[Trade] Warriors have obvious Jonathan Kuminga trade demand after latest Kings reports

[pdxKingsFan]

When I look at S&T deals of years past when a team has moved on from the player in question they usually get garbage back. Getting Monk back is a pretty huge get even if they don't like him, even arguably better than when they did the double-sign and trade when they were losing KD for DLo who they also clearly didn't want but they wanted to stay operating way above the cap. Arguably Monk can contribute more right away to either team. Then they get a pick on top of that (or Carter or possibly both???)?

Give me a break Dubs.

 

[iowamcnabb]

on Sactown, they said that the Warriors wouldn’t even take Dunn in a deal.

If the plan is to sign Kuminga just to trade him, what do they expect to get in return at that point? They are going to bring him off the bench getting 20 minutes a game, will that increase his value? Maybe they plan to package him with Moody and picks for a star but what star is available in the 36 million dollar range?

 

[SacTownKid]

Do NOT trade a 1st without protections. Otherwise we would be the same as NO this past year or 2.

If it's a pick within the next two seasons it's probably a worthwhile gamble if they believe that much in Kuminga. As it is, 2030/31 is possibly the point where the Kings will be smack dab in the middle of their lowest if this doesn't work. Monte got tricked by the Spurs and now the Warriors are trying to trick Perry.

 

[SacTownKid]

on Sactown, they said that the Warriors wouldn’t even take Dunn in a deal.

If the plan is to sign Kuminga just to trade him, what do they expect to get in return at that point? They are going to bring him off the bench getting 20 minutes a game, will that increase his value? Maybe they plan to package him with Moody and picks for a star but what star is available in the 36 million dollar range?

It means they likely don't want to trade him. Which is what this kind of what this always looked like. They might view him as someone they can put on ice so when the Curry era winds down they have him to fall back on. Putting young guys on ice for 4-5 years is probably a stretch since usually the team eventually just lets the player go or trades them, but if they can get Kuminga on a cheap deal then in two years they are set for a quick and efficient rebuild.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

If it's a pick within the next two seasons it's probably a worthwhile gamble if they believe that much in Kuminga. As it is, 2030/31 is possibly the point where the Kings will be smack dab in the middle of their lowest if this doesn't work. Monte got tricked by the Spurs and now the Warriors are trying to trick Perry.

Yeah I would be fine with 2027s pick unprotected, or maybe top 2. Assuming Carter isn't included.

 

[ockingsfan]

Pretty simple. If you keep Carter, you can give the unprotected. If not, it stays protected.

Also, you're correct this franchise is not good. Which is why a swing on an upside player like Kuminga, is what a team stuck in the middle SHOULD be doing. Especially considering the fact that we're pretty confident Vivek will never rebuild.

Trading for the established star is 100% the wrong route to go. Like a Jaylen Brown package probably costs you what.. Keegan+3-4 FRP? And you have to match salary so like DDR+Monk+Keegan+3-4 FRP. Or Lavine+Keegan+3-4 FRP.

How does that drastically change our outlook? Is Brown+Domas enough with no future assets? Especially when we'd have to include a bunch of our "win now" talent to execute the deal?

Adding Kuminga and getting to keep Carter actually gives this team a pretty damn decent amount of future value to build off of

Keegan
Keon
Kuminga
Nique
Carter
Raynaud
IJ

And Assuming we send out DDR to MIA, if we bring in Kuminga, the vets are still:

Domas
LaVine
Dennis
Russ?

And the Kings still have access to FRP's every other year until 2031

Kings 2026 FRP
Kings 2027 FRP
SAS Lotto protected 2027 FRP
Kings 2028 FRP
Kings 2029 FRP
Sac 2030 FRP (trade?)
MIN 2031 unprotected FRP
Sac 2031 pick swap with SAS

All this to say of course, that we should be fighting to keep it protected in negotiations. But I do not think it's worth walking away from losing the chance at Kuminga if that's the hard-line being put in the sand

IMHO, no way I trade an unprotected 1st round pick for Kuminga. I may consider lightening the protection, but at the very least, I would make it top 5 protected, to protect us from losing a shot at a generational talent. We would look like Idiots if we wound up losing a top 5 pick in a trade for Kuminga, who the Warriors don't even want.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

IMHO, no way I trade an unprotected 1st round pick for Kuminga. I may consider lightening the protection, but at the very least, I would make it top 5 protected, to protect us from losing a shot at a generational talent. We would look like Idiots if we wound up losing a top 5 pick in a trade for Kuminga, who the Warriors don't even want.

