Walton fired

I’m not saying bjax hasnt paid dues. But based on your response you are acting as if Hammon hasnt been paying any dues. 6x wnba all star, 2x all-wnba first team, 2015 summer league champion head coach, assistant coach on one of the best coaches in nba history since 2014. She has been a head coach candidate recently while nobody is talking about bobby.
You asked what differentiates them. I gave you the things that does and was fair about it. Those things differentiate them.
 
should also be pointed out that while Atkinson did have a hand in developing LeVert and Dinwiddie and the other young guys the pickless Nets had, his players apparently hated playing for him in the same way Van Gundy/Thib dudes sorta end Up hating playing for them to the point KD and Kyrie had him fired. Is that potential for player development greater than the potential for mass player revolt? That’s the sort of question the Kings will need to ask themselves when making their next hire.
And unfortunately Atkinson coming in wearing a Warriors jersey is all that's likely needed to lock up Viveks full endorsement. haha.
 
This team yes, however she led the Spurs summer league team to a title as well. It feels people wouldnt feel this attachment to bobby if he never played here. I honestly feel that is why people want him as coach. We as an org cant keep looking to our past to solve our current and future problems. That is not a knock on bjax, while more of an annoyance of people wanting to pull from the past.
Nah. Just sounds like you really, really, really want Hammon to be the next coach. Head to head, Bobby is more qualified than Hammon.
 
Nah. Just sounds like you really, really, really want Hammon to be the next coach. Head to head, Bobby is more qualified than Hammon.
I want to win, that is what I want. What I am tired of is people constantly feeling like our former players can solve our problems. Vlade, Peja, Doug, and bjax. People are looking for that past magic. I said i was intrigued by her, not advocating for her to be the next coach. I am also not high on bjax being our head coach
 
This team yes, however she led the Spurs summer league team to a title as well. It feels people wouldnt feel this attachment to bobby if he never played here. I honestly feel that is why people want him as coach. We as an org cant keep looking to our past to solve our current and future problems. That is not a knock on bjax, while more of an annoyance of people wanting to pull from the past.
Yes, the SPURS team. As for Bobby the ONLY reason I am a fan at this point is because some of us on this board paid VERY close attention to what he did in summer league. Apparently closer than the Kings themselves. Look, Bobby is obviously a fan favorite, perhaps the greatest in Sac history, but I don't care if he was some rando picked up off the street, he did well and did almost exactly what some of us had been saying the main team should be doing on both ends. He genuinely tried to run Waltons dribble hand off system and help drop coverage. They looked terrible. He ditched all of it (to the extent that it hurt them that is, every team runs college offense to some degree) and they shined. He played pressure defense, man to man, bits of zone when needed, etc. He played big, small, whatever was needed. He lost Metu and didn't lose a step. He adjusted but never let his system fade. He brought Lukes system back in the 1st quarter of the championship game and the Kings got their butts kicked early. He ditched it again, never looked back and trounced the C's on the way to a title. Those are called coaching instincts. You either have those, or you don't. Are they enough to get a bad team to win? No, probably not, but those instincts will also allow a coach to recognize talent and use it properly. You can't ever totally lose doing that.
 
I want to win, that is what I want. What I am tired of is people constantly feeling like our former players can solve our problems. Vlade, Peja, Doug, and bjax. People are looking for that past magic. I said i was intrigued by her, not advocating for her to be the next coach. I am also not high on bjax being our head coach
Your reasoning would be more appropriate if I was advocating for Doug, who jumped into coaching this year. Bobby has been coaching since essentially his retirement.
 
I want to win, that is what I want. What I am tired of is people constantly feeling like our former players can solve our problems. Vlade, Peja, Doug, and bjax. People are looking for that past magic. I said i was intrigued by her, not advocating for her to be the next coach. I am also not high on bjax being our head coach
I tend to agree on not trying to look to players from the glory years to be saviors. It's why I was surprised at the job Bobby did in Summer League. Going in I didn't have high expectations for him as the SL coach but he really did do a fantastic job. Is he ready for the the NBA? I have no idea.

But honestly, I don't know that I could advocate for any coach right now without knowing what the roster will look like for next season. Will McNair stand pat with the team as is? Trade Fox in a win-now move? Blow it up and rebuild?

The criteria for the next coach will vary significantly depending on the strategy going forward.

But (and at this point this shouldn't even need to be said) I don't think it matters who coaches this team if they can't increase the overall talent level one way or another.
 
