Voisin: Ranadive interview

Kingster said:
"One of the most interesting parts of the conversation, which Divac and D’Alessandro joined briefly, was Ranadive’s thought process behind the recent hirings. For someone who normally approaches problems in a methodical, analytical manner, his two most important and impressive changes seem more instinctive than calculating."

So far, Vivek's instincts have been downright sh**ty, which doesn't give me confidence about these moves. If Vlade is the ultimate decision maker and PDA has been put in the corner to do calculations and contract negotiations, Vlade becomes the de facto GM - the guy who really does pull the trigger on draft selections and trades and FA. Yet when Vivek is talking about Vlade, those skills aren't mentioned, that track record isn't referenced. (It's hard to reference something that doesn't exist). Vlade, the team builder, is referenced, not Vlade the GM. At this point these dots don't connect. If you want to go down the route of "In Vlade We Trust", then it's fine and dandy. Roll the dice and take a hang glider from Mt. Whitney on your introductory flight.
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I think you should rename yourself Mr. Positive. I always feel better after one of your posts...:rolleyes:
 
sdballer said:
Agreed. It's scary that all of our hopes in turning this thing around rely on another guy who has never done this at this level. Shows how bad things have become.
Click to expand...

You know, everybody on this forum thinks that they would be a better GM than PDA, so how hard can it be? Right! I mean everyone jumps at the chance to criticize, so they must know the right way to do things. Look, everyone has a first time for everything. Some fail, and some don't. Now maybe it's just me, but Vlade doesn't look like a person that fails. He's played in the league. He's owned his own team in europe. He's been a scout for the Lakers (ugh). It's not as though he just stepped off the train. We'll find out if he can judge talent or not, and how good he is at putting pieces together that work, which has been the main problem with this team. For the most part, it's not as though it had no talent. It's just that the talent they had were all ill fitting pieces. Or they were misused.

Even on this forum, its lets trade this guy, or get rid of that guy. The team has been a revolving door for players and coaches. No consistency, or chemistry. And not just on the team, but in the management end as well. Bickering and backstabbing was the order of the day. We will never become a contender until we have stability. And it has to start at the top. I know its popular to just step back and throw mud and anything and everyone connected to the organization right now, and no doubt that some of it is deserved. But as some point, don't we have to put the past behind us. I think Vivek could hire Jesus Christ, and some would complain about his lack of experience. I understand that people are upset. Patience has become a bad word. But like it or not, patience does need to be applied in some circumstances. Like with rookies.

Does anyone remember how much Gerald Wallace played as a rookie? Did anyone care? I mean really care. The answer is "not much", "No", and "No". But he went on to be a very good player, and an all star if memory serves. The only difference between Wallace and McLemore and Stauskas, is expecation. Nothing was expected from Wallace, but everything is expected from both McLemore and Stauskas. Sadly, rookies are almost looked upon as saviors. It takes the typical rookie three years to reach his potential. Not on the Kings. It's one or done for most fans. Jimmy Butler averaged eight and a half minutes a game his rookie year. And there were a lot of different reasons for that. But wouldn't the Bulls be kicking themselves right now if they had included him as a sweetener in a trade. Just saying! I'll shut up now.
 
bajaden said:
You know, everybody on this forum thinks that they would be a better GM than PDA, so how hard can it be? Right! I mean everyone jumps at the chance to criticize, so they must know the right way to do things. Look, everyone has a first time for everything. Some fail, and some don't. Now maybe it's just me, but Vlade doesn't look like a person that fails. He's played in the league. He's owned his own team in europe. He's been a scout for the Lakers (ugh). It's not as though he just stepped off the train. We'll find out if he can judge talent or not, and how good he is at putting pieces together that work, which has been the main problem with this team. For the most part, it's not as though it had no talent. It's just that the talent they had were all ill fitting pieces. Or they were misused.

Even on this forum, its lets trade this guy, or get rid of that guy. The team has been a revolving door for players and coaches. No consistency, or chemistry. And not just on the team, but in the management end as well. Bickering and backstabbing was the order of the day. We will never become a contender until we have stability. And it has to start at the top. I know its popular to just step back and throw mud and anything and everyone connected to the organization right now, and no doubt that some of it is deserved. But as some point, don't we have to put the past behind us. I think Vivek could hire Jesus Christ, and some would complain about his lack of experience. I understand that people are upset. Patience has become a bad word. But like it or not, patience does need to be applied in some circumstances. Like with rookies.

