[Trade] Warriors have obvious Jonathan Kuminga trade demand after latest Kings reports

[ESP47]

I'd be going for Kuminga and Moody if they'd have to move Moody.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Come on ….. if you have reached the point an agent can force you to give up all you gave up for a highly negative LaVine contract you might as well fold up shop and go home.

Even the Kings are not that ****ing bad. They have LaVine because Vivek wanted a “star” player they could market. They were losing Fox and Vivek has the patience of a June bug.

Maybe it is simply down to him wanting a player that isn't just a completely mediocre guy on a terrible contract like what SA was offering. I still think based on what Peja has said (no reason to lie) there is more to the story, but fact is Fox f'd us over along with his agent so there's still truth to it.

I would scream bloody murder if we were paying Devin Vassell until 2029 along with Keldon Johnson or Zach Collins a combined 45 million this season. At least Zach's contract has an end in sight and he is a good player.

Pretty clear Fox/Paul and the Spurs had agreed to this extension probably long before it was legal to do so which is why they nuked the market.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Russ can happen but it better be a minimum deal. This is the same as it was going to be whatever moves the Kings made. Either the old guard wins games or goes somewhere else sooner than later hopefully. Win or rebuild. Done. Not sure why this is overly complicated for the Kings every time they do anything. Too many people trying to justify their worth as a basketball mind, lol. Ripping off a freaking Band-Aid doesn't require a doctorate.

You’re ok with Russ taking carters minutes on a minimum deal? He isn’t coming hear to “mentor” and sit on the bench while kicking fans out

 

[The_Jamal]

Maybe it is simply down to him wanting a player that isn't just a completely mediocre guy on a terrible contract like what SA was offering. I still think based on what Peja has said (no reason to lie) there is more to the story, but fact is Fox f'd us over along with his agent so there's still truth to it.

I would scream bloody murder if we were paying Devin Vassell until 2029 along with Keldon Johnson or Zach Collins a combined 45 million this season. At least Zach's contract has an end in sight and he is a good player.

Pretty clear Fox/Paul and the Spurs had agreed to this extension probably long before it was legal to do so which is why they nuked the market.

I think it's likely that they had a hand-shake deal that if Fox wouldn't get the All-NBA nod with the Kings, he'd force his way out to SAS.

LaVine might not have a market this summer, but I think as a massive expiring, there's always potential to get involved in something. Even if it's "salary" based and he's just used as a contract. As an added bonus, he's someone that can actually help a team.

There's also just a chance we're a lot better than everyone thinks and LaVine/Domas just click as an awesome offensive duo. I don't think it's super likely, but it's certainly a better chance than eating Keldon or Vassell.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

There's also just a chance we're a lot better than everyone thinks and LaVine/Domas just click as an awesome offensive duo. I don't think it's super likely, but it's certainly a better chance than eating Keldon or Vassell.

It's not super likely but if we had defensive studs around them it's not out of the realm of possibility. The bigger problem is just that OKC, with Houston and SAS on the come up and playing in the same division as some of the league's golden childs means even if we're a very good team capable of contending for a top 3 spot in the east we could still have a 7 or 8 seed as a ceiling in the West.

 

[sactowndog]

Maybe it is simply down to him wanting a player that isn't just a completely mediocre guy on a terrible contract like what SA was offering. I still think based on what Peja has said (no reason to lie) there is more to the story, but fact is Fox f'd us over along with his agent so there's still truth to it.

I would scream bloody murder if we were paying Devin Vassell until 2029 along with Keldon Johnson or Zach Collins a combined 45 million this season. At least Zach's contract has an end in sight and he is a good player.

Pretty clear Fox/Paul and the Spurs had agreed to this extension probably long before it was legal to do so which is why they nuked the market.

I would have preferred to free up cap space by maybe flipping Collins and Huerter and keeping the Chicago first that got routed to Chicago for Zach. Had we done that we could have signed Kuminga out right. But Vivek has to go all in for the 10th seed every ****ing year.

Dude has serious Banty Rooster Complex.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I would have preferred to free up cap space by maybe flipping Collins and Huerter and keeping the Chicago first that got routed to Chicago for Zach. Had we done that we could have signed Kuminga out right. But Vivek has to go all in for the 10th seed every ****ing year.

Dude has serious Banty Rooster Complex.

I mean most people who have looked at your proposals don't see a way for us to have traded Fox and freed up space because ironically San Antonio entered cap hell when they took on HB for us.

 

[SacTownKid]

You’re ok with Russ taking carters minutes on a minimum deal? He isn’t coming hear to “mentor” and sit on the bench while kicking fans out

I'm ok with what the supposed mantra was with this being a "gap year". Carter has time, the young guys have time. The vets however should not. If by the deadline this isn't looking like a contender then they better start transitioning. That's up to Perry to be smart and honest at this point. Vlade and past GM's have kind of been wishy washy with players they've signed or brought on and it's created distrust. As long as Perry doesn't gamble with the Kings ability to rebuild considering that's the odds on favorite if anyone's taking bets and the damage is restricted to this year or the next then that's way better than doing something drastic that doesn't change a darn thing except extend of the possible suffering. Signing someone like Westbrook to a 1 year min. is nothing. You can send him on his merry way if it doesn't work. Anything more than that would be stupid however.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I would have preferred to free up cap space by maybe flipping Collins and Huerter and keeping the Chicago first that got routed to Chicago for Zach. Had we done that we could have signed Kuminga out right.