I want to win, that is what I want. What I am tired of is people constantly feeling like our former players can solve our problems. Vlade, Peja, Doug, and bjax. People are looking for that past magic. I said i was intrigued by her, not advocating for her to be the next coach. I am also not high on bjax being our head coach
Again, you are comparing things based on appearance and not reality. Bobby has a different experience level than all of them. He's been working his way up. Under Adelman and other systems. But saying Bobby shouldn't be coach because of those other players, or his personal history here is a mistake that hopefully the Kings themselves don't make. Low risk, high reward, and literally the only thing that remotely looks competent with this organization right now. If he flops, so be it. Hiring Stotts or Atkinson is going to come with another potental, "But they are stuck with him because of that contract!". Monte better be hedging his bets on fluidity. All in means going to all out when you need to is a tougher and longer road. So far he's been super conservative. To the point of self inflicted damage honestly. However, he hasn't blocked himself in at this point so he can still pick either path depending on need.
 
Your reasoning would be more appropriate if I was advocating for Doug, who jumped into coaching this year. Bobby has been coaching since essentially his retirement.
Yeah, and while I think DC has great potential as some type of coach, him getting the nod was one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. Kind of like taking the only other worthwhile thing, Rico as your development guy, and moving him to a lead assistant. The one thing they had right and now they gamble with that? SMH. Now we really, really have to hope Gentry works because will Rico be willing to go back down a step???
 
I tend to agree on not trying to look to players from the glory years to be saviors. It's why I was surprised at the job Bobby did in Summer League. Going in I didn't have high expectations for him as the SL coach but he really did do a fantastic job. Is he ready for the the NBA? I have no idea.

But honestly, I don't know that I could advocate for any coach right now without knowing what the roster will look like for next season. Will McNair stand pat with the team as is? Trade Fox in a win-now move? Blow it up and rebuild?

The criteria for the next coach will vary significantly depending on the strategy going forward.

But (and at this point this shouldn't even need to be said) I don't think it matters who coaches this team if they can't increase the overall talent level one way or another.
The bigger question is are the Kings ready for a big money win now coach? The remainder of this season will decide it I guess. The truth is if Gentry gets them back into the play in he probably gets another year so they still continue to kind of waffle. The only clear thing would be if they fail as hard as they have been. Then you know change is coming.

I can advocate for Bobby in both scenarios. His history is already on the player development side so in a rebuild, that's where his bread was buttered anyway. As long as someone employs some of the same things Bobby did in SL this team should be able to compete if they aren't mentally checked out already. We all know when that happens there is no coming back.
 
The bigger question is are the Kings ready for a big money win now coach? The remainder of this season will decide it I guess. The truth is if Gentry gets them back into the play in he probably gets another year so they still continue to kind of waffle. The only clear thing would be if they fail as hard as they have been. Then you know change is coming.

I can advocate for Bobby in both scenarios. His history is already on the player development side so in a rebuild, that's where his bread was buttered anyway. As long as someone employs some of the same things Bobby did in SL this team should be able to compete if they aren't mentally checked out already. We all know when that happens there is no coming back.
if Gentry is retained next year that’s prolly the end for season tickets for me (prolly not since they sell so well lol).
 
The Demarcus Cousins trade “probably” qualifies as a big rebuild
we traded one player and never changed expectations, kept the coach, Vlade did Vlade. I think if we move Fox, Hield, Bagley for one player and multiple picks it's going to be way different plus that almost guarantees Gentry isn't coming back and it will be Monte's guy with Monte's picks. And if things really go south I can see moving Barnes too.
 
Actually, Pollard is right and you are wrong. The problem is lack of talent on this team....not the Coach.

What players has Monte brought into the Kings that could change this dynamic? Was Tristan Thompson going to make the difference this year? Hassam Whiteside? You have a glaring weakness at Small forward. Moe Harkless? Come on man.

The problem is that Monte went for the "Lipstick on a pig" remodel rather than a tear it down-rebuilt it Hinke hybrid style.

The Kings goal is to make the play-in. 2/3rd of all NBA team make it to the play-in. Goal should be making it to the NBA championship. Any goal short of this is crap.

If he didn't like Luke, why did he speak so glowingly about him just in the recent Athletic article. Just a week ago I read an article in the Athletic about how great the relationship was with Luke and the organization.

Now, Monte says play faster publicly now. More crap.

The problem is lack of talent....and that is squarely on the back of Monte. What deals has he made to get the Kings to a better place. This lack of talent falls squarely on Monte's shoulders. He sold Vivek on the plan to keep the core, and build the fringe...this is the plan to keep the peeps in the seats by showing incremental improvement. And Vivek bought in. How has that worked out so far. The record speaks for itself. And now Monte is in the hot-seat.

BTW, Vivek decided to fire Luke yesterday. Monte was told to go and tell Luke. That is the part that Monte forgot to tell us in the presser.

