Vote re: Noce plus the Noce trade challenge

K

kingofthejungle

G-League
#1
#1
Most agree that "Noce" needs to go. I'm new here and I have no idea how to create a poll, but it woudl be great if a mod were to add a "yes/no" poll for the question: "Are the Kings a better team at present and better off in the future without Andres Nocioni?" An important factor is, of course, under what circumstances do we get rid of Noce. The Real Madrid rumor is one possibility but seems unlikely. Which leads to the "challenge" portion of this thread, which prompts you to offer a REASONABLE Nocioni trade that falls under the CBA. But don't stop there, a rationale for the trade from both team's perspectives is appreciated. Persuad us. Make me a believer. Lord knows I want to believe Noce can be moved!

There's just so much debate in regards to draft picks that I thought this would serve as an interesting alternative topic to explore.

I'll start:
Andres Nocioni to the Bucks for Dan Gadzuric.

Why for the Bucks: With the leadership of Brandon Jennings, the Bucks propelled themselves into the playoff race this year. The addition of John Salmons bolstered their backcourt and compliment Andrew Bogut before his season-ending injury. Veteran Michael Redd remains a key figure but has been out of the rotation due to injury for most of the year. In Nocioni, the Bucks would add to their playoff tested core. Noce can switch between the 3 and 4, and might serve as the Bucks first option off the bench. Gadzuric gives the Bucks nothing, but they would be sacrificing the financial leverage his sooner-expiring contract would give them.

Jennings/Ridnour (if re-signed)
Redd/Bell
Salmons/Delfino/Mbah a Moute
Nocioni/Illyasova
Bogut

Why for the Kings: Gadzuric has one more year left on his contract compared to Nocioni's three. Nocioni is potentially worth much more to the Bucks than the Kings, as it fulfils a relative position of need for them and the Kings have Greene and Casspi. The Kings could use another 7 footer on the roster even if he is a stiff, the point of this trade is in dumping Noce's contract.

Evans
Udrih/Garcia
Greene/Casspi
Landry/Thompson
Hawes/Gadzuric
+1st rounder, #33 and poss FA.

So this is an example of what we're looking for (although maybe not the content as this may get torn up;)

Gotta run,

KOTJ
 
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D

dbfish

Bench
#2
#2
Noc and Beno to Toronto for Jose Calderon and Reggie Evans.

Works moneywise. Evans contract expires after next year and gives you some rebounding (and nothing else) off the bench.

Althogh Calderon's contract is more than Beno's, I think he is a better player. Don't know if Toronto would do this but I like it for the Kings.

OK, somebody blow this up.:p
 
K

Kingsfan98

Prospect
#4
#4
dbfish said:
Noc and Beno to Toronto for Jose Calderon and Reggie Evans.

Works moneywise. Evans contract expires after next year and gives you some rebounding (and nothing else) off the bench.

Althogh Calderon's contract is more than Beno's, I think he is a better player. Don't know if Toronto would do this but I like it for the Kings.

OK, somebody blow this up.:p
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I really don't think Calderon is better than Beno. And if we dump Beno, then we don't have any point guards.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#5
#5
Kingsfan98 said:
I really don't think Calderon is better than Beno. And if we dump Beno, then we don't have any point guards.
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You mean other than Reke and Caulderon right? We'd have to add a third pg, but you must remember the main purpose of this trade would be to simply get rid of Nocioni.
 
K

Kingsfan98

Prospect
#6
#6
Tetsujin said:
You mean other than Reke and Caulderon right? We'd have to add a third pg, but you must remember the main purpose of this trade would be to simply get rid of Nocioni.
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Ya, and I'm assuming that Reke plays more of the off guard. I also really like the way Beno plays. But getting rid of Noc would be fantastic.
 
F

FakeInjury

Bench
#7
#7
Hard to trade Beno after this year. Beno is still young, and Jose is coming off an injury that has been nagging him for 2 years. It wouldn't be wise to trade Beno at this point for anything but a SURE THING.
 
