Voisin: Martin / Evans not working

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Haven't read it yet but here's my take. It's not so much Evans/Martin not working as it is simply Martin not working.
 
I thought this part of the article concerning Reke was fairly accurate:

"As he quietly and candidly reiterates when asked to describe his mentality, he is a scorer masquerading as a point guard. What he really wants to do is drive the ball to the rim at every possible opportunity. Accordingly, and along with the startling defensive slippage, we have seen too much of this lately: Evans on a two-on-one break, refusing to pass ahead to an open teammate. Isolation plays that leave four teammates standing around, staring at space. The bigs receiving the ball late, out of rhythm, or not at all. The shooters launching hasty, off-balance shots because of increasingly infrequent opportunities in a dribble-penetration, guard-dominant offense. The wings wasting their breath and their legs in transition."
 
BLNINJA #81 said:
I thought this part of the article concerning Reke was fairly accurate:

"As he quietly and candidly reiterates when asked to describe his mentality, he is a scorer masquerading as a point guard. What he really wants to do is drive the ball to the rim at every possible opportunity. Accordingly, and along with the startling defensive slippage, we have seen too much of this lately: Evans on a two-on-one break, refusing to pass ahead to an open teammate. Isolation plays that leave four teammates standing around, staring at space. The bigs receiving the ball late, out of rhythm, or not at all. The shooters launching hasty, off-balance shots because of increasingly infrequent opportunities in a dribble-penetration, guard-dominant offense. The wings wasting their breath and their legs in transition."
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thats funny, it sucks for the fans and the team as a whole... but its funny. it happened a few times in last nights game, evans grabbed the ball and ran down the court full speed, kevin and casspi were running with him; side by side and evans still drove into 2 warriors. on a 3 on 2 fastbreak....
 
Interestingly, on the Rise Guys this AM, Mark Kreidler didn't think Martin's usual game was a poor fit. He said he thought Martin was a poor emotional fit on the current team. Interesting thought.
 
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kennadog said:
Interestingly, on the Rise Guys this AM, Mark Kreidler dodn't think Martin's usual game was a poor fit. He said he thought Martin was a poor emotional fit on the current team. Interesting thought.
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I agree with that. He is too fragile, even emotionally.
 
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yep, he's coming back from an injury to his shooting hand to what in essence is a new and different team, and yet he's clearly having trouble because he's soft.

that must be it.
 
Kingsguy881 said:
I agree with that. He is too fragile, even emotionally.
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I think he thought it was a matter of lack of energy. Although when you mention fragile emotions, JT certainly needs to toughen up in that department. I think most his struggles recently are emotional.

The other day, Grant was saying JT's dad is a college referee (I didn't know that) and he's told JT constantly to stop whining to the refs. Grant said the team was concerned about the rep he was getting with officials.
 
TheFifthMookie said:
yep, he's coming back from an injury to his shooting hand to what in essence is a new and different team, and yet he's clearly having trouble because he's soft.

that must be it.
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Well, I'm one who wants to give it some time, but the concern is that Kevin doesn't seem to be improving at all after 7 games. I would like to see some signs that he's beginning to get his game back. I still agree that its too early, but Martin's body language and expressions are so bad right now (as is JT's by the way.)

Actually, last night I noticed the lack of high fives and energy that was there earlier in the season.
 
kennadog said:
Yes, and I hate seeing that. But he's only 20 years old. Besides, for most of the recent losing streak, when he did pass it, guys were bricking shots right and left. Even Beno had a couple of off games shooting. We actually had zillion missed shots (it felt like it anyway;)) from near point blank range. Evans being a little selfish was hardly the only problem.

Interestingly, on the Rise Guys this AM, Mark Kreidler didn't think Martin's usual game was a poor fit. He said he thought Martin was a poor emotional fit on the current team. Interesting thought.
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its hard, because he cant play without the ball so you cant put a pg next to him to direct traffic for the rest of the team. when chris paul passes the ball, players miss shots... no one shoots 100% but with evans he's already made up his mind, he's going to score. he missed like his last 10 shots last night and didnt have a single fg in the 4th...
 
Voisin said:
Let's be clear here. Martin is an established, efficient NBA scorer who is extremely well-compensated, and for that reason alone, his demeanor these past two weeks is immensely disappointing. Fortunately for the Kings – and his career – he seemed more like his former self Tuesday night against the depleted Golden State Warriors. He ran the floor, cut fast and hard, played with energy, played with passion, did most things well except convert his rusty outside shot. He scored only five points on 1-of-9 shooting.

