Voisin: After probe, we all wonder
- Thread starter VF21
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Rasheed Wallace has claimed a few times that the series would be over or they would win etc etc as a piston and has always been right. Did he know something more than the rest of us regarding the outcome of a game before it happened.
I watched game 6 and I agree that it was a game where the calls went in the lakers favour most of the game and the fourth quarter there was a concerted effort to start the game in the lakers favour and they put the lakers in FT shooting mode within seconds into the quarter. A standout sequence was vlade getting his fourth foul, pollard comes in, leans on Shaq and gets his foul and then pushes him a bit off the block and then the next foul. Three fouls on the kings centers in one posession i think. So yeah I watched that game.
But what is interesting is that the kings fans are so posessed about that one game, lakers fans are possessed about one game in game 5 and both sides are not willing to look at the other games to see how the series went. Lakers fans are not that very vocal about game 5 since they won the series and didnt matter what happened in game 5 but if they had lost i am sure we will be talking more about game 5 than game 6 now.
As I pointed out in the stats, Game 5 Shaq takes 18 shot attempts and had only one FT attempt, for a guy who plays in the post dont you think its abnormal.
You could take a kings fan point of view and say that he was not aggressive enough or give whatever reason you can but I am trying to see that objectively. I would expect atleast 5 or 6 FT attempts for a post player on a 18 FG attempt game.
Since there are many basketball experts here, the clip also being on you tube, as much as that shot by bibby was great in game 5, was that a moving screen set by webber. Did the ball go off webbers knees before that shot opportunity arose.
I watched game 6 and I agree that it was a game where the calls went in the lakers favour most of the game and the fourth quarter there was a concerted effort to start the game in the lakers favour and they put the lakers in FT shooting mode within seconds into the quarter. A standout sequence was vlade getting his fourth foul, pollard comes in, leans on Shaq and gets his foul and then pushes him a bit off the block and then the next foul. Three fouls on the kings centers in one posession i think. So yeah I watched that game.
But what is interesting is that the kings fans are so posessed about that one game, lakers fans are possessed about one game in game 5 and both sides are not willing to look at the other games to see how the series went. Lakers fans are not that very vocal about game 5 since they won the series and didnt matter what happened in game 5 but if they had lost i am sure we will be talking more about game 5 than game 6 now.
As I pointed out in the stats, Game 5 Shaq takes 18 shot attempts and had only one FT attempt, for a guy who plays in the post dont you think its abnormal.
You could take a kings fan point of view and say that he was not aggressive enough or give whatever reason you can but I am trying to see that objectively. I would expect atleast 5 or 6 FT attempts for a post player on a 18 FG attempt game.
Since there are many basketball experts here, the clip also being on you tube, as much as that shot by bibby was great in game 5, was that a moving screen set by webber. Did the ball go off webbers knees before that shot opportunity arose.
Did Samakee Walker hit a three while everyone else except the refs was at the half time break ?
You can say whatever You want but there is a reason that NBA started using insant replay (Also B.D.).
Anyways - if idiots make a right call - Horry's three still isn't enough and Kings win game 4 and there is no robbery in game 6 because there would have not been game 6. Looks like Lakers have the best refs that money can buy.
You can say whatever You want but there is a reason that NBA started using insant replay (Also B.D.).
Anyways - if idiots make a right call - Horry's three still isn't enough and Kings win game 4 and there is no robbery in game 6 because there would have not been game 6. Looks like Lakers have the best refs that money can buy.
I am with you.....move on and never, ever think about it again. When you catch yourself thinking about it yell "STOP"......in your head - not aloud. These memories will cause nothing but pain. There is no point to it.
Also, the second you think we have it bad just think about the poor souls in Buffalo....both the Bills and Sabres.
Also, the second you think we have it bad just think about the poor souls in Buffalo....both the Bills and Sabres.
Other fun Tom Donaghy facts...
1) He was one of the referees at the game where Ron Artest lost it:
http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba-blog/t...purs-phoenix-suns-playoff-series-ar45013.html
2) At a game earlier this year, instead of making a three-second call on Andris Biedrins, he actually moved Biedrins out of the lane. Game went into OT, and the Warriors won by 2. The spread was 1.5 (this link also refers heavily to the 2002 Kings-Lakers game 6):
http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/kawa...-b-a-d-but-heres-how-it-could-get-much-worse/
I'm in the camp that the Kings got robbed in that game 6, and that there are more refs to be implicated here. I seriously doubt Tim Donaghy goes down alone. Donaghy even had a role in the Suns-Spurs series in this year's playoffs, where, in retrospect, the refs obviously made a bad call with their ejections.
Folks, this is no joke... The wrong team won in the 2002 WCF, and the wrong team won this year's championship, which means the credibility is all in question now. When I was watching the Tour de France on Wednesday and saw the way Michael Rasmussen finished, my thought was, "Wow, he's cheating." Luckily, his team fired him on the spot. I get the feeling now that David Stern waited way too long to do something here, and now the entire league has lost credibility. It's pretty sad.
How long has this been going on? When did they know about it? What do they plan to do about it?
