Vlade says DMC untradeable (on SiriusXmradio)

[jdbraver]

When cousins went down the season was over. Then when he was back near 100% collison went down and we had no legit PG or SG at that point. It's hard to win in the NBA without skill and depth. Dorsnt matter who coaches or tells them to play defense.

 

[Warhawk]

The start of the season was still too small a sample for me.

I think it is hilarious that the first time we post a winning record with a healthy Cousins beating up on the toughest schedule in the league, the automatic response is "too small a sample" instead of "why the **** didn't we keep rolling with that when we had it working?"

 

[Albatros]

You and I remember the start of the season very differently. Opponents were struggling against us. JT shut down (yes) a few elite PFs (some more than once). People oblivious to watching defense were wondering why so many teams were having "off-nights" shooting the ball.
It's because they had to work for their shots. Even though the shots were open, they weren't in rhythm. They weren't the right people at the right time.

That's what defense looks like. If you want to ignore the stats, fine, but defense isn't all about swatting a ball at the rim. They were making the other teams work. They got them tired.

I know very well what defense is about, just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm "oblivious" to defense and think it's all about "just swatting at the rim"

we had some good wins early in the season against good teams, Portland, LA, Phoenix and San Antonio, backed up with some pretty poor loses to the Warriors, Grizz (who can forget that one) the mavs, raptors. It wasn't all sunshine and lollypops I'm afraid, so for me and me alone looking back the sample just isn't big enough for me to say "oh yes we're right there."

 

[Albatros]

I think it is hilarious that the first time we post a winning record with a healthy Cousins beating up on the toughest schedule in the league, the automatic response is "too small a sample" instead of "why the **** didn't we keep rolling with that when we had it working?"

It's both, I wasn't for the firing of Malone and I'm entitled to want see a bit more before I got all excited. Not sure why it's hilarious but take ur kicks where you can get them.

 

[Spike]

I know very well what defense is about, just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm "oblivious" to defense and think it's all about "just swatting at the rim"

we had some good wins early in the season against good teams, Portland, LA, Phoenix and San Antonio, backed up with some pretty poor loses to the Warriors, Grizz (who can forget that one) the mavs, raptors. It wasn't all sunshine and lollypops I'm afraid, so for me and me alone looking back the sample just isn't big enough for me to say "oh yes we're right there."

That we went toe to toe with the Grizzlies isn't "pretty poor". We're a missed assignment and a questionable call at best from winning that game. As for the Warriors, I think the rest of the year (a larger sample size, if you will) bears out the fact that they're kinda good this year.

No, it wasn't all sunshine and puppy dogs, but it was gritty, and purposeful. More often than not, our bench pissed away big leads. Maybe Malone should have taken a page out of Thibs' playbook and ridden the starters into the ground, but the framework for success was, and still is, here.

 

[Spike]

I think it is hilarious that the first time we post a winning record with a healthy Cousins beating up on the toughest schedule in the league, the automatic response is "too small a sample" instead of "why the **** didn't we keep rolling with that when we had it working?"

I guess opposing coaches, and media outlets, pointing out the change in attitude in both Cousins and the team was also lost on many as well.

 

[Albatros]

That we went toe to toe with the Grizzlies isn't "pretty poor". We're a missed assignment and a questionable call at best from winning that game. As for the Warriors, I think the rest of the year (a larger sample size, if you will) bears out the fact that they're kinda good this year.

No, it wasn't all sunshine and puppy dogs, but it was gritty, and purposeful. More often than not, our bench pissed away big leads. Maybe Malone should have taken a page out of Thibs' playbook and ridden the starters into the ground, but the framework for success was, and still is, here.

Of course the warriors are good, but I'm being told we were competing on that level, and would have continued to do so. Thats what I'm taking issue with, hardly egregious.

and blowing a massive lead against the grizz was a pretty poor thing to do IMO but again I don't want get into a semantic argument.

The start said to me Malone could get us to that 34-38 win zone which would have been a superb leap. But where I disagree is to take the next leap was close too. This team is mentally weak and defensively naive.

 

[Albatros]

I guess opposing coaches, and media outlets, pointing out the change in attitude in both Cousins and the team was also lost on many as well.

Like who? Everyone was delighted with Cousins play and attitude throughout the whole season.

 

[Warhawk]

Of course the warriors are good, but I'm being told we were competing on that level, and would have continued to do so. Thats what I'm taking issue with, hardly egregious.

and blowing a massive lead against the grizz was a pretty poor thing to do IMO but again I don't want get into a semantic argument.

The start said to me Malone could get us to that 34-38 win zone which would have been a superb leap. But where I disagree is to take the next leap was close too. This team is mentally weak and defensively naive.