But let's be clear about this, too. There are plenty of other factors/players contributing to the current Kings' woes, a potentially explosive, protracted dilemma that rests uncomfortably on Paul Westphal's lap. Indeed. Martin, 26, is far from the only unhappy King, and to suggest that his presence is the source of the skid is rooted in fiction, not fact. The chemistry was just as lousy while the sixth-year veteran was on the bench in street clothes, nursing his fractured left wrist.
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And...

And since Petrie is a patient man, telling me again Tuesday that the Martin/Evans pairing will be evaluated extensively before trade scenarios are even discussed, Westphal probably has the remainder of the season to tinker with various combinations.
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No, Evans and Martin hasn't worked yet. BUT we all know Petrie is, in fact, a patient man.

Will it work out? I don't know and I'll be honest in saying I have reservations. But I'm still not ready to count Martin out of the equation quite yet.
 
Kingsguy881 said:
I agree with that. He is too fragile, even emotionally.
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I know I'll be thoroughly attacked for my next comments, but enough is enough.

Kevin Martin isn't emotionally fragile and he isn't without passion for the game of basketball. I've been lucky enough to get to know some of his family and this is not a guy who gives up easily. If he were, he wouldn't be in the NBA and he wouldn't be one of the league's leading scorers. He has had to fight and prove himself every single step of the way and these constant attacks on his character are beyond pathetic.

Martin is a good guy. He may not be openly demonstrative about his feelings, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have them. If you haven't been lucky enough to actually watch a Kings game in person, you cannot begin to appreciate how Kevin has been these past months, always on the sidelines to cheer his teammates as they come off the court, talking with the other players and the coaches and making game pointers, etc.

It's become stylish around here to bash Martin at every turn, blaming him for everything from the current team woes to the extinction of the dinosaurs. Well, I have one thing to say...

Shame on you. Kevin Martin (and any other Kings player) deserves better treatment than what some of you have given him.

And now, please feel free to fire away.
 
kennadog said:
I think he thought it was a matter of lack of energy. Although when you mention fragile emotions, JT certainly needs to toughen up in that department. I think most his struggles recently are emotional.

The other day, Grant was saying JT's dad is a college referee (I didn't know that) and he's told JT constantly to stop whining to the refs. Grant said the team was concerned about the rep he was getting with officials.
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That is interesting. He has stopped whining and throwing fits lately, now he just needs to get his confidence back because it is completely shot. I have faith in him and the team as a whole. They are young and inexperienced with no quality vets to learn from so they have to learn their own way. That is not easy in the NBA, but they will get it.
 
VF21 said:
I know I'll be thoroughly attacked for my next comments, but enough is enough.

Kevin Martin isn't emotionally fragile and he isn't without passion for the game of basketball. I've been lucky enough to get to know some of his family and this is not a guy who gives up easily. If he were, he wouldn't be in the NBA and he wouldn't be one of the league's leading scorers. He has had to fight and prove himself every single step of the way and these constant attacks on his character are beyond pathetic.

Martin is a good guy. He may not be openly demonstrative about his feelings, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have them. If you haven't been lucky enough to actually watch a Kings game in person, you cannot begin to appreciate how Kevin has been these past months, always on the sidelines to cheer his teammates as they come off the court, talking with the other players and the coaches and making game pointers, etc.

It's become stylish around here to bash Martin at every turn, blaming him for everything from the current team woes to the extinction of the dinosaurs. Well, I have one thing to say...

Shame on you. Kevin Martin (and any other Kings player) deserves better treatment than what some of you have given him.

And now, please feel free to fire away.
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Bravo! Good for you. I have always been a Martin fan, and even with my comment I still am.

What I meant about his emotional fragility is that when he is in the presence of an alpha male he tends to shrivel up. That is not a knock on his character or his work ethic or any of the other things you mentioned. He just gets scared. Case in point, whenever he has to go up against Kobe. He lets Kobe push him around and doesn't push back.

I remember when Andrew Bynum was a rookie, it was a game against Miami. Shaq was in the middle for Miami at the time. Bynum went head to head with Shaq on the offensive end and dunked on Shaq. The next time down the court, the Heat went to Shaq who not only dunked on Bynum, but knocked him on his butt with a shiver (no foul call on Shaq of course). The next time down the court, Bynum threw an elbow into Shaq and the two squared off, being seperated by teammates and being T'd up by the officials. But the point being Bynum was a rookie and he wasn't backing down from anybody, even the biggest, baddest mofo in the league.

