[Trade] Warriors have obvious Jonathan Kuminga trade demand after latest Kings reports

[The_Jamal]

When you gave a team a chance to swap lunches you essentially gave away at least the chance. This puts pressure on the Kings during that time frame. That's inarguable. Depending on what happens with Sac in the next two years it puts them in a clear and dangerous path PERIOD. Now the Kings need to see this current construction blow some minds or really score in the next two drafts. Maybe a big trade can happen, probably not.

Also, just to add, obviously the Fox thing partly messed things up. Lets ask though, if the Kings saw Fox off the team by the deadline do they make that DeRozan trade? I don't think so.

No of course not. The whole thesis on derozan was a talent add to Fox and Domas to boost us past beam team 1.0. Especially when we just ran out of offensive firepower in the playoffs.

He was never about fit, it was a pure talent grab and just hope to overwhelm teams that way. I stand by it being a good move, with rhe obvious caveat thst we didnt expect Fox to stab the franchise in the back

 

[SacTownKid]

No of course not. The whole thesis on derozan was a talent add to Fox and Domas to boost us past beam team 1.0. Especially when we just ran out of offensive firepower in the playoffs.

He was never about fit, it was a pure talent grab and just hope to overwhelm teams that way. I stand by it being a good move, with rhe obvious caveat thst we didnt expect Fox to stab the franchise in the back

Exactly, and why I think there should be trepidation at any move made mostly as a pure talent grab right now unless that talent is a guaranteed superstud because the usual result for teams like this is entirely hit or miss. If the Kings gambled strictly by signing someone like that, that's OK, as said before, the Kings haven't done the needed preparation the last few seasons by building trade assets or cap space to capitalize and not get damaged in the process and have already paid the price once. This is usually the time when a team tries to put themselves in a better position to not get the screws again if the opportunity should arise, not more cranks on the same slot machine. Kuminga is definitely higher up the list than the usual targets since age wise he might still have some untapped potential, but this is why this scenario is getting murky.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

His reaction to the Westbrook rumors haha

 

[BuddyBuckets]

How does this feel like Monte again if the deal hasn’t happened? Just cuz someone wrote down the fact that the Warriors want it to happen? Yes i bet they want a lot of things.

I mean does this off-season not feel like a Monte off-season? What exactly have we done?
We overpaid for Schroder, a mid aging guard.
We are still massively guard heavy.
We actually lost a few of the bigs we had in the rotation- Lyles, JVal, and LaRavia. The replacement so far has been Drew Eubanks and Saric.
The talk now is trading a future 1st for Kuminga. And then dumping our recent lotto pick to sign 36-37 year old Russ Westbrook.
Didn't trade DeRozan or LaVine.

I want to give Perry a chance. But so far this off-season is a disaster even if the draft was okay. Just type out the positions (and this is me being generous).
PG - Schroder
SG - LaVine, Keon, Monk, Carter, Davis
SF - Demar, Nique, McDermott
PF - Keegan, Jones, Saric
C - Sabonis, Eubanks, Maxime

Guard heavy, massively undersized. Not a single proven playable talent up front behind Keegan/Sabonis.

 

[SacKings123]

I mean does this off-season not feel like a Monte off-season? What exactly have we done?
We overpaid for Schroder, a mid aging guard.
We are still massively guard heavy.
We actually lost a few of the bigs we had in the rotation- Lyles, JVal, and LaRavia. The replacement so far has been Drew Eubanks and Saric.
The talk now is trading a future 1st for Kuminga. And then dumping our recent lotto pick to sign 36-37 year old Russ Westbrook.
Didn't trade DeRozan or LaVine.

I want to give Perry a chance. But so far this off-season is a disaster even if the draft was okay. Just type out the positions (and this is me being generous).
PG - Schroder
SG - LaVine, Keon, Monk, Carter, Davis
SF - Demar, Nique, McDermott
PF - Keegan, Jones, Saric
C - Sabonis, Eubanks, Maxime

Guard heavy, massively undersized. Not a single proven playable talent up front behind Keegan/Sabonis.

