Voisin: Martin / Evans not working

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm not sure why people making things so complicated. This KMart/Evans thing has nothing to do with Evans. His game hasn't changed, meaning KMart hasn't affected his game. If anything he also allow KMart not to be the focus point. KMart is getting look and get a decent amount of shot.

Evans game hasnt changed. Which still brings up the point if he can't play with Martin then what type of shooting guard can he play with?
 
Tyreke has improved in setting up his teammates lately, but unfortunately that has coincided with his teammates losing the ability to hit an open shot. In November, the team shot 49% overall and 40% from three. In January that has become 42% and 31%.
 
thats funny, it sucks for the fans and the team as a whole... but its funny. it happened a few times in last nights game, evans grabbed the ball and ran down the court full speed, kevin and casspi were running with him; side by side and evans still drove into 2 warriors. on a 3 on 2 fastbreak....

I remember that play as well...didn't like it either. He still have a lot to learn about believing in his teammate even if they stink it up a few play earlier.
 
From todays rookie report

Big deal, its stats.. If you watch the game you can see reke is making plays for other players and it dosent always end up in asts for him. JT and Hawes miss so many wide open gimmies from reke that he prolly looses 2-3 asts a game right there alone. Id say 5 asts a game is pretty good for being your teams best scorer. Hes trying to balance both scoring and passing and hes doing a fine job so far, for a rookie pg.
 
Last edited:
Evans game hasnt changed. Which still brings up the point if he can't play with Martin then what type of shooting guard can he play with?

great defender, tough as nails, lethal outside shooter, can handle the ball some, doesn't need a lot of shots but can take them, big enough to cause the mismatch problem so the opposing PG can't cheat and guard him effectively.

more like Doug Christe, less like Michael Redd
 
This article was rediculous and again Voisin shows herself to be completely biased and not afraid to ignore the facts on the basketball court.

This could almost be one of her old articles about how mean mr Webber was ruining beautiful Peja's shot at being great. If the media is going to start attacking Tyreke over Kevin shooting 1-9 and missing open shots then I'm even more in favor of getting rid of Kevin ASAP.
 
Evans game hasnt changed. Which still brings up the point if he can't play with Martin then what type of shooting guard can he play with?

He plays fine with Donte Greene or Ime Udoka or Beno. I bet he'd play fine with Cisco. In fact I'll go out on a limb and say he'll play great with anyone who plays defense and isn't shooting like shaq shoots free throws.

Kevin has shot:
1-7
1-7
1-9

in his last three games. He hasn't been missing or taking difficult shots. In lots of cases Tyreke has gotten him wide open jumpers which he is just missing. In fact Kevin has had more open jumpers than those numbers dictate because last night he even started passing up open shots because he is shooting terribly.

I'd imagine if those numbers were closer to 55% (which i think is a fair % for Kevin to make on wide open mid range jumpers) A lot of people would probably be talking about the great adjustment Tyreke has made and how well the two fit together. Kevin just hasn't been shooting well. It's not Tyreke's fault he hasn't made open shots. It's also not an indicator Kevin's a bad player, just that he doesn't have his feet under him.

I know this is a banner moment for the Rubio folks to say SEE SEE he's not a PG, but that ignores the fact he had been starting with Donte and had done fine before Kmart..

(it also ignores the games actually being played but the "tyreke isn't a PG" croud never let that get in the way of putting down their teams 20 year old star)
 
I remember that play as well...didn't like it either. He still have a lot to learn about believing in his teammate even if they stink it up a few play earlier.


i was so mad, martin couldve gotten an easy layup to get him going. once you see the ball go in a few times it becomes easier. evans said to hell with my team mates ahead of me and sped up just so he wouldnt have to pass it.

i was like, :eek: are you serious evans?
 
SHE'S BACK! I like to disagree with her but its hard to say that two people who need the ball to be effective can fit well together. One of the 2 players needs to learn some intangibles, and I think Evans could benefit from taking a backseat to the Martin 1st experiment. Evans still scores 20, but he focuses on defense and assists, and only scores when the opportunity arises. Not that i don't like the current way things are done, but if we try this and Martin still isn't getting us wins, then we KNOW 100% that he isn't going to fit. Right now, it looks like there is a 40% chance Martin won't be employed by the kings come Feb. 2011.
 
He plays fine with Donte Greene or Ime Udoka or Beno. I bet he'd play fine with Cisco. In fact I'll go out on a limb and say he'll play great with anyone who plays defense and isn't shooting like shaq shoots free throws.