T

The Hammer

All-Star
#8
#8
FakeInjury said:
Hard to trade Beno after this year. Beno is still young, and Jose is coming off an injury that has been nagging him for 2 years. It wouldn't be wise to trade Beno at this point for anything but a SURE THING.
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I agree. Beno's just finding his groove. He really did earn his contract this season. I think he'll also get better/more consistent. He is still fairly young, and he has the type of game that could remain at this level or better for another 6-8 years. Compliments Tyreke perfectly in a lot of ways, does great coming off the bench.

Also, you gotta figure the time it takes for guys to get used to each other. This young group barely knew each other at the start of last season, and we've added a couple new guys to that mix. Stability is an important factor going forward. I think Beno is part of our future, just for the simple facts that he is highly effective, mature, high bball IQ, and a quality person. His defense if improving as well, and was respectble last year. He just has a very dependable quality. You just don't worry when Beno's out there. And damn he's getting good at that little pull up jumper.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#9
#9
FakeInjury said:
Hard to trade Beno after this year. Beno is still young, and Jose is coming off an injury that has been nagging him for 2 years. It wouldn't be wise to trade Beno at this point for anything but a SURE THING.
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In one sense it's hard because he played well for the Kings last year, but in another sense his trade value is up because he did play well, so it would be "easy" to trade him. I wonder what Beno's trade value is right now? If you trade him now, I wonder how high a #1 pick you could get for him?
 
F

FakeInjury

Bench
#11
#11
I like the Hedo idea...but why are we going to BAIL OUT the raptors and exchange NOC/13million for HEDO/45million???!???!. I do agree that Hedo would be an upgrade, but at that price!?!? I would rather overpay Brockman and Green and Hawes and spread that extra money around players who aren't prima-donnas( Hedo ). Noc is actually a very good player for the money and duration of his contract. If we can trade him for a better contract/player or a multiple player deal, good. Noc shouldn't be shipped out for anything less than an expiring and a 2nd rd pick .
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#14
#14
kingofthejungle said:
Did anyone else want to contribute any other Noce trade ideas? Didn't read many thoughts re: if Noce to the Bucks for Gadz seemed reasonable or not.
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Here's the problem. In our little sureal world here, most posters don't put much value on Nocioni. As a result, they're willing to trade him for a poster of Wilt Chamberlin and a box of dunking dounuts. Which is about the value of Gadz. But I suspect that in the real world, the Kings place more value on him, and would want equal amounts of that value returned.

If so, that makes him a little more difficult to trade. Boston was interested at one time, and who knows? They still may be. Is there anyone you would want off their roster thats realistic? Well when you take a look at their roster you see a team thats in trouble in the immediate future.

They only have 6 players under contract for next year. And yet those 6 players salaries add up to 63.3 million dollars. And of those six players, 4 are on the downside of their careers. So they still have to fill out the roster with another 7 players and they're over the cap before they even start. Nocioni would almost be one of the youngsters on that team. The only player they could trade whose salary would match up is Wallace, and with Garnett getting close to using a walker, I doubt they would trade him.

My point is that if your going to propose a trade (not you) I think you have to do some research and give reasons why each team would make the trade.
 
M

mr. moustache

Bench
#16
#16
Kingster said:
In one sense it's hard because he played well for the Kings last year, but in another sense his trade value is up because he did play well, so it would be "easy" to trade him. I wonder what Beno's trade value is right now? If you trade him now, I wonder how high a #1 pick you could get for him?
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I don't think we can get a 1st found pick for him.
 
Jespher

Jespher

Starter
#17
#17
Here are a couple options...

Option #1: After the big free agent season has passed...Kings dump salary.

New Jersey has a lot of cap space this summer, but the arena move to Brooklyn has stalled, and they aren't thought of as a very attractive destination for free agents. In order to meet minimum league salary requirements they might facilitate a trade to take a player for a trade exception and second round pick. Considering how bad the Nets are, that could be a very high second round pick next year (low 30s). Would that be enough to entice a salary dump of Nocioni to New Jersey?

Why New Jersey Would Do This: The Nets have a good point guard and center. They have large holes at the wing positions, which nocioni could fill nicely for them over the next few seasons. Furthermore, his salary is declining, allowing them to resign their young talent, and still meet the league minimum salary rules.

