Your top 3 coaches? Who's the third? And BTW it's MESSINA.
Vlade
- Thread starter Glenn
- Start date
Your top 3 coaches? Who's the third? And BTW it's MESSINA.
There's a King of the Hill episode where Bobby gets a job at the race track working for Jimmy Witchard, pictured here.
At one point Jimmy tells Bobby to go mop out the urinals. Except he doesn't say urinals. He mispronounces it as unirals (yoo-na-ralls) which I thought was funny at the time. So started calling them unirals. To the point where now, years and years later I have to stop and think about what the correct spelling and pronunciation are.
I mention this because you've typed Messani so many times now that I really have to stop and remember that it's actually Messina.
You're killin' me Smalls.
IfAt1st
Starter
I find it somewhat ironic that the Kings fanbase believes that Rondo can't play defense anymore.............. just like the Mavericks fanbase thought Rondo couldn;t play at all anymore (nor shoot, nor drive, or pass).
Yet, he came here and proved that he had plenty of game left - he proved he was "playing down" in Dallas (presumably because he didn't want to be on Carlisle's team).
Of all fans, I would think that Kings fans would recognize the possibility that Rondo was deliberately not playing defense to prove a point this season.
What point was that?
That "defense wins in the NBA".
Hey, that phrase sounds familiar - didn;t Cousins and Gay repeatedly use that as code words in post-game interviews? I think they did....
Maybe the team having a coach (Karl) forced on them that they didn;t want, and that completely ignored defense (or actually dismantled what defense the team retained from Malone and installed the worst defense in the NBA this year, and possibly many years) made them want to rub his "Hall of Fame" nose in the fact that he was out of touch.
So if this "conspiracy theory" makes sense (which looks like a pretty clear read of events and personalities to me), the only thing missing is:
Did Rondo deliberately play lackadaisical defense just to ensure Karl was not retained as their coach?
Did he allow himself to be labeled and maligned so badly, even in a contract year, that even Kings fans (who just saw him do it even more exaggeratedly in Dallas) even believe that he can;t play defense anymore?
Well, if it was anyone in the NBA but Rondo, I'd think it was far-fetched.
But since it's Rondo we're talking about, I'd say it's a 75-25 % chance that he was deliberately playing defense badly, since I saw him play defense well in the more important games and possessions.
Yet, he came here and proved that he had plenty of game left - he proved he was "playing down" in Dallas (presumably because he didn't want to be on Carlisle's team).
Of all fans, I would think that Kings fans would recognize the possibility that Rondo was deliberately not playing defense to prove a point this season.
What point was that?
That "defense wins in the NBA".
Hey, that phrase sounds familiar - didn;t Cousins and Gay repeatedly use that as code words in post-game interviews? I think they did....
Maybe the team having a coach (Karl) forced on them that they didn;t want, and that completely ignored defense (or actually dismantled what defense the team retained from Malone and installed the worst defense in the NBA this year, and possibly many years) made them want to rub his "Hall of Fame" nose in the fact that he was out of touch.
So if this "conspiracy theory" makes sense (which looks like a pretty clear read of events and personalities to me), the only thing missing is:
Did Rondo deliberately play lackadaisical defense just to ensure Karl was not retained as their coach?
Did he allow himself to be labeled and maligned so badly, even in a contract year, that even Kings fans (who just saw him do it even more exaggeratedly in Dallas) even believe that he can;t play defense anymore?
Well, if it was anyone in the NBA but Rondo, I'd think it was far-fetched.
But since it's Rondo we're talking about, I'd say it's a 75-25 % chance that he was deliberately playing defense badly, since I saw him play defense well in the more important games and possessions.
Rondo hasn't played defense since he tore is ACL. Thinking a guy is simply going to turn the corner after taking 3+ years off is wishful thinking.
If you want to prove defense wins championships, play DEFENSE and prove it. It doesn't make sense to prove a point by doing the exact opposite. That attitude reeks of George Karl incompetence. The only point he made by not playing defense is that he is lazy on that side of the ball.
If he wanted Karl fired, why wouldn't he just play indifferently like he did in Dallas?
whozit
Starter
Not everything is conspiracy. Sometimes it's just human nature. If something is half-baked and doomed to fail, it could simply be hard to go full bore and give it your best. Think of the complaints when players on the offensive side stop cutting, moving and screening. Is it a coincidence that it often happens with players who never touch the ball. Human nature rather than a diabolical plot?
Maybe it's because I'm relatively cynical but I view things the other way around. From my perspective if that's the defense Rondo plays in a contract year then what kind of defense should be expected after he signs a fat new contract?
I think Rondo loves basketball but he's always struck me as a lot more cold and calculating than warm and willing to accept less money to play with guys he likes. He's said numerous times that he doesn't have many friends and that basketball is a business. When he made his comments about being able to play in the Triangle Offense I thought the primary goal there was to try and up his value in the open market. Rondo has also said that he thought this would be his final contract. I think he's going to go after every dollar he can get.