Does anyone remember how much Gerald Wallace played as a rookie? Did anyone care? I mean really care. The answer is "not much", "No", and "No". But he went on to be a very good player, and an all star if memory serves. The only difference between Wallace and McLemore and Stauskas, is expecation. Nothing was expected from Wallace, but everything is expected from both McLemore and Stauskas. Sadly, rookies are almost looked upon as saviors. It takes the typical rookie three years to reach his potential. Not on the Kings. It's one or done for most fans. Jimmy Butler averaged eight and a half minutes a game his rookie year. And there were a lot of different reasons for that. But wouldn't the Bulls be kicking themselves right now if they had included him as a sweetener in a trade. Just saying! I'll shut up now.
Click to expand...

Please don't shut up. You are right on in my view. We on here need more of the wisdom and perspective that you offer in this post. Keep 'em coming.

The quality that Vlade excels in is the quality we need the most. In my view we couldn't find a better pick than Vlade for this time and place and circumstance.
 
bajaden said:
You know, everybody on this forum thinks that they would be a better GM than PDA, so how hard can it be? Right! I mean everyone jumps at the chance to criticize, so they must know the right way to do things. Look, everyone has a first time for everything. Some fail, and some don't. Now maybe it's just me, but Vlade doesn't look like a person that fails. He's played in the league. He's owned his own team in europe. He's been a scout for the Lakers (ugh). It's not as though he just stepped off the train. We'll find out if he can judge talent or not, and how good he is at putting pieces together that work, which has been the main problem with this team. For the most part, it's not as though it had no talent. It's just that the talent they had were all ill fitting pieces. Or they were misused.

Even on this forum, its lets trade this guy, or get rid of that guy. The team has been a revolving door for players and coaches. No consistency, or chemistry. And not just on the team, but in the management end as well. Bickering and backstabbing was the order of the day. We will never become a contender until we have stability. And it has to start at the top. I know its popular to just step back and throw mud and anything and everyone connected to the organization right now, and no doubt that some of it is deserved. But as some point, don't we have to put the past behind us. I think Vivek could hire Jesus Christ, and some would complain about his lack of experience. I understand that people are upset. Patience has become a bad word. But like it or not, patience does need to be applied in some circumstances. Like with rookies.

Does anyone remember how much Gerald Wallace played as a rookie? Did anyone care? I mean really care. The answer is "not much", "No", and "No". But he went on to be a very good player, and an all star if memory serves. The only difference between Wallace and McLemore and Stauskas, is expecation. Nothing was expected from Wallace, but everything is expected from both McLemore and Stauskas. Sadly, rookies are almost looked upon as saviors. It takes the typical rookie three years to reach his potential. Not on the Kings. It's one or done for most fans. Jimmy Butler averaged eight and a half minutes a game his rookie year. And there were a lot of different reasons for that. But wouldn't the Bulls be kicking themselves right now if they had included him as a sweetener in a trade. Just saying! I'll shut up now.
Click to expand...

I think people are misunderstanding my point. I don't think Vlade was a bad hire. I was just saying that normally hiring an inexperienced guy to fix the problems a bunch of other inexperienced guys created wouldn't be a positive thing. But with how big a mess it was, most of us are looking at it as good news.
 
bajaden said:
Patience has become a bad word. But like it or not, patience does need to be applied in some circumstances. Like with rookies.
Click to expand...
I think some could be more patient in some respects but it's not a black and white issue for me. As far as player development, a lot will depend on what you personally see in a player. I see little point in being patient with Ray. I do however see plenty of reason to be patient with Nik who I feel has a pretty high ceiling.

But I think there's something lost in this patience talk. Us fans can be far more patient than players as a player's career is far shorter than our time as a fan. Whether we don't make the playoffs for 5, 10, even 15 years doesn't really effect our lives personally. A player's window is far shorter and effects him far more on a personal level. It's their career. And this is an important distinction to make as Cuz hasn't sniffed the playoffs in his 5 years. It would be an incredible step not to make it 6 years. I'm sure that bothers him far more than you or I. And 5 years from now you and I and many others will still be sitting on our couches watching this team while at that point Cuz will be nearing 30 and a number of his good years are behind him.