Kevin has shot:
1-7
1-7
1-9

in his last three games. He hasn't been missing or taking difficult shots. In lots of cases Tyreke has gotten him wide open jumpers which he is just missing. In fact Kevin has had more open jumpers than those numbers dictate because last night he even started passing up open shots because he is shooting terribly.

I'd imagine if those numbers were closer to 55% (which i think is a fair % for Kevin to make on wide open mid range jumpers) A lot of people would probably be talking about the great adjustment Tyreke has made and how well the two fit together. Kevin just hasn't been shooting well. It's not Tyreke's fault he hasn't made open shots. It's also not an indicator Kevin's a bad player, just that he doesn't have his feet under him.

I know this is a banner moment for the Rubio folks to say SEE SEE he's not a PG, but that ignores the fact he had been starting with Donte and had done fine before Kmart..

(it also ignores the games actually being played but the "tyreke isn't a PG" croud never let that get in the way of putting down their teams 20 year old star)


i stopped talking about it(tyreke not being a pg) because his play did it for me. last night was a perfect example. even if kevin isnt shooting well coming back from a wrist injury on his shooting hand.... that doesnt mean that evans can completely stop passing the ball to the other 3 players on the court with him.

its hilarious that you try to dismiss what section 101 posted, but you would have no problem using stats to defend tyreke. he's averaging 20/5/5 whooo.... why is he dead last in assists ratio? why is he a black hole on offense with a team full of shooters? even if they miss shots the only way they will make one is if the "pg" sets them up as opposed to using them to bail himself out. tyreke as a pg is a gimmick... petrie and westphal need to give it up and trade martin. its the only way to not look stupid for the rest of the season.

but wait.... tyreke is a blackhole on offense, he cant play pg but at the same time he cant play with a pg because he is completely inept when it comes to playing without the ball. the grizzlies look like geniuses for taking thabeet, we all knew he'd be a project and they didnt really need him this season because they got randolph, another blackhole on offense. but it works because he isnt a pg..... he's a pf, they needed a pf to put next to gasol. even with mayo and gay, i bet the grizzlies would be in our situation right now had they taken tyreke... he isnt a pg. thats probably why the passed on him. same goes for the thunder, he wasnt the player that they needed...

we on the other hand needed a pass first pg to direct our fleet of soft jump shooters and ended up with a ballhogging sg masquerading as a pg. badly... masquerading as a pg. he can score, that was never an issue. we needed a quarterback out there making plays but we have a running back blowing through defenders and we still lose....

are you serious?
 
Big deal, its stats.. If you watch the game you can see reke is making plays for other players and it dosent always end up in asts for him. JT and Hawes miss so many wide open gimmies from reke that he prolly looses 2-3 asts a game right there alone. Id say 5 asts a game is pretty good for being your teams best scorer. Hes trying to balance both scoring and passing and hes doing a fine job so far, for a rookie pg.

So other point guards arent losing 2-3 assists per game because teammates miss shots?
 
From todays rookie report

But there is a downside to his scoring success. Evans ranks 29th of 30 starting point guards in assist ratio (the percentage of a player's possessions that end in an assist), ahead of only Rodney Stuckey, likewise a score-first guard. Evans' rate of 18.1 percent is below that of guys like Tony Allen, Josh Smith and Larry Hughes. Sacramento's offense, once a top-10-to-15 unit, is down to No. 20, and the Kings have won just twice since Christmas.

wow... how is he behind josh smith.... :eek:
 
"Fortunately for the Kings – and his career – he seemed more like his former self Tuesday night against the depleted Golden State Warriors. He ran the floor, cut fast and hard, played with energy, played with passion, did most things well except convert his rusty outside shot. He scored only five points on 1-of-9 shooting. "

Voisin either did not watch the same game I did, or she is spinnig this article to fit her agenda. Kevins missed shots don't bother me that much. It's tough to watch, I've never seen him struggle on offense this much, but thats not the main problem here.

Last night I saw a complete lack of effort by Kevin on defense. It stuck out like a sore thumb. In the 2nd, Kevin, Beno, Noc, May, and Omri were on the floor together. The other four guys were playing their hearts out, going after every loose ball, and Kevin clearly wasn't displaying half the heart the others were. In the 3rd, and early 4th, he couldn't guard Watson to save his life. For Voisin to imply that Kevin "cut fast and hard, played with energy, and played with passion," is absolutely rediculous, and does not come off as objective at all. This type of crap coming from Voisin doesn't surprise me anymore.