I would agree that it definitely feels like a Monte off-season. I don’t think it’s a disaster YET.

I feel like it would become a disaster if we upped our offer for Kuminga to an unprotected pick (lowest I’d go is top 4 protected, happy to take a swing if top 8 protected)

Signing Westbrook makes absolutely no sense to me unless you are doing it to teach Devin Carter how to be a pro

 

[Joshyjosh31]

I mean does this off-season not feel like a Monte off-season? What exactly have we done?
We overpaid for Schroder, a mid aging guard.
We are still massively guard heavy.
We actually lost a few of the bigs we had in the rotation- Lyles, JVal, and LaRavia. The replacement so far has been Drew Eubanks and Saric.
The talk now is trading a future 1st for Kuminga. And then dumping our recent lotto pick to sign 36-37 year old Russ Westbrook.
Didn't trade DeRozan or LaVine.

I want to give Perry a chance. But so far this off-season is a disaster even if the draft was okay. Just type out the positions (and this is me being generous).
PG - Schroder
SG - LaVine, Keon, Monk, Carter, Davis
SF - Demar, Nique, McDermott
PF - Keegan, Jones, Saric
C - Sabonis, Eubanks, Maxime

Guard heavy, massively undersized. Not a single proven playable talent up front behind Keegan/Sabonis.

How does a team heading into the offseason needing size and athleticism get worse at both

 

[SacKings123]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1952392887926211070

If true, I honestly think this is a good move for all parties. We haven’t made a trade with the Warriors in years and I hope everyone can see why.

They were never clear on what they wanted and once we were close, they kept on trying to increase the asking price

You cannot trade with greedy snakes. I’m telling you

 

[pdxKingsFan]

came to post that. I think it's still negotiating tactics but they're going to lose him for nothing down the road.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Perry better not be an idiot no way Kuminga takes that stupid offer waxing his NTC giving GSW all the power. And if they give Kuminga a different offer so what in six months no team is beating a monk and a protected first for him anyways

 

[The_Jamal]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1952392887926211070

If true, I honestly think this is a good move for all parties. We haven’t made a trade with the Warriors in years and I hope everyone can see why.

They were never clear on what they wanted and once we were close, they kept on trying to increase the asking price

You cannot trade with greedy snakes. I’m telling you

Leaked to the local media reporter.

It's a battle of "who blinks first". They want the Kings to cave and give up more.

I would give the unprotected first (assuming no Carter), but I understand if Perry doesn't. Kuminga is a worthy swing, but there's also value in just letting the Warriors hang themselves and have to deal with this problem for the next year+

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'd give up the 2031 pick straight up un-protected since it's the Spurs pick anyways but I'm putting protection on 2030. Kuminga was picked 7th. Monk is value. Screw that noise. Top 7 protection otherwise they get 2031. That's fair.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

I'd give up the 2031 pick straight up un-protected since it's the Spurs pick anyways but I'm putting protection on 2030. Kuminga was picked 7th. Monk is value. Screw that noise. Top 7 protection otherwise they get 2031. That's fair.

Leaked to the local media reporter.

It's a battle of "who blinks first". They want the Kings to cave and give up more.

I would give the unprotected first (assuming no Carter), but I understand if Perry doesn't. Kuminga is a worthy swing, but there's also value in just letting the Warriors hang themselves and have to deal with this problem for the next year+

Who are we bidding against that you guys wanna give up an unprotected pick? The next best rumored offer is Richards, O’Neal, and second rounders for a guy GSW doesn’t want and a guy who doesn’t want to be there but we should give an unprotected pick for him what is this

 

[The_Jamal]

Who are we bidding against that you guys wanna give up an unprotected pick? The next best rumored offer is Richards, O’Neal, and second rounders for a guy GSW doesn’t want and a guy who doesn’t want to be there but we should give an unprotected pick for him what is this

Because they don't have to trade us Kuminga. And they're seemingly fine with him potentially taking the QO and just walking. What don't you get about this?

