steelevt
All-Star
My bad. I took it from someone above posting it was his plan to tank for 7 years.
VLADE GONE
- Thread starter SLAB
- Start date
- Status
steelevt
All-Star
Why do you have to be a jerk and aggressive in all your responses? This is a place to discuss and debate with fellow fans. We can disagree without being an ass.
steelevt
All-Star
It would have been under 5 years of watching if we drafted Luka. But again I never argued who’s a better gm, just the strategy
whozit
Starter
Your sentiment towards Vivek I'm fully on board with. Maybe that's the way of business in the high tech world. I surely wouldn't do business with him in the investment world. Can't be trusted.
Dumars, will have to wait to see. There was a time that there was a debate on this forum who was better, Petrie or Dumars?
One could hope that the there was some truth to the rumors that the team was looking to add another decision maker. Maybe a more modern approach to the game.
steelevt
All-Star
I’d be shocked if anyone could have told me what his “role” as assistant gm was.
Livinthedream
All-Star
I’d be shocked if anyone could have told me what his “role” as assistant gm was.
To keep Vlade company. Cronyism didn't serve Vlade well.
If it came off jerk like my bad
We’ve been rebuilding for 16 years not drafting the highest potential guys. Than with boogie we tried signing bet free agents he’ll Vlade did that too bringing in Vets. All that does is take us out of the top 3 in drafting and leave us in no mans land. Hinkie plan would’ve been to play Bagley (well his 15games) and fox let them fly and if we suck again great we land Zion or RJ Berret last year
MizzouKing
Starter
Agree 100% with your thoughts on our players. To root for a team that never make the playoffs, it really helps to like them. We haven't always had that luxury, and I've grown accustomed to it.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Then again, first reports were that Vlade was safe for now. Don't be surprised if that "leak" was tied to an agent or two in common.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
OK, first coaching domino and better option has fallen. Gentry is out. If anyone in this organization has an ounce of sense he's at the top of the list currently. This is one of the coaches that runs a system close to what Vivek supposedly wants from his team. He took a Pels team from 27th in pace the year before he came in all the way up to 9th the next year and peaked it all the way to 1st, 3rd, and 2nd the last 3 years. Thank Luke for the work and start building your list Joe and Vivek.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
It is exactly true. Go ahead and try to prove me wrong.
Where‘s Hinkie’s track record of building a team like Jerry West or Pat Riley has? Hint: he doesn’t have one.
Furthermore, I think a lot of folks forget how angry Philly fans were when Hinkie started fielding non-competitive D-League teams. And not just for one season.
You wanna pay regular prices to see that crap? You wanna spend the next 3 years watching that crap?? I sure don’t.
And tanking guarantees NOTHING!
First, you have to be fortunate enough to actually win the lottery. Or likely place top 2 or 3.
Then you have to be fortunate enough to land that pick in a worthwhile draft, which doesn’t always happen.
Hinkie got lucky with a couple high picks. But it easily might have turned out as it did for our KINGS in 2009, when they finished with the very worst record yet only landed #4.
What then? Extend the tank yet another year? Keep extending the tank until you get that pick and player??
It’s a ridiculous gamble to take. And doesn’t at all show the genius of a Jerry West.
Even in Philly’s case where they did get fortunate in a couple drafts, they have yet to really see it bear fruit.
Good team in the East, sure. But they’ve not been close to seriously competing for a title. It doesn’t appear that’s gonna change anytime soon.
Vlade gets trashed on this site for all his gambles, because they didn’t work. And thus he’s labeled incompetent (I’m not suggesting he isn’t). But because a few of Hinkie’s gambles worked out, he’s considered competent.
However, had Vlade not overthought things and actually drafted #77 — he’d still have his job. And he’d suddenly be getting a ton of praise. Despite all the other things that didn’t work out. His team would likely be in the postseason and one of the NBA darlings being lauded all around the league. His team would probably be just as good as the team Hinkie built in Philly DESPITE not purposely fielding D-league line ups and tanking for years.
It all came down to ONE decision. And had he made that one decision correctly, things would look drastically different despite Vlade being no better or worse of a GM than he already was (which was a bad GM).
If Hinkie comes to SAC and pulls the same BS here and the draft position and talent in those drafts don’t line up well for them, then what? And that tactic is even less likely than before to workout since they’ve changed lottery odds.
Again, what has Hinkie ever done besides tank and bank on getting lucky a couple times? Where are the genius moves??