I would pay good money to see Kevin Martin knock Kobe on his *** and catch a technical for it. Just make a statement that he IS tough and will NOT be pushed around and he wants to grab the game by the cajones and take over. But Martin is not tough enough for that. So I called him fragile emotionally. Because this slump is in his head, it's not in his body. How many points did he score the game AFTER he broke his arm? How much did that broken bone really affect his game? Not much. It is all mental, and in order for him to break out of it he is going to have to get his mind right. We will see how tough he is emotionally in the next few weeks.
 
VF21, I agree with your last post. Also, I think Voisin was pretty much on - especially in her Evans comments. We have, as usual, too much 'he's great' therefore he's above critical analysis. Also, for the time being anyway, I think we've over hyped JT and Omri. JT needs to go to ballet juggling school or some combination thereof. His hands and mind can't seem to keep up with his body. Omri needs to slow down, relax and smile some more. We don't have a starting small forward therefore a changed lineup every day or week or whatever. Not much a coach can do. With all that I enjoy seeing them play and look forward to seeing the improvement I expect.
 
VF21 said:
And...



No, Evans and Martin hasn't worked yet. BUT we all know Petrie is, in fact, a patient man.

Will it work out? I don't know and I'll be honest in saying I have reservations. But I'm still not ready to count Martin out of the equation quite yet.
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You know my biggest question here is it worked the one game on the road trip when martin had 23, and I think Tyreke had 22 or 24.

Is it really that Martin is JUST having problem with his shots? He was 1 of 9 last night. Let's say he hits 6 of 9 and 2 are 3 pointers. That's 14 points. Let's say he gets fouled twice cutting and gets the and 1. that's 16 points.

Granted Martin needs to get more opportunities. But I think he'll get more opportunities when whatever is up with his shot is fixed. The one night he shot well he had 23, so the team seems like it's going to go to who is scoring. if you're not your attempts will become lessened. That's pretty normal.

So, I really am not sure myself if Martin and Evans can work. I really think it can, and i really hope it does. I think it's a pretty big set back if it doesn't.
 
Ok, so if Evans can't play with Martin than who can he play with?

Martin is still not right physically. I was watching him last night and he was huffing and puffing after 4-5 mins. When he missed his first 3 badly early in the game I could see he still was not right.

This is from Thorpes chat today

Josh (Memphis)




There's a lot of talk around here about how the Grizz should have taken Tyreke instead of Thabeet at number 2. Am I the only one who thinks Curry would have actually been a better fit? A lethal shooter who doesn't have to have the ball in his hands is exactly what they need.
David Thorpe (12:03 PM)





You are not alone in that Josh. A league executive recently told me that he thinks Evans is the next Iverson. Not in a good way. At this point, I disagree.
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Kinda says the same thing as Voisin regarding Evans play.
 
"Fortunately for the Kings – and his career – he seemed more like his former self Tuesday night against the depleted Golden State Warriors. He ran the floor, cut fast and hard, played with energy, played with passion, did most things well except convert his rusty outside shot. He scored only five points on 1-of-9 shooting. "

Voisin either did not watch the same game I did, or she is spinnig this article to fit her agenda. Kevins missed shots don't bother me that much. It's tough to watch, I've never seen him struggle on offense this much, but thats not the main problem here.

Last night I saw a complete lack of effort by Kevin on defense. It stuck out like a sore thumb. In the 2nd, Kevin, Beno, Noc, May, and Omri were on the floor together. The other four guys were playing their hearts out, going after every loose ball, and Kevin clearly wasn't displaying half the heart the others were. In the 3rd, and early 4th, he couldn't guard Watson to save his life. For Voisin to imply that Kevin "cut fast and hard, played with energy, and played with passion," is absolutely rediculous, and does not come off as objective at all. This type of crap coming from Voisin doesn't surprise me anymore.

Kevin is an extremely talented basketball player. I have always been a fan of his, and still am. But I have to call it like I see it when I say he doesn't fit anymore. I wanted to give Kevin and Tyreke a chance to play together, and thought it would work out. I'm disappointed is hasn't. It could get better, we will have to wait and see. One thing is certain, Kevin is a far superior scorer than he is showing he is right now. He will get both his touch, and his rythm back. Thats not my concern. My concern is that with his shot not falling, he still has not picked up the intensity level on defense. He sat courtside the entire time he was out, and saw the new identity this team took on. It was all about hustle. Playing hard. Out working the other team. Kevin knows this. Everyone knows this. Yet, Kevin still has not shown the desire to fit in with the rest of the guys. I'm not talking about facial expressions, or being vocal. I'm talking about not being near his guy when being run through screens. Not hustling out and contesting 3 pt shots like he should. Not helping on defense. I saw a few loose balls he could have gotten last night, but didn't even attempt to go after.