I wish there was a controversy here, that it was my opinion against others, like it is on the arena issue, but unfortunately, it's not. There is near unanimity out there on this issue, that the league has lost credibility.
Shoot, I've been a 49er fan for decades, and even I used to question some of the calls they got. Is this problem pervaisive in ALL sports??
1) He was one of the referees at the game where Ron Artest lost it:
http://www.hoopsvibe.com/nba-blog/t...purs-phoenix-suns-playoff-series-ar45013.html
2) At a game earlier this year, instead of making a three-second call on Andris Biedrins, he actually moved Biedrins out of the lane. Game went into OT, and the Warriors won by 2. The spread was 1.5 (this link also refers heavily to the 2002 Kings-Lakers game 6):
http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/kawa...-b-a-d-but-heres-how-it-could-get-much-worse/
I'm in the camp that the Kings got robbed in that game 6, and that there are more refs to be implicated here. I seriously doubt Tim Donaghy goes down alone. Donaghy even had a role in the Suns-Spurs series in this year's playoffs, where, in retrospect, the refs obviously made a bad call with their ejections.
Folks, this is no joke... The wrong team won in the 2002 WCF, and the wrong team won this year's championship, which means the credibility is all in question now. When I was watching the Tour de France on Wednesday and saw the way Michael Rasmussen finished, my thought was, "Wow, he's cheating." Luckily, his team fired him on the spot. I get the feeling now that David Stern waited way too long to do something here, and now the entire league has lost credibility. It's pretty sad.
How long has this been going on? When did they know about it? What do they plan to do about it?
I wish there was a controversy here, that it was my opinion against others, like it is on the arena issue, but unfortunately, it's not. There is near unanimity out there on this issue, that the league has lost credibility.
Shoot, I've been a 49er fan for decades, and even I used to question some of the calls they got. Is this problem pervaisive in ALL sports??
Did you forget the mystery "Holding" call on 4th and goal that stole SB XVIII from the Niners and gave it to the Redskins in the 83 NFC Championship Game? How about the TWO holding calls against them during the game winning drive in SBXXIII?
I'll agree, they got some bad calls that helped them, (Rice's fumble against the Packers comes to mind) but they also plenty go the other way. Is it still a "No Call" when the holder gets nailed with a snowball during a field goal attempt? That cost them a game in Denver, remember?
I've always believed that some players and referees bet the spread and try to manipulate it with mistakes or penalty calls. The infuriating thing as a KINGS fan is the NBA is the worst officiated game in the world. In 04-05 we got shafted twice in a row at home by a goaltending "no call" and then a goaltending call against us after the ball hit the backboard. Goaltending must be the "tuck" rule of the NBA, the Ref's don't seem to know the rule, or only use it to make spread "Corrections".
I'll agree, they got some bad calls that helped them, (Rice's fumble against the Packers comes to mind) but they also plenty go the other way. Is it still a "No Call" when the holder gets nailed with a snowball during a field goal attempt? That cost them a game in Denver, remember?
I've always believed that some players and referees bet the spread and try to manipulate it with mistakes or penalty calls. The infuriating thing as a KINGS fan is the NBA is the worst officiated game in the world. In 04-05 we got shafted twice in a row at home by a goaltending "no call" and then a goaltending call against us after the ball hit the backboard. Goaltending must be the "tuck" rule of the NBA, the Ref's don't seem to know the rule, or only use it to make spread "Corrections".
Did you forget the mystery "Holding" call on 4th and goal that stole SB XVIII from the Niners and gave it to the Redskins in the 83 NFC Championship Game? How about the TWO holding calls against them during the game winning drive in SBXXIII?
I'll agree, they got some bad calls that helped them, (Rice's fumble against the Packers comes to mind) but they also plenty go the other way. Is it still a "No Call" when the holder gets nailed with a snowball during a field goal attempt? That cost them a game in Denver, remember?
I've always believed that some players and referees bet the spread and try to manipulate it with mistakes or penalty calls. The infuriating thing as a KINGS fan is the NBA is the worst officiated game in the world. In 04-05 we got shafted twice in a row at home by a goaltending "no call" and then a goaltending call against us after the ball hit the backboard. Goaltending must be the "tuck" rule of the NBA, the Ref's don't seem to know the rule, or only use it to make spread "Corrections".
I'll agree, they got some bad calls that helped them, (Rice's fumble against the Packers comes to mind) but they also plenty go the other way. Is it still a "No Call" when the holder gets nailed with a snowball during a field goal attempt? That cost them a game in Denver, remember?
I've always believed that some players and referees bet the spread and try to manipulate it with mistakes or penalty calls. The infuriating thing as a KINGS fan is the NBA is the worst officiated game in the world. In 04-05 we got shafted twice in a row at home by a goaltending "no call" and then a goaltending call against us after the ball hit the backboard. Goaltending must be the "tuck" rule of the NBA, the Ref's don't seem to know the rule, or only use it to make spread "Corrections".
Same way with the ejections the Suns received. Hopefully, the league now understands better that rule needs to be changed, and they'll do it.
