Voisin: Arena financing talks revived

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#61
I don't really see what the Maloofs millions really have to do with it. If they were worth $1.50 or had Gates' money, it doesn't change the fact that they want to keep the Kings here and I want them here so I can see them in person and have the civic pride in a local team. If the Kings leave we still need a new arena. If they stay, they will probably pay for about 1/5 to 1/4 of it.

I say raise the tax (I don't mind paying $0.25 for every $100 I spend to go to an arena and other public benefits), get the Maloofs to kick in whatever you can get them to agree to, and let's do it.

Better that than paying $0.50 per $100 after the Kings leave and the cost of building an arena has gone up another $100 million in construction costs and we have to foot the bill without Maloof money to help.

It's so flipping obvious, why is it a bone of contention?
 
#62
It's so flipping obvious, why is it a bone of contention?
Lack of Public Education = Public Ignorance.

It's the Maloofs' and local governments' collective faults on how they have approached this thing to date, not the folks that cannot comprehend the community's/economy's needs and benefits from reading the tea leaves of helter-skelter interviews and press releases.

Still enough time to fix it, though, if the ballot measure gets crafted over the weekend...
 
#63
I don't think it was ever the Maloofs job to sell this to the public. I think that would have only thrown fuel to the fire of the naysayers..... millionaires "blackmailing cities" and "begging for handouts." kind of talk.

They let the City know how much they wanted to stay, but they could not do it alone. It was the city's and/or county's job to carry this forward.

Its unfortunate that the former city manager was apparently a MAJOR stumbling block to even having rational discussions/negotiations about how it maybe could get done. Hopefully, its not too late.
 
#64
I have stayed out and let Wert take the shots. Time to jump in for a few comments.

BTW, I don't see a need to label any opinion on either side ignorant, I thought that wasn't allowed here? Just because someone doesn't agree with your view doesn't mean their opinion is wrong.

Last night they were talking about the Arena on 1140 and I would say 90% of the Callers (rough guess) said they wouldn't support any general sales tax. These are Kings Fans, calling into the Kings Station, that is not a good thing.

Just gonna comment a little, as I have already stated my opinion and am basically repeating myself like everyone else.

The Malloofs and CO have 2.5 months after/if they get a measure on the ballot to
A) Convince the Voters we need a new arena
B) Convince the Voters to pay 70-75% with public funds
C) Show the voters how this will lead to further growth and put additional money in our city.

Not only convince, but change the majority opinion. One problem is they are asking for a tax increase on people that don't use the arena. Right or wrong as far as what money gets back to the city, this is how these people/business see it. I think this issue crosses all political lines. I think Left/Right/Middle have people that will support and oppose this. Has more to do about this measure putting a dose in to satisfy all sides.

The easiest way to get this passed:
- .25 general sales tax... X% of profits from Arco go to city services. Can be a very very small percentage but then it gives voters a reason to say hey, its going to do good for the city. Over a 10 year time frame this adds up and won't hurt the bottom line

- Impose some sort of ticket / venue tax. So the people that use Arco are the one's that help pay for Arco, use this tax to take down the total amount of the general sales tax. I am not sure if this will need a vote, could be labeled a ticket charge. Also there is no way this will cover even 1/4 of the cost but itcould help ease the pressure on the general tax or be used for cost overruns. (I am especially concerned about clean-up for the rail yards and cost of)

- Maloofs at a min contribute 100mill, The more they contribute the easier this will pass. Which as Kenna put a great investment in our city and they really have to drive this point.

Wert, this is directed towards your comment and I do hear it a lot. Regardless of how anyone feels about how rich the Maloofs are. I don't think we can expect them to pay 500 mil when almost every owner has a state of the art arena handed to them. To me this is more just the reality of sports franchises today. Owners do not pay for their venues. The owners will get the profits from all events and have control over all events (yes thats gonna sting). It's the sports world we live in. If the Maloofs paid lets say 300mil or whatever, every owner in the league would have their heads on a plater for setting this precedence.

News today is the negotiations are going good. I cannot vote on the tax since I live in Sutter County so it doesn't matter my personal opinion. At this point I just want to see the Kings stay, put up a ballot measure and have it pass. So on yet another issue I fall right in the middle, because I fall all over the place on this one. Pretty strong against a general sales tax but want the kings to stay so probably would support it if this was the last stand for them.

Oh I will not be a Kings fan if they leave the area.
 
#65
As far as what I have heard so far, the quarter cent per dollar sales tax is not only to pay for an arena. It is meant to pay for other public purposes. That is partly how they are getting the county and the cities other than Sacramento in the county to buy into this idea in the first place. They will get money for things in their cities, too.

