Voisin: Play some D or earn an F

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#1
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/basketball/kings/story/14246940p-15064710c.html

Ailene Voisin: Kings, play some 'D' - or earn an 'F'
By Ailene Voisin -- Bee Columnist
Published 2:15 am PDT Sunday, April 23, 2006


SAN ANTONIO - The white flag went up five minutes into the game, five minutes into the postseason, or right about the time Tony Parker darted past Mike Bibby, caught Brad Miller with his back turned, and scored another in an endless series of unmolested layups.

Bibby thrust his hands in the air, gesturing wildly.

Bibby turned and stared, screamed at no one, screamed at everyone.

Where was the help? Where were his teammates? Where was the defense?

Where were the Kings?

Parker could have sprinted all the way to France before any of the visitors placed so much as a fingernail on his 6-foot-2, 180-pound frame, his early exploits establishing a pattern that persisted throughout the worst playoff performance in Kings franchise history.

Again and again, as if playing against sore-kneed baby boomers at the Y, the fourth-year point guard curled around screens, sliced between would-be defenders, scored with the left hand, scored with the right hand. Or he penetrated and passed to an open teammate for similarly uncontested deep jumpers. Or he did something else, say, slipped underneath for five rebounds, furthering the Kings' misery and enhancing the feeble essence of their effort.

"We knew exactly what they were going to do, and we couldn't stop them," Bonzi Wells said in a locker room that, with the exception of Bibby, was surprisingly devoid of emotion. "Tony Parker sucked us into the lane and exposed our defense.

"We had a lot of different schemes and none of them worked."

Here's a thought.

Why not get close to your man?

With apologies to Eva Longoria - and no one is suggesting anyone inflict serious harm to her longtime boyfriend - but the Kings are desperate here. The options against the defending world champs are all physically painful, yet given the alternatives, better than anything else that comes to mind. Sac's reputation as a vastly improved defensive team is about 48 minutes from being gutted.

A repeat performance Tuesday night, and the Kings can gather their belongings, slink back to Sac, and reclaim their familiar standing among the league's consistently agreeable opponents.

One would hope that, at least for a night, they could emulate the world champs and make a little noise. Heck, why not "Pop" someone once in a while?

The next time Spurs coach Gregg Popovich directs Parker to attack the lane, send a subtle forearm into the Frenchman's midsection. The next time Manu Ginobili shreds a double-team, land an elbow to the hip. The next time Robert Horry, Michael Finley, Nick Van Exel, Brent Barry, etc., etc., etc., race into the deep corners, extend an arm and nick a wrist?

Ditto the next time Tim Duncan steps out and launches one of his patented bank shots, or backs into the lane for a turnaround, or hoists one of his half-hooks, or one of his step-throughs, or resorts to any of his other varied but amazingly basic tricks.

Someone, anyone.

Share your angst with the Spurs, or forget about it, forget about it all. The impressive midseason turnaround. The occasions when the ball was shared, when players collectively and eagerly pursued loose balls and rebounds, when the words of Ron Artest actually resonated. When the Kings of late 2005-06 actually seemed intent on establishing a new identity, embracing the fundamental concepts (defense and rebounding) that remain at the roots of any legitimate postseason program.

"We have to come with a different approach or maybe an entirely different game plan for Tuesday's game," offered Kenny Thomas. "It's not like the regular season anymore."

No, as the seedings indicate, the Spurs are the clearly superior team. Duncan is the most complete player in the game, and Parker and Ginobili are sensational counterparts. Additionally, the bench is deeper, the coaching is exceptional, and the home-court edge inside the AT&T Center is significant. But why assist in the execution? Why not at least offer the pretense of playing with a sense of purpose, of wanting to prolong life, and with the degree of intensity and mental acuity so common to the postseason, even among losing teams?

Instead, there was too much of the same. Brad Miller with one rebound. An astonishing 18 points in the paint allowed in the opening quarter. A pathetic disadvantage in rebounding (51-32). An early deficit that grew to 34 points before halftime.

Where were the Kings?

Better yet, who are the Kings?

We still don't know.

About the writer: Reach Ailene Voisin at (916) 321-1208 or avoisin@sacbee.com
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#2
Brace yourselves.

Seriously.