We were not going to compete for the title - I don't see anyone saying that at all, but we definitely were competing for a playoff spot. And given the past decade or so, would that be such a bad thing?

Did we blow some games? Sure. But we were winning more than we were dropping and had an identity that was getting us through with a lousy bench. We needed roster changes, not a coaching change.

 

[Warhawk]

Like who? Everyone was delighted with Cousins play and attitude throughout the whole season.

You missed the second part of his statement. Apparently PDA and Mullin didn't care for a winning team for the first time in about a decade and one that was playing their hearts out for Malone. Everyone else seemed to be behind what was going on.

 

[Warhawk]

It's both, I wasn't for the firing of Malone and I'm entitled to want see a bit more before I got all excited. Not sure why it's hilarious but take ur kicks where you can get them.

"a bit more"? A bit more than what? A coach having the team playing hard nosed defense and grinding out wins in the toughest schedule the league had at that time? I'm not saying it was all perfect or anything, but have we really forgotten how bad the last near-decade has been so we can just throw away a potential playoff season like we did? I don't see how anyone who is a Kings fan isn't still furious about the abomination the FO turned last season into.

Now, hopefully next year things turn around a bit. But the FO decisions made last year were absolutely inane and inexcusable. Just mind-boggling.

 

[Chubbs]

That we went toe to toe with the Grizzlies isn't "pretty poor". We're a missed assignment and a questionable call at best from winning that game. As for the Warriors, I think the rest of the year (a larger sample size, if you will) bears out the fact that they're kinda good this year.

No, it wasn't all sunshine and puppy dogs, but it was gritty, and purposeful. More often than not, our bench pissed away big leads. Maybe Malone should have taken a page out of Thibs' playbook and ridden the starters into the ground, but the framework for success was, and still is, here.

Funny you mention thibs cause the knock on Malone around here was his "rotations", which was code for "won't play every game like game 7", something thibs is about to be fired for, and arguably wore them down to the point they couldn't beat a Cleveland team ripe for the taking minus Love and with a gimpy Irving. Noah looks washed up and he's not even 30.

Everyone still seems to want Boogie to play more mins as well. His minutes are fine. Recalibrate expectations folks, we've entered a new smarter era where minutes are down for stars. It's the smart thing to do. Boogies foul problems are extending his career whether intentional or not. And that career will be here if the FO and owner pulls their heads out of their asses in time.

Albatross, boogie after the Malone firing was a different person. He wasn't consistent all season. Far from it. He was great early, then old habits emerged (as you would expect when your FO lights the whole thing on fire). His accumulation of technicals under Karl was alarming. His production was fine under Karl obviously, but his attitude and demeanor and leadership took a step back. Almost cost him an all nba selection actually (and DID cost him an all star selection, again, until the commish stepped in). That's not because "everyone was delighted with Cousins play and attitude throughout the season."

The team looked like a team precisely once in the past decade, and that was early this year under Malone. The lengths people are going to convince themselves and others that wasn't true is absurd. Losing to Memphis doesn't change that whatsoever. The point was they were competing, playing hard, making progress, rallying behind both the coach and the teams star. That didn't happen under Corbin, or Karl,

And then whoosh, it was over. Still waiting for PDA's head to roll. Vlade not insisting on firing him may eventually be his downfall.

 

[Spike]

Yeah, I'm not advocating for a Thibs style of rotation, but short of that method, what was Malone to do? Absolutely no one on the bench was producing.

 

[Albatros]

"a bit more"? A bit more than what? A coach having the team playing hard nosed defense and grinding out wins in the toughest schedule the league had at that time? I'm not saying it was all perfect or anything, but have we really forgotten how bad the last near-decade has been so we can just throw away a potential playoff season like we did? I don't see how anyone who is a Kings fan isn't still furious about the abomination the FO turned last season into.

Now, hopefully next year things turn around a bit. But the FO decisions made last year were absolutely inane and inexcusable. Just mind-boggling.

A bit more than I'd seen. Up to the all star break for example.

I'm still not happy about Malone firing either. But unfortunately we have to move on.

 

[Chubbs]

Yeah, I'm not advocating for a Thibs style of rotation, but short of that method, what was Malone to do? Absolutely no one on the bench was producing.

I didn't think you were.

But some here loudly didn't think Malone had a clue what to do with rotations. He was never playing Rudy and Boogie enough for people.

The problem, as you said, was no bench.

 

[KingsFanGER]

The problem, as you said, was no bench.

No bench or no offensive gameplan without the main weapons on the floor? That's the question I keep asking myself.
A great coach finds ways to get the most out of his role players. Did Malone accomplish this?

 

[Gilles]

I thought offensive gameplan was Sessions turning the ball over off his foot?

