Voisin: Up to Petrie to tidy up the mess of a team

#61
Listen people, I already said I'd be fine with rebuilding and just signing garbage free agents like Varejao. I just brought up another point too, that we could use the cap room on a guy like Billups. It's not like we might not get other players in trades anyway.
 
#62
if tanking means giving playing time to the younger players and living with their mistakes. i'm all for it

That's not tanking. That is among the first steps in rebuilding. Tanking is when the players and coached decide that winning is no longer important to them or that losing is more important so we can get a better draft pick. Once it becomes evident that we have NO CHANCE of making the playoffs, I say let the young ones have a shot. As long as there is a chance that we can make the playoffs, I think that we should put or BEST players with their BEST affort on the floor to win games.

By the way, it is still too early to count us out of the playoffs yet. I, for one, have been very negative as of late. I am going to try and stop that. I can be realistic without being as negative as I have been. I know that our chances of making the playoffs is VERY slim, but there is still a cahnce and I am going to cheer for that even if it depresses me in the end.

For me, the rebuilding should begin at the end of the season, if we are no longer in contention for the playoffs, sooner. It should happen with OFFSEASON trades. Mid-season trades have NOT been good for us. Not even Artest. That just gave us false hope. It should happen with drafting strong young players. It should happen with letting go of some our expiring contracts via trade or letting them walk. It should also happen with SMART free agent signings that address our weakness (front court). The catch here is that they have to WANT to come. Who wants to play for a team that gives up on winning before the season is even half way over? We don't have enough money for that.
 
#63
That's not tanking. That is among the first steps in rebuilding. Tanking is when the players and coached decide that winning is no longer important to them or that losing is more important so we can get a better draft pick. Once it becomes evident that we have NO CHANCE of making the playoffs, I say let the young ones have a shot. As long as there is a chance that we can make the playoffs, I think that we should put or BEST players with their BEST affort on the floor to win games.

By the way, it is still too early to count us out of the playoffs yet. I, for one, have been very negative as of late. I am going to try and stop that. I can be realistic without being as negative as I have been. I know that our chances of making the playoffs is VERY slim, but there is still a cahnce and I am going to cheer for that even if it depresses me in the end.

For me, the rebuilding should begin at the end of the season, if we are no longer in contention for the playoffs, sooner. It should happen with OFFSEASON trades. Mid-season trades have NOT been good for us. Not even Artest. That just gave us false hope. It should happen with drafting strong young players. It should happen with letting go of some our expiring contracts via trade or letting them walk. It should also happen with SMART free agent signings that address our weakness (front court). The catch here is that they have to WANT to come. Who wants to play for a team that gives up on winning before the season is even half way over? We don't have enough money for that.
if you wait till the end of the season then you take this draft out of the picture and that is not something you want to do if you're rebuilding.
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#64
Well the big stud draft pick would be one. Let's just say adding Mo Williams and Varejao (or even Darko) or some such is another if we cleared the cap room. If you can get that second draft pick that would be another. In an ideal world that's a lot of young talent to be imported in support of Kevin and whatever guys are leftover -- maybe a kid or two via those trades as well. And a full summer/camp to get it all organized.

There is no title here this year.

No title next year.

But if everything goes right, maybe we could emerge as an Orlando type team by the year after that. Proven young talent, something where free agents might be willing to come again.

As an aside, of all the vets with long deals, Brad might be the guy who would make the most sense to keep/retain in a rebuilding plan as a smart support player willing to stick it out and help maybe. But he's aging, has a bad contract, and Muss doesn't know how to use him.


So let's say you kept Brad, resiged Corliss, kept Salmons to fill some gaps. kept Kevin. Added the free agents mentioned. Traded Artest for Posey (ending) and Dorell Wright. Traded Bibby for a pick + ender. Dumped KT and SAR for maybe enders and a marginal talent or two.