Point being, I don't get the impression the lack of patience or perceived lack of patience is as much due to being tired of not being a playoff team(although that obviously is a part of it) but rather the lack of patience is due to the thought of, we better start winning now so we don't lose our franchise center. That really is an important distinction to make. Winning so we keep a HOF talent from bolting/checking out/demanding a trade is far more important in the eyes of many than how Nik or Ben develop or how long it takes Vlade to adapt to his new position. We need results now. Lose Cuz and frankly, all the rest doesn't matter. I'd love to see Nik or Ben develop into Wallace level players down the road at some point, but I highly doubt that's what is on Cuz's mind when watching all his friends around the league playing in the postseason. At least for me, that's why I see a lack of patience around here.

And as a former athlete, as was I, I would think you'd agree with this. As a player, winning is the absolute priority. When on bad teams, it eats and eats and eats at you. Nothing worse than the feeling of walking off the field or court after a loss. Actually, only thing worse is looking around before the game and seeing teammates who don't fully believe they can win or aren't fully committed. And while the development of your teammates is good to see, you hope they improve and do well, it's simply not the priority when you're a player. You want to win. The patience to watch players develop over years is a luxury fans have. Players don't, especially after our lack of success over Cuz's half decade here.

Conclusion: I'd say the increased lack of patience is due to a number feeling we can't afford to have patience given the situation with Cuz. I like the Vlade hiring and have hopes for Karl after an offseason and training camp, but I'd also say we can't really be patient hoping it works. Karl has to work within two years or we lose Cuz. This current blueprint being executed simply has to work, and soon. I'd also say that's an incredibly fair and realistic concern to have.
 
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Patience, patience.....Kings were too patient with Jimmer when it was obvious he was a miss, Kings dumped TRob and quite frankly, it was for a better player in PPat, Kings have been fairly patient with Ray Mac and Ben. The problem with Stauskas is that it's a problem having 2 young SG's who need to develop. I think most people realize that we need a proven vet to help provide consistency at the position which doesn't leave room for 2 developing SG's.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't part of the deal with Gerald Wallace was that he was left unprotected during the expansion draft? For some reason that sticks in my head....the reason they didn't protect him was we had the core 7 or 8 vets and were looking at playoffs and couldn't afford to keep Wallace. I may be completely off though....'twas a long time ago.
 
I thought there was going to be another person hired in the Front Office? Am I mistaken or was this floated in the media? I expected some wise sage to be brought in to advise Vlade akin to Jerry West's role with GSW???
 
King Baller said:
I thought there was going to be another person hired in the Front Office? Am I mistaken or was this floated in the media? I expected some wise sage to be brought in to advise Vlade akin to Jerry West's role with GSW???
Click to expand...

It was hinted at but only through various talking heads, I believe.
 
dude12 said:
Patience, patience.....Kings were too patient with Jimmer when it was obvious he was a miss, Kings dumped TRob and quite frankly, it was for a better player in PPat, Kings have been fairly patient with Ray Mac and Ben. The problem with Stauskas is that it's a problem having 2 young SG's who need to develop. I think most people realize that we need a proven vet to help provide consistency at the position which doesn't leave room for 2 developing SG's.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't part of the deal with Gerald Wallace was that he was left unprotected during the expansion draft? For some reason that sticks in my head....the reason they didn't protect him was we had the core 7 or 8 vets and were looking at playoffs and couldn't afford to keep Wallace. I may be completely off though....'twas a long time ago.
Click to expand...

Wallace was left unprotected not because we couldn't afford to keep him but because we really didn't have a place for him because we had locked in Anthony Peeler (I think it was him, my memory might be failing in that regard). Wallace was kind of out of favor with the front office for his lackadaisical attitude and missing work ethic (things he found in Charlotte). There were some who wanted to expose Webber for the expansion draft on the theory the Bobcats wouldn't touch his salary, but it was only a fan's theory as Petrie was pretty adamant about putting Gerald Wallace on the block.
 
rainmaker said:
I think some could be more patient in some respects but it's not a black and white issue for me. As far as player development, a lot will depend on what you personally see in a player. I see little point in being patient with Ray. I do however see plenty of reason to be patient with Nik who I feel has a pretty high ceiling.