Actually there is a ticket surcharge right now that is going toward paying off the old debt. Of course, they may roll the old debt into the new financing structure so it can be reamortized out. I assume that is part of what is being negotiated.
 
#66
Do you all really think that the people of Sacramento would vote yes on the new arena?

Why have the Kings leave town just because we don't want to pay a couple extra dollars here or there.

Will someone let me in on the pros and cons? If the Kings leave I would literally go crazy.

The site should get some people (I would volunteer) and go out and stand next to grocery stores, and ask people to vote for the Arena. I am no writer (big shock eh? lol) so we would need someone to write some kind of a report or something on the pros of haing the Kings stay, and having the new arena and hand them out and talk about it to people come voting time.

I also would like to tack on my initiative to get rid of pennies, and round UP to the nearest nickel on every purchase in our county. I have come up with this years ago, and now banks are using it to help people save money (rounding up to the nearest dollar). I bet on every transaction if there was a round up tax, than give that money to the homeless cause than we wouldnt have any homeless in Sacramento! :D
 
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Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#67
As far as what I have heard so far, the quarter cent per dollar sales tax is not only to pay for an arena. It is meant to pay for other public purposes.
That is correct - the tax $$$ will be going to lots of items, not just an arena.

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/arena/story/14246618p-15064448c.html


"I heard there's the potential for the county to put on the ballot a sales tax, for 10 years, I think," Tretheway said. "It would do two things: It would fund an arena and entertainment center and also contain money that would go back to the local jurisdictions."

Such a general sales tax would require only a majority vote to pass, rather than the two-thirds vote required for taxes passed for a specific purpose. The county conceivably could designate the money for an arena - albeit unofficially - by winning voter approval of a companion advisory measure supporting its construction.
 
#68
BTW, I don't see a need to label any opinion on either side ignorant, I thought that wasn't allowed here? Just because someone doesn't agree with your view doesn't mean their opinion is wrong.
Sorry, but the term "ignorant" is NOT a derogatory label. Unfortunately, some folks, perhaps you, believe it is a synonym for "stupid" which it ain't. It refers to someone's lack of information or education on a subject. And, as I said, that's the fault of those that lead this charge to get a new arena approved. Ignorance also does not equate with being right or wrong. There IS no right or wrong here, merely folks from all walks expressing opinions about what is best for them and the community....their own perceptions of right and wrong.

I happen to believe that the majority of the Sacramento public has formed an opinion about this whole new arena situation WITHOUT adequate education and the complete, accurate picture about its true needs, true community benefits, and simply about what it will BE. That's ignorance brought on by those in charge.

True, maybe those in charge never worked up enough details to feed us adequately and got caught up bickering about something for which each had totally different concepts of time, place, fianancing, etc. Nevertheless, the vision, the why, the benefits (regardless of price and who pays), the reality of dire need as opposed to something that would be nice to do, the risk to the community if not done (again regardless of price), the risk to the economy if not done, and the future image of the city (and resulting impacts) if not done -- all these things could have already been flushed out for the public had our leaders had their collective acts together.

Last night they were talking about the Arena on 1140 and I would say 90% of the Callers (rough guess) said they wouldn't support any general sales tax. These are Kings Fans, calling into the Kings Station, that is not a good thing.
If what is being bandied about is true about a 1/4% sales tax increase, have any of those opposed evaluated their personal cost if such a thing kicked in? Did they stop and think how much they would pay at 8.00% in the County as opposed to 7.75%? I doubt it seriously. They think "new" tax and think enormous sums of money flying from their pockets. Stop and think about what your annual salary is, what % of that goes to TAXABLE goods and services purchased, then divide that by 100 and then again by 4 and you get your ANNUAL additional outlay.

If you spend $20,000 a year on taxable goods and services, then your outlay is $50 per annum. If it's $40,000 per year, then it's $100. etc etc etc. If it's more than that, then you're VERY well off.

Yes, indeed, this will also place some eventual pressure on new home prices, rental prices, and even insurance costs, things that do not have a sales tax attached to them per se, but so be it. There are tradeoffs of community and personal benefits and financial worth increases to be considered that will need to be brought forward.

Maybe the County gazillionaires are pissed, but I'm not.

The Maloofs and CO have 2.5 months after/if they get a measure on the ballot to
A) Convince the Voters we need a new arena
B) Convince the Voters to pay 70-75% with public funds
C) Show the voters how this will lead to further growth and put additional money in our city.
A) is the greatest need and what I have been harping about for a long, long time.