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Because they don't have to trade us Kuminga. And they're seemingly fine with him potentially taking the QO and just walking. What don't you get about this?

A perennial lottery team trading an unprotected pick for a non star with no bidders is what I don’t get. Maybe why GSW is even doing this they see kings and see idiots so they’ll take advantage just like the spurs did fox didn’t have to get traded they’re either right but we did it and took a crap offer

 

[The_Jamal]

A perennial lottery team trading an unprotected pick for a non star with no bidders is what I don’t get. Maybe why GSW is even doing this they see kings and see idiots so they’ll take advantage just like the spurs did

The Spurs "took advantage" because Fox stabbed this franchise in the back and let it leak publicly that he would only talk extension with the Spurs. If we put our critical thinking caps on for a minute, what do we think that does for his trade value around the league? If a star player says he'll only sign/extend with one franchise?

And we also know Vivek was behind landing LaVine. Otherwise, if LaVine was Monte's plan... he'd still be in charge. He would have gotten the chance to build out "his new core" Which fully suggests Monte probably hasn't been shot-calling for awhile now.

A lot of Kings fans want both sides of the coin. They complain that this franchise never makes any moves and doesn't do anything....and when there's a chance to acquire an exciting upside swing young guy, they scoff that it takes actual assets to acquire him.

Again, the only reason Kuminga is even available is because of how poorly GS has handled him and his development. Guys like him do not hit the open market this early in their career. So we can be opportunistic and take a shot on a guy who can be great and a feature option... or we can just sit on our hands and continue to sit in purgatory.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Who are we bidding against that you guys wanna give up an unprotected pick? The next best rumored offer is Richards, O’Neal, and second rounders for a guy GSW doesn’t want and a guy who doesn’t want to be there but we should give an unprotected pick for him what is this

You just quoted me arguing for protections.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

And we also know Vivek was behind landing LaVine. Otherwise, if LaVine was Monte's plan... he'd still be in charge. He would have gotten the chance to build out "his new core" Which fully suggests Monte probably hasn't been shot-calling for awhile now.

We had Peja say that Rich Paul forced LaVine on us and I would say firing Monte offers no proof that LaVine was all Vivek, especially since he then went out and hired a guy on record as saying you can't build a team around him.

What evidence is there that Vivek is/was obsessed with adding Zach beyond the fact we tried to sign him a long, long time ago?

I'm really curious.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

The Spurs "took advantage" because Fox stabbed this franchise in the back and let it leak publicly that he would only talk extension with the Spurs. If we put our critical thinking caps on for a minute, what do we think that does for his trade value around the league? If a star player says he'll only sign/extend with one franchise?

And we also know Vivek was behind landing LaVine. Otherwise, if LaVine was Monte's plan... he'd still be in charge. He would have gotten the chance to build out "his new core" Which fully suggests Monte probably hasn't been shot-calling for awhile now.

A lot of Kings fans want both sides of the coin. They complain that this franchise never makes any moves and doesn't do anything....and when there's a chance to acquire an exciting upside swing young guy, they scoff that it takes actual assets to acquire him.

Again, the only reason Kuminga is even available is because of how poorly GS has handled him and his development. Guys like him do not hit the open market this early in their career. So we can be opportunistic and take a shot on a guy who can be great and a feature option... or we can just sit on our hands and continue to sit in purgatory.

Perry is the one that tweeted out the tweet about being patient that doesn’t correlate with trading an unprotected pick for Kuminga. What makes you think he can even be a featured option? He barely plays on GSW and is constantly benched I like Kuminga but he isn’t some star waiting to happen. If it was Ball or Garland sure give them unprotected picks but Kuminga hasn’t even proved he could be that type of player. If they won’t except a top five protection then move let them trade him for pennies somewhere else.