But I think there's something lost in this patience talk. Us fans can be far more patient than players as a player's career is far shorter than our time as a fan. Whether we don't make the playoffs for 5, 10, even 15 years doesn't really effect our lives personally. A player's window is far shorter and effects him far more on a personal level. It's their career. And this is an important distinction to make as Cuz hasn't sniffed the playoffs in his 5 years. It would be an incredible step not to make it 6 years. I'm sure that bothers him far more than you or I. And 5 years from now you and I and many others will still be sitting on our couches watching this team while at that point Cuz will be nearing 30 and a number of his good years are behind him.

Point being, I don't get the impression the lack of patience or perceived lack of patience is as much due to being tired of not being a playoff team(although that obviously is a part of it) but rather the lack of patience is due to the thought of, we better start winning now so we don't lose our franchise center. That really is an important distinction to make. Winning so we keep a HOF talent from bolting/checking out/demanding a trade is far more important in the eyes of many than how Nik or Ben develop or how long it takes Vlade to adapt to his new position. We need results now. Lose Cuz and frankly, all the rest doesn't matter. I'd love to see Nik or Ben develop into Wallace level players down the road at some point, but I highly doubt that's what is on Cuz's mind when watching all his friends around the league playing in the postseason. At least for me, that's why I see a lack of patience around here.

And as a former athlete, as was I, I would think you'd agree with this. As a player, winning is the absolute priority. When on bad teams, it eats and eats and eats at you. Nothing worse than the feeling of walking off the field or court after a loss. Actually, only thing worse is looking around before the game and seeing teammates who don't fully believe they can win or aren't fully committed. And while the development of your teammates is good to see, you hope they improve and do well, it's simply not the priority when you're a player. You want to win. The patience to watch players develop over years is a luxury fans have. Players don't, especially after our lack of success over Cuz's half decade here.

Conclusion: I'd say the increased lack of patience is due to a number feeling we can't afford to have patience given the situation with Cuz. I like the Vlade hiring and have hopes for Karl after an offseason and training camp, but I'd also say we can't really be patient hoping it works. Karl has to work within two years or we lose Cuz. This current blueprint being executed simply has to work, and soon. I'd also say that's an incredibly fair and realistic concern to have.
Click to expand...

I think if Cousins demands a trade next year, it will be due to this year. Meaning, the damage is already done. There is a danger in making it worse by mortgaging your future just to make the playoffs next season. Selling off your young talent and draft picks is fine when you're on the verge of a title and want to make that one last push. But to do that just to get to the bottom rung of the playoffs leaves you in a vulnerable positions. A team with a bunch of vets who have peaked in talent and no draft picks or developing talent to replace them. We will end up just like the Knicks.

We're all talking as if we are a SG away from being relevant. That's far from true. I'd prefer to keep our core together and the draft pick and see what a year under Karl does for elevating play. I think we could compete for that 8th seed with a healthy team and consistency in our lineup and philosophy. Fill in our bench with players that compliments Karls style. Then try to make a bigger jump next year.
 
VF21 said:
Wallace was left unprotected not because we couldn't afford to keep him but because we really didn't have a place for him because we had locked in Anthony Peeler (I think it was him, my memory might be failing in that regard).
Click to expand...

Well, the Peeler situation wasn't that we locked him in...it's that we didn't. By rule we had to expose somebody to the expansion draft, and we knew about it over a year in advance. We signed Peeler to a one-year deal with a player option the offseason before. Had we signed him to a two-year deal we could have exposed Peeler instead of Wallace, but instead Peeler was eligible to become a free agent (he did) and couldn't be exposed.

Our options were Bibby, Christie, Peja, Webber, Miller, Bobby, or Wallace. We made the right decision all things considered, but we should have planned better so we didn't have to.
 
If I remember correctly wasn't Gerald Wallace supposed to be the Kobe stopper? I think I remember him even saying that coming out of college into Sacramento.
 
nebs said:
If I remember correctly wasn't Gerald Wallace supposed to be the Kobe stopper? I think I remember him even saying that coming out of college into Sacramento.
Click to expand...