Why the Kings Would Do This: They would gain an extra 6-8 million dollars in cap space to resign Hawes/Tyreke/Greene or to use on a free agent later on in the summer. The second round pick could also be a valuable piece for the rebuilding Kings.

Option #2: Kings take on salary (After playoffs, but before the draft)

The Jazz are looking great, even with an injured Andrei Kirilenko and Mehmet Okur. They also have lots of young bigs and the Knicks first round pick in this years draft. Seeing as they are close to the luxury tax, moving Kirilenko would give them a lot of flexibility this summer with the Carlos Boozer negotiations.

Kings Trade

Francisco Garcia
Andres Nocioni

Jazz Trade

Andrei Kirilenko
Jazz 1st Round Pick

Why the Jazz do this: The Jazz move a huge Kirlenko contract and get 2 role players who fit nicely in the Sloan system. They save $3 million in salary plus the salary of their late 1st round pick. They would still have the Knicks lottery pick to retool, and Sloan would have 2 new toys at the forward/guard spots who can both shot and play some D. The Jazz would then be able to resign Boozer + Fesenko, and after a year, they could even get Kirilenko back too for a much better price if they want.

Why the Kings do this: To get 2 1st round picks, and move Nocioni. Kirilenko's $16 Million contract only runs for 1 more year, so they would have a bunch of cap space in 2011. With two 1st round picks, Geoffe is much more likely to find great young talent to retool the team with. Here's hoping for Kendrick Perkins in 2011 :).
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#19
#19
Arco Arena said:
Nocioni and Garcia are easily among the top 5 worst contracts in the league.

The Jazz are not stupid and definitely aren't interested in our junk.
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So, which 12 of the following contracts are better than Nocioni (2/$13.5M) and Garcia(3/$17.4M) so that Noc and Garcia end up easily in the 5 worst?

Gilbert Arenas (4/$80M)
Rashard Lewis (3/$63.5M)
Andre Iguodala (4/$56.5M)
Elton Brand (3/$51M)
Ben Gordon (4/$48M)
Hedo Turkoglu (4/$43.8M)
Baron Davis (3/$41.5M)
Charlie Villanueva (4/$32.2M)
Corey Maggette (3/$31M)
Desagana Diop (3/$26.8M)
Mo Williams (3/$26.3M)
Kirk Hinrich (2/$17M)
Luke Walton (3/$16.75M)
Peja Stojakovic (1/$14.25M)
Eddy Curry (1/$11.25M)

And it's not like there aren't other bad contracts. I just think that all of the above are obviously worse than Noc and Cisco, who may be a bit overpaid but not disastrously so.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#20
#20
Capt. Factorial said:
So, which 12 of the following contracts are better than Nocioni (2/$13.5M) and Garcia(3/$17.4M) so that Noc and Garcia end up easily in the 5 worst?

Gilbert Arenas (4/$80M)
Rashard Lewis (3/$63.5M)
Andre Iguodala (4/$56.5M)
Elton Brand (3/$51M)
Ben Gordon (4/$48M)
Hedo Turkoglu (4/$43.8M)
Baron Davis (3/$41.5M)
Charlie Villanueva (4/$32.2M)
Corey Maggette (3/$31M)
Desagana Diop (3/$26.8M)
Mo Williams (3/$26.3M)
Kirk Hinrich (2/$17M)
Luke Walton (3/$16.75M)
Peja Stojakovic (1/$14.25M)
Eddy Curry (1/$11.25M)

And it's not like there aren't other bad contracts. I just think that all of the above are obviously worse than Noc and Cisco, who may be a bit overpaid but not disastrously so.
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The Rashard Lewis contract hurts my head.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#22
#22
Tetsujin said:
The Rashard Lewis contract hurts my head.
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How would you have liked to have had the Tracy McGrady contract for the last couple of years. I believe he's making around 22 million this last season. Nocioni's and Cisco's contract are about normal for the talent level. And despite what some local experts might think, they are not junk. And I say that not being a big Nocioni fan..
 
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