Has anyone looked at this youtube?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u4tFg6Sl1s
Watch in the key, how Biedrins is in for a good 5 seconds. Rather than blowing the whistle, Donaghy actually nudges Biedrins. It's really blatant.
27 free throws in 1 quarter... 27 free throws in one quarter... That's a 108 free throw a game pace
Scott 2 feet away from Shaq jumping out of the way with his hands in the air while being fouled out of the game... It's an image still seared in my mind.
Jackson, Kobe, Shaq and eventually even Stern with that smug look on their faces... what do you mean robbed?? Your all just a bunch of cry-babies... small town-mentality and all that.
Oh really, Mr. Stern?? How does your NBA referee evaluation process look now? How does the excuse hold water any more? It doesn't.
I will never get over.... what even LA media, and many of the rest of the country regard as maybe the "Worst Officiated Game in NBA History" hell who am I kidding there is no maybe about it.
In a closeout game? Are you serious? How anyone could compare that with any other game in that series in level of importance is beyond me.
Our team could not recover for the next game and hell, how can I blame them? It's been 5 years and I'm still not over it.
Scott 2 feet away from Shaq jumping out of the way with his hands in the air while being fouled out of the game... It's an image still seared in my mind.
Jackson, Kobe, Shaq and eventually even Stern with that smug look on their faces... what do you mean robbed?? Your all just a bunch of cry-babies... small town-mentality and all that.
Oh really, Mr. Stern?? How does your NBA referee evaluation process look now? How does the excuse hold water any more? It doesn't.
I will never get over.... what even LA media, and many of the rest of the country regard as maybe the "Worst Officiated Game in NBA History" hell who am I kidding there is no maybe about it.
In a closeout game? Are you serious? How anyone could compare that with any other game in that series in level of importance is beyond me.
Our team could not recover for the next game and hell, how can I blame them? It's been 5 years and I'm still not over it.
Wow you call that bull whatever, ok
I explained in my posts on this thread regarding game 6, I explained the 3 fouls on the centers in one posession which later on lead to them fouling out and webber checking shaq anyways. I have always maintained on this board that game 6 was totally in the lakers favour.
For that i dont see any response and that doesnt hurt your eyes, but when I talk about game 5, Shaq taking only one FT attempt, shaq fouling out, ball going off webbers knees for the last posession, possible moving screen by webber to clear derek fisher - then I become the laker fan who is only trying to point out problems in the kings win.
People talk about replays to verify samaki walkers three, shouldnt there be a replay rule to assess atleast posessions at end of games
Ok got your take on this as well
I explained in my posts on this thread regarding game 6, I explained the 3 fouls on the centers in one posession which later on lead to them fouling out and webber checking shaq anyways. I have always maintained on this board that game 6 was totally in the lakers favour.
For that i dont see any response and that doesnt hurt your eyes, but when I talk about game 5, Shaq taking only one FT attempt, shaq fouling out, ball going off webbers knees for the last posession, possible moving screen by webber to clear derek fisher - then I become the laker fan who is only trying to point out problems in the kings win.
People talk about replays to verify samaki walkers three, shouldnt there be a replay rule to assess atleast posessions at end of games
Ok got your take on this as well
This proves Fisher flopped: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b-8sS1GplM
Just read this article...very interesting to see someone take our side in this...I have fellow Kings fans that tell me I really need to stop holding a grudge because of Kobe's elbow to Bibby's nose that was called a flagrant. It's nice to know that someone else in the world feels our pain(sort of)after we had our NBA Title snatched out of our hands with ONE call. Can you imagine what would have happened if we had won that game? Can you? Stern did, and he didnt like what he was imagining for some reason, and Game 6 will forever be remembered by Kings fans as probably the saddest feeling next to Ricky Berry's suicide(R.I.P.).
Yes, Fisher flopped big time instead of fighting through the screen or going over it.
But was that a moving screen, hand off and roll towards the basket you will knock the defender every time unless the defender is going over the screen. But the rules are that you cannot hand off and roll at the same time, the pick has to be stationary.
Thats two calls in a row, one where the ball should have been lakers since it went off webber and followed by a non call on a moving screen. Who knows what would have happened with few seconds to go and lakers having the lead and the posession. This was the same game where Shaq took only one FT all game long and fouled out.
But was that a moving screen, hand off and roll towards the basket you will knock the defender every time unless the defender is going over the screen. But the rules are that you cannot hand off and roll at the same time, the pick has to be stationary.
Thats two calls in a row, one where the ball should have been lakers since it went off webber and followed by a non call on a moving screen. Who knows what would have happened with few seconds to go and lakers having the lead and the posession. This was the same game where Shaq took only one FT all game long and fouled out.
I would agree, it wasn't one call in that game, sending the Lakers to the line 17 or 18 times in the last 6 minutes was what did it.
If I had to pick ONE play, it would be the 3-pointer that occurred during halftime in game 4. Without the provably wrong call there, Horry's lucky three at the buzzer would have left LA losing by 2, and there never would have been a Game 6.
If I had to pick ONE play, it would be the 3-pointer that occurred during halftime in game 4. Without the provably wrong call there, Horry's lucky three at the buzzer would have left LA losing by 2, and there never would have been a Game 6.