 

[Makaveli]

So can warriors get horford and melton without trading kuminga?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

So can warriors get horford and melton without trading kuminga?

Some of the hold up is Kuminga's cap hold which is almost 23m. If he signed for 7 or they take back less they should be able to sign those guys.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

So can warriors get horford and melton without trading kuminga?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1952402043747868789

Apparently yes wonder why it hasn’t happened yet then

 

[Padrino]

We had Peja say that Rich Paul forced LaVine on us and I would say firing Monte offers no proof that LaVine was all Vivek, especially since he then went out and hired a guy on record as saying you can't build a team around him.

What evidence is there that Vivek is/was obsessed with adding Zach beyond the fact we tried to sign him a long, long time ago?

I'm really curious.

This assumes that Vivek did any homework on Scott Perry before hiring him; given that no formal GM search even took place this time around, it's reasonable to suspect that Vivek brought Perry on board because of his existing relationship with him and because of his prior work in the Kings' front office. From the minute the rumors started swirling that Perry was being tapped for the job, it felt like a "family" hire rather than a "due diligence" hire. I'm guessing Vivek knew nothing at all about Perry's prior comments regarding LaVine before announcing him as the Kings' new GM.

 

[Padrino]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1952402043747868789

Apparently yes wonder why it hasn’t happened yet then

Probably because the Warriors can't compel Kuminga to sign on the dotted line. He has no real leverage beyond knowing the Warriors need to execute their other off-season signings to remain competitive in the West, so my guess is he holds off signing the qualifying offer until every avenue for a possible sign-and-trade is closed. From his agent's vantage point, the Warriors are jerking around his client in bad faith and have no intention of doing right by Kuminga long-term, so there's no reason to help the Warriors out with their off-season needs.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

This assumes that Vivek did any homework on Scott Perry before hiring him; given that no formal GM search even took place this time around, it's reasonable to suspect that Vivek brought Perry on board because of his existing relationship with him and because of his prior work in the Kings' front office. From the minute the rumors started swirling that Perry was being tapped for the job, it felt like a "family" hire rather than a "due diligence" hire. I'm guessing Vivek knew nothing at all about Perry's prior comments regarding LaVine before announcing him as the Kings' new GM.

I'm willing to concede he may not have known about Zach's comments but I'm sure Perry was forthright with Vivek about his evaluation of the roster. Still doesn't answer my question though. I've asked why Peja would lie and nobody has answered that, but I still think beyond that the notion that Vivek was obsessed with LaVine is a strange one. I don't recall us seriously pursuing him any time after the contract offer was matched.

 

[MizzouKing]

Leaked to the local media reporter.

It's a battle of "who blinks first". They want the Kings to cave and give up more.

I would give the unprotected first (assuming no Carter), but I understand if Perry doesn't. Kuminga is a worthy swing, but there's also value in just letting the Warriors hang themselves and have to deal with this problem for the next year+

Agreed. Unless there is a cost to stonewalling up to the last minute in hopes the pressure will get you a better deal, there is no reason not to do so. On the other hand, this isn't Scott Perry's first rodeo and he knows the game too well to fall for that tactic. He has been very clear what was off the table (Keegan and Keon) so the Dubs know what the variables are. There is no real need for the Kings to rush either, but if another opportunity arises then I expect Perry will give them a hard deadline to or get off the pot.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1952402043747868789

Apparently yes wonder why it hasn’t happened yet then

It's been said if they take back Monk (who is scheduled for ~18.5m this year?) they have to lose Buddy or Moody. Presumably they plan to keep GPII who is unrestricted with Bird rights as well. I have them at about 171.5 million in salary right now and the first apron is 195.9

So much depends on what they ultimately sign Kuminga for.