The only player/thing that has ever stopped Kobe are the injuries, and a hamburger, and Artest on a few rare night when he was in his prime. This from me who looks at all things Lakers with disdain:mad:
 
King Baller said:
The only player/thing that has ever stopped Kobe are the injuries, and a hamburger, and Artest on a few rare night when he was in his prime. This from me who looks at all things Lakers with disdain:mad:
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Yeah I realize that. Was just asking if anyone remembers him being labled as our Kobe Stopper when we drafted him.
 
This upcoming year is do or die in terms of improvement, Cuz already has removed any reference to Sacramento from his twitter page. Cant draw any conclusions from that but it sure doesnt look good.
 
Ok so why is our GM of basketball operations still here as a glorified accountant? That makes no sense whatsoever. Either fire him and add that title to Vlade, or demote his Gerbil @ss and send him to the basement.

Draft day.

Nuggets GM: Hi may I speak to the GM of your organization to discuss a trade?

Secretary: Sure I will put you on the line with PDA.

PDA: Hi this is PDA GM of the Sacramento Kings, how can I help you?

Nugz GM: Id like to discuss a trade involving Ty Lawson and perhaps Wilson Chandler.

PDA: Yo Vlade!! Nugz are on the line. Im gonna have you hold and ill transfer you to Vlade.

Nugz GM: ???????

Vlade: This is Vlade I will offer you Landry, Stauskas and our pick for Lawson and Wilson Chandler.

Vivek: Huh!! Stasukas!

Vlade: On second thought we offer Ben Mclemore instead of Stauskas, otherwise no one will beat Chris Mullin in a 3 point contest in training camp.

Nugz GM: Uhhhh ok sounds good to me, lets hammer out the financial details Vlade.

Vlade: Hey PDA, get your Gerbil behind over here! They want to talk financials. Here let me put PDA on the line.

Nugz GM: ?????????

Random Voice: I surround myself with people way smarter than me.

Nugz GM: Wtf??? Was that a ghost?

PDA: So I hear you need to speak to a financial wizard? Look I know w hat im doing guys im qualified. *Nervous laugh*

Nugz Gm: Ok wtf is going on over there? Is this some viral prank that you guys want to end up on ESPN with Michlele Beadle?

Vivek: Give me the phone dammit! How dare you I am surounded by people way smarter than me, everywhere I look, smarter, that guy over there? Smarter. You got that?

Nugz GM: Ok??? Sureeee.

Vivek: Good. Now lets go put a dent in this world.

Nugz GM: Ok on that note we'll keep in touch, dont call us we'll call you.


*With the 6th pick the Sacramento Kings select Kristaps Porzingis from from Prozdijanyaksstabydkas Lithuania*

*crickets*
 
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sdballer said:
I think people are misunderstanding my point. I don't think Vlade was a bad hire. I was just saying that normally hiring an inexperienced guy to fix the problems a bunch of other inexperienced guys created wouldn't be a positive thing. But with how big a mess it was, most of us are looking at it as good news.
Click to expand...

Just so you know, I wasn't responding to you in particular, I was just making a general statement in regards to the thread. So I didn't mean to sound like I was picking on you...
 
rainmaker said:
I think some could be more patient in some respects but it's not a black and white issue for me. As far as player development, a lot will depend on what you personally see in a player. I see little point in being patient with Ray. I do however see plenty of reason to be patient with Nik who I feel has a pretty high ceiling.

But I think there's something lost in this patience talk. Us fans can be far more patient than players as a player's career is far shorter than our time as a fan. Whether we don't make the playoffs for 5, 10, even 15 years doesn't really effect our lives personally. A player's window is far shorter and effects him far more on a personal level. It's their career. And this is an important distinction to make as Cuz hasn't sniffed the playoffs in his 5 years. It would be an incredible step not to make it 6 years. I'm sure that bothers him far more than you or I. And 5 years from now you and I and many others will still be sitting on our couches watching this team while at that point Cuz will be nearing 30 and a number of his good years are behind him.