Trying to tell me that “it isn’t true” is an effing joke. I have two eyes bro.
WTF were you looking at? SMH.
Last edited:
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Oh BS.
First of all, I’m not wishing for Dumars as my clear cut top choice. However I prefer him to a couple of nutbags that have relied on gimmicks to build teams. Dumars at least built a championship team w/o the BS gimmicks.
Where are Hinkie’s and Morey’s titles???
You’re the one blowing hot air dude. And throwing your support behind 2 idiots that have won absolutely NOTHING! And aren’t going to win anything any time soon unless one gets lucky in this bubble season before Golden State and Brooklyn are back.
Yet you think I’m full of it preferring a GM that actually built a winner once. How rich.
Last edited:
Assuming Joe remains in the GM role, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Chauncy Billups get some attention. No head coaching experience but might be up and coming.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Again, it all comes down to style. If Dumars tries to re-create the success of his one successful moment in the same way, then he's going to fail just has bad and hard as Vlade doing the same thing by allowing coaches to force traditional motion offense on the team. That Pistons team was a total ANOMALY (much like that Kings millennium team) and I don't think the league was too happy. It's always Detroits fault too! haha. Same thing with the Bad Boys. In fact, the league has pretty much made it impossible to win that way now. That pistons team holding teams to 68 points or whatever will not be allowed any time soon. Especially now that betting on stats themselves has taken hold. The NBA game is as unpure as ever. As long as the money keeps flowing that direction it won't change.
Good points. My understanding is as long as Luke remains coach, he gets to pick his assistants. I have heard that Billups is interested in coaching but I don’t expect anyone to throw him into any role higher than assistant.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
Insert Sam Hinkie’s name in place of Dumars and the point is equally valid.
At least Dumars method resulted in a title, regardless whether it works again or not.
Although I suspect he’d be smart enough to improvise and do some things differently as someone like Jerry West has over the years.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Dumars gets to pick the assistants? Again, follow the same path and expect difference results? WTF! Vlade put Igor in the same and it made no difference. It created the same issues it always does when you put the safety net guy right behind the other with a knife in his hand. The funny thing is they even blew that one. Igor split before you got anything out of it, LOL.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The thing about Hinkie is he played his chair like it was freaking 2K. Acquiring and hording assets that either went unused or had a slim rate of success for that franchise in the end. Now, who knows what his end game was but like Ainge in his last go around, they started to fall in love with those assets rather than selling high at the right time. A ton of picks are only good as assets as they are in relation to when you use them. It's like Vlade hording 2nd rounders. Toilet paper in the end.
As for Morey. I'm not a fan of his all or nothing approach to interior-exterior basketball but at the very least, that's the way the game is played. Also happens to be the kind of team they have. If D'Antoni came along with him then guess what? I'd pretty much expect it's as likely as ever that the playoff drought ends next year. Fox's life becomes total pie, Buddy becomes an all star, Harrison is revealed for the glue value he brings, and Marvin starts to close the gap on 'ol Luka if he stays healthy. Is it championship ball? Eh, who knows. I will say you have a chance. Just like the shot you don't take has 0% chance of going in, looking on from outside the playoff bubble gives you 0% chance of winning a ring. Those are facts.
Guess Im confused as to who gets to pick assistants. I thought it was the head coach for some reason and figured no way Luke would want Billups with knife in hand.
Im assuming unless Luke pulls a rabbit out of his hat he wont make it through his contract so looking outside the HC recycling bin.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
This is where Vivek has to pull his head out of his backside and get down to the emotions of all this. This is walking a very thin line and Kings fans know it very well. Kings fans have a very unique experience in taking a 16 year long advanced class on how to completely bungle stuff that really isn't that bungled to begin with ways to get past it if you play it smart. At least in the 80's and mid-90's the new car smell hadn't totally worn off yet. This team is on the verge of collapse after this bubble showing. Again, this was almost like a whole new year for these guys. With all the hope and whatnot. Well, it was an abbreviated cluster F with all the trimmings of a year long cluster F with all the hard feelings and disappointment squashed into a tighter ball. Well, the tighter it goes the bigger it blows. And 99% of it was perpetrated by the coach. Luke Walton making it through 10 games of next season at this rate would be a GD miracle or complete delusional botching from the owner down. Possible Walton could turn it around, but if Vivek thinks that kind of thing is a good bet with the compiled evidence of basically 2 seasons then I have a river in Egypt I'd like to sell him.