Now the Kings need to put their big girl panties on and begin the inevitable-the total rebuild.
I think they're both right.

I don't think Luke got the best out of his players and I don't think they cared about playing hard anymore. At that point, either the players or the coach need to go. The weak link is the coach who has never had a winning season under his belt. I think he went 28-27 when he had Lebron on his roster. That's saying something right there. It's much easier to get another Luke Walton than it is another Fox, Barnes, Hali, Buddy etc.

Now if the players can't get up and play for Gentry, then they need to start getting rid of them as well. They more than likely aren't a playoff team but they're better than the team that lost to the Thunder and got blown out by the Raptors.
 
Actually, Pollard is right and you are wrong.
Oh, wow. Ok. That settles it. Because you said so.

Good, great, grand, wonderful.

No, actually what I said the first time is much more likely and accurate.

It’s not just one thing. That’s the 800 pound gorilla point you and Pollard are both missing.

The head coach was among numerous issues. He just wasn’t the ONLY issue.

The fact that you’d try to argue against Walton being part of their problems demonstrates to me that you either don’t watch most the games or just flat out don’t know what you’re watching if you do.

Which is it? At least Pollard likely has the excuse of not watching even half the games, if that many.

Furthermore, Pollard’s assessment that the team has a $#/t roster is completely idiotic. Longtime KINGS fans have seen their share of $#/t rosters over 36 years. This current team is far from it.

It’s imbalanced. It has holes. But there is lots of talent there too. Certainly enough to compete for a play-in spot with the right leadership, direction and basketball acumen. Those are the things this franchise has been missing most.

While firing Walton surely won’t cure all the problems, it surely cures at least one. So long as they end up finding the right guy.
 
I think they're both right.

I don't think Luke got the best out of his players and I don't think they cared about playing hard anymore. At that point, either the players or the coach need to go. The weak link is the coach who has never had a winning season under his belt. I think he went 28-27 when he had Lebron on his roster. That's saying something right there. It's much easier to get another Luke Walton than it is another Fox, Barnes, Hali, Buddy etc.

Now if the players can't get up and play for Gentry, then they need to start getting rid of them as well. They more than likely aren't a playoff team but they're better than the team that lost to the Thunder and got blown out by the Raptors.
Exactly.

Pollard had good points, he is just wrong in asserting that Luke Walton wasn’t among the problems. Basically dismissing his ineptitude because the KINGS have other problems too. Very short-sighted. Likely because, like most outsiders that don’t see the team play on a nightly basis, he doesn’t have the full and complete picture.

Walton didn’t get the best out of his team. Not even close to it. His rotations and schemes sans plays coming out of time outs were often highly questionable. His post game comments and explanations were often puzzling to say the least. He just didn’t seem to ever get it.

As for Gentry, I’m skeptical of his leadership not only due to his HC history and the defensive numbers under his leadership — but also because he was under Walton’s umbrella. Sans maybe DC and Bobby Jackson, isn’t it likely that most of his remaining staff are going to echo his beliefs? His style?

I’d rather see the KINGS go in an entirely different direction than with someone off Walton’s current tree.
 
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Oh, wow. Ok. That settles it. Because you said so.

Good, great, grand, wonderful.

No, actually what I said the first time is much more likely and accurate.

It’s not just one thing. That’s the 800 pound gorilla point you and Pollard are both missing.

The head coach was among numerous issues. He just wasn’t the ONLY issue.

The fact that you’d try to argue against Walton being part of their problems demonstrates to me that you either don’t watch most the games or just flat out don’t know what you’re watching if you do.

Which is it? At least Pollard likely has the excuse of not watching even half the games, if that many.

Furthermore, Pollard’s assessment that the team has a $#/t roster is completely idiotic. Longtime KINGS fans have seen their share of $#/t rosters over 36 years. This current team is far from it.

It’s imbalanced. It has holes. But there is lots of talent there too. Certainly enough to compete for a play-in spot with the right leadership, direction and basketball acumen. Those are the things this franchise has been missing most.

While firing Walton surely won’t cure all the problems, it surely cures at least one. So long as they end up finding the right guy.
hahah some of these new people that post here are hilarious and clearly weren’t ready for you and many of the other vets
 
Sources close to Walton seemed resigned to his fate in private conversations in recent days. One referred to Ranadive as “the forever chaos agent.” The Kings have gone 256-397 (.392) since Ranadive purchased the team in 2013. They have gone through six head coaches and four general managers in eight-plus seasons under Ranadive’s stewardship. 7 hours ago – via Sacramento Bee
Ranadive’s history as KINGS owner shouldn’t be discounted or dismissed. He’s not been good. Not even close to it. He’s made nearly every wrong turn possible.