 

[KingsFanGER]

No I guess it was giving the Ball to Evans in the highpost

 

[Warhawk]

A bit more than I'd seen. Up to the all star break for example.

I'm still not happy about Malone firing either. But unfortunately we have to move on.

Like what? I asked earlier and this is the best non-answer I have seen in a while. What were you looking for? A team abysmally short on bench talent has the first All-Star they've had in a decade go down with an illness - the team was supposed to do exactly what with that besides lose??? What expectations did you have that the first part of the season didn't exceed before Boogie went down?

And "moving on" does not mean whitewashing events. Those who forget the past, and all that.

 

[Albatros]

Like what? I asked earlier and this is the best non-answer I have seen in a while. What were you looking for? A team abysmally short on bench talent has the first All-Star they've had in a decade go down with an illness - the team was supposed to do exactly what with that besides lose??? What expectations did you have that the first part of the season didn't exceed before Boogie went down?

And "moving on" does not mean whitewashing events. Those who forget the past, and all that.

a bit more of the team playing together, I don't see how this is such a weird concept to grasp, It's not any one thing or any two things, it's everything. consistency, growth, coaching, the offensive structure, will the defense hold up? Is Cuz's growth going to maintain? (it did we saw that!) hows Nik's growth curve, etc etc etc etc etc it's like in any sport if a team wins 5 in a row you don't just say "god damn we've done it! I don't need to see 10 games 5 is enough to know absolutely everything about this team"

and where did I suggest "whitewashing" events (how one can do that on an internet forum I have no idea, this isn't watergate.) I just don't see where going over and over and over the fact that firing Malone was a ridiculous decision is going to get us, Malone aint the coach any more, did it ruin a potentially good season, yes. The end. My issue is just how good that season was going to be, and the kind of heights Malone would have taken us too long term.

 

[IfAt1st]

You and I remember the start of the season very differently. Opponents were struggling against us. JT shut down (yes) a few elite PFs (some more than once). People oblivious to watching defense were wondering why so many teams were having "off-nights" shooting the ball.
It's because they had to work for their shots. Even though the shots were open, they weren't in rhythm. They weren't the right people at the right time.

That's what defense looks like. If you want to ignore the stats, fine, but defense isn't all about swatting a ball at the rim. They were making the other teams work. They got them tired.

Look, I'm 95% in agreement with this position and memory of the way things went down, but I draw the line at this exaggeration of the Kings 3-pt defensive prowess in the beginning of this season.

I was the one who asked back then what exactly it was the Kings were doing to cause the other teams to miss so many 3-ptrs. And other than "making them work for them", I didn't get any clear-cut, defensive system-based explanation (X's and O's). I don't care how "not in rhythm" the other teams were, they weren't going to continue missing so many wide-open 3 ptrs as the Kings gave early in the season (and middle of the season, and late in the season). The disparity in 3-pt % between Malone and Corbin would be hard to justify from an X's and O's standpoint.

That said, I still feel that early success was entirely sustainable, and anyone arguing or thinking it wasn't either has an agenda or is not accepting the reality of how close the Kings were to competitiveness (until the FO and Vivek chose to blow up the season in favor of style and in defense of egos).

The Kings 3-pt shooting was horrendous early on. That would have (and did!) get better as the season went on.
I believe PDA was only a few games away from having the entire NBA media swarm down on him for having assembled such an amazingly inadequate bench. The +/- between the starters and the bench was staggering, and would have become THE lead story very soon if "the surprising" Kings had stayed near the top of the Western Conference. A spotlight would have been shone on PDA's roster, and moves would have been made to strengthen the bench, and I believe vets would have been (voluntarily!) coming over to fill those holes.
Then Boogie got sick and it was deliberately blown up and the tankjob/mutiny was on.

 

[206Fan]

I know Sacramento is not an ideal big market, but we can get FAs. Just last year we got Collison, Casspi, Sessions, and Hollins. Those aren't terrible acquisitions.. The notion that FAs will avoid Sacramento is incorrect. We are a few pieces (player wise) away from being competitive.

This team needs perimeter defense, shooting/floor spacing, and rim protection. The passing and schemes will be worked on in the offseason.


Here's players who we'd have a shot at that meets the perimeter defense:
1) Middleton
2) Da Green
3) Affalo
4) Matthews
5) Shumpert
6) Henderson
7) McDaniels

Shooting:
1) Ellis
2) Lou Williams
3) Matthews
4) Da Green
5) G Green
6) Stuckey
7) Bargani PF
8) Dudley
9) Jerebko PF
10) Belineli

Shotblocking:
1) Ed Davis
2) Chandler
3) Wright
4) McGee

We have a real shot at all of these players. Some, we'll probably have to over pay. Not to mention that this FA class also has good options at backup PG.


