrospect. Had we started the rebuild sooner, a lot of things would have happened differently. Maybe we would be in the playoffs again by now, but probably we don't have DeMarcus Cousins. Even if I know why the trade was necessary (and Doug had been hobbled by Plantar Faciitis that whole season), it still hurt when my favorite player was traded just like it hurt when Vlade returned to the Lakers for his last year. Every step of the dismantling was an acknowledgment that 2002 was as close as we were ever going to get for a long time.
 
IfAt1st said:
I'm surprised about this account from Webb, as well - thanks for putting it up here, VF21 (did you manually transcribe all that?!)
It shows 2 things clearly:

1) How much damage a front office can do if they treat their players like automatons, don't communicate the reasons for critical personnel decisions, and discount the connections the team makes amongst each other. (sound familiar?)

2) How off-base Webber is from a basketball perspective.
Christie only played in 35 more games over the following 2 1/2 seasons, and was in year 4 of a seven year, $49 million contract at the time of being traded (for a player who was expiring and 5 years younger).
That trade probably is one of the more lopsided trades in Kings history, all things considered.

And I am one of Doug Christie's biggest fans - he was my favorite King then, and I also hope he is involved again with the team soon - his analysis and knowledge of the game FAR exceeds Webber's, as this account proves.
Click to expand...

Yes, I transcribed it myself. :)

As far as #2 is concerned, I don't think we can judge how Doug played for other teams as an indication of how he would have played for us. It's been common knowledge that being traded pretty much broke his heart. I think Webber was well aware of that, and if you get a chance to see the broadcast, you can judge by the look on his face.
 
20529435-hay-bales-wrapped-in-black-plastic-in-a-harvested-field.jpg
 
Iced Espresso said:
Back in 2002 time named us the most diverse city in America.

Sometimes people see what they want to see.

http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,340694,00.html
Click to expand...

[Pedant Mode engaged]

What does diversity have to do with black people? According to the article you linked to, African Americans were the fourth most populous race in the Sacramento area in 2002; in most major US cities, they are the second most populous race. Webber didn't say that there were too many white people, he said that there weren't enough black people, and those statistics don't really dispute that.

[/End Pedant Mode]

If you go from someplace where the racial composition is 30 percent African Americans (Detroit metro, it was much higher in the city proper), to someplace where it's 45 percent (Oakland), to someplace where it's 60 percent (Washington DC), then you're going to look at a city where it's 16 percent and, relative to your experience, you're probably going to say something like, "Son of a *****, they don't have any black people!" And, relative to your experience, you're not going to be wrong.
 
That was a very good trade. We dumped DC just before he broke down with several big years left on his deal, knowing that Mobley probably wasn't going to be a great fit but would clear that salary as a free agent when he left.

And it makes sense the players weren't told why. Probably wouldn't be great to say, "Doug's done. Unless Mobley plays amazing and wants to resign here, we are dumping salary to start over. And we would have started over until our meat head owners lost their nest egg with bad investments while being over leveraged.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
[Pedant Mode engaged]

What does diversity have to do with black people? According to the article you linked to, African Americans were the fourth most populous race in the Sacramento area in 2002; in most major US cities, they are the second most populous race. Webber didn't say that there were too many white people, he said that there weren't enough black people, and those statistics don't really dispute that.

[/End Pedant Mode]

If you go from someplace where the racial composition is 30 percent African Americans (Detroit metro, it was much higher in the city proper), to someplace where it's 45 percent (Oakland), to someplace where it's 60 percent (Washington DC), then you're going to look at a city where it's 16 percent and, relative to your experience, you're probably going to say something like, "Son of a *****, they don't have any black people!" And, relative to your experience, you're not going to be wrong.
Click to expand...

I don't think so, I've lived in other countries for a couple of years, and not even speaking the native language I'd of never said I was the only one, even if a couple percent were Americans.
 
Now who's being pedantic? :p

I, too, have lived in other countries, although not recently. I think that it's generally understood, when speaking to other Americans, that hyperbole is involved in a statement like that, and that you don't literally mean that you're the only black person. I don't think it's reasonable to criticize an American, speaking to other Americans about a relatively unique American experience, for using idioms that are uncommon outside of America.

And, like I said before, it's all relative: if you go from someplace where two out of every three people are black to someplace where only one out of every five people are black, that's going to look, from that point of view, like there aren't any black people.
 
swisshh said:
Except it wasn't really a rebuild. It was a move that made the team a retread.

It was good talent in return for a player that was about to break down physically, but not a forward thinking move.
Click to expand...

I think if left in the hands of Petrie, the long term future might have looked different. But all this coincided with the beginning of the end for the Maloofs, who at that moment, were more interested in selling season tickets for immediate money results, than they were in the future of the team as for as competitiveness went. We'll never know what might have been if Petrie had a free hand.
 
Let's also realize where his time was spent here too. Granite Bay, Natomas and probably in downtown sac to a certain extent. None of those places are even close to having a large black population. The majority of the black population in this area is in South Sacramento and Del Paso Heights. Two places Chris Weber would have no reason to go to.
 
No reason at all? Not even if he were looking for soul food? ;)

How many black barber shops do you reckon are in Granite Bay?
 
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