That said, dismissing the HC hired by the previous GM was an inevitability. A necessity. Unless he became the next Phil Jackson or Steve Kerr, how could it not be?

The most likely reasons it took this long after Vlade’s departure and McNair’s hiring are two fold. One, the length of the contract and money still owed. And, two, because the KINGS have already gone through so many coaches so quickly.

If not for those factors, Walton almost assuredly would have been gone a while ago.

Now, as someone else pointed out, the KINGS have nearly cleared and started a new slate.

They have a new GM. They own most their draft capital. The new GM has already made 2 first round draft picks and numerous FA signings to start making over the talent on the team. He now has the latitude to hire whatever head coach he wants.

No more excuses.
 
hahah some of these new people that post here are hilarious and clearly weren’t ready for you and many of the other vets
It’s easy to spot hot take guy, echo chambers, and those that aren’t good at researching to ensure they have their ducks in a row.

People that know a little bit can easily spot those that don’t.

I’ve watched more KINGS games over 36 years than I care to remember. I’ve seen a lot more bad basketball than good, unfortunately. That, along with typically being well researched allows me to spot and call out nonsense.

Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of knowledgeable people here. Lots of passionate, well articulated fans. There are just a lot of bad ones too. And Bricklayer hasn’t been around to lay the stick to them. So the vets here need to do it. ;)
 
I think they're both right.

I don't think Luke got the best out of his players and I don't think they cared about playing hard anymore. At that point, either the players or the coach need to go. The weak link is the coach who has never had a winning season under his belt. I think he went 28-27 when he had Lebron on his roster. That's saying something right there. It's much easier to get another Luke Walton than it is another Fox, Barnes, Hali, Buddy etc.

Now if the players can't get up and play for Gentry, then they need to start getting rid of them as well. They more than likely aren't a playoff team but they're better than the team that lost to the Thunder and got blown out by the Raptors.
And that's the tough spot they've put the team in. If Gentry doesn't change a lot of what Luke was doing in terms of player usage and system then them playing for a coach is merely a small bandaid anyway. It's not a fix. Luke, and Joerger for that matter before him, played in a way that didn't help anyone on their respective rosters. The only time we saw anything close to proper usage was last year when Luke gave in and let Fox run the show.
 
Collectively, this team has a poor motor. Only person with an above average motor is Davion. Playing faster will just lead to a repeat of last year where the entire team is more focused on out running the opposition than stopping them. Opposing teams will just do the same sh*t: play no defense in the 1H then clamp down in the 2H. It'll be the same crap. Made a boatload of money last year betting on the 1H over for both teams. And then the 2H Kings only under. Lolzzz.

Bring on the tank.
so you say poor motor, which is two things. one improper nutrition and either overtraining or not training enough for the sport
 

Warhawk

The cake is a lie.
Staff member
Head to head, Bobby is more qualified than Hammon.
I'm not sure I'd agree. I don't even know how you come to that conclusion.

Hammon has been Pop's apprentice (right-hand woman) for a few years now and has several times been floated as a name as a possible HC candidate. She's coached at the NBA level when Pop was out. She's been coaching with the Spurs for 7 years. She's universally respected as far as I can tell and the popular consensus is that she will be a HC sooner rather than later.

Bobby has done more of the behind-the-scenes stuff and is now head coaching for the first time at summer league and the G-League (read: JV) level. And he's succeeding.

I'm not saying one is better than the other (either way, because I honestly have no idea), but to summarily discount the work that Hammon has done and the coaching experience she has under her belt does a grave disservice to her. She's paid her dues and seems to be ready to take on that role. Bobby hasn't coached at the levels Hammon has. And that's not to say he can't, but that he hasn't.
 
I'm not sure I'd agree. I don't even know how you come to that conclusion.

Hammon has been Pop's apprentice (right-hand woman) for a few years now and has several times been floated as a name as a possible HC candidate. She's coached at the NBA level when Pop was out. She's been coaching with the Spurs for 7 years. She's universally respected as far as I can tell and the popular consensus is that she will be a HC sooner rather than later.

Bobby has done more of the behind-the-scenes stuff and is now head coaching for the first time at summer league and the G-League (read: JV) level. And he's succeeding.

I'm not saying one is better than the other (either way, because I honestly have no idea), but to summarily discount the work that Hammon has done and the coaching experience she has under her belt does a grave disservice to her. She's paid her dues and seems to be ready to take on that role. Bobby hasn't coached at the levels Hammon has. And that's not to say he can't, but that he hasn't.
What levels has she coached that Bobby hasn’t?