Point being, I don't get the impression the lack of patience or perceived lack of patience is as much due to being tired of not being a playoff team(although that obviously is a part of it) but rather the lack of patience is due to the thought of, we better start winning now so we don't lose our franchise center. That really is an important distinction to make. Winning so we keep a HOF talent from bolting/checking out/demanding a trade is far more important in the eyes of many than how Nik or Ben develop or how long it takes Vlade to adapt to his new position. We need results now. Lose Cuz and frankly, all the rest doesn't matter. I'd love to see Nik or Ben develop into Wallace level players down the road at some point, but I highly doubt that's what is on Cuz's mind when watching all his friends around the league playing in the postseason. At least for me, that's why I see a lack of patience around here.

And as a former athlete, as was I, I would think you'd agree with this. As a player, winning is the absolute priority. When on bad teams, it eats and eats and eats at you. Nothing worse than the feeling of walking off the field or court after a loss. Actually, only thing worse is looking around before the game and seeing teammates who don't fully believe they can win or aren't fully committed. And while the development of your teammates is good to see, you hope they improve and do well, it's simply not the priority when you're a player. You want to win. The patience to watch players develop over years is a luxury fans have. Players don't, especially after our lack of success over Cuz's half decade here.

Conclusion: I'd say the increased lack of patience is due to a number feeling we can't afford to have patience given the situation with Cuz. I like the Vlade hiring and have hopes for Karl after an offseason and training camp, but I'd also say we can't really be patient hoping it works. Karl has to work within two years or we lose Cuz. This current blueprint being executed simply has to work, and soon. I'd also say that's an incredibly fair and realistic concern to have.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything you said. Particularly about Cousins. He's been more than patient up to now, and I agree, that at some point, his patience will run out. Not being a mind reader, I have no idea when that will be, but two years sounds more than reasonable. I also agree that being patient is something that has to be applied individually. If you (management) think a player is never going to reach his supposed potential, then there's no reason to be patient. Sometimes it's better to take your losses and move on. Bill Walsh used to say that is better to trade a player a year too early, than a year too late. For instance, maybe what we see with McLemore right now, is all we'll ever get. If true, then it might be better to trade him while the perception of his upside is still intact, than to keep him for another couple of years and let him prove that he'll never reach his upside.

I hope no one takes what I said about Ben as how I feel about him. I was just making up a scenario as an example. I'll leave the judging up to Vlade. For now.....
 
dude12 said:
Patience, patience.....Kings were too patient with Jimmer when it was obvious he was a miss, Kings dumped TRob and quite frankly, it was for a better player in PPat, Kings have been fairly patient with Ray Mac and Ben. The problem with Stauskas is that it's a problem having 2 young SG's who need to develop. I think most people realize that we need a proven vet to help provide consistency at the position which doesn't leave room for 2 developing SG's.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't part of the deal with Gerald Wallace was that he was left unprotected during the expansion draft? For some reason that sticks in my head....the reason they didn't protect him was we had the core 7 or 8 vets and were looking at playoffs and couldn't afford to keep Wallace. I may be completely off though....'twas a long time ago.
Click to expand...

No, your right, we lost Wallace in the expansion draft. But that has nothing to do with what I said. My reference to Wallace was to make the point about expectations. Because Wallace was drafted by a very good team (the Kings), not much was expected from him, and that's the case with almost all good teams. But when a rookie is drafted by a bad team, he suddenly looked at, as a potential savior of the team. The expectations are usually exaggerated and unrealistic. As a result, success and failure have different standards, and the rookie is put under for more pressure, than he would have on a better team. It's all about perception.
 
nebs said:
Yeah I realize that. Was just asking if anyone remembers him being labled as our Kobe Stopper when we drafted him.
Click to expand...

No one ever labeled Gerald as a Kobe stopper. However, as a rookie coming in, he made the comment that he couldn't wait to defend Kobe and shut him down. Or something to that extent. While most, myself included admired his confidence, no one took him seriously. I don't know if he took himself seriously.
 
bajaden said:
No one ever labeled Gerald as a Kobe stopper. However, as a rookie coming in, he made the comment that he couldn't wait to defend Kobe and shut him down. Or something to that extent. While most, myself included admired his confidence, no one took him seriously. I don't know if he took himself seriously.
Click to expand...
So you do remember thank you.
 
nebs said:
If I remember correctly wasn't Gerald Wallace supposed to be the Kobe stopper? I think I remember him even saying that coming out of college into Sacramento.
Click to expand...
I thought that was former Blazer Ruban Patterson
 
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