Kevin is an extremely talented basketball player. I have always been a fan of his, and still am. But I have to call it like I see it when I say he doesn't fit anymore. I wanted to give Kevin and Tyreke a chance to play together, and thought it would work out. I'm disappointed is hasn't. It could get better, we will have to wait and see. One thing is certain, Kevin is a far superior scorer than he is showing he is right now. He will get both his touch, and his rythm back. Thats not my concern. My concern is that with his shot not falling, he still has not picked up the intensity level on defense. He sat courtside the entire time he was out, and saw the new identity this team took on. It was all about hustle. Playing hard. Out working the other team. Kevin knows this. Everyone knows this. Yet, Kevin still has not shown the desire to fit in with the rest of the guys. I'm not talking about facial expressions, or being vocal. I'm talking about not being near his guy when being run through screens. Not hustling out and contesting 3 pt shots like he should. Not helping on defense. I saw a few loose balls he could have gotten last night, but didn't even attempt to go after.

I hate the fact that this is what I'm seeing. This isn't what I expected to see. Kevins in a slump offensively, but he will get himself out of it. He has far too much talent not to. But whether or not the shots are falling, he has to hustle, he has to play defense. So far, Kevin hasn't been willing to do that. He looks disinterested. Whether or not Donte and Omri are hitting shots, they go 110%. They give it there all, and are able to contribute in other ways. kevin almost seems to have given up now that his shots aren't falling.

I thought I would see a different KMart upon his return. Whether or not he's hitting his shots, I thought I would see a player attacking the boards, hustling for loose balls, talking on defense, and attempting to be more physical of defense. I thought he would really get after it, and do his best to put forth the same effort as the other guys. He hasn't.

cosigned. He's not playing D and he's not hitting his shots. He's just not doing anything positive on the floor right now unfortunately. Reke set Kevin up with plenty of good shots last night too btw, and Kevin passed them all up or missed all of those wide open shots.
 
tyreke couldnt set himself up for a shot at this point, hahaha... i said point, tyreke, hilarious.... ;):D:cool:
 
So other point guards arent losing 2-3 assists per game because teammates miss shots?

im just saying he would be up there in asts if he had some bigs that could finish like bigs.
dont even know why im arguing about reke, his passing isnt the problem he just needs more consistent finishers other then beno/casspi to pass to. i thought his asts were gonna go up when kmart came back, but dude cant hit a shot and looks shook out there the whole game.
 
Must be good time for the Rubio fanatics to come on board. :rolleyes:


i wish, i hate watching my team struggle...

it wouldve been bittersweet but its more like bland and tasteless... the sad part is that tyreke will still more than likely win rookie of the year. he's been a complete failure as a pg but will still win it because he scores more points than jennings, rubio is overseas and griffin is out for the season. flynn never stood a chance and curry waited too long to catch fire.
 
i stopped talking about it(tyreke not being a pg) because his play did it for me. last night was a perfect example. even if kevin isnt shooting well coming back from a wrist injury on his shooting hand.... that doesnt mean that evans can completely stop passing the ball to the other 3 players on the court with him.

its hilarious that you try to dismiss what section 101 posted, but you would have no problem using stats to defend tyreke. he's averaging 20/5/5 whooo.... why is he dead last in assists ratio? why is he a black hole on offense with a team full of shooters? even if they miss shots the only way they will make one is if the "pg" sets them up as opposed to using them to bail himself out. tyreke as a pg is a gimmick... petrie and westphal need to give it up and trade martin. its the only way to not look stupid for the rest of the season.

but wait.... tyreke is a blackhole on offense, he cant play pg but at the same time he cant play with a pg because he is completely inept when it comes to playing without the ball. the grizzlies look like geniuses for taking thabeet, we all knew he'd be a project and they didnt really need him this season because they got randolph, another blackhole on offense. but it works because he isnt a pg..... he's a pf, they needed a pf to put next to gasol. even with mayo and gay, i bet the grizzlies would be in our situation right now had they taken tyreke... he isnt a pg. thats probably why the passed on him. same goes for the thunder, he wasnt the player that they needed...

we on the other hand needed a pass first pg to direct our fleet of soft jump shooters and ended up with a ballhogging sg masquerading as a pg. badly... masquerading as a pg. he can score, that was never an issue. we needed a quarterback out there making plays but we have a running back blowing through defenders and we still lose....

are you serious?

OH YES, LETS SEND EVANS PACKING b4 the trade deadline
 
i wish, i hate watching my team struggle...

it wouldve been bittersweet but its more like bland and tasteless... the sad part is that tyreke will still more than likely win rookie of the year. he's been a complete failure as a pg but will still win it because he scores more points than jennings, rubio is overseas and griffin is out for the season. flynn never stood a chance and curry waited too long to catch fire.

lol where have you been at? jennings has been terrible for like 2.5 months.. Hes shooting 38 %... and only averagin 1.5 more asts per game then reke. Rekes shootin 46 % so if Jennings ever stood a chance he would have to stop being the chucker that he is and get that BRUTAL percentage up.