No chance.

Even if we had flipped Collins and Huerter into cap space for literally zero dollars (no chance), we would still have been stuck with Vassell. Coupled with the JV salary dump, we would still have had only about $12M in cap space, not enough to sign Kuminga outright.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

I'm ok with what the supposed mantra was with this being a "gap year". Carter has time, the young guys have time. The vets however should not. If by the deadline this isn't looking like a contender then they better start transitioning. That's up to Perry to be smart and honest at this point. Vlade and past GM's have kind of been wishy washy with players they've signed or brought on and it's created distrust. As long as Perry doesn't gamble with the Kings ability to rebuild considering that's the odds on favorite if anyone's taking bets and the damage is restricted to this year or the next then that's way better than doing something drastic that doesn't change a darn thing except extend of the possible suffering. Signing someone like Westbrook to a 1 year min. is nothing. You can send him on his merry way if it doesn't work. Anything more than that would be stupid however.

Carter was an older rookie in the lottery now going into his second season zero reason for him not to be getting major minuets catering to this gap year bull crap

 

[The_Jamal]

No chance.

Even if we had flipped Collins and Huerter into cap space for literally zero dollars (no chance), we would still have been stuck with Vassell. Coupled with the JV salary dump, we would still have had only about $12M in cap space, not enough to sign Kuminga outright.

Ah, you let him off the hook. I wanted him to explain how we would have had the "cap" to do so. Which, of course, was impossible, but he kept acting like it was a certainty for some reason?

 

[The_Jamal]

It's not super likely but if we had defensive studs around them it's not out of the realm of possibility. The bigger problem is just that OKC, with Houston and SAS on the come up and playing in the same division as some of the league's golden childs means even if we're a very good team capable of contending for a top 3 spot in the east we could still have a 7 or 8 seed as a ceiling in the West.

Need to commit to A LOT of Keon+Keegan on the floor together. The offensive horses are still here, but I want literally like 1800+ minutes of those guys on the floor together to anchor the defense. Carter/Nique/IJ won't have the same roles, but I think all 3 guys can improve the defense too.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

Carter was an older rookie in the lottery now going into his second season zero reason for him not to be getting major minuets catering to this gap year bull crap

I don't want Westbrook on the team either, but I also wouldn't blame the Kings for not wanting to give Carter major minutes. Right now he doesn't look like an NBA player. That being said I personally wouldn't hate Carter being in the gym practicing with Westbrook. Two things in particular that drive me nuts about Carter are his often weak, floaty passes and how he brings the ball up the court. I think it's because of his handles that he'll take too long getting the ball passed half court for no reason or hesitate and dribble into dumb spots as soon as he's pressed. Say what you will about Westbrook, but his passes are always aggressive and he's learned how to deal with defenders and still fly down the court despite not possessing the best handle either.

 

[Warhawk]

You and I are usually in lock-step on most Kings-related issues, but here I disagree. The Spurs did take advantage of the Kings' impatience with Fox's trade demand. I don't know if it was Monte or Vivek or some other voice within the franchise, but giving Fox what he wanted and getting back LaVine in return (along with all the roster imbalance issues that arrived with him) really f***ed the Kings' roster flexibility moving forward. It was a bad trade then. It remains a bad trade now, even with LaVine rehabbing his value somewhat.

I said at the time that there was no rush to trade Fox and I still believe I was right. The season was lost as soon as the trade demand was in the open, so the Kings should have held fire until the off-season. Had they done so, one of two things would have happened. Either the Spurs would have been more willing to part with a young asset, given the fact that they lucked into the second pick and drafted Dylan Harper, or they would have decided that they had no need for De'Aaron Fox, which would have forced Rich Paul to open the door to other possible suitors.

As it stood, the Spurs got to take a "Why not?" flier on Fox without having to give up anything substantial in return. Somebody blinked on the Kings' side, and they didn't need to do so. Was LaVine not going to be available come summer time? Was salvaging last season so crucial that the Kings needed to sacrifice future flexibility to bring LaVine on board immediately? I just don't see a world in which they're worse off had they waited until the off-season, when more options may have opened up. They should have been more patient in my view.

While I usually agree with you, I think that trading Fox when we did was the right move. He was becoming a major distraction to the franchise and if we didn't trade him then we're sitting right now with "mystery injury" Fox demanding a trade AND a max extension. LaVine's contract is much more tolerable than what Fox was demanding (and just got because: Klutch).

Sometimes you really can't win. I think that's where we were. And if that's the case, get out early if you can.

 

[sactowndog]

No chance.