I'm about to say something I don't think I've ever said before about an Ailene Voisin article:


















WORD!!!

This article needs to be splattered all over the Kings locker room, they need to stand and read it aloud, they need to commit it to memory. Especially this part:

The next time Spurs coach Gregg Popovich directs Parker to attack the lane, send a subtle forearm into the Frenchman's midsection. The next time Manu Ginobili shreds a double-team, land an elbow to the hip. The next time Robert Horry, Michael Finley, Nick Van Exel, Brent Barry, etc., etc., etc., race into the deep corners, extend an arm and nick a wrist?

Ditto the next time Tim Duncan steps out and launches one of his patented bank shots, or backs into the lane for a turnaround, or hoists one of his half-hooks, or one of his step-throughs, or resorts to any of his other varied but amazingly basic tricks.
...






Okay, I'm feeling a little light-headed. I think I need to go rest...
 
#4
striker said:
So if you can't play with them injure them?
that's not what voison's saying. the spurs play physical. you have to match their toughness to beat them in the playoffs. sack up or go home, in other words.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#6
striker said:
So if you can't play with them injure them?
Yeah, striker. It's called defense and it's called committing personal fouls. They're legal, you know. Ask Bruce Bowen - or ask Manu Ginobili about his elbow into Ron's face.

No one is avocating INJURY. What we're saying is our team needs to toughen up, to play like the big boys - to play like the Spurs or the Pistons.

It was actually a type of compliment to the way your Spurs play. Too bad you didn't get it.

I do NOT ever want to see our players intentionally injure another player. and I certainly do not want this to turn into some kind of brawl. I do, however, want to see my Kings play some tough defense and that means actually touching a member of the other team once in a while.
 
#7
"The next time Manu Ginobili shreds a double-team, land an elbow to the hip."

Excuse me but isn't that the way you get a hip pointer that can take you out of series. Sounds to me that's what Voison's implying. I guess that's what you want your kids to read and turn around and do.

"Yhea and maybe injure them a little in the process. they sure didn't mind doing so to Ron early on."

There's a difference between deliberate and intentional.

And it really doesn't matter, Fortson, James, Evans and Collison tried it last year as did Martin and Melo. You'll have to injure the Spurs and take them out yuo won't intimidate them.
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#8
striker said:
"The next time Manu Ginobili shreds a double-team, land an elbow to the hip."

Excuse me but isn't that the way you get a hip pointer that can take you out of series. Sounds to me that's what Voison's implying. I guess that's what you want your kids to read and turn around and do.

"Yhea and maybe injure them a little in the process. they sure didn't mind doing so to Ron early on."

There's a difference between deliberate and intentional.

And it really doesn't matter, Fortson, James, Evans and Collison tried it last year as did Martin and Melo. You'll have to injure the Spurs and take them out yuo won't intimidate them.
No, there really isn't much of a difference between deliberate and intentional. There is, however, a difference between intentional and flagrant. What I saw in the first seconds of the game yesterday was a deliberate and perhaps even flagrant foul when Ginobili flailed his off-arm around and caught Ron full in the face with his elbow. I suspect the only reason the officials didn't call it a flagrant was because it was unexpected and happened right at the beginning of the game.

As far as the Kings intimidating anyone, what we're doing here is bemoaning the fact that our team pretty much just laid back and let the Spurs do whatever they wanted. OUR team didn't play any defense.

Voisin has said what a lot of us feel. We want them to play some hard defense. No different than what your guys - Bowen and Manu immediately come to mind - do on a regular basis along with the other top teams in the league.

We (at least most of us who aren't speaking more out of frustration than anything else) do not advocate violence or serious injury. Sorry if you think that's what Voisin meant. Apparently you need to read more of her articles because you clearly missed the point - both hers AND ours.

Have a nice day.
 
#9
striker said:
There's a difference between deliberate and intentional.
Wow...and all this time, I thought those were basically the same thing. And Voison wasn't really telling the players to intentionally or deliberately injure anyone. She meant they need to play really tough, physical defense. If that causes an elbow to the hip or an elbow giving someone a fat, split lip (Manu to Ron), then that's a result of playing tough and physical, not the intention.
 