C- Brad
PF- #1 pick (ours)
SF- Wright
OG- Martin
PG- Mo Williams

6th - Salmons
7th - Varejao
#1 pick (traded for)
Corliss

+ whatever else came from the Bibby/Reef/KT trades
+ Price or Douby or Cisco or Justin Williams, or whoever


That's a respectable young lineup. Won't win. But there's all kinds of upside if that big PF/C kid pans out. More if the Bibby deal is to a lace like Boston and brings back ayoung kid, or the SAR deal is to Chicago and brings back one etc. It would never happen exactly like that, but that general approach can yield coherent young squads with a future wihtout wasting money on old vets who aren't going to want to lose anyway. Might even miss the playoffs next year, but another lottery pocik would not hurt. Have a good summer, add a supporting piece or mkae an extra trade. Be ready to start scaring people again by 08.
WOW! ! ! That's like watching a new FOX basketball sitcom!! But why not? I think the Maloofs and Petrie want to win and make the playoffs, no matter how then they can more clearly see what rebuilding needs to be done.

Nobody is "tanking" it. I just think there are two kinds of chemistry:

(1) personal chemistry, personalities getting along or not as people and guys.

(2) team or game chemistry. Players may be best friends off the court but if their playing styles don't mesh or have much chance of meshing then that can be a "chemistry" problem.

I think the Kings have a BIG issue with #2 and other than maybe KT may (I stress may) be the only #1 issues all along. Don't know but seems this way.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#65
Oh no -- we can still make the playoffs. But you know what? At this point I am not at all sure how to feel if we make the playoffs. When you get down to it, of all the stupid, shallow, shortsighted things to do, that would be near the top of the list. Blunder on through, get exterminated like a bug in a Raid factory, blow our chance at a high draft pick stud, and kill the future along with the present. I think Kings management might be more than a little surprised to see attendance at a playoff game -- I have real doubts I would be buying those tickets. Another two, or at most, three, games at the end of the season, high percentage chance we lose each one, virtually no chance of advancing or mattering in the least, and all the while knowing that the whole futile exercise may have badly wounded our future prospects.

Barring some stupendous fix-all-the-team's-issues-at-once blockbuster trade, making the playoffs at this point is rapidly becoming icky. And that ick is going to make the next few months tough. How exactly do you feel after a regular season win if you suspect its damaging your future? How do you feel about a loss when maybe its actually helping you win next year? Very confusing. Furstration factor aside, I seriously think the best thing that could happen would be that we play 50 more Lakers games -- play well in competitive games (minus officiating), go to OT for a little extra excitement, and then lose every one. Well...we still have 3 more dates vs. the Lakers, so not EVERY one. ;)

In any case, of the many elephants in the room, that ranks near the top. We need a superstud, and there's no good way to get one except through the draft. Not just any draft, THIS draft. Ron is not that guy. We passed on A.I.. Both KG (winning) and Pau (no more Fratello) seem happier and settling in. The key event of the '98 offseason was obviously landing Chris Webber. We got a superstar via trade. Not only that, a YOUNG one. That's so hard to reproduce. This time it appears we are going to have to go get our own in the draft.

P.S. -- Note BTW, Pau is not a superstar, but he would be the closest thing to the Webb situation -- age, position played, maybe he blossoms, who knows. In an ideal world we tank down to get a Top 10 pick, somehow trade for Pau, keep Kevin, sign a FA and go. But the Grizzlies are not helmed by Wes Unseld, they are helmed by Jerry West. Barring a miracle we are going to have to do this without that windfall.
 
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#66
Well the big stud draft pick would be one. Let's just say adding Mo Williams and Varejao (or even Darko) or some such is another if we cleared the cap room. If you can get that second draft pick that would be another. In an ideal world that's a lot of young talent to be imported in support of Kevin and whatever guys are leftover -- maybe a kid or two via those trades as well. And a full summer/camp to get it all organized.

There is no title here this year.

No title next year.

But if everything goes right, maybe we could emerge as an Orlando type team by the year after that. Proven young talent, something where free agents might be willing to come again.

As an aside, of all the vets with long deals, Brad might be the guy who would make the most sense to keep/retain in a rebuilding plan as a smart support player willing to stick it out and help maybe. But he's aging, has a bad contract, and Muss doesn't know how to use him.


So let's say you kept Brad, resiged Corliss, kept Salmons to fill some gaps. kept Kevin. Added the free agents mentioned. Traded Artest for Posey (ending) and Dorell Wright. Traded Bibby for a pick + ender. Dumped KT and SAR for maybe enders and a marginal talent or two.