Curry is clearly the second best rookie and will give Reke a run for ROY.
 
OH YES, LETS SEND EVANS PACKING b4 the trade deadline

that would be dumb unless we somehow get chris paul or somebody like that. but lets be real here people... he isnt a pg. he's doing a worse job at pg this season than beno did last season. he just scores a lot more. being a sg does that.
 
the sad part is that tyreke will still more than likely win rookie of the year. he's been a complete failure as a pg but will still win it because he scores more points than jennings, rubio is overseas and griffin is out for the season. flynn never stood a chance and curry waited too long to catch fire.

:confused::confused:

sad because we got a ROY.

Rubio? Griffin? who the hell are they?
You wishing other guards would of done better than Evans just so he doesn't win ROY...:eek:

I mean I don't like the way he handle the ball this far, thus he hasn't proven to be a "good" PG. Nevertheless he is our PG. He is improving in the TO if you look from how he started to where he is now. More importantly, he is capable of carrying the team to victory, making play when play is needed, his offense is up there with the best and his defense is very good if not great for a rookie. His jumpshot is improving as well, earlier in the season I would be nervous when he shoots but his form is getting better. That is why he is ROY.

I'm glad to pick this one over brokeback Griffin and disappearing Rubio any day.
 
i stopped talking about it(tyreke not being a pg) because his play did it for me. last night was a perfect example. even if kevin isnt shooting well coming back from a wrist injury on his shooting hand.... that doesnt mean that evans can completely stop passing the ball to the other 3 players on the court with him.

its hilarious that you try to dismiss what section 101 posted, but you would have no problem using stats to defend tyreke. he's averaging 20/5/5 whooo.... why is he dead last in assists ratio? why is he a black hole on offense with a team full of shooters? even if they miss shots the only way they will make one is if the "pg" sets them up as opposed to using them to bail himself out. tyreke as a pg is a gimmick... petrie and westphal need to give it up and trade martin. its the only way to not look stupid for the rest of the season.

but wait.... tyreke is a blackhole on offense, he cant play pg but at the same time he cant play with a pg because he is completely inept when it comes to playing without the ball. the grizzlies look like geniuses for taking thabeet, we all knew he'd be a project and they didnt really need him this season because they got randolph, another blackhole on offense. but it works because he isnt a pg..... he's a pf, they needed a pf to put next to gasol. even with mayo and gay, i bet the grizzlies would be in our situation right now had they taken tyreke... he isnt a pg. thats probably why the passed on him. same goes for the thunder, he wasnt the player that they needed...

we on the other hand needed a pass first pg to direct our fleet of soft jump shooters and ended up with a ballhogging sg masquerading as a pg. badly... masquerading as a pg. he can score, that was never an issue. we needed a quarterback out there making plays but we have a running back blowing through defenders and we still lose....

are you serious?


I was going to create a long detailed post refuting your points one by one, but people have done that before with you and you just ignore the facts and continuously put down certain Kings players regardless of how they feel. It's just a waste of time to deal with you.
 
:confused::confused:

sad because we got a ROY.

Rubio? Griffin? who the hell are they?
You wishing other guards would of done better than Evans just so he doesn't win ROY...:eek:

I mean I don't like the way he handle the ball this far, thus he hasn't proven to be a "good" PG. Nevertheless he is our PG. He is improving in the TO if you look from how he started to where he is now. More importantly, he is capable of carrying the team to victory, making play when play is needed, his offense is up there with the best and his defense is very good if not great for a rookie. His jumpshot is improving as well, earlier in the season I would be nervous when he shoots but his form is getting better. That is why he is ROY.

I'm glad to pick this one over brokeback Griffin and disappearing Rubio any day.


im not saying that, im just saying that he'll win it and he isnt even playing well... he's scoring but that was never a problem for us. martin injury was a gift from god for all of you evans supporters, it saved you from watching this all season long. if he were a pg he wouldnt have any problem playing with a sg.

what happened to griffin is messed up, i cant wait to see how he plays next year. rubio, i wont be seeing anytime soon in the nba; that doesnt bother me. but tyreke playing like crap does. so what if he scores 20 points, he couldnt pass the ball to a teammate to save his life. with the way he's passing i doubt his teammates would assist him if his life depended on it.