#10
This article reads (especially the ection highlighted by VF21) like something that Celt would write. Straight from his book. The one he "borrowed" from Jerry Sloan. ;)

But seriously, anyone who has any doubts about this article or the message contained in it, should watch more carefully. Like Bulls last night almost stealing one in Miami by doing exactly what Voisin is writing about. Or even better, what Spurs did to us!
 
#11
In other words play like the Spurs played us! Did you see Bibby's face all battered and bruised. Ron's lip busted wide open. Play tough dang it!

Of course we don't want to take to a "Sloan" level. Thats just dirty.
 
#13
That was supposed to be deliberate vs unintentional not intentional.

I think it's a big stretch to say Ginobili deliberately tried to hit Artest with the elbow but if that's how you want to justify taking cheap shots go for it.

Like I said it doesn['t matter. If you think the Spurs can be intimidated by cheap shots you didn't watch last years Spurs- Nuggets or Spurs - Sonics series.
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#14
striker said:
That was supposed to be deliberate vs unintentional not intentional.

I think it's a big stretch to say Ginobili deliberately tried to hit Artest with the elbow but if that's how you want to justify taking cheap shots go for it.

Like I said it doesn['t matter. If you think the Spurs can be intimidated by cheap shots you didn't watch last years Spurs- Nuggets or Spurs - Sonics series.
striker, you deliberately (as in intentionally) ignore what everyone is saying. Over and over we say that "cheap shots" are not the way to go....by anyone. What we want to see is our guys playing tough physical defense.....the same kind of defense that your Spurs play. What the hell is wrong with that? :rolleyes:
 
#15
striker said:
I think it's a big stretch to say Ginobili deliberately tried to hit Artest with the elbow but if that's how you want to justify taking cheap shots go for it.
If that is in reference to my post, please re-read. I said things like that are the result of tough, physical play, NOT the result of intention. So how is that a cheap shot?
 
#16
Last post on the thread for me.

Voison's words "The next time Spurs coach Gregg Popovich directs Parker to attack the lane, send a subtle forearm into the Frenchman's midsection. The next time Manu Ginobili shreds a double-team, land an elbow to the hip. deliberate elbow" qualifies to me as cheap shots.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#17
striker said:
That was supposed to be deliberate vs unintentional not intentional.

I think it's a big stretch to say Ginobili deliberately tried to hit Artest with the elbow but if that's how you want to justify taking cheap shots go for it.

Like I said it doesn['t matter. If you think the Spurs can be intimidated by cheap shots you didn't watch last years Spurs- Nuggets or Spurs - Sonics series.
Quite being delusional. Manu used his off-arm very effectively to smack Ron right in the mouth. It wasn't an accident. He didn't even look back after the contact and the whistle to see if Ron was okay.

OUR team hasn't taken any cheap shots. We aren't advocating that they do so. We're saying our team has to step up and play tough DEFENSE. What part of that can't you understand?
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#18
striker said:
Last post on the thread for me.

Voison's words "The next time Spurs coach Gregg Popovich directs Parker to attack the lane, send a subtle forearm into the Frenchman's midsection. The next time Manu Ginobili shreds a double-team, land an elbow to the hip. deliberate elbow" qualifies to me as cheap shots.
So you've never heard of the use of exaggeration to prove a point?

As I said, it's OBVIOUS you haven't read much Voisin. We know what she's talking about. We're saying we don't want our team to come out and play dirty. If we did want that, don't you think we'd come right out and say it? Please don't put words into our mouths or assume for some secret reason that we're talking in code and that we actually want our Kings to play dirty basketball.

That's not what we or our team are all about. Never have been.
 
#19
striker said:
Last post on the thread for me.

Voison's words "The next time Spurs coach Gregg Popovich directs Parker to attack the lane, send a subtle forearm into the Frenchman's midsection. The next time Manu Ginobili shreds a double-team, land an elbow to the hip. deliberate elbow" qualifies to me as cheap shots.
And the sound you hear is the point of my post sailing over your head. Oh well.
 
#20
VF21 said:
Brace yourselves.

Seriously.

I'm about to say something I don't think I've ever said before about an Ailene Voisin article:
















WORD!!!