You gotta give something to get something...

 

[Caccia]

It means they likely don't want to trade him. Which is what this kind of what this always looked like. They might view him as someone they can put on ice so when the Curry era winds down they have him to fall back on. Putting young guys on ice for 4-5 years is probably a stretch since usually the team eventually just lets the player go or trades them, but if they can get Kuminga on a cheap deal then in two years they are set for a quick and efficient rebuild.

Kumingna has already been "on ice" for four years. He does not want to accept even one more year. He wants control of his future.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

IMHO, no way I trade an unprotected 1st round pick for Kuminga. I may consider lightening the protection, but at the very least, I would make it top 5 protected, to protect us from losing a shot at a generational talent. We would look like Idiots if we wound up losing a top 5 pick in a trade for Kuminga, who the Warriors don't even want.

Reality is the Dubs are on the clock and its possible their other FA-signings in waiting look at what they are doing to Kuminga and say you know what, there are other teams I can play for. Solidarity ain't what it used to be but there's 29 other franchises in the league and the only other one pulling this crap is Brooklyn but Cam Thomas doesn't have a bunch of suitors waiting them out.

 

[ockingsfan]

You gotta give something to get something...

I would say a top 5 protected lottery pick is pretty reasonable return for Kuminga, especially since Kuminga was the 7th pick. The Kings should never be trading their own unprotected first round picks, period.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I would say a top 5 protected lottery pick is pretty reasonable return for Kuminga, especially since Kuminga was the 7th pick. The Kings should never be trading their own unprotected first round picks, period.

I'm willing to whittle it down to top 3 or 4 especially because Monk is not a garbage player they are getting right now. You hear Dubs fans saying he'll make it so Buddy Hield needs to be moved. Like he is an upgrade in every way over Buddy Hield.

 

[SacTownKid]

Kumingna has already been "on ice" for four years. He does not want to accept even one more year. He wants control of his future.

And unfortunately for him the Warriors kind of control that right now. He was 18 when he came in and yes, is still younger than the Kings current rookies. Kuminga has developed the last 4 years and I can't see the Warriors just throwing it away. Not this early on at least. They obviously want him back for some reason since they are offering money. If it's for pure trade purposes they're delusional. Look at Kumingas market now, not exactly lighting up the league here, lol.

 

[SacTownKid]

Reality is the Dubs are on the clock and its possible their other FA-signings in waiting look at what they are doing to Kuminga and say you know what, there are other teams I can play for. Solidarity ain't what it used to be but there's 29 other franchises in the league and the only other one pulling this crap is Brooklyn but Cam Thomas doesn't have a bunch of suitors waiting them out.

Yeah but for Horford or GP2, the Warriors couldn't possibly be seeing that as worth just canning Kuminga. If the Kings really want to put pressure on the Dubs go offer GP2 part of the MLE they have left haha.

 

[SacTownKid]

I would say a top 5 protected lottery pick is pretty reasonable return for Kuminga, especially since Kuminga was the 7th pick. The Kings should never be trading their own unprotected first round picks, period.

If the Warriors are making the 2030 pick demand there's a reason. They want to get another top 5 pick for nothing. Nobody is betting on the Kings to win a ring but even they would have to look at Sac currently and think they'll be getting at best a pick outside the top 10 if they get one within the next two seasons.

 

[Section 101]

So according to Bobby Marks. The Warriors can't do a sign and trade with Kuminga because they will be hard capped at the first apron and wont be able to sign other players.

12 min mark he discusses it.

 

[White_Chocolate]

So according to Bobby Marks. The Warriors can't do a sign and trade with Kuminga because they will be hard capped at the first apron and wont be able to sign other players.

12 min mark he discusses it.

They would have to move buddy or Moody to make it work. I don’t think it would be hard to move Moody though if they were motivated by a less protected or unprotected pick.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

So according to Bobby Marks. The Warriors can't do a sign and trade with Kuminga because they will be hard capped at the first apron and wont be able to sign other players.

12 min mark he discusses it.

But that restriction applies to teams *receiving* a player in a sign and trade, not teams sending a player out. They're not capped at the first apron, I think he misspoke.

 

[White_Chocolate]

But that restriction applies to teams *receiving* a player in a sign and trade, not teams sending a player out. They're not capped at the first apron, I think he misspoke.