Sheeeee - it, you made that look easy. I used to be a math whiz kid but as I have aged, I seem to have lost it. My entire family is good at math, even my daughter. One thing, no two things, jump out at me and it is what my eye test thought they were seeing. Collison can shoot. Collison can shoot for those who didn't see it first time around. I am going to guess that he is one of the best shooters in the league like top 20 or so. Also though, discounting free throws, Rondo can shoot pretty good also. I found myself in some games yelling for him to shoot the rock. I think he didn't because he was playing for a last big contract and by leading the league in assists, he pretty much guaranteed a big one. In my view, he could have scored more, making him more dangerous, but his assists would have gone down costing him money.
My sum guess is that a Rondo not playing for a contract would have been more valuable to the team.
Now where in those mystical letters are numbers that reflect defense. I am not too old to learn - - - - I think.
Thanks, dude.
- Collison can definitely shoot. But interestingly enough he doesn't take a ton of threes, not even in George Karl's "threes or in the paint" approach. You can see this in the stats where it shows that only 28% of his shots were three pointers. Contrast that with Omri, who took more than 44% of his shots from behind the arc. Collison loves the pull up midrange jumper from 15-18ft.
- Rondo has ALWAYS passed up open shots for the chance at an assist. It's just part of his game.
- There's defensive rating numbers but I don't think they mean a ton. I like using NBA.com's defense dashboard a lot more.
And those stats match what my eyes told me. Rondo did decently out on the perimeter, especially when he could disrupt passing lanes for deflections and steals, but once his man got a step on him he generally gave up on the play, which is why the guys guarded shot a bit over 10% better than their average when they were 10 feet from the basket or closer. But of course, here' the thing - Collison wasn't any better. In fact, very close to the basket he was worse, which isn't unexpected given his lack of length and bulk. It's part of why I think if the Kings re-sign Rondo they need to trade Collison. Curry was actually the opposite. Despite hounding the ball more, he was worse against defending the three and better inside the arc.
To me, if Rondo is re-signed then Curry makes a nice backup and different look and then I'd look for a bigger, defensive minded third PG. Trading for a mid first rounder to draft Wade Baldwin would make a lot of sense in that scenario.
I couldn't possibly care less about the stats in this instance.
I know what I see with my own eyes when Rondo is on the court. He has the most incredible court vision I think I've seen since possibly John Stockton. And I think the Rondo-Cousins tandem can, with the right coach, be every bit as successful as Stockton-Malone...and more so.
Rondo has a lot to give and a lot to teach younger PGs, a lot of whom don't understand that it's not always about taking the shot.
Those are just a couple reasons why I value Rajon Rondo. He's also got the jewelry and having a veteran presence on your team who knows what it's like to win it all isn't a bad thing when that's the direction you're hoping and building to get to.
I understand people not liking his defense, but Mike Bibby wasn't a defensive juggernaut either. It was Doug Christie who helped cover up his shortcomings. That's what we truly need - another Doug Christie.
To be fair to the Mailman and Stock they made the playoffs EVERY season they played together. And Stockton was deadly on the pick and roll precisely because he was a great passer AND a great shooter. Per game Stockton averaged more assists (nearly 2 per game), more steals, fewer turnovers and shot 10% better from three. The only category that Rondo has over the Pasty Gangster is rebounds.
That's not a put down of Rondo. I just think people sometimes forget how good John Stockton really was. But the part that bothers me is that Rondo is bigger, stronger, quicker and longer than Stockton and yet Stockton was a fiesty and effective defender and Rondo looks apathetic.
Rajon Rondo is a free agent.
He was auditioning for 30 possible teams, not just the Kings who he may or may not want to re-sign with and who may or may not want to re-sign him. I think it's beyond far fetched that he'd purposely lower his own market value to rub it in the nose of the coach of the Kings, a team he may never play for again.
randymoss1881
Starter
My bad spell check all the time.
1. Blatt
2. Messina
3. McHale
We won't get Vogel and I want our next coach to be a defense minded and preach ball movement.
IfAt1st
Starter
Yeah, I agree it would be far-fetched, if we didn't just see him do that exact thing in Dallas, just last year....
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Everybody better hold their water on the Rajon Rondo issue for a couple of hours. I've been putting together a statistical thread, and the results pretty much floored even me, and I went into it with a suspicion. Suffice it to say things are not what they seem.
c-webb1s#1
Starter
The funny thing is... and by funny I mean frustrating...is that we saw more than a few times that he could play great defense, but only when he felt like it. Most of the time he ignored anyone that wasn't an all-star and would slack off way too much on them. He has to remember this is the NBA and at anytime any player can go off on you!
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Will this be as fun as Christmas?