Through free agency, we could possibly have a roster like this next year: (assuming we rid ourselves of Landry and chose to release Moreland and Stockton.

PG- Darren Collison/Ray McCallum/Ish Smith
SG- Ben McLemore/ Aaron Affalo/ Nik Stauskas
SF- Rudy Gay/ Omri Casspi
PF- Brandon Wright/Andrea Bargani
C- Demarcus Cousins/Jason Thompson


This is not considering the draft and possible trades, but does factor in if we kick Landry to the curb.

I don't see how we don't make the playoffs with a roster like this. Then you also add someone like WCS, Stanley Johnson, Hollis-Jefferson, and etc.

 

[IfAt1st]

My issue is just how good that season was going to be, and the kind of heights Malone would have taken us too long term.

Even with the absurdities of the season, the Kings ended up with 29 wins. And they quite clearly weren't trying to win the majority of the season.

I challenge anyone who thinks that with Malone, the Kings wouldn't have won 38+ last year.
If Cousins didn't get sick, I challenge anyone that thinks the Kings wouldn't have won 40-45.

What more "improvement" would people have wanted to see?! What kind of "heights" should Malone have provided before people realize this team has the potential to be a winner right now (with roster tweakings).
As long as it is built on what was proven successful (Cousins down low, high-effort defense, inside-out play), there's no reason to believe a revamped roster shouldn't be at or above .500 next year, based on what they did prove last year.

 

[Albatros]

all teams have the potential to be winners with the right roster tweakings.

just have to disagree on how much tweaking this team needed/needs. And like I said I wanted to see what Malone did with this team up to the all star break or thereabouts before we start talking about proof. He did have the team the season before as well, awful situation largely but defending the pick and roll, defending the three and mental collapses were a constant theme. That won't play long term.

anyway we'll never know...

 

[Spike]

No bench or no offensive gameplan without the main weapons on the floor? That's the question I keep asking myself.
A great coach finds ways to get the most out of his role players. Did Malone accomplish this?

Did Karl?

 

[bajaden]

I thought offensive gameplan was Sessions turning the ball over off his foot?

Absolutely not, it was Sessions driving toward the basket, leaping into the air and as he was doing a 360 degree spin in the air, throwing the ball somewhere in the general direction of the basket (sometimes) and hoping it went in. It was a rare talent to behold. Not a particularly effective one, but entertaining in a surrealistic sort of way.

 

[bajaden]

Did Karl?

Actually, the bench performed fairly well, and better by comparison under Karl. But really, its not a fair comparison. Karl came in with what, around 30 games left in the season. No training camp or time to implement his system. Didn't have his own coaching staff. Lets see what happens next season before throwing mud at Karl.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Did Karl?

Well, let's see. Despite the inevitable jeers from the peanut gallery, Derrick Williams played some of the best ball, if not the best, of his career under Karl. Omri was so good that Kings fans practically unanimously want him back. Miller had a few lousy games but was generally far better than we expected, especially considering his age, and blew Ramon Sessions' productivity clear out of the water. Nik improved his game at the end of the year, got some confidence, and started moving better on the court and taking it to the hole a bit, as well as beginning to hit his shots. And let's not forget that we had one bench player, Ray McCallum, ensconced in the starting rotation due to the Collison injury - and Ray played bigger and probably better minutes than he has ever played thus far.

So I'd say yes, Karl did do a pretty darn good job with his role players.

 

[Gilles]

Ray was just as bad playing with benchers as at the start of the season.
Williams looked better, only cause his shot started to fall. Malone was telling everyone, who was willing to listen, that D-Will was killing with his shooting in practice, but somehow that didn't translate on the court until late in the season.
Casspi was very good even without shooting early in the season.
And Malone didn't have Miller, he had Sessions to lead bench unit.
Stauskas got to work with the ball more under Karl, but Malone was trying to win, so giving big role to a timid rookie, who couldn't even turn his best skill into production, wasn't on the cards. And Stauskas barely played in games vs good teams Kings were actually trying to win under Karl as well.

 

[Bricklayer]

1) it was just a different set of roleplayers for Karl. On his watch JT, Landry and Reggie all dried up. And there's a reason for that.

2) Karl wanted to just run. Run. Pace etc. And that is notoriously precisely what you do to make guys with no talent look good. On the other hand Malone wanted to slow it down and slug it out, relatively speaking. And that plays into the hands of physical interior players like Landry et al.


Going forward there is no reason to expect Karl won't get a lot out of his roleplayers, because he always has. But he'll play favorites and other guys will be totally tossed aside. Again, because he always has. I'm much more concerned that he run a system built to take advantage of his biggest stars than I am about the disposable guys around them. You can always get new roleplayers if the current ones don't work. Its very tough to get new stars.