This article needs to be splattered all over the Kings locker room, they need to stand and read it aloud, they need to commit it to memory. Especially this part:


The next time Spurs coach Gregg Popovich directs Parker to attack the lane, send a subtle forearm into the Frenchman's midsection. The next time Manu Ginobili shreds a double-team, land an elbow to the hip. The next time Robert Horry, Michael Finley, Nick Van Exel, Brent Barry, etc., etc., etc., race into the deep corners, extend an arm and nick a wrist?

Ditto the next time Tim Duncan steps out and launches one of his patented bank shots, or backs into the lane for a turnaround, or hoists one of his half-hooks, or one of his step-throughs, or resorts to any of his other varied but amazingly basic tricks.





Okay, I'm feeling a little light-headed. I think I need to go rest...
I only have you at your WORD!!!
 
#21
"We knew exactly what they were going to do, and we couldn't stop them," Bonzi Wells said in a locker room that, with the exception of Bibby, was surprisingly devoid of emotion. "Tony Parker sucked us into the lane and exposed our defense.
This bothers me. Maybe I am reading too much into it and it is an AV article, but I would think that they would be a bit angry, certainly emtional on some level. You don't get embarrassed like that and not be mad. Oh well.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#22
striker said:
I only have you at your WORD!!!
So? What is your problem? Oddly enough, you're over here on a Kings board whining about an article a Bee sports columnist had that said we need to play defense.

It sounds as though you're worried that if we don't encourage our team to just lie down and let the Spurs walk all over them that you might lose a game or two?

Geez. Get a grip.

How many times are you going to INTENTIONALLY misunderstand the point?

Maybe I should start a poll...
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#23
chelle said:
This bothers me. Maybe I am reading too much into it and it is an AV article, but I would think that they would be a bit angry, certainly emtional on some level. You don't get embarrassed like that and not be mad. Oh well.
You are reading WAY too much into it. The locker room was devoid of emotion because most of them appeared shell-shocked. The interviews they showed after the game were very telling. The look in the eyes of the players were consistent, with the exception of Kenny Thomas, who didn't look affected much at all. The rest of the guys looked like they'd just been humiliated on national TV and would rather go crawl in a hole than have to talk to the media about it.
 
#24
VF21 said:
You are reading WAY too much into it. The locker room was devoid of emotion because most of them appeared shell-shocked. The interviews they showed after the game were very telling. The look in the eyes of the players were consistent, with the exception of Kenny Thomas, who didn't look affected much at all. The rest of the guys looked like they'd just been humiliated on national TV and would rather go crawl in a hole than have to talk to the media about it.
Now that makes sense! (Except KT). thanks
 
#25
i'm all for tougher D. just don't be playing dirty. it is possible to be tough without commiting fouls or be dirty, the kings need to do that the rest of the series.
 
#26
Nah, everybody just calm down. THIS IS playoff, ofcourse things could go nastier and wilder. It's no place for wussy BBall, EVERYBODY knows that................................. It's just, i think players and coaches know, if they do an INTENTIONAL cheapshot toward their opponents, it's just like two sided sword, 'cause the opponents could do the same thing aswell toward your self. And the refs tend to punish the instigator, not to mention the recent ruling that protects perimeter and penetrator players even more.................And Striker has a point, a hardball approach toward the Spurs, especially to their BIG three, doesn't really works, proven in last year playoff run.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#27
striker said:
Last post on the thread for me.

Voison's words "The next time Spurs coach Gregg Popovich directs Parker to attack the lane, send a subtle forearm into the Frenchman's midsection. The next time Manu Ginobili shreds a double-team, land an elbow to the hip. deliberate elbow" qualifies to me as cheap shots.
Its also known as good defense.

In a contact sport, physically punishing and intimidating your opponent is ALWAYS a good play. The line is drawn when you actually try to start injuring them.
 
#29
I thought this article hit the nail on the head. And I agree, they need to play much more physical, if they are going to foul someone then FOUL someone, no little pathetic slaps on the wrists or pushes in the lower back when someone is already dunking. I think by playing physical it will make the Spurs think twice before driving the lane, and it couldn't hurt that's for sure. I don't think it's playing dirty, it's playing tough. I would love to see the Kings set the tone right from the start and show that they are here to stay (something along the lines of Chris Webber nailing John Stockton at the beginning of the playoffs- but maybe not as blatant...)