Last edited:
jcassio
Starter
I’m clapping.
Hinkie and Morey aren’t similar at all. Hinkie’s plan is to get a franchise player and not be picking 9-12 every year. Or worse getting swept every year being the 7 or 8 seed while paying max salaries to players. How do people think we’re gonna get better once Fox gets his max we’ll have no money and a mediocre ceiling with Fox/Bagley. Nobody is trading stars to us when we can’t give anything up and no free agent is coming here. That’s what Hinkie knew and the league said **** he figured it out.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Morey has traditionally been a star big + star perimeter player guy though, all the way until Dwight Howard crumbled into sand as the league shifted around him. Hell, his first two coaches were Jeff van Gundy and Rick Adelman, who are far from awful defensive coaches and that Yao/T-Mac/RonRon team was well on the way to wining a potential ship as a traditional inside-out defensive grinder before Yao’s body simply gave out on him and T-Mac got old and bad. His moves over the next several years seem to all have been made under the assumption that Yao would eventually have to get healthy at some point as he acquired a bunch of complimentary pieces like Kevin Martin and Shane Battier and kept Rick around to coach the team. When Yao finally retired, his complimentary players were still around and his team probably Didn’t bottom out as quickly as he would have wanted it to in hindsight (which would maybe appeal to some of you anti-tankers out there) but he lucked out and took advantage of OKC’s need to clear up its hierarchy by throwing mediocre picks at them for James Harden, who blossomed into a superstar as the league shifted further and further out to the perimeter.
As Harden continued to develop, however, he recognized that in order to maximize Harden’s skill set, he had to find floor spacers and a coach who could actually use him to win games instead of Kevin McHale, who is Kevin McHale. This naturally came at the expense of defense and big ball.
This year, as Tilman assumed ownership of the Rockets and immediately refused to pay the luxury tax, Morey had to figure out how to maximize his roster’s chances at winning before their window collapsed/Tilman decided to do something really really stupid, which led to him trading his offensively challenged center on a massive contract for a versatile strong stretch-capable floor spacer that wouldn‘t get in Harden’s way on offense. The Westbrook trade was another move on that maximizing the short-term window path.
Hell, I’m not even a huge fan of the guy and think his bromance with Bill Simmons is weird but even I can recognize that he’s a good executive who also approaches basketball from an analytics moneyball mindset that would probably mesh better with Vivek than, say, Vlade’s approach of accidentally tweeting a picture of his draft board and predicted record without a thought.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
yeah, underlying issues with Hinkie’s skill as a talent evaluator aside, his entire modus operandi was to get bad quick enough to (a) get rid of assets of value before they got expensive to the point of having to take back long dead money in a deal while also being worth enough to a team to get them to part with multiple picks and (b) get to a high enough position in the draft that he would almost be guaranteed a shot at star talent. Both of those methods have been around in pro sports for decades, he just did it to such an extreme that the league got pissed off and got him fired. (Also I’m pretty sure the ownership group was getting tired of having to pay a bunch of awful dead money contracts for the priviledge of multiple draft picks in the mid-20s of the first round)
Last edited:
Section 101
All-Star
Interest part not mentioned is how will this effect the Chief Operating Officer? Vlade and Peja were allies, now new blood is interjected.
Ya Morey is even better than what he’s shown ownership in Houston is cheap.
It’s crazy that anyone could be against in this dumbass league. Any other league I’d be against it but the nba is too top heavy and now with the AAU friendship bs contending will be even tougher.
You have to get bad and get bad quick stop hovering and picking 9-12 it’s useless. Hinkie was attacked when he traded ROY MCW cause he wanted to capitalize before people realized what he was. Now look at MCW dudes a mediocre player, Hinkie won every trade he made hit on most draft picks
Interesting on the pace numbers, didn’t realize it. Put him on the list of guys to interview. Becky Hammon, Gentry, Atkinson.....interview them.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
And I think that, ignoring the obvious second overall pick elephant in the room, that is almost what doomed Vlade’s rebuild more than anything. Thanks to his own bad Sixers trade, Vlade didn’t have a pick in the 2019 draft, the team played like a team without anything to lose and looked further ahead in the process than they actually were, and we pulled out of the talent acquisition phase a year too early, leaving this entire roster capped out a level or two below where it probably should be before initiating win-now mode.
- Status