C- Brad
PF- #1 pick (ours)
SF- Wright
OG- Martin
PG- Mo Williams

6th - Salmons
7th - Varejao
#1 pick (traded for)
Corliss

+ whatever else came from the Bibby/Reef/KT trades
+ Price or Douby or Cisco or Justin Williams, or whoever


That's a respectable young lineup. Won't win. But there's all kinds of upside if that big PF/C kid pans out. More if the Bibby deal is to a lace like Boston and brings back ayoung kid, or the SAR deal is to Chicago and brings back one etc. It would never happen exactly like that, but that general approach can yield coherent young squads with a future wihtout wasting money on old vets who aren't going to want to lose anyway. Might even miss the playoffs next year, but another lottery pocik would not hurt. Have a good summer, add a supporting piece or mkae an extra trade. Be ready to start scaring people again by 08.
The ideal picks for us (assuming Oden or Durant aren't available) would be Wright or Horford. And a good mid round pick for us would be Mbah a Moute, he would be a talented project to take on. tiago splitter might fall too. i'm really hoping we get we a lottery and a mid pick in next year's draft.
 
#67
Oh no -- we can still make the playoffs. But you know what? At this point I am not at all sure how to feel if we make the playoffs. When you get down to it, of all the stupid, shallow, shortsighted things to do, that would be near the top of the list. Blunder on through, get exterminated like a bug in a Raid factory, blow our chance at a high draft pick stud, and kill the future along with the present. I think Kings management might be more than a little surprised to see attendance at a playoff game -- I have real doubts I would be buying those tickets. Another two, or at most, three, games at the end of the season, high percentage chance we lose each one, virtually no chance of advancing or mattering in the least, and all the while knowing that the whole futile exercise may have badly wounded our future prospects.

Barring some stupendous fix-all-the-team's-issues-at-once blockbuster trade, making the playoffs at this point is rapidly becoming icky. And that ick is going to make the next few months tough. How exactly do you feel after a regular season win if you suspect its damaging your future? How do you feel about a loss when maybe its actually helping you win next year? Very confusing. Furstration factor aside, I seriously think the best thing that could happen would be that we play 50 more Lakers games -- play well in competitive games (minus officiating), go to OT for a little extra excitement, and then lose every one. Well...we still have 3 more dates vs. the Lakers, so not EVERY one. ;)

In any case, of the many elephants in the room, that ranks near the top. We need a superstud, and there's no good way to get one except through the draft. Not just any draft, THIS draft. Ron is not that guy. We passed on A.I.. Both KG (winning) and Pau (no more Fratello) seem happier and settling in. The key event of the '98 offseason was obviously landing Chris Webber. We got a superstar via trade. Not only that, a YOUNG one. That's so hard to reproduce. This time it appears we are going to have to go get our own in the draft.

P.S. -- Note BTW, Pau is not a superstar, but he would be the closest thing to the Webb situation -- age, position played, maybe he blossoms, who knows. In an ideal world we tank down to get a Top 10 pick, somehow trade for Pau, keep Kevin, sign a FA and go. But the Grizzlies are not helmed by Wes Unseld, they are helmed by Jerry West. Barring a miracle we are going to have to do this without that windfall.
Yup.
 
#69
Yep, they're a mess, all right.........

Yes, this is a mess of a team. Jog & gun offense, and no defense. No ball movement. Selfish, stats-oriented players. Miller afraid to act like a center. That adds up to big problems, folks. This team is imploding right before our very eyes. Disgraceful........:cool:
 
#70
So let's say you kept Brad, resiged Corliss, kept Salmons to fill some gaps. kept Kevin. Added the free agents mentioned. Traded Artest for Posey (ending) and Dorell Wright. Traded Bibby for a pick + ender. Dumped KT and SAR for maybe enders and a marginal talent or two.

C- Brad
PF- #1 pick (ours)
SF- Wright
OG- Martin
PG- Mo Williams

6th - Salmons
7th - Varejao
#1 pick (traded for)
Corliss

+ whatever else came from the Bibby/Reef/KT trades
+ Price or Douby or Cisco or Justin Williams, or whoever
Sign me up. Just make sure you don't overspend on the Varelao/Williams combo and that you lose enough this season to get a top 4 pick and get Brandan Wright to man the 4 spot.