I hate the fact that this is what I'm seeing. This isn't what I expected to see. Kevins in a slump offensively, but he will get himself out of it. He has far too much talent not to. But whether or not the shots are falling, he has to hustle, he has to play defense. So far, Kevin hasn't been willing to do that. He looks disinterested. Whether or not Donte and Omri are hitting shots, they go 110%. They give it there all, and are able to contribute in other ways. kevin almost seems to have given up now that his shots aren't falling.

I thought I would see a different KMart upon his return. Whether or not he's hitting his shots, I thought I would see a player attacking the boards, hustling for loose balls, talking on defense, and attempting to be more physical of defense. I thought he would really get after it, and do his best to put forth the same effort as the other guys. He hasn't.
 
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Section 101 said:
Ok, so if Evans can't play with Martin than who can he play with?

Martin is still not right physically. I was watching him last night and he was huffing and puffing after 4-5 mins. When he missed his first 3 badly early in the game I could see he still was not right.

This is from Thorpes chat today



Kinda says the same thing as Voisin regarding Evans play.
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Except its waaaayyy to early to decide Tyreke is another AI. Good grief he's 20! He's barely out of his teens. Give him some time to mature. Don't know about anyone else, but I was an "adult" at that age, but no where near as mature as eventually become. (OK...some might argue I'm still not mature. :p)

Kobe was selfish too, when young. Think the Lakers ever seriously thought they should get rid of him?

I like Martin and I appreciate everything he's done for the team and the community. I think some people expected and still expect too much of him. He's a very good and valuable player. That's not enough for some folks. Will he fit in with Evans? Too early to say that, I think. We may not really know for sure before the trade deadline either.

Doesn't mean a trade of some sort won't be done, but it better be one that makes a significant difference for the future of the Kings and not just for this year, when we won't be going to the playoffs anyway. Which I have not, at anytime this season, considered realistic.
 
I'm not sure why people making things so complicated. This KMart/Evans thing has nothing to do with Evans. His game hasn't changed, meaning KMart hasn't affected his game. If anything he also allow KMart not to be the focus point. KMart is getting look and get a decent amount of shot.

But...

KMart is not hitting his shot, good look shot too. If he's not making his shot, he's not going to make it work with anyone. Not even with CP3.

Last 3 games, 3/23...that isn't going to cut it even if Evans playing like Steve Nash.

I agreed with some folks pointing out he's effort on defense isn't as strong as we would like him to be.
 
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lol @ Evans being Iverson not in a good way. His passing is getting better every game. People are blind if they cant see that. I agree he does get tunnel vision on fast breaks but its because no one can stop him and he knows it.
He will learn when to pass to the wing and when to take it all the way.., but for now i wouldnt be kicking passes to our shooters either if I was Evans cuz everytime he does they miss the damn shot.. And I saw Martin pass up about 4 or 5 good shots last night sum that were set up by Reke. I dunno whats up with Kmart but he looks like hes about to cry out there. Suck it up and play some basketball, if you get traded you get traded. Its just a game.
 
Section 101 said:
Ok, so if Evans can't play with Martin than who can he play with?

Martin is still not right physically. I was watching him last night and he was huffing and puffing after 4-5 mins. When he missed his first 3 badly early in the game I could see he still was not right.

This is from Thorpes chat today



Kinda says the same thing as Voisin regarding Evans play.
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I disagree with the next Iverson. Earlier in the season when they were playing well as a team, there was a lot of sharing of the ball. Somehow the teamwork has broken down, whether it has to do with the "rookie wall", or something else, I don't know.
 
Early on when we were winning Evans wasnt playing as selfish...I think he's just frustrated and wants to do it all himself. It doesnt help when he has team mates shooting 1-9 or whatever (and thats not a shot at Kev, seems like everyone on the Kings is shooting like **** lately).


Not something we all want to see him make a habit of, but I doubt he's going to be the next AI. For one, he's about six inches taller.



Edit: Doc beat me to it.
 
OptimusRhyme said:
lol @ Evans being Iverson not in a good way. His passing is getting better every game. People are blind if they cant see that. I agree he does get tunnel vision on fast breaks but its because no one can stop him and he knows it.
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From todays rookie report

But there is a downside to his scoring success. Evans ranks 29th of 30 starting point guards in assist ratio (the percentage of a player's possessions that end in an assist), ahead of only Rodney Stuckey, likewise a score-first guard. Evans' rate of 18.1 percent is below that of guys like Tony Allen, Josh Smith and Larry Hughes. Sacramento's offense, once a top-10-to-15 unit, is down to No. 20, and the Kings have won just twice since Christmas.
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