I trust Capt. the most with numbers

 

[pdxKingsFan]

But that restriction applies to teams *receiving* a player in a sign and trade, not teams sending a player out. They're not capped at the first apron, I think he misspoke.

Also they’re below the apron right now AFAIK and have to take less than they send due to BYC rules so they should be able to fit in their vet contracts.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

You gotta give something to get something...

Nobody trades unprotected picks for non stars there’s no giving to get in that scenario

 

[Section 101]

But that restriction applies to teams *receiving* a player in a sign and trade, not teams sending a player out. They're not capped at the first apron, I think he misspoke.

They are like $350k under the first apron now with Kuminga at $8 mil. If they trade him and get say Monk at $18 Mil they are now $10 mil over the apron. Not hard capped, but over the Apron that applies restrictions

 

[Kingz19]

Nobody trades unprotected picks for non stars there’s no giving to get in that scenario

Magic just traded 4 of them for one.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Also they’re below the apron right now AFAIK and have to take less than they send due to BYC rules so they should be able to fit in their vet contracts.

Kuminga's "outgoing salary" for trade purposes would only be 50% of the actual salary, but the W's can take on more than his "outgoing salary".

Now, IF they use the expanded traded player exception to bring in Monk, then THAT would cap them at the first apron, and that's probably what Marks was talking about.

 

[Section 101]

Also they’re below the apron right now AFAIK and have to take less than they send due to BYC rules so they should be able to fit in their vet contracts.

The team with the outgoing player(s) cant send out less than the signing contract so the warriors can't take back less.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

The team with the outgoing player(s) cant send out less than the signing contract so the warriors can't take back less.

That applies to what the Kings can receive moreso than what GS does?

Kings have to apply full value, Dubs only get credit for the 50%?

 

[Capt. Factorial]

They are like $350k under the first apron now with Kuminga at $8 mil. If they trade him and get say Monk at $18 Mil they are now $10 mil over the apron. Not hard capped, but over the Apron that applies restrictions

He was probably talking about using the expanded traded player exception. I think there are ways to make a multi-team deal that would leave the Warriors with some space...

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Crazy thing is if Dubs would remove the ridiculous team option on the two year deal he’d have probably signed it by now. They are just acting entirely in bad faith while trying to posit everyone else as unreasonable.

 

[The_Jamal]

I do not care if Carter is included. Carter projects to be a bench player. If kuminga is your guy, you absolutely give up carter and keep your picks. You already have keon.

Giving up a 2030 1st to warriors and then a swap with 2031 1st to spurs is going to be a disaster.

Why does keegan have to be included in a trade? Yes ill give up lavine or demar/monk and 4 1sts for a jaylen brown in a heart beat. But realistically id soft tank the next 2 years holding my picks, and then id go for a star at that time. Still-
Schroder - Keon- brown - keegan - sabonis
Is actually a team that has a real chance in making the 2nd round. Which is more than we've done in 20 years.

This team is just doing what it always does. Give up futures for a guy who isnt good now but its a shiny new piece to get season ticket holders buying again. Yay!

The Celtics would not listen to any offer that didnt include Keegan. He's our most valuable asset, by far. Any star deal would start with him

 

[The_Jamal]

on Sactown, they said that the Warriors wouldn’t even take Dunn in a deal.

If the plan is to sign Kuminga just to trade him, what do they expect to get in return at that point? They are going to bring him off the bench getting 20 minutes a game, will that increase his value? Maybe they plan to package him with Moody and picks for a star but what star is available in the 36 million dollar range?

They're delusional. Kuminga is not going to have more value in Feb, than he is now on the warriors. Especially if Kerr doesn't play him in a significant role, which considering he himself has said he doesn't want to play him... seems likely.

The longer this drags out, the more and more likely I think they accept the monk and 2030 protected. Eventually, you have to think Steph, Dray, Kerr, Jimmy start getting involved and get in Dunleavys ear to complete their team build.

 

[dude12]

The Kings should keep a top 10 protection on a future first….dont care what year it is. THIS org can not do a deal for Kuminga including an unprotected first and then HOPE he c becomes a borderline all-star or more. I’m not a Kerr fan at all but there’s a reason he doesn’t like to play him 30 minutes. We going to just look past that part?

Monk and a top 10 protected first is more than fair. The other package including Carter is more than fair.