 

[Padrino]

The Spurs "took advantage" because Fox stabbed this franchise in the back and let it leak publicly that he would only talk extension with the Spurs. If we put our critical thinking caps on for a minute, what do we think that does for his trade value around the league? If a star player says he'll only sign/extend with one franchise?

And we also know Vivek was behind landing LaVine. Otherwise, if LaVine was Monte's plan... he'd still be in charge. He would have gotten the chance to build out "his new core" Which fully suggests Monte probably hasn't been shot-calling for awhile now.

A lot of Kings fans want both sides of the coin. They complain that this franchise never makes any moves and doesn't do anything....and when there's a chance to acquire an exciting upside swing young guy, they scoff that it takes actual assets to acquire him.

Again, the only reason Kuminga is even available is because of how poorly GS has handled him and his development. Guys like him do not hit the open market this early in their career. So we can be opportunistic and take a shot on a guy who can be great and a feature option... or we can just sit on our hands and continue to sit in purgatory.

You and I are usually in lock-step on most Kings-related issues, but here I disagree. The Spurs did take advantage of the Kings' impatience with Fox's trade demand. I don't know if it was Monte or Vivek or some other voice within the franchise, but giving Fox what he wanted and getting back LaVine in return (along with all the roster imbalance issues that arrived with him) really f***ed the Kings' roster flexibility moving forward. It was a bad trade then. It remains a bad trade now, even with LaVine rehabbing his value somewhat.

I said at the time that there was no rush to trade Fox and I still believe I was right. The season was lost as soon as the trade demand was in the open, so the Kings should have held fire until the off-season. Had they done so, one of two things would have happened. Either the Spurs would have been more willing to part with a young asset, given the fact that they lucked into the second pick and drafted Dylan Harper, or they would have decided that they had no need for De'Aaron Fox, which would have forced Rich Paul to open the door to other possible suitors.

As it stood, the Spurs got to take a "Why not?" flier on Fox without having to give up anything substantial in return. Somebody blinked on the Kings' side, and they didn't need to do so. Was LaVine not going to be available come summer time? Was salvaging last season so crucial that the Kings needed to sacrifice future flexibility to bring LaVine on board immediately? I just don't see a world in which they're worse off had they waited until the off-season, when more options may have opened up. They should have been more patient in my view.

As for Kuminga, I'm interested in him as a young buy-low wing, but I do think the Kings need to protect any future first rounder offered in a trade package for him. The Warriors depreciated Kuminga as an asset of their own stubborn volition, and the Kings just can't be the franchise that gets taken for a ride in every transaction. If they're in a constant state of impatience, the franchise's long-term outlook will never improve. Let the Warriors blink, and if they don't, then you didn't lose out on a sure thing. You lost out on a worthwhile swing to take, but the pitch might come around again before too long, since the relationship between Golden State and Kuminga is already a smoldering crater.

 

[Padrino]

I'm willing to concede he may not have known about Zach's comments but I'm sure Perry was forthright with Vivek about his evaluation of the roster. Still doesn't answer my question though. I've asked why Peja would lie and nobody has answered that, but I still think beyond that the notion that Vivek was obsessed with LaVine is a strange one. I don't recall us seriously pursuing him any time after the contract offer was matched.

I don't think Peja did lie. But I do think two things can be true simultaneously. I have long since given up believing that Vivek has a single iota of basketball IQ, so it's not a circle that needs squaring for me, that Vivek might be so daft as to pine for Zach LaVine while hiring a GM who has a dim view of LaVine as a winning talent.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I don't think Peja did lie. But I do think two things can be true simultaneously. I have long since given up believing that Vivek has a single iota of basketball IQ, so it's not a circle that needs squaring for me, that Vivek might be so daft as to pine for Zach LaVine while hiring a GM who has a dim view of LaVine as a winning talent.

When it comes to Vivek I don't think he knows ball. But I also don't get why we have collectively decided that he was the driver of LaVine, as far as I recall we made him an offer once. Years ago. Never pursued again.

 

[Tetsujin]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1952431708021920145