Even if we had flipped Collins and Huerter into cap space for literally zero dollars (no chance), we would still have been stuck with Vassell. Coupled with the JV salary dump, we would still have had only about $12M in cap space, not enough to sign Kuminga outright.

Vassell wasn’t in the trade. Let’s keep it to the players in the trade shall we?

• Sidy Cissoko. - would be gone
• Zach Collins - 1 year 18M
• Tre Jones - would be gone.
• Kevin Huerter - 1 year 18M

So we would be at $36M

Plus the salary slot for the Bulls 1st round pick. That assumes we could not route either player to another team.

This year we would have
Collins 18M
Huerter 18M

With 113M in other salary commitments

Which would put us at $149M with a 154M cap. Dumping 1 year of Collins or Huerter would have been cheaper than what we have proposed sending to the Warriors for Kuminga.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Vassell wasn’t in the trade. Let’s keep it to the players in the trade shall we?

• Sidy Cissoko. - would be gone
• Zach Collins - 1 year 18M
• Tre Jones - would be gone.
• Kevin Huerter - 1 year 18M

You can't possibly have meant this. Please try again.

 

[Tetsujin]

Vassell wasn’t in the trade. Let’s keep it to the players in the trade shall we?

• Sidy Cissoko. - would be gone
• Zach Collins - 1 year 18M
• Tre Jones - would be gone.
• Kevin Huerter - 1 year 18M

So we would be at $36M

Plus the salary slot for the Bulls 1st round pick. That assumes we could not route either player to another team.

This year we would have
Collins 18M
Huerter 18M

With 113M in other salary commitments

Which would put us at $149M with a 154M cap. Dumping 1 year of Collins or Huerter would have been cheaper than what we have proposed sending to the Warriors for Kuminga.

sources on this? Salary dumping is ridiculously hard under the new CBA with so many teams over the cap.

 

[Tetsujin]

You can't possibly have meant this. Please try again.

If I were the Kings I would have merely traded De’Aaron Fox for a guy already on the roster.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Plus the salary slot for the Bulls 1st round pick. That assumes we could not route either player to another team.

This year we would have
Collins 18M
Huerter 18M

With 113M in other salary commitments

Which would put us at $149M with a 154M cap. Dumping 1 year of Collins or Huerter would have been cheaper than what we have proposed sending to the Warriors for Kuminga.

You're going to have explain your trade, because I have no clue what players were supposedly going where. At any rate it doesn't look like any proposal we saw floated before the trade actually happened.

That said, Chicago's pick is $5.4M this year, so you're looking at - with your numbers - $154M on a $154M salary cap. So then you have to find a way to clear $20M in salary while obeying trade rules.

And we wouldn't have LaVine, who is - you'll disagree - a good player.

 

[Tetsujin]

You're going to have explain your trade, because I have no clue what players were supposedly going where. At any rate it doesn't look like any proposal we saw floated before the trade actually happened.

That said, Chicago's pick is $5.4M this year, so you're looking at - with your numbers - $154M on a $154M salary cap. So then you have to find a way to clear $20M in salary while obeying trade rules.

And we wouldn't have LaVine, who is - you'll disagree - a good player.

i think it’s Fox for Collins/Tre Jones/Sidy/the picks we got in the deal but he’s completely ignoring the fact that that wouldn’t work as a trade under the cap rules, hence why we’d been including Vassell/ Keldon in all the mock trades that were happening at the time

 

[sactowndog]

You can't possibly have meant this. Please try again.

As of this some Sportrac has Huerter with 1 year left at 18M. Do you have another source?

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/chicago-bulls/yearly

 

[sactowndog]

i think it’s Fox for Collins/Tre Jones/Sidy/the picks we got in the deal but he’s completely ignoring the fact that that wouldn’t work as a trade under the cap rules, hence why we’d been including Vassell/ Keldon in all the mock trades that were happening at the time

Correct so why doesn’t it work? San Antonio sends out the same and LaVine is more than what we have.

 

[sactowndog]

You're going to have explain your trade, because I have no clue what players were supposedly going where. At any rate it doesn't look like any proposal we saw floated before the trade actually happened.

That said, Chicago's pick is $5.4M this year, so you're looking at - with your numbers - $154M on a $154M salary cap. So then you have to find a way to clear $20M in salary while obeying trade rules.

And we wouldn't have LaVine, who is - you'll disagree - a good player.

My trade was you simply cut out Chicago with the assets going to Chicago going to us. If that doesn’t work then my trade wouldn’t work.

LaVine is a good shooter but he makes our defense worse and doesn’t pair well with Sabonis who is not a defensive center. At his contract LaVine is a negative asset.

 

[The_Jamal]

My trade was you simply cut out Chicago with the assets going to Chicago going to us. If that doesn’t work then my trade wouldn’t work.

LaVine is a good shooter but he makes our defense worse and doesn’t pair well with Sabonis who is not a defensive center. At his contract LaVine is a negative asset.

We cannot trade Fox for Huerter, since Huerter was on our team. So you're trying to send out about 54 mil and take back like 28ish.

Can't be sure, but seems like that's not legal