B) is not etched in any granite from any player in the negotiations, as far as I have read. It remains to be seen and is conjecture at this point as to what each side will agree to try to burden.

C) is the easiest one to accomplish.

Not only convince, but change the majority opinion. One problem is they are asking for a tax increase on people that don't use the arena. Right or wrong as far as what money gets back to the city, this is how these people/business see it.
Wrong IMHO. I live in SAC County (barely) but I favor both a County and regional support structure (spanning outside the County but much less from outside the County but nearby). It doesn't matter if a Rocklin resident doesn't use the new arena. Where does she/he make a living? Why does Rocklin exist?

What % of the Yuba City population makes their living in Sacramento County?

Davis? West SAC? El Dorado Hills? Auburn?

Naturally, these cities will not likely accept any financial responsibility for community enhancements in downtown SAC, even though the economic vitality of SAC represents those communities' lifebloods and they would drastically downturn if something happened to Sacramento.

So I say, simple ... special tax them over and above County residents for whatever they get from or use in SAC in terms of big ticket items: wages, concerts, Kings games, RiverCats games, purchasing cars, renting cars, acquiring building supplies, and maybe even buying major electronics. Then they can't complain, because they only get taxed on what they get and take from the community.

Bet they'd LOVE that, eh???

Too bad it's too difficult to special tax them on dining, small retail stores, and every small ticket item. I'd do it.

How's that for radical thought??? :D

I gotta feeling that someone out there in KF Land might respond to this.
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#69
I have stayed out and let Wert take the shots. Time to jump in for a few comments.

BTW, I don't see a need to label any opinion on either side ignorant, I thought that wasn't allowed here? Just because someone doesn't agree with your view doesn't mean their opinion is wrong.
Saying someone is ignorant means they're not cognizant of the facts. It isn't necessarily derogatory.

Last night they were talking about the Arena on 1140 and I would say 90% of the Callers (rough guess) said they wouldn't support any general sales tax. These are Kings Fans, calling into the Kings Station, that is not a good thing.
There are call screeners that pick the calls they want to put on the air. There is no way to accurately gauge public sentiment by calls to KHTK. A lot of very good, loyal fans would NEVER call KHTK because they have no respect for Grant or Mike, etc.

Just gonna comment a little, as I have already stated my opinion and am basically repeating myself like everyone else.

The Malloofs and CO have 2.5 months after/if they get a measure on the ballot to
A) Convince the Voters we need a new arena
B) Convince the Voters to pay 70-75% with public funds
C) Show the voters how this will lead to further growth and put additional money in our city.

Not only convince, but change the majority opinion. One problem is they are asking for a tax increase on people that don't use the arena. Right or wrong as far as what money gets back to the city, this is how these people/business see it. I think this issue crosses all political lines. I think Left/Right/Middle have people that will support and oppose this. Has more to do about this measure putting a dose in to satisfy all sides.

The easiest way to get this passed:
- .25 general sales tax... X% of profits from Arco go to city services. Can be a very very small percentage but then it gives voters a reason to say hey, its going to do good for the city. Over a 10 year time frame this adds up and won't hurt the bottom line

- Impose some sort of ticket / venue tax. So the people that use Arco are the one's that help pay for Arco, use this tax to take down the total amount of the general sales tax. I am not sure if this will need a vote, could be labeled a ticket charge. Also there is no way this will cover even 1/4 of the cost but itcould help ease the pressure on the general tax or be used for cost overruns. (I am especially concerned about clean-up for the rail yards and cost of)

- Maloofs at a min contribute 100mill, The more they contribute the easier this will pass. Which as Kenna put a great investment in our city and they really have to drive this point.

Wert, this is directed towards your comment and I do hear it a lot. Regardless of how anyone feels about how rich the Maloofs are. I don't think we can expect them to pay 500 mil when almost every owner has a state of the art arena handed to them. To me this is more just the reality of sports franchises today. Owners do not pay for their venues. The owners will get the profits from all events and have control over all events (yes thats gonna sting). It's the sports world we live in. If the Maloofs paid lets say 300mil or whatever, every owner in the league would have their heads on a plater for setting this precedence.

News today is the negotiations are going good. I cannot vote on the tax since I live in Sutter County so it doesn't matter my personal opinion. At this point I just want to see the Kings stay, put up a ballot measure and have it pass. So on yet another issue I fall right in the middle, because I fall all over the place on this one. Pretty strong against a general sales tax but want the kings to stay so probably would support it if this was the last stand for them.
I agree with most/all of this.