he's been horrible at pg, ive been singing the same tune since we drafted him. if evans had a choice between scoring 25 points but only having 5 assists or scoring 15 and having 10 assist, while casspi and martin each scored 20ppg. which one would he pick? thats easy, he'd pick to score 25 ppg. like thats not the business... chris paul doesnt want to score that much, nash is most effective when he doesnt have to score... tyreke just wants to score, if we could use profanity i would call him a h** because he scores so much. its like snoop dogg says, it aint no fun if the homie cant have none.
 
lol where have you been at? jennings has been terrible for like 2.5 months.. Hes shooting 38 %... and only averagin 1.5 more asts per game then reke. Rekes shootin 46 % so if Jennings ever stood a chance he would have to stop being the chucker that he is and get that BRUTAL percentage up.

Curry is clearly the second best rookie and will give Reke a run for ROY.


thats why i said that curry waited too long to catch fire... i assumed that he would be firing straight out the gate playing for the warriors. but he didnt... he so shouldve been scoring 20ppg from day one.
 
I was going to create a long detailed post refuting your points one by one, but people have done that before with you and you just ignore the facts and continuously put down certain Kings players regardless of how they feel. It's just a waste of time to deal with you.

Go to your account -> settings and options -> edit ignore list and edit as you see fit.

I highly recommend it in certain cases :cool:
 
im not saying that, im just saying that he'll win it and he isnt even playing well... he's scoring but that was never a problem for us. martin injury was a gift from god for all of you evans supporters, it saved you from watching this all season long. if he were a pg he wouldnt have any problem playing with a sg.

what happened to griffin is messed up, i cant wait to see how he plays next year. rubio, i wont be seeing anytime soon in the nba; that doesnt bother me. but tyreke playing like crap does. so what if he scores 20 points, he couldnt pass the ball to a teammate to save his life. with the way he's passing i doubt his teammates would assist him if his life depended on it.

he's been horrible at pg, ive been singing the same tune since we drafted him. if evans had a choice between scoring 25 points but only having 5 assists or scoring 15 and having 10 assist, while casspi and martin each scored 20ppg. which one would he pick? thats easy, he'd pick to score 25 ppg. like thats not the business... chris paul doesnt want to score that much, nash is most effective when he doesnt have to score... tyreke just wants to score, if we could use profanity i would call him a h** because he scores so much. its like snoop dogg says, it aint no fun if the homie cant have none.
hatorade.jpg
here have another drink buddy!
 
this article is classic voison. the names featured are tyreke evans and kevin martin, but they might as well be chris webber and peja stojakovic. could she be any more telling in her preference of player types? she's got no subtlety whatsoever...

yes, let's blame the 20-year-old rookie of the year to-be for the 26-year-old established scoring guard's inability to put the ball in the basket. tyreke evans has been doing nearly EVERYTHING you could expect him to as a rookie thrust into a superstar's role on a losing team. his assist per possession ratio might be higher if his teammates could score off his kick-outs...

here's the story: tyreke drives to the basket. if he can get to the rim, he scores on most of those possessions. if he can't, he very dutifully kicks the ball out. but in the last ten games or so, not a single player on this young, versatile kings team can hit a shot. i'm positive that the coaching staff is telling tyreke to keep doing what he's doing, because, eventually, somebody is gonna start hitting buckets...

voison is right that the evans/martin backcourt won't work. but that's an observation that most kings fans have considered at some point or another this season. ya don't have to be a sports writer to determine that these two guards don't make for a very effective pairing. i'm of the opinion that it won't work in the long term, and that martin is the kings best and most movable trade-chip heading into the future, so i think its worth contemplating the potential in his trade value. but its certainly no fault of evans that martin isn't hitting shots he should be hitting. evans doesn't have the passing ability or court vision of steve nash, but considering that evans is a ROOKIE scoring guard, i think his passing game is right where it needs to be...
 
I was going to create a long detailed post refuting your points one by one, but people have done that before with you and you just ignore the facts and continuously put down certain Kings players regardless of how they feel. It's just a waste of time to deal with you.


you thought about it then you realized that evans wasnt a pg... period. all of those people who tried to defend him look borderline foolish... the hopeless romantic types are okay, 6th, bajaden, vf21 and so on... they have been there and done that, they know that this is a long, sometimes painful process. its one of those things that come with age i suppose. but the hardcore "tyreke is a pg" posters, no... no... what can you possibly say? "5 assists is really that bad". tyreke cant run an nba offense, not yet(if we're lucky) or not full time at least. he cant play without the ball so playing at sg wont help either.

the way its working out he'll set us back 3 years because we will need a completely new team just to play his style of basketball...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top