Oh I will not be a Kings fan if they leave the area.
I would most likely stay a fan, but it wouldn't be the same. They were OURS, and if they cease to be ours, I'd probably still have a warm spot in my heart for them, but it wouldn't be the same...
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#70
Do you all really think that the people of Sacramento would vote yes on the new arena?

Why have the Kings leave town just because we don't want to pay a couple extra dollars here or there.

Will someone let me in on the pros and cons? If the Kings leave I would literally go crazy.

The site should get some people (I would volunteer) and go out and stand next to grocery stores, and ask people to vote for the Arena. I am no writer (big shock eh? lol) so we would need someone to write some kind of a report or something on the pros of haing the Kings stay, and having the new arena and hand them out and talk about it to people come voting time.

I also would like to tack on my initiative to get rid of pennies, and round UP to the nearest nickel on every purchase in our county. I have come up with this years ago, and now banks are using it to help people save money (rounding up to the nearest dollar). I bet on every transaction if there was a round up tax, than give that money to the homeless cause than we wouldnt have any homeless in Sacramento! :D
Once there is a ballot measure to even talk about, SOK will be able to do a lot more than we can right now. For the most part, we're dead in the water until TPTB come up with something we can actually discuss, explain and support.

That's the education part of this whole thing that a lot of us have been complaining about all along. The Sacramento City Council should have started doing this a long time ago, just like they would have for any other civic improvement. And a new arena IS a textbook definition of civic improvement, regardless of who uses it.

If it ever gets to being an actual issue that people will be voting on, then don't be surprised if you actually get contacted to do that grocery store detail...

Until then, however, we're stuck. We cannot arrange financing, and we cannot get the two sides to come up with a viable proposal. That is something only they can do.

:)
 
#71
Just on channel 40:
Mark Demsky went to Arden Mall to poll people on the arena deal and SUPRISE, most of the people were against it for a variety of reasons. Dempsky asked one guy if he cared if the kings left and he said no. What about concerts? Who cares. Im glad my husband didn't see that piece.
 
#73
Saying someone is ignorant means they're not cognizant of the facts. It isn't necessarily derogatory.
I know :) I thought the way it was worded was derogatory, but it's easy to read a lot that isn't intended in a message board post.

The radio show I was talking about was CD, they had Joe Dicka?son? filling in for him. Did a pretty good job and thought his stance on the issues were pretty good.

I would like to see that fox40 piece if anyone has it or a link to it. Koz was talking about a station last night that was putting out a negative story. He wouldn't say who but I am thinking that may be the one. Not that I want to see a negative story but I think this is just the begining of whats to come. Uphill battle for sure. Well the City Council is the battle we have to get past first.
 
#74
I know :) I thought the way it was worded was derogatory, but it's easy to read a lot that isn't intended in a message board post.
The way it's generally used in this particular forum, yeah, I'd say a reasonable person could definitely take it as derogatory.

There are other ways to say the same thing without using loaded language.
 
#75
The way it's generally used in this particular forum, yeah, I'd say a reasonable person could definitely take it as derogatory.

There are other ways to say the same thing without using loaded language.
Well, that's not reasonable.

It was not derogatory in my post. I can't speak for "the way it's generally used in this forum" since I am not influenced by how other people post.

My position was adequately explained. No loaded language.
 
#76
Well, that's not reasonable.

It was not derogatory in my post. I can't speak for "the way it's generally used in this forum" since I am not influenced by how other people post.
You wrongly assume I was speaking about you.

They way it's been used by others could easily be taken as derogatory by a "reasonable" person.

I stand by my opinion that it tends to be a fairly loaded term (especially on forums where one can't judge the tone of a post very well) and could easily be expressed another way.
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#77
Reminder: This is about the arena, not about whether or not someone takes a particular term as "derogatory." Let's stay on topic. This whole subject is way too important to be sidetracked over stuff like this...
 
#78
1kingzfan: Excellent and well thought out post. The only comment I have is about whose responsibility it is to educate the voters. There has been tons of information available and more is likely to be available. However, anyone who plans to vote has the responsibility to educate themselves on the issue.

Benjamin Franklin started public libraries and in America public education was made available to all, because it was believed that for democracy to work, you needed to have an educated public with access to information and learning. Not educated on what to vote, but on how to read and gather information to make up your own mind based on that information.

I know that's idealistic, but it is how I feel. Realistically, it is apparent that the information that is available about the arena has not reached a lot of people. Tons of letters in the Bee have people repeating things that are simply not true or show a clear misunderstanding of some of the issues (like who "owns" Arco).

As to the specific plan that may be presented, none